Ultimate Eldar Battle Report "The Trilogy" - AlamoGT(X)Railhead Rumble(X)WargamesCon(X)19/19FINISHED

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**pretre**

Thanks for the report!

I like the reports, but am not sure what the purpose of parts like this are:

6 str8 shots, and 60+ Str6 shots shoot into the bugger. He doesnt take a wound. (yea ok this is utterly stupid. Ive shot 100 str6 shots into mephiston and he hasnt died warhammer is stupid. Some One who knows fluff can explain this to me, but if you can take 100 str6 shots your OP).

Yeah, there are dice in the game. Yeah, sometimes unusual thing happen. Would you have railed against the game and posted if you shot 6 S6 shots at him and he died? That's equally absurd from a fluff standpoint.

Also, I would just leave the drama out of the BR entirely. Don't mention it by saying that you're not going to talk about that. There was a previous poster who had a tendency to do this and it only caused more and more bad blood. Just leave it out entirely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm sorry if I'm missing it, but where is game 6?

**Smitty0305**

pretre wrote:Thanks for the report!

I like the reports, but am not sure what the purpose of parts like this are:

6 str8 shots, and 60+ Str6 shots shoot into the bugger. He doesnt take a wound. (yea ok this is utterly stupid. Ive shot 100 str6 shots into mephiston and he hasnt died warhammer is stupid. Some One who knows fluff can explain this to me, but if you can take 100 str6 shots your OP).

Yeah, there are dice in the game. Yeah, sometimes unusual thing happen. Would you have railed against the game and posted if you shot 6 S6 shots at him and he died? That's equally absurd from a fluff standpoint.

Also, I would just leave the drama out of the BR entirely. Don't mention it by saying that you're not going to talk about that. There was a previous poster who had a tendency to do this and it only caused more and more bad blood. Just leave it out entirely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm sorry if I'm missing it, but where is game 6?

One thing about the battle report is that it is an honest recolection from my stand point. Im not saying my emotions/thoughts are justifiable, im just being honest at how I felt when 100 str6 guided shots couldnt kill a model with 2 wounds left.

Mephiston - Do I care that he took 100 str6 shots and no wounds? No lol its part of the game and theres nothing I can do about it. During the game tho I was honestly somewhat frustrated/annoyed that I shot my entire army into a model twice and couldnt put a scratch on him. Its just an honest depiction on what I was thinking as the action was taking place, nothing more. Do I think its somewhat absurd? Yes. Does my opinion mean anything? Only from a standpoint of me trying to depict as many aspects about the game as possible.

As far as the Drama I cant leave it out entirely, because that would be skewing a part of the game that provides a complete understanding of the setting. What I can do tho is not attack my opponent, but rather relfect on the drama in a compleatly un biased manner. I understand where your comming from (And let me assure you ive compleatly left out alot of stuff that happened so far in my games), but as far as if a game was stressful or not I think thats important for the readers to understand whats happening.

As far as game 6 it isnt written yet, it should be up this weekend as im adding 1 game a day.

**pretre**

Aha. I await game 6 then.

As for drama, it is your choice, just warning you based on what I have seen in the past.

**Avatar 720**

On turns 3 and 4, your 2 FDs that kept whiffing looked to have been close enough to simply charge the raider and try and melta-bomb it down (as did the other 5, although with Mephy in the way it might've been more difficult to try); I might be missing something but is there a reason as to why you didn't?

**Smitty0305**

Avatar 720 wrote:On turns 3 and 4, your 2 FDs that kept whiffing looked to have been close enough to simply charge the raider and try and melta-bomb it down (as did the other 5, although with Mephy in the way it might've been more difficult to try); I might be missing something but is there a reason as to why you didn't?

umm.

I dont remember exactly how far the land raider moved each turn. He used machine spirit alot and moved 6-12" and sometimes he didnt move. I also dont remmeber if MEPH was in the way to prevent me, or if I had to rotate my serpent before I bailed to get a better angle. I also might have gone to ground with a fire dragon unit.

If your right then yea that was a mistake to not charge it.

**Lucre**

I'm not sure if anyone has put this to you yet, but because you set off my spider sense, I tried to draw up your RAILHEAD list today in points. It wasn't as light on points as I had assumed, but it did come out to 1815 as far as my codex reckons.

