Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

asimo77 wrote:. I think I'm just one of those guys that comics just don't work with.

Or The Punisher.

Great story, Human without any non-human capabilities. Etc.

Bottom line is that most comic books are written to entertain 6-15 year olds, who like to see the ridiculous power level that is written within.

I mean I really enjoyed all the animated stuff especially the DCAU which is like my entire childhood. And on the Marvel side the Spiderman and X-men cartoons were great, but it seems the comics are wildly different. Plus it would be intimidating to try to just jump into an entire mythos and universe that has been decades in the making (though I suppose the same could be said of 40k). Most of all though I think it would break my heart to see all the cartoon characters I grew up with deal with serious issues.

The only comic I've read is "Watchmen", which was great but felt rather removed from its own universe; and now that the Telltale game is out im considering getting the "Walking Dead".

Ok I'm done derailing this thread with my own views on comics!

P.S. I always thought the Punisher was so lame. His powers are wearing skull shirts and guns Super heroes can be super just not too super.

You know the reason he wore the Skull Shirt right?

It was because the Skull covered his body center mass, and that is where his Kevlar vest is.

It will draw more fire than anything else, because the rest of his outfit is black.

That way he does not die.

I didn't know that, but it still strikes me as funny.

A guy who wears a skull t-shirt and likes to shoot things sounds more like my older brother than a super hero

salix_fatuus wrote:

Carnage dangerous as he is would not be much of a threat in the long run. Flamers would be applied the moment he is noticed and his ridiculous vulnerability to high levels of sounds would render him writhing in pain the moment anything explodes or a tank fires near him, and if he is stupid to attack a tank and the thing goes boom then there goes carnage with it (if he was in 40k he would have "vulnerable to blasts" *5).

Hunterindarkness
I agree in the long run someone might get him. But then he does not do stand up fights. He is a monster, a beast a murder and psychopath. They would get him in numbers, but how many would they loose to one man? His is Pairmach level of power or better.

asimo77 wrote:I didn't know that, but it still strikes me as funny.

A guy who wears a skull t-shirt and likes to shoot things sounds more like my older brother than a super hero

He is not really a "Super Hero" but he is a Vigilante outcast that kills almost everyone he faces. Except Wolverine, he cant touch Wolverine, the best he could do was make Wolverine attack him near a power station, and he dodged at just the right time making Wolverine contact some high voltage wires. This did not kill wolverine, but he was unable to move because of the electricity running through his body. then he escaped, because he knew the power would short out and Wolverine would regenerate.


Back on topic: there is nothing the IoM could do that would leave them winning against Marvel Earth.

The Avengers were 4 superheros (1 of them a human in suit) and 2 Semi-Superhero's (Hawkeye and Black Widow), and they kicked all types of invading army arse!

Bottom Line, Marvel Earth Wins.

Hunterindarkness wrote:The Marvel universe is one of the few that could not only hold its own vs 40k, but completely decimate it. professor x alone could mindwrip the whole planet, at will. The Hulk has been brought but..You. Can. Not.Stop.The.Hulk. If you are really lucky you can slow him, Good Ol Magneto can pull the earth off its axis at will, good luck bringing a fleet. Franklin Richards..just, Game over man, game over.And as for the Nids? Well already been there, done that. The brood did not do so hot, nor did any other Nid like beastly the MU has introduced over the years.

One other note. I would pay good money, No joke to see Deadpool run though a space Marine Chapter, wise creaking all the way.

To be fair, the Brood DID get Xavier-the one we've known since about 1985 is a clone-the real Xavier was infected by a Brood and the X-men had to put him down. The Shi-Ar cloned him (he was even able to walk again for a time). Of course, that probably ruined at least one person's night on here. If I actually wanted to dig out my Claremont anthologies, I'd give the exact number. Instead, google it for his death. But yes, the Brood always lose, and they aren't any bit nicer than Nids. Nids lose to Marvel Earth, even if that isn't the discussion in question.

