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vets should not be elites. there is plenty of elite options and you can only take 3. vets seem like a stable troop choice. otherwise you leave 2 troop choices for the codex. penal and platoon. ones got random abilities and the other is strong in numbers. the vets add a stable, small force that can do some damage.

If one of your Heavy Weapon guys gets hit and killed you would remove the loader.

Think about it, if the guy firing the heavy weapon gets slotted the loader would just kick the body out of the way and start shooting it.

I'd do this with heavy weapons:

Squad of 3 teams (6 models) but you can add more up to a total of 6 teams.
You can not be instant killed (eternal warrior) - it makes sense, it is two guys.
You can have mixed weapons in one squad.
The loader gets a vox, if he is killed (you take a wound) you loose the benefits of the vox for that squad (fixing voxes in 6th Ed is a given).
You can take a commissar.
You can take a "fire team commander" who can issue 1 order per turn (only to the HWTs) with a choice of all the shooty ones and perhaps "incoming".

I also have some other thoughts that might be fun.
Veteran HWTs, BS4 and pick a doctrine (like the apoc tank crew special rules).
New weapons, Multi-melta, Multi-laser, Heavy stubber, Gatling lasgun (might be fun) S3 AP- Heavy 20.
Emplacement, may not move but get an extra point on their cover saves.

Storm tropers with hot shot las guns and pistols (means its AP 3)

Maybe free voxes and a storm trooper buff (better cc skill?) Other than that I like it the way it is

6 models should be able to fire from a chimera as there is 6 guns on the model.

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:SR= storm raven? now im confused. I think gw should make and elysion and DKOK codex. kinda like BA, GK, SM, BT...why not do it for ig too?

NO. ABSOLUTLY NOT.

Half of the armies that you can play are already imperium armies. Adding more would be shafting xenos armies AGAIN. You also make updating codexes an even longer and more arduous process, shoving dated xenos codexes further towards the back of the line. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, there is a DKOK dex in print, but it's not GW official, or something like that. Models exist for both regiments on forgeworld and similiar sites, even if they cost royalties. Just use those models, and use units that they would use.

/rant.

DakkaDakka wrote:

What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.

Blacksails wrote:

Joey wrote:

Armless Failure wrote:The ability to take an additional special weapon if you eschew the heavy weapon.

I've never given a BS3 model in my army list a special weapon...is it worth it?

I don't know if you're being serious.

Flamers are great on BS3 models. Bringing enough meltaguns will still mean some kind of damage will be inflicted.

Every special weapon slot in every guard list I've ever made has a special weapon, normally flamers and meltaguns (plasma and melta on vets).

Totally worth it.

Special weapons are great for guard. You can move and shoot any of them which is fantastic, and almost needed, since guard is too static as it is. Flamers are just amazing, especially on BS3. Grenade Launchers are fantastically flexible, either dropping small templates, or blowing up light vehicles. Plasma is fun, if risky, and being rapid fire, it shoots whenever your lasguns shoot, and just as much, only when it hits, marines die. And to round it out, melta gun, I needn't say much about that.

Maybe also add Stormbolter to the mix. SoB gets it as a special weapons choice, and it works out decent with them.

And vets should definitely get moved to troop, but maintain the requirement of 1 platoon. unless they want to make vets slightly better, and bring back an improved armored fist squad.

AtoMaki wrote:What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.

More doctrines for veterans too but I think they should be kept as troops.
Multi-meltas and assault cannons don't really have proper range to be used by heavy weapon squads in my opinnion.
Vendetta is great fun... not as an enemy though.
The order system is fine but voxes should be adjusted to make it work better.
Conscripts are a must in the dex! They fit the IG well. I personally do not use them but I know players who do and they do it well.
I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.

gaovinni wrote:Multi-meltas and assault cannons don't really have proper range to be used by heavy weapon squads in my opinnion.

Pffff... What range? I want firepower!

gaovinni wrote:Vendetta is great fun... not as an enemy though.

The Vendetta is an overpowered and underpriced abomination.

gaovinni wrote:The order system is fine but voxes should be adjusted to make it work better.

The Orders are totally anti-cool. So, basically, your guys are so feeble, stupid and weak that they are needed to be instructed to do their best. In a middle of a battle. Where people used to do their best anyways. Just... No ...

gaovinni wrote:Conscripts are a must in the dex! They fit the IG well. I personally do not use them but I know players who do and they do it well.

Conscripts should be the un-doctrined guardsmen.

gaovinni wrote:I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.

Just one image: a lowly guardsman shredding a Chaplain/Farseer/Chaos Lord/Draigo(doh!) asunder with his chain-bayonet in a spray of gore.

AtoMaki wrote:

gaovinni wrote:I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.