Just enough for some dragon spirit stones or extra cannons on your serpents!

Hahaha, besides that, I'm really liking this list, your last one was hard to wrap my head around, what with the guardian defenders. I'm really enjoying this thread, periodically checking it is rewarding and you are definitely establishing a persona!

**Red Corsair**

Great game, I think he was playing for the objectives more then you early, probably why he didn't over extend. Had the game ended on 5 or had his shooting killed the wave serpent rather then assault, he would have had it or at least tied. Or maybe he was waiting for you to make a move for the objectives so he could counter, who knows except him I guess.

Looking forward to the spellbound rematch most!

Thanks!

**Smitty0305**

Lucre wrote:I'm not sure if anyone has put this to you yet, but because you set off my spider sense, I tried to draw up your RAILHEAD list today in points. It wasn't as light on points as I had assumed, but it did come out to 1815 as far as my codex reckons.

Just enough for some dragon spirit stones or extra cannons on your serpents!

Hahaha, besides that, I'm really liking this list, your last one was hard to wrap my head around, what with the guardian defenders. I'm really enjoying this thread, periodically checking it is rewarding and you are definitely establishing a persona!

Check if you added the 6 EMLS on the walkers instead of the scatters, that would be the 30 extra points. Just glad that im not over lol

Glad you enjoy the reports, and as far as the Alamo List it had its triumphs (game 4 where my storms killed 4 tanks and my defenders immobolized 1), and its not triumphs (game 3 where they all died).

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Red Corsair wrote:Great game, I think he was playing for the objectives more then you early, probably why he didn't over extend. Had the game ended on 5 or had his shooting killed the wave serpent rather then assault, he would have had it or at least tied. Or maybe he was waiting for you to make a move for the objectives so he could counter, who knows except him I guess.

Looking forward to the spellbound rematch most!

Thanks!

Yea your perspective on his gameplay makes sense, I just think moving out the death company when it was my only real target was a little strange. The assault marines obviously moved to capture/contest the back objective, but with 9 walkers and the marines being out of cover without fnp im not sure why he thought they would live. The Furioso/Death company deployment and lack of movement on the land raider surprised me.

And my report against spellbound will be up tommorow! it was a crazy game.

**Lucre**

Smitty0305 wrote:

Check if you added the 6 EMLS on the walkers instead of the scatters, that would be the 30 extra points. Just glad that im not over lol

Glad you enjoy the reports, and as far as the Alamo List it had its triumphs (game 4 where my storms killed 4 tanks and my defenders immobolized 1), and its not triumphs (game 3 where they all died).

Superseer
210

Dragon Serpents with cannons
170 x 3
= 510

Scoring Serpents with lazers
175 x 3 (slowed that it costs more than 5x meltaguns and 1 less str 6 shot at 12 less range, I know)
= 525

Scouting Double Lazers
60 x 6
= 360

Scouting Double Missile Guide-Bait
70 x 3
= 210

For a whopping total of......... 1815
Unless something is costed incorrectly, you got your wins with not only the handicap of a dated-dex but also 35 points to play with.

Also, if you'd mind explaining your 1st game railhead comments about him not putting enough pressure on you early in. I just couldn't see how much he could have done differently that way at the bottom of his 2nd. He did give you juicy targets, besides the bubble wrap on his raider, I understand your glee there, I'm just more curious about how you thought he should have played it.

**BlueDagger**

If Mephy had FNP then honestly 100 S6 shots statistically won't kill him and without FNP jsut barely kills him if you are rolling statistically. Him making 38 saves with a 2+ and FNP isn't terribly unheard of.

100 shots at BS 3 TL = 75 hits
Str 6 vs T6 = 37-38 Wounds
2+ armor save = 6-7 unsaved wounds
4+ FNP = 3-4 wounds

EMLs are actually a terrible weapon to try to take him down with sadly.

PS: That intangible wall thing is probably one of the stupidest mechanics I have ever heard of a GT doing. Friendly matches for a giggle ok, but in a GT lolol. i'ts basically "congrats gunline based army builds, you lose"

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Dragon serpents with cannons is 180... and wow on the lazers thing... really that is horrifically annoying.