And to the guy with the Tau avatar who keeps thinking the Imperium of Man would win...I forgot your name, but do some research in the Marvel universe. Your precious IoM is screwed in this fight-Hulk wants to smash you right now for not siding with him. The only point you made that I agree with is Tony Stark/Iron Man not being able to take out the Marines. I think they'd get him-he isn't invincible. Hulk, Sentry, Thor, and Ares (before Sentry went nuclear on him) would all like to chime in and will each kill an entire ship of marines by themselves. Give Carnage, Venom and Wolverine each free reign over 5 legions of IG and those 3 will win. The IG will have no opportunity to flame Carnage or Venom. MAYBE if they realize that high-pitched sonics can harm them, they'd stand a chance. Oh, and let's add Red Hulk, Abomination, A-Bomb, She Hulk, Red She-Hulk and Colossus/Juggernaut 3 in for gaks and giggles. And if, IF, those guys fail, we still have Xavier to mind wipe everyone and Magneto to turn all their weapons against them/crush them in their armor. IoM had best leave Marvel Earth alone. Arguing with a Marvel nerd like me in this case is SERIOUSLY a losing battle.

Belexar wrote:And Molecule Man is dead.

As per the OP, at this point in time the Molecule Man isn't dead yet, that happens later I believe. If not, he's only dead for as long as the Sentry wants him to be.

Cheers

Andrew

In the 'Secret Wars' issue #4 (Uhlan <--- go nerds!) the Hulk lifted a MOUNTAIN!

That said, however,

The Marvel Universe would keep the IoM from the Earth until the main characters died off.

The Imperium can wait millenia to finish a job...

Thor, Ares and Wolverine won't die from age. There are a few others who can probably expand their lives if they put their minds to it-Franklin Richards, Proteus (Moira MacTaggert's son), Legion (Xavier's son), and possibly Hulk-not too sure, depends on how mad he gets at The Aging Process (I felt it deserved to be addressed as a proper noun if Hulk is getting pissed at it). Sentry may be able to ignore the aging process as well. Oh, and Apocalypse. He doesn't die either, he just loses a lot. I saw somebody mention Sinister earlier, but Sinister is mortal-he clones himself and imprints his knowledge into the clone to "remain young." His first failed clone was Gambit, spliced with Cyclops' DNA. Probably pissed MORE of you off now, by putting that out there.

salix_fatuus wrote:

salix_fatuus wrote:

Carnage dangerous as he is would not be much of a threat in the long run. Flamers would be applied the moment he is noticed and his ridiculous vulnerability to high levels of sounds would render him writhing in pain the moment anything explodes or a tank fires near him, and if he is stupid to attack a tank and the thing goes boom then there goes carnage with it (if he was in 40k he would have "vulnerable to blasts" *5).

Hunterindarkness
I agree in the long run someone might get him. But then he does not do stand up fights. He is a monster, a beast a murder and psychopath. They would get him in numbers, but how many would they loose to one man? His is Pairmach level of power or better.

True that he is not a stand up fighter and would do better with hit and run attacks, taking out weak and vulnerable targets. So yes the IoM would most likely loose a lot o men to him. But then again numbers is what the IoM have, "Send in the next wave".
Thou I thought of something and please correct me if i'm wrong. Since Carnage have such a high level of weakness to fire (heat) then don't that mean that even a simple lasgun would be highly lethal for him?

clearly you dont know carnage. a vehicle exploding next to him dosent even casue him so much as a headache. you need intense sonics or high heat or both, and even then you probally only slow him down. venom on the other hand is a bit more vulnerable to those things, but he is also more strategic. carnage would just rampage through the lines, no issues. and if the slightest sound of blast is a concern, then how come it didnt phase him in maximum carnage? he was constantly being pestered by police (with sirens) and he was exploding vehicles left right and center. plus, he was able to withstand the sonic torture he administed to venom.

carnage is not the most powerful, but he would sure as heck tear any ground forces short of a titan a new one pretty fast. and im willing to bet hed have good odds on a titan. just get up close and personal, then can opener and enjoy the squishy insides. simply becasue aside from his pure brute force power, and psychotic killing prowess, hes FRIGGING FAST - comparable if not faster then spiderman. (who is arguablly one of marvels most agile and speedy characters - aside from flash)

Marvel wins, hands down.