Just one image: a lowly guardsman shredding a Chaplain/Farseer/Chaos Lord/Draigo(doh!) asunder with his chain-bayonet in a spray of gore.

Well... no. Does not really appeal to me. Sorry.

AtoMaki wrote:What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.

The fluff doesn't need to get darker, you say yourself that the DKOK and Catachans are what you like, well - they already exist so build an army of them...
Doctrines, yup, I used to like them.
Multi-Meltas and assault cannons, yup, like that.
Orders could work if the vox system wasn't a shambles.
If you don't like the Vendetta then make it more points, no reason to get rid of it.
Conscripts are fun, if you don't like them - don't take them.
Veterans are not elite, they are veterans. You could have veteran stormtroopers, they'd be elite.
Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.
We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.
With our comrades by our side and our trusty lasguns we can overwhelm that stinking xeno by weight of numbers.


Oh, and it's eradicate.

AtoMaki wrote:
The Orders are totally anti-cool. So, basically, your guys are so feeble, stupid and weak that they are needed to be instructed to do their best. In a middle of a battle. Where people used to do their best anyways. Just... No ...

I don't think you understand what orders are or what they're trying to recreate. In war, you have officers. Officers lead troops, the basic rank and file. In war, officers issue orders as the battle ebbs and flows, calling out target priorities, issuing orders to advance or retreat, or to climb over the ledge and take the trench.

The orders system represents your senior and junior officers issuing such orders, like 'Bring it Down!', or 'For the honour of Cadia!'.

And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.

Orders are fine and a nice addition. Voxes are broken.

Che-Vito wrote:

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:6 models should be able to fire from a chimera as there is 6 guns on the model.

By this logic, a Rhino should be able to only carry 2 models...

how so? there are 2 top hatches on a rino one for weapon one for hk. and theres the window next to the drivers seat which is where the firing point is. (each firing point accounts for 2 models ability to shoot) where the ig codex says that specificaly 5 models can shoot not 5 firing points. what part of that logic counts for the transport capacity of anything?

#imconfused


Automatically Appended Next Post:

loota boy wrote:

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:SR= storm raven? now im confused. I think gw should make and elysion and DKOK codex. kinda like BA, GK, SM, BT...why not do it for ig too?

NO. ABSOLUTLY NOT.

Half of the armies that you can play are already imperium armies. Adding more would be shafting xenos armies AGAIN. You also make updating codexes an even longer and more arduous process, shoving dated xenos codexes further towards the back of the line. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, there is a DKOK dex in print, but it's not GW official, or something like that. Models exist for both regiments on forgeworld and similiar sites, even if they cost royalties. Just use those models, and use units that they would use.

/rant.

well...your point was sucseffuly made in at least 4 ways. i withdraw my previous statement

rob-or-ross wrote:
The fluff doesn't need to get darker, you say yourself that the DKOK and Catachans are what you like, well - they already exist so build an army of them...

You are right but:
- I'm thinking about a mix of DKOK and Catachans. I want Catachans with the Cult of Sacrifice and the general dark theme of the DKOK (effectively, hardcore guys who do awesomely cool stuff, but are stoic, merciless and depressive).
- For every Catachan and DKOK army, there is another boring one, what is either just simply boring (Cadians) or is a historical reference in speeesshhh (Valhallans, Mordians, Attillans and so on).

rob-or-ross wrote:Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.

And thats why they need over-the-top stuff! The Imperial Guard is an army of Batmen. And as Batman has Batstuff, the IG needs something nasty and unique for the guardsmen.

rob-or-ross wrote:We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.

Your lack of faith is disturbing comrade. Why couldn't we kill a farseer with a chain-bayonet? Who would stop us? We could simply (and literally) saw through them.

rob-or-ross wrote:With our comrades by our side and our trusty lasguns we can overwhelm that stinking xeno by weight of numbers.

Chain-bayonetting your enemies definitely sends a stronger message.

rob-or-ross wrote:Oh, and it's eradicate.

LOL, my translator says eredicate ... Cheap translator program is cheap...

Blacksails wrote:And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.

Sooo... By this logic, i have a better chance to hit an enemy tank if my officer points it out that i need to take out that tank (even if my original intention was to take out that tank anyways)... I have some real combat experience, but i simply can't imagine the situation...

AtoMaki wrote:

Blacksails wrote:And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.

Sooo... By this logic, i have a better chance to hit an enemy tank if my officer points it out that i need to take out that tank (even if my original intention was to take out that tank anyways)... I have some real combat experience, but i simply can't imagine the situation...

The orders aren't meant to literally represent what is happening on the table. Soldiers aren't rolling D6s in battle to determine whether or not they can hit their target. The order system represents how the officers function, in a simplified game system with a secondary intention of game balance.