DP marines should be dropping the pods right in eldar's face not i n the middle zone that they did. That forces them to scatter or risk being corralled. The positioning gave Smitty TONS of breathing room.

**Red Corsair**

Yea I think I would have been outspoken about my disappointment in that terrain. Set aside mechanics, it just looks terrible.

**Smitty0305**

Lucre wrote:
Smitty0305 wrote:

Check if you added the 6 EMLS on the walkers instead of the scatters, that would be the 30 extra points. Just glad that im not over lol

Glad you enjoy the reports, and as far as the Alamo List it had its triumphs (game 4 where my storms killed 4 tanks and my defenders immobolized 1), and its not triumphs (game 3 where they all died).

Superseer
210

Dragon Serpents with cannons
170 x 3
= 510

Scoring Serpents with lazers
175 x 3 (slowed that it costs more than 5x meltaguns and 1 less str 6 shot at 12 less range, I know)
= 525

Scouting Double Lazers
60 x 6
= 360

Scouting Double Missile Guide-Bait
70 x 3
= 210

For a whopping total of......... 1815
Unless something is costed incorrectly, you got your wins with not only the handicap of a dated-dex but also 35 points to play with.

Also, if you'd mind explaining your 1st game railhead comments about him not putting enough pressure on you early in. I just couldn't see how much he could have done differently that way at the bottom of his 2nd. He did give you juicy targets, besides the bubble wrap on his raider, I understand your glee there, I'm just more curious about how you thought he should have played it.

5 dragons in a wave serpent costs 100+ 80 points, for a total of 540 points not 510.

If I was my opponent round 1 I would have done the following things.
1) Bring in the land raider in the middle. With Meph walking and running right next to it.
2) I would have brought 1 razorback behind the hill with the objective and camped it there the entire game. If he had done this he would of gotten alot more shots off.
3) I would have brought the other razorback to scream up the left flank and shoot from behind the wall obscured, and I would have moved that turn 5.
4) I would have dropped the Death Company Pod first turn behind cover just like he did.
5) Turn 2 I would have moved the land raider, the Death Company up mid field. I would have dropped the Dred to the left of my walker formation right next to a wave serpent getting a next turn assault and shooting into a dragon serpent.
6) I would have dropped the Asault marines right next to my Army, as close to the war walkers as I can.

With this, Meph, Death Company, Dred, Honor Guard, and 10 assault marines would hit my lines in a matter of 2 Turns. The razorback lazcannons would be shooting the entire time during this, and would be holding 2 objectives. My Goal would be to OVERWELM the army. Also the assault marines would have FNP Dropping next to the land raider. With that you have alot of bodies and armor hitting the walkers at the same time, and either Meph, the honor guard, death company or the dred would have gotten into CC with the walkers, meaning it was game over. Advance as one army, not a staggered force that I can pick off one at a time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Corsair wrote:Yea I think I would have been outspoken about my disappointment in that terrain. Set aside mechanics, it just looks terrible.

If you look at Game 3 and game 5 I do some stupid stuff using the terrain rofl.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlueDagger wrote:If Mephy had FNP then honestly 100 S6 shots statistically won't kill him and without FNP jsut barely kills him if you are rolling statistically. Him making 38 saves with a 2+ and FNP isn't terribly unheard of.

100 shots at BS 3 TL = 75 hits
Str 6 vs T6 = 37-38 Wounds
2+ armor save = 6-7 unsaved wounds
4+ FNP = 3-4 wounds

EMLs are actually a terrible weapon to try to take him down with sadly.

PS: That intangible wall thing is probably one of the stupidest mechanics I have ever heard of a GT doing. Friendly matches for a giggle ok, but in a GT lolol. i'ts basically "congrats gunline based army builds, you lose"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dragon serpents with cannons is 180... and wow on the lazers thing... really that is horrifically annoying.

DP marines should be dropping the pods right in eldar's face not i n the middle zone that they did. That forces them to scatter or risk being corralled. The positioning gave Smitty TONS of breathing room.

Yea I know the way to kill mephiston is with my Fire Dragons, but My Fire dragons needed to kill the Land Raider for the Primary, and I needed to kill the Furioso because I couldnt have killed it with anything else and it would eat me alive ( I hate furiosos so so much).