McNinja wrote:

salix_fatuus wrote:

salix_fatuus wrote:

Carnage dangerous as he is would not be much of a threat in the long run. Flamers would be applied the moment he is noticed and his ridiculous vulnerability to high levels of sounds would render him writhing in pain the moment anything explodes or a tank fires near him, and if he is stupid to attack a tank and the thing goes boom then there goes carnage with it (if he was in 40k he would have "vulnerable to blasts" *5).

Hunterindarkness
I agree in the long run someone might get him. But then he does not do stand up fights. He is a monster, a beast a murder and psychopath. They would get him in numbers, but how many would they loose to one man? His is Pairmach level of power or better.

True that he is not a stand up fighter and would do better with hit and run attacks, taking out weak and vulnerable targets. So yes the IoM would most likely loose a lot o men to him. But then again numbers is what the IoM have, "Send in the next wave".
Thou I thought of something and please correct me if i'm wrong. Since Carnage have such a high level of weakness to fire (heat) then don't that mean that even a simple lasgun would be highly lethal for him?

Lasers aren't fire, just energy.

Also, in terms of sheer insane ferocity, Carnage is more akin to an Eversor assassin and far, far stronger and tougher. He is stronger than Spider man and has superior powers. Actually, Carnage is more like ten Eversor Assassins...

Also, I doubt Carnage would get touched by flame. He is simply too fast. When you can jump 3 stories on a bad day, I think you're safe from any noob with a flamer.

Forge, upon seeing Plasma Gun Tech, would make Plasma guns for his side, WITH cooling systems so they would have no chance of getting hot!

Marvel Wins again!

Also on the Cable virus how would he get the virus to the ships?

Forge creates nanobots that fly up there and upload it.

Marvel - 978 IoM - 1 (I gave them 1 because they might be able to get off one salvo and kill something)

And I thought 40K was silly...

timetowaste85 wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:The Marvel universe is one of the few that could not only hold its own vs 40k, but completely decimate it. professor x alone could mindwrip the whole planet, at will. The Hulk has been brought but..You. Can. Not.Stop.The.Hulk. If you are really lucky you can slow him, Good Ol Magneto can pull the earth off its axis at will, good luck bringing a fleet. Franklin Richards..just, Game over man, game over.And as for the Nids? Well already been there, done that. The brood did not do so hot, nor did any other Nid like beastly the MU has introduced over the years.

One other note. I would pay good money, No joke to see Deadpool run though a space Marine Chapter, wise creaking all the way.

To be fair, the Brood DID get Xavier-the one we've known since about 1985 is a clone-the real Xavier was infected by a Brood and the X-men had to put him down. The Shi-Ar cloned him (he was even able to walk again for a time). Of course, that probably ruined at least one person's night on here. If I actually wanted to dig out my Claremont anthologies, I'd give the exact number. Instead, google it for his death. But yes, the Brood always lose, and they aren't any bit nicer than Nids. Nids lose to Marvel Earth, even if that isn't the discussion in question.

And to the guy with the Tau avatar who keeps thinking the Imperium of Man would win...I forgot your name, but do some research in the Marvel universe. Your precious IoM is screwed in this fight-Hulk wants to smash you right now for not siding with him. The only point you made that I agree with is Tony Stark/Iron Man not being able to take out the Marines. I think they'd get him-he isn't invincible. Hulk, Sentry, Thor, and Ares (before Sentry went nuclear on him) would all like to chime in and will each kill an entire ship of marines by themselves. Give Carnage, Venom and Wolverine each free reign over 5 legions of IG and those 3 will win. The IG will have no opportunity to flame Carnage or Venom.

Of course they would. Any guardsman with a flamer, melta or plasma gun would have a chance of incinerating Carnage or Venom.