Arguing the literal, real world analogy for a table-top game is not going to get you far. The intention of the rules is to give the feeling of your officers directing their troops, not to create real-world analogies to blowing up tanks because my officer pointed his finger and yelled 'Kill it with fire!'.

Orders provide character for your officers besides simply being a higher Ld value. They are effective and useful while not being game breaking. They are fun and provide some real uses to the way an army plays.

Orders are perfectly fine and should be left alone.

+ baneblade
- orders

That is all

seriously the codex just needs tweaked doctrines, maybe a super heavy tank, other than that is is fine.

I would actually like the Catachans to be more Commando-y.

Give them rules like MTC, Stealth, Infiltrate, Hit & Run, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe a rule that allows them to ignore any order.

I agree with Dead shot all the way

And deadfury101&Augustus . . . i play apoc games all the time . and i honestly think that a baneblade ( whilst being a ton of shenanigans like fun ) would be totally over powered and game breaking. i dont have my apoc book but what is the cost of a bane blade? 400-500 points? i can put 2 of them in a 1500 point army. take a commisar and 2 vet squads and just ROFL-STOMP everyone who comes at me with a list not geared for my 2 bane blades.....as much as i love the concept of superheavys in a regular game.......no ....just no....even limiting them to 1 per list is till game breaking

AtoMaki wrote:

rob-or-ross wrote:Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.

And thats why they need over-the-top stuff! The Imperial Guard is an army of Batmen. And as Batman has Batstuff, the IG needs something nasty and unique for the guardsmen.

... Imperial guard are pretty much meat shields in the fluff you know.

AtoMaki wrote:

rob-or-ross wrote:We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.

Your lack of faith is disturbing comrade. Why couldn't we kill a farseer with a chain-bayonet? Who would stop us? We could simply (and literally) saw through them.

That bayonet would first have to reach the seer though. That is the tricky part for the guardsman/men. Besides, guardsmen and melee is not usually a good idea.

gaovinni wrote:... Imperial guard are pretty much meat shields in the fluff you know.

My first (and maybe the most important) point was that (i think) the current IG fluff is a piece of crap. Changing "meat shield" to "war machine" could be a good start.

gaovinni wrote:That bayonet would first have to reach the seer though. That is the tricky part for the guardsman/men. Besides, guardsmen and melee is not usually a good idea.

What is so tricky with catching some random farseer? Just go there and do it. And kill everyone who try to stop you.

Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar

AtoMaki wrote:
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW)

Space Marines are Thataway =====>

The Pure one wrote:Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar

Eldar aren't by any reasonable measure any more intelligent, they make plenty of dumb decisions themselves, rather they are generally better educated and trained and faster with access to greater knowledge at will, and the Farseers aren't by any means always right and don't see everything.

The Pure one wrote:Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar

Touche !

Vaktathi wrote:Space Marines are Thataway =====>

Space Marines should be "meh" compared to Guardsmen in the terms of badassery.

And a few more things i want to see in the IG dex:
- Heavy 5 HStubber (can be assault 5, but only with -1 BS), and HStubber option as special weapon
- Assault 2 Grenade Launchers
- HWT-s as 2 models "mini-unit"
- HWS can take Signum and Vox
- Auxiliary Grenade Launchers and a whole arsenal of grenades (concussion(defensive)/smoke/gas/rad)
- Lascannon sponsons for Leman Russes
- Command, Drop and Heavy Weapons Platoons
- Some sort of open-topped fast skimmer transporter/gunship, similar to the Intruder from the Killzone games

sluggaslugga wrote:
Stormtroopers should get Demolition Charges

Dont they already have it? or is it only for the Forgeworld stuff.

Edit: Whoa... didnt saw the page count, ignore this and move along.

The problem with a baneblade is that you would have to inculde super heavies and super heavy rules for all races, and it could end up being a big mess. Plus you have new templates to use in "normal" games.

No. I would just add in proper military ranks such as lieutenant (lou-tennant not left there is no 'f' there), or colonel. Drop orders for doctrines. I have used going to ground with get back in the fight too many times for it to feel right. Bump the cost of vendettas up, don't add bolters automatically or remove the transport ability and keep the cost alone. Sentinels should be able to take the old chainsaws (Dread CCW) again, and count as elites or fast.

Akroma06 wrote:
No. I would just add in proper military ranks such as lieutenant (lou-tennant not left there is no 'f' there), or colonel.

Silly Americans...Lieutenant is pronounced 'Left'tenant. You're all just in denial.



Oh, and I agree with your point about giving them ranks.

Some kind of artilery that is not moterized

LORD SOLAR MACHARIUS

improvements to storm troopers

a decent CC unit that is reliable not massively overpriced or looks really stupid