As far as actually shooting at Meph, I only shot at him WHEN HE WAS LITERALLY the only thing in LOS to shoot at lol.

And mathmatically yea your right I didnt have a large chance of killing him, but that is why I thought it was so cheesey.

I agree with you about the walls, although I used them ALOT during the tournament for my own advantage.

And your comment about the breathing room is correct, he never put any pressure on me so I had lots of room to pick him off as he came over the wall piecemail.

**Lucre**

Ah! The 80 point ones are from a fandex I've been using whenever I dust off my serpents, and it seemed like such a moderate change considering you still buy the weapons, I had almost forgotten.

Ah 100 point "cheap" serpents. Forgot about them...

**mal**

Thankyou for taking the time to write up these battle-reports.
I have been entertained by all of them, and have enjoyed the civil responses to rules disputes.

You have provoked my own interest in my eldar force again (cop that IG!)...

...Although I am confused by the exposition of objects in your recent 'home' photo of your pre-Dallas tourney army:
-home panamax
-wax frangipanis
-an ornamental wooden box...

What are we supposed to interpret from this collection?

**Iago**

Nicely done on that first game. I actually like those walls that block los, especially if there ina general lack in other terrain its a cheap and easy way to get it done.

**pretre**

Iago wrote:Nicely done on that first game. I actually like those walls that block los, especially if there ina general lack in other terrain its a cheap and easy way to get it done.

I'm okay with them.

2) BLOS Terrain - Dear Lord. On every table there are these 1 Foot tall Walls, that are compleatly BLOS. (They are passable), but every Single table has these huge dumb looking BLOS Terrain. Although I admire the Heroic 28's idea to actually incorporate BLOS terrain in a tournament, the extent they did it was too much. There were virtually no firing lanes, and the walls would give close combat armies a huge advantage over shooting armies. I cant really do anything about it, but as you will see I use the terrain to my advantage heavily.

BLOS is important to have on the board, but I don't like that they were passable like that. I think BLOS hills or buildings are better, but they probably had a time / money crunch. As well, because they have such a small footprint, they have a disproportionate impact on the battle. Generally, BLOS pieces are big nasty things that take up some board space and make you work around them. Those pretty much only blocked LOS. Silly.

**Smitty0305**

mal wrote:Thankyou for taking the time to write up these battle-reports.
I have been entertained by all of them, and have enjoyed the civil responses to rules disputes.

You have provoked my own interest in my eldar force again (cop that IG!)...

...Although I am confused by the exposition of objects in your recent 'home' photo of your pre-Dallas tourney army:
-home panamax
-wax frangipanis
-an ornamental wooden box...

What are we supposed to interpret from this collection?

no idea lol

**Smitty0305**

Game 2 - Rematch Against Spellbound

Spoiler:

**Red Corsair**

Great game, I agree that the mission/deployment paired with his list kinda settled this one. I found it odd that he fed you his HS though. With 72" range on his battle canons he could have deployed heavy on your right and lobbed rounds onto your isolated walkers. He could have then advanced into your zone to go for easy recon and late game quarters. Objectives was always an issue though. Did you guys deploy the objectives or were they pre set? If the TO placed them like that they should be slapped lol. Set objectives should always be placed in neutral zones that force engagements.

**Roadkill Zombie**

Nice reports. But I gotta ask you. If you KNOW what your opponent is going to do, and KNOW what he expects you to do....why did you do it and not something he didn't expect?

Your playing Eldar. The masters of trickery. Why did you flat out your fire dragons towards the defiler when you knew that is what he wanted you to do? It ended up getting your Wave Serpent killed when you could have sat back and shot him instead and kept your serpent alive. This would have also kept your Fire Dragons from having to chance getting pinned and possibly running away due to morale checks.

You have said a few times now that you know exactly how your games will go against Brian. Why not play some unexpected way so you don't get stuck doing the same thing over and over again?

Don't take this the wrong way but I really feel it was not necessary for you to fly straight into assult range with your FIre Dragon serpent like that. It was way too risky . Sure, they eventually got to kill the tank but what if they had failed their pinning check? Or their morale check and had to run back to your table edge?