Wolverine would be a problem, but that matter might well be settled by a force weapon. I honestly don't know what kind of effect that would have. If not, then again the C'tan phase sword can cut through anything.

Logan: "Hey *insert trusted teamate here*"
Callidus Assassin: "Hey, Logan."
Logan: "Is that a new perfu-" SHANK.
Callidus Assassin: "Ahem."

There might be a question of whether Wolverine would be able to scent the difference in a Callidus Assassin (perhaps if he was paying close attention), but given that polymorphine suits stand up to even the most stringent of identity checks it's highly unlikely.

And if, IF, those guys fail, we still have Xavier to mind wipe everyone and Magneto to turn all their weapons against them/crush them in their armor. IoM had best leave Marvel Earth alone. Arguing with a Marvel nerd like me in this case is SERIOUSLY a losing battle.

Well where was Xavier when that Skrull Invasion was going on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:
I don't know how you think Cable is going to get his hands on Imperial Tech when it's flying around in orbit. And even if Proffessor Xavier could mind sweep the shielded fleet (and not go crazy upon viewing the horrors of the warp) how is he going to get the information to Magneto?

You are just trying to neat pick by this point. How does anyone get anyone any info at any given time? MU high tech stuff makes the IoM tech look downright archaic. Mags himself is such a genius with an understanding of technology out stripping that used by the Iom that he could most likely just figure it out himself.

You are not getting that the MU simply outclasses the IoM in about every way you can outclass something.

Where is your justification for this? MU technology is more complex than IoM, Magneto could reverse engineer technology that he has absolutely no understanding on. You're not getting that your favourite characters are no longer protected by plot armour. Deus Ex Machina's don't come into play here. Discuss actual capabilities, not "Well they would come up with something".

Hazardous Harry wrote:


I think you're misunderstanding. You said he survived his entire island being nuked. Lance batteries generally level continents. And why would the ship get only 1 shot? It's a whole battery of lances, not a single lance.

And you are ignoring the fact the fleet never gets close to earth, not even slightly, if lucky they might see mars. MU knows they are coming, there is not any scenario in which tat fleet is not hit as soon as it lands in real space.

Marvel Earth knows about the impending invasion. There's nothing to suggest that Magneto would be adverse to the IoM killing most of his opponents before quickly wiping out the Imperials himself, creating a Mutant Paradise. Hell, he might just be arrogant even to try it. It's certainly not the craziest plan he's come up with.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
1) The Callidus Assasin's of the Officio Assasinorum are equipped with them. If you read the link the sword can cut through literally anything, including energy barriers so Magneto's shield is out. It is encased in metal (of an unknown type) so Magneto would be able control it. But he would have to be able to see it coming first.

2) There are a assassins and then there Officio Assasinorum operatives. We're talking a whole different level of competence here. Unless Magneto had some means of detecting the polymorphine drug, which he clearly doesn't.

What type of metal it is has nothing to do with it, he has hurled folks across rooms by the iron in there blood alone. You are really and truly underestimating your target. And yes as Mags can craft meta humans he has ways of detecting such. He understands more about the meta gene then about anyone alive. You are willfully ignoring his capabilities.

I am wilfully ignoring his capabilities? Sorry, but I distinctly recall a certain mutant by the name of 'Mystique' that was very talented when it came to this kind of thing. How would he be able to detect the Callidus Assassin, yet not Mystique?


I'm not pretending the Callidus would stand a chance against Magneto in a straight up fight. I'm telling you that the first thing Magneto will know about the Callidus would be a C'tan phase sword through his skull.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Again, how is he going to teleport through the shields?

Because. He.Can. He is the mastery of powers and technologies nothing in 40k can handle and that is just the fact of the matter. No one knows how he does it, no one can really stop him if he really wants to. His mind is so post human no one knows why he does some things or can conceive how he does them.

This is getting to the point where you're no longer interested in discussion, but more about promoting adulation of your favourite characters. I'm willing to admit that the Imperium has weaknesses in this regard (hence why a Callidus Assassin would be better suited to do in Magneto than a fleet), but you won't even bother to justify your assertions in this matter anymore.