Kudos for pulling out a win but it could very easily been a different game. I think waiting for the right moment to disembark the Fire Dragons to kill his defiler would have been better than flying straight into the jaws of them. Especially when you know that is exactly what he expected you to do . You lost a serpent for your troubles and a few melta troops. That serpent could have helped quite a bit in ramming his Rhino's to crack them open, or to shoot them in the rear, or even flat outing way across the board to eventually get rear shots on any/all of his vehicles from long range.

But that's just my view of it. Congrats on the win. Good luck in your upcoming ones.

**Smitty0305**

Red Corsair wrote:Great game, I agree that the mission/deployment paired with his list kinda settled this one. I found it odd that he fed you his HS though. With 72" range on his battle canons he could have deployed heavy on your right and lobbed rounds onto your isolated walkers. He could have then advanced into your zone to go for easy recon and late game quarters. Objectives was always an issue though. Did you guys deploy the objectives or were they pre set? If the TO placed them like that they should be slapped lol. Set objectives should always be placed in neutral zones that force engagements.

Before the game, players roll off. The Winning player places an objective 12" from each table edge on one long table edge. The Loosing player then places the objective in the opposite quarter 12" from each table edge. The looser then places another objective 12" away from either objective.

I won the roll off, and placed the objective on the top right hill. Brian then placed the other 2. I then rolled and won the roll to deploy and go first, and chose the side with the 2 objectives.

As far as Brians deployment Im sure he will comment on why he did what he did.

**Red Corsair**

OK thanks, I was curious how they ended up as they did. I look forward to hearing what his strategy was being a fellow chaos player

Congrats again on the epic win! You took pics so I guess we know it happened

ha ha.

**Smitty0305**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Nice reports. But I gotta ask you. If you KNOW what your opponent is going to do, and KNOW what he expects you to do....why did you do it and not something he didn't expect?

Your playing Eldar. The masters of trickery. Why did you flat out your fire dragons towards the defiler when you knew that is what he wanted you to do? It ended up getting your Wave Serpent killed when you could have sat back and shot him instead and kept your serpent alive. This would have also kept your Fire Dragons from having to chance getting pinned and possibly running away due to morale checks.

You have said a few times now that you know exactly how your games will go against Brian. Why not play some unexpected way so you don't get stuck doing the same thing over and over again?

Don't take this the wrong way but I really feel it was not necessary for you to fly straight into assult range with your FIre Dragon serpent like that. It was way too risky . Sure, they eventually got to kill the tank but what if they had failed their pinning check? Or their morale check and had to run back to your table edge?

Kudos for pulling out a win but it could very easily been a different game. I think waiting for the right moment to disembark the Fire Dragons to kill his defiler would have been better than flying straight into the jaws of them. Especially when you know that is exactly what he expected you to do . You lost a serpent for your troubles and a few melta troops. That serpent could have helped quite a bit in ramming his Rhino's to crack them open, or to shoot them in the rear, or even flat outing way across the board to eventually get rear shots on any/all of his vehicles from long range.

But that's just my view of it. Congrats on the win. Good luck in your upcoming ones.

I appreciate your post, and I thought about the same things during the game.

The reason I chose to go attack him turn 1 is simple, My Eldar army can take on armies that come against me piecemail, but if an entire army hits me at the same time, Im overwelmed and I cant deal with all the threats, which leads to war walkers getting assaulted.

The defilers are armor 12. The Vindicator is armor 13. The only things in my army that can deal with those are Fire Dragons, EML Walkers, Rear shots with Serpents.

The sooner I can get my fire dragons to their targets, the farther away they are from my walkers, and the more time I have to take on everything else.

I would also like you to look at how the game played out.
Turn 1) Stunned rhino, 2 Battle Cannons Taken off.
Turn 2) Defiler dead, Vindicator Dead, Rhino Dead.
Turn 3) Defiler Dead, Rhino Dead, 2 Princes Dead
Turn 4) 16 Marines and 3 Rhinos die
Turn 5) Noise marines mopped up
Turn 6) End

If my Fire Dragons hadnt attacked turn 2, I wouldnt of gotten the rear shot on the defiler turn 3. I also wouldnt of been able to melta a demon prince turn 3, which killed the prince. I also wouldnt of blown up 2 rhinos turn 4 with my fire dragons.

My Fire Dragons were responsible for the death of : 2 Defilers, 1 Vindicator, 3 Rhinos, 1 Demon Prince. Based on the fact that 15 Melta Guns worth 180 points killed 500+ points, I would conclude that your assesment of my fire dragon useage is wrong, and that I did in fact use them correctly.

**Roadkill Zombie**

Yes, they did help you to kill all of that.

But never forget that this is a dice game. Dice games don't always do what you want. The dice don't always roll average. Like I tried to explain to you in my first post. What would have happend if the defiler killed the serpents and one or both of your fire dragons failed either their pinning test or their morale test?

Would they then have gone on to do so well?

You took an unneccessary risk and luckily for you it paid off. That doesn't mean it is the correct way to use fire dragons, it means the dice were in your favor. Had they not been you would have seen what I mean first hand.

You played right into his hands by doing exactly what he expects. Yeah, the big nasty high armored guys could take on the war walkers without a problem. But you know as well as I do that you could have done other things to stop them from getting to your walkers without risking your fire dragons getting pinned down or chased away.

You could have disembarked them at a better time in a different turn.
You could have rammed the rear of his defilers with your Wave Serpent in a later turn.
You could have blocked movement to them with your serpents AFTER you disembarked your fire dragons.
You could have brought your walkers on a different part of the table, they do have a long range.
You could have outflanked your walkers because you already stated Brian knew what you were gonna do, so you could have done something different.

Don't get me wrong. I like reading your battle reports and seeing the nice pics of your armies in action. But it seems to me you panicked a bit about his walkers getting to yours. Your walkers can easily handle the rhinos and the guys inside. And they can do it from extremely long range.

You definitely had the tools to kill his walkers long before they got to yours. Risking the dragons like you did, while it paid off, left you with one less resource to help you ( a wave serpent ) and very well could have lost you both units of dragons. It was by pure luck of the dice why they survived at all. He could have easily blown both vehicles, killing your dragons or making them become pinned or routed.

There are too many risks there..Death, pinning, morale check...not good.

Did your tactic work? yes. Congratulations. Does that mean my assessment of your useage of them is wrong? no. Why? because while this time your risk taking served you well, the dice saw to it this time. Next time will they? who knows? You could have easily lost those fire dragons doing what you did with them and then where would you be? Would you have racked up that many kills with say 5 melta guns instead of 15? When you throw your units away like that, that's exactly what your taking a chance at doing.

There was no need to do that. You could have gotten the same results with less risk is all I'm trying to point out to you.

Anyway, like I said before, congrats. I can't wait to see more of your reports.

**Smitty0305**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Yes, they did help you to kill all of that.

But never forget that this is a dice game. Dice games don't always do what you want. The dice don't always roll average. Like I tried to explain to you in my first post. What would have happend if the defiler killed the serpents and one or both of your fire dragons failed either their pinning test or their morale test?

Would they then have gone on to do so well?

You took an unneccessary risk and luckily for you it paid off. That doesn't mean it is the correct way to use fire dragons, it means the dice were in your favor. Had they not been you would have seen what I mean first hand.

You played right into his hands by doing exactly what he expects. Yeah, the big nasty high armored guys could take on the war walkers without a problem. But you know as well as I do that you could have done other things to stop them from getting to your walkers without risking your fire dragons getting pinned down or chased away.

You could have disembarked them at a better time in a different turn.
You could have rammed the rear of his defilers with your Wave Serpent in a later turn.
You could have blocked movement to them with your serpents AFTER you disembarked your fire dragons.
You could have brought your walkers on a different part of the table, they do have a long range.
You could have outflanked your walkers because you already stated Brian knew what you were gonna do, so you could have done something different.

Don't get me wrong. I like reading your battle reports and seeing the nice pics of your armies in action. But it seems to me you panicked a bit about his walkers getting to yours. Your walkers can easily handle the rhinos and the guys inside. And they can do it from extremely long range.

You definitely had the tools to kill his walkers long before they got to yours. Risking the dragons like you did, while it paid off, left you with one less resource to help you ( a wave serpent ) and very well could have lost you both units of dragons. It was by pure luck of the dice why they survived at all. He could have easily blown both vehicles, killing your dragons or making them become pinned or routed.