I think I am done trading shots with you. Every post I have to repeat the same stuff, stuff you can easily go look up and every time you ignore it as if ignoring it changes it. Marvels 616 earth operates at a level far outreaching 40.The settings just do not work in the same levels. I know thois is a 40k site and all, but facts are facts and truth is truth.

Okay, it's clear you're not willing to entertain the fact that the MU might have any weaknesses at all. I mean, heaven forbid something actually threatening your favourite comic of all time!

I apologise if I have come across as a little aggressive, I'm just trying to have an engaging discussion.

No man I just see no point in debating with someone who willing refuses to look up the subject matter and willy ignores things they dislike. Be cause he can is not ignoring or trying to dodge a debate it is simply a statement. Be cause he really and truly can and if you do not think his tech is levels and leagues above40k stuff you really are not informed about him at all.


The best you have is rehash of comic arcs that where done in the 80's or 90's. Oh lets send as blue lady look alike to kill magento! he could never tell! Or have an henchman turn on him dun dun dun! Its been done to death, over and over and over. Back in the asteroid M days everyone who sat foot upon the station was scanned and he know who and what they were, even if they did not know he knew. I read all those plots you keep saying would work ages ago.

They have been tried by deadlier and more powerful people.
I am not picking my favorite characters I am simply telling you 40k is out of its league on this one

@Hazardous Harry: sure, the guardsmen have a .0001% chance of actually being able to hit Carnage or Venom with a flamer. Likely they'll kill their own guys instead. They can both alter what they look like to sneak up on their target and kill quietly. Shapeshifters and all. And only the miramasa (spelling) blade is powerful enough to kill Wolverine-it was tempered in his blood, I believe. A force weapon will temporarily take him out of the fight.
You're one of two people in this thread who actually believes the IoM would win, and everyone else has sided with Marvel and has given overwhelming support to their reasons. It's time to admit defeat.

Oh, and I believe Xavier was temporarily powerless during Skrull invasion. 95% of the time, he's at full power.
The only rational point made was about Magneto-old Magneto would let the IoM kill off most of humanity first, then stop it. New age Magneto works for Cyclops as one of the X-men. Cyke is gonna tell him to wipe the marines out while they're still in orbit. Oops.

Hunterindarkness wrote:No man I just see no point in debating with someone who willing refuses to look up the subject matter and willy ignores things they dislike. Be cause he can is not ignoring or trying to dodge a debate it is simply a statement. Be cause he really and truly can and if you do not think his tech is levels and leagues above40k stuff you really are not informed about him at all.

Except you've given no me nothing to work with here. You've just said 'He can'. No grounding, no comparisons, not even a description of asses he has kicked beforehand. 'His tech is way above 40k stuff' is a statement, a statement that needs evidence.

The best you have is rehash of comic arcs that where done in the 80's or 90's. Oh lets send as blue lady look alike to kill magento! he could never tell! Or have an henchman turn on him dun dun dun! Its been done to death, over and over and over. Back in the asteroid M days everyone who sat foot upon the station was scanned and he know who and what they were, even if they did not know he knew. I read all those plots you keep saying would work ages ago.

Professor Xavier could not detect who was who during the Secret Invasion. If anything the ability of a Callidus Assassin is just as, if not more so, adept as a Skrull at infiltration. Callidus Assassin's routinely pass highly advanced scans of their persons without breaking a sweat. Where is your evidence that Magneto would be any the wiser that one of his henchmen was not who he said he was?

The plots you keep saying won't work only fail to kill Magneto because they were either done by amateurs or because he is (as the main antagonist of the X-men) protected by a hefty amount of plot armour.

They have been tried by deadlier and more powerful people.
I am not picking my favorite characters I am simply telling you 40k is out of its league on this one

And you're trying to make these guys sound infallible. They are most certainly not.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

asimo77 wrote:. I think I'm just one of those guys that comics just don't work with.