There are too many risks there..Death, pinning, morale check...not good.

Did your tactic work? yes. Congratulations. Does that mean my assessment of your useage of them is wrong? no. Why? because while this time your risk taking served you well, the dice saw to it this time. Next time will they? who knows? You could have easily lost those fire dragons doing what you did with them and then where would you be? Would you have racked up that many kills with say 5 melta guns instead of 15? When you throw your units away like that, that's exactly what your taking a chance at doing.

There was no need to do that. You could have gotten the same results with less risk is all I'm trying to point out to you.

Anyway, like I said before, congrats. I can't wait to see more of your reports.

Fire Dragons are a Throw away unit, that is their purpose. Every single game you read FOR THE ENTIRE 19 games, all my fire dragons will die, or come close to dying. The best way to use Fire Dragons is to turbo boost them to something that needs to die, and kill it as fast as you can.
1) If you use them quickly theres less of a chance they will go down in your backfield.
2) IF you use them quickly your opponent is stalled.

what if I had stayed back, and battle cannons and meltas got them out of their tank, where they were then lashed into close combat and killed.

If Ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.

There are plenty of mistakes that I made during the tournament, and I will point them out, but my useage of fire dragons in game 2 was perfect and I dont see the need to critique a move that killed 500 points of enemy models.

**Roadkill Zombie**

Cute little saying you have there.

Really? Battle Cannons and Melta guns vs Wave Serpents? Are you really super concerned with that as compared to a defiler in close combat vs a wave serpent filled with T3 fire dragons with a 4+ armor save?

Your right. we could play the what if game all day. You know my view on it. It was meant to help you improve your game. Personally I believe that you could have gotten the same results with less risk without the loss of a wave serpent.

My posts weren't meant to make you angry so I'll stop trying to help you improve. You obviously are doing fine.

Again, good luck on all your future games. I'm going back to lurking now.

**BlueDagger**

Eh this is why I don't run walkers. The situation became mainly about preventing him from getting to you firebase of walkers when you could have just floated in you backfield picking off units at range. While fire dragons are usually toss it and forget the serpent isn't.

Typically you'll see from me in a situation like this fortune 2 dragon serpents and full out just out of assault range. You'll get shot to hell, but you force their hand to fire at your optimal target with double 4+ rather then the rest of your force that is plinking shota from the backfield. When it comes back to you turn the enemy has usually moved forward so you can drop the dragons to move them up 6" and fire while you move the serpents back to a safe distance.

**Smitty0305**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Cute little saying you have there.

Really? Battle Cannons and Melta guns vs Wave Serpents? Are you really super concerned with that as compared to a defiler in close combat vs a wave serpent filled with T3 fire dragons with a 4+ armor save?

Your right. we could play the what if game all day. You know my view on it. It was meant to help you improve your game. Personally I believe that you could have gotten the same results with less risk without the loss of a wave serpent.

My posts weren't meant to make you angry so I'll stop trying to help you improve. You obviously are doing fine.

Again, good luck on all your future games. I'm going back to lurking now.

I do appreciate Critique, but from years of playing Eldar I have learned that the later I use my fire dragons, the less of an impact they have. I can name off MANY scenarios where this has happened, and ive basically come to the conclusion "when in doubt, flat it out".

**Roadkill Zombie**

Smitty, I'm not debating that moving the fire dragons flat out was wrong, it wasn't. What was wrong was putting them in the charge range of a defiler that could reach them. With numerous attacks even with 6's needed to hit he's gonna get at least one, and from experience that's all they usually need.

Serpents are only armor 10 in the rear. I never get them in charge range of anything if I can help it. Much better to use Falcons for that because of the Holo Fields mitigating the damage.

What I was saying is you could have stayed out of his melee range, still had the dragons to do stuff with, and caused more damage without risking anything.

The way you played it, you basically handed him 100 points on a silver platter, and he could have had the dragons as dessert had you failed pinning. You didn't need to do that. The same results you got could have come from just staying slightly out of his assult range and then in your next turn, moving the dragons to where they needed to go.

We all know it's much harder to kill a wave serpent at range than close combat so why give them the chance?

**Iago**

Good second game. Its always fun to play a great recurring general because you both know what has to happen, this makes it all the more challenging.