All in the setting man, Marvel or DC may not be for you. But if ya do not mind preacher level of gore and sex..read " The Boy's" by dynamite publishing. I have a sinking feeling you would love it as it pokes fun and turns "beloved" comic icons into well people with inhuman power. The series only has one or two issues left But I simply can not recommend it enough. Also if ya can find them the "Authority" by image comics, not the new stuff that has been mismashed with the current Dc time line.

Oh yeah, Preacher and the Authority are both brilliant comics. Though the Authority can get a bit silly, like with the whole "Spirit of the Century" and the "King of the Cities thing."
I still have no idea how he could control cities...

@Hazardous Harry Go to marvels page, do some searches. I am not saying they lack flaws, I am saying they are well and above the IoM's ability to handle. If you honesly think you can sneak a C'tan sword into mag's room while he is sleeping you really are underestimating the man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Oh yeah, Preacher and the Authority are both brilliant comics. Though the Authority can get a bit silly, like with the whole "Spirit of the Century" and the "King of the Cities thing."
I still have no idea how he could control cities...

Yes, but at lest they addressed issues other comics missed and the Jenny's were awesome. I missed sparks when she was gone.

Hunterindarkness wrote:@Hazardous Harry Go to marvels page, do some searches. I am not saying they lack flaws, I am saying they are well and above the IoM's ability to handle. If you honesly think you can sneak a C'tan sword into mag's room while he is sleeping you really are underestimating the man.

Could you at least provide me with a link to a place with decent stats? All the ones I've searched up by myself have been wildly inconsistent.

As for assassinating Magneto, the Callidus Assassin wouldn't need to sneak into his room. The Callidus could stab Magneto, in the face, mid-conversation. Or from behind if you think Magneto's reaction time would be truly superhuman. On top of that, as another poster has mentioned, the C'tan Phase Sword is unlikely to even be magnetic.

DeathReaper wrote:

asimo77 wrote:. I think I'm just one of those guys that comics just don't work with.

Or The Punisher.

Great story, Human without any non-human capabilities. Etc.

Bottom line is that most comic books are written to entertain 6-15 year olds, who like to see the ridiculous power level that is written within.

Heh. Certainly explains the antics of one or two GW staff that we know of

He told you to go to the marvel character database. Marvel.com, if you can't find it yourself. And is the sword made of metal? Magneto has trained himself to be able to manipulate ANY metal now, not just magnetic ones.

Hunterindarkness wrote:@Hazardous Harry Go to marvels page, do some searches. I am not saying they lack flaws, I am saying they are well and above the IoM's ability to handle. If you honesly think you can sneak a C'tan sword into mag's room while he is sleeping you really are underestimating the man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Oh yeah, Preacher and the Authority are both brilliant comics. Though the Authority can get a bit silly, like with the whole "Spirit of the Century" and the "King of the Cities thing."
I still have no idea how he could control cities...

Yes, but at lest they addressed issues other comics missed and the Jenny's were awesome. I missed sparks when she was gone.

Oh yeah, Jenny Sparks was a great character. Such a strong personality.

timetowaste85 wrote:He told you to go to the marvel character database. Marvel.com, if you can't find it yourself.

You mean this? http://marvel.com/universe/Magneto_(Max_Eisenhardt)
Was that really so hard?

And is the sword made of metal? Magneto has trained himself to be able to manipulate ANY metal now, not just magnetic ones.

I've read through the entry, nowhere does it say he that. I might be wrong, but I'll need to see where you're getting this from.

He has manipulated gold in the past, which is non-magnetic.

Cheers

Andrew

Well, that proves the Marvel creative staff failed science
Seriously, he's called magneto, which would imply he uses magnetism, and as such has no power against non-magnetic substances.
The fact that he can use magnetism to control non-magnetic substances kinda makes his name a misnomer.

AndrewC wrote:He has manipulated gold in the past, which is non-magnetic.

Does that mean he is capable of manipulating all metals though, even one so alien and exotic as a Necrodermis?