Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Indeed. I was, myself, actually kind of worried that perhaps this stuff was made in China, was pretty pleased when I saw that it wasn't.

Grimtuff wrote:

ÆΞØИ wrote:

Noir wrote:

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Yes you do, because that is bull gack. Chinese knock offs aren't from GW molds.

Actually a certain amount of them are. FW produced out of China for a (very) short while and thus a lot of the knockoff FW pieces are from copied molds.

And the GW plastic kits into resins?

ÆΞØИ wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

ÆΞØИ wrote:

Noir wrote:

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Yes you do, because that is bull gack. Chinese knock offs aren't from GW molds.

Actually a certain amount of them are. FW produced out of China for a (very) short while and thus a lot of the knockoff FW pieces are from copied molds.

And the GW plastic kits into resins?

Are produced in Nottingham. They're not even produced in Memphis--yet.

Byte wrote:Wow, I touched a hot button/touchy subject. Didn't mean to.

My question about where models where produced wasn't referring to any one company. It was a general question. Why is this so stimulating?

Mostly because it is so profoundly ignorant I imagine but I could be wrong.......

To answer the OP, it saddens me and I wish they would actually see through their threats and leave the hobby. GW aren't perfect, noone claims them to be, but the constant barrage of the same crap gets pretty boring pretty quickly, and the reasonable complaints get lost under the weight of the abuse that gets hurled.

.. Or you could say that there is no smoke without fire, and that the complaints would stop if the prices were actually reasonable?

If I started posting that GW didn't make anything like enough left-handed miniatures, or that the air inside the sealed boxes of GW products was poor quality ("I don't like the smell") - then that would be an unreasonable complaint.

There are some things that GW does right: The popularization of its fantasy universes through Black Library, the easy access and gateway effect of its bricks and mortar stores (and the principle of them), the generally good quality of their plastics amongst other things. These don't generally have 'complaint' threads about them because, well, they are behaving in a way that fans are for the most part are happy with. If they made the prices of their miniatures reasonable, and in-line with their competitors, then perhaps the pricing threads (and people 'crying' about them) would stop too.

dæl wrote:To answer the OP, it saddens me and I wish they would actually see through their threats and leave the hobby. GW aren't perfect, noone claims them to be, but the constant barrage of the same crap gets pretty boring pretty quickly, and the reasonable complaints get lost under the weight of the abuse that gets hurled.

The hobby or the HHHobby?

I think you'll find GW is haemorrhaging people from the latter into a lot of other game systems out there. GW is not the be all and end all of this hobby.

Grimtuff wrote:

dæl wrote:To answer the OP, it saddens me and I wish they would actually see through their threats and leave the hobby. GW aren't perfect, noone claims them to be, but the constant barrage of the same crap gets pretty boring pretty quickly, and the reasonable complaints get lost under the weight of the abuse that gets hurled.

The hobby or the HHHobby?

I think you'll find GW is haemorrhaging people from the latter into a lot of other game systems out there. GW is not the be all and end all of this hobby.

Specifically the HHHobby.

As long as that vocal lot who are complaining and leaving are the WAAC lot too, well that's two birds with one stone.

At the end of the day it's an expensive pastime, not as expensive as others, but more so than comparable tabletop ones, but it gets boring listening to people winge and winge with nothing to add. Don't get me wrong there have been a few really good posts in this thread that articulate the problems really well but they are outnumbered by the usual BS.

brettz123 wrote:

Byte wrote:Wow, I touched a hot button/touchy subject. Didn't mean to.

My question about where models where produced wasn't referring to any one company. It was a general question. Why is this so stimulating?

Mostly because it is so profoundly ignorant I imagine but I could be wrong.......

Gee thanks Pal...

i personally couldn't care what people think about the price

i like the models, the gaming system, the paints are great( as an artist i sometimes use them on my canvuses they are that good) the story and history behind each army is brilliant and always evolving thanks to forge world and black library as well as GWs own staff.

the kits are getting better and better each time they rerelease them they are packed with extra bits. plus they take care of every aspect of the game creating terrain and boards that not only look awesome but tie into the theme that they have had through out the years, you can tell a GW model just by looking at it.

as for price going up it happens every where not just in GW its a business at the end of the day and the grumbling abut fine cast, its a relatively new process for them so there is going to be some problems but I'm sure they would get the sorted and if it was really tat bad of a cast I'm sure if i take it to my local store they would replace it for me.

and personally i hate people who use other models as stand ins for GW i spend a lot of time building and painting my armies and if some one turned up to play me with an army of non GW models in a store or gaming club i wouldn't play them but thats just me

People complained about prices ask the way back when I was playing in 2nd edition. Prices have increased by nearly 50% or more since then and the arguments are the same only GW its doing a lot better financially since then. The prices don't phase me as I don't really bed anything any more she's with the advent of EBay and my local shop selling used minis, I just don't buy a much brands new if I can help it. The same goes for privater press models. My entire army was bought second hand. No need to buy brand new models when I can save a couple out bucks on one that has been stripped or in the case of PP, never painted.

kencotter wrote:and personally i hate people who use other models as stand ins for GW i spend a lot of time building and painting my armies and if some one turned up to play me with an army of non GW models in a store or gaming club i wouldn't play them but thats just me

Why? You may be fine with the prices that Games Workshop demands for their miniatures, but many do not have the disposable income required to be capable of fielding a competent army because of them. Example: It's a hundred dollars for me to just buy a single unit of Broadsides in my army. To field a force of a fairly expected size --between 1,500 and 2,000 points-- requires several hundred dollars. Looking at the army I have now, which is made up of O'Shovah, 5 XV-8 Crisis Suit teams, 1 Stealth Suit team, 1 Broadside team, 2 Fire Warrior Squads, a Devilfish, and a Hammerhead, I'd be paying almost $900 out of pocket. And it's still not even finished at that point! If I want effective diversity I'm going to need at some Pathfinders (meaning I have to make two purchases of three of them along with a Devilfish to meet requirements), a couple Pirahnas, and some snipers, which would come out to another $200, even then leaving my army incapable of being able to utilize vespid, kroot, or Ethereal forces.

This is completely forgetting rulebooks, paints, tools, etc. For two players to be able to really tinker around with their setups and play freely under the current model, with painted models on any nice surface, the two will together probably spend a couple thousand dollars easily.

kencotter wrote:

and personally i hate people who use other models as stand ins for GW i spend a lot of time building and painting my armies and if some one turned up to play me with an army of non GW models in a store or gaming club i wouldn't play them but thats just me

I wasn't sure which one to use, but just from a change to the usual Kieth Ledger...

Just interjecting here, having not read the entire 7 pages of posts before me. To answer the OP's original question of "How does people crying about the cost of GW products affect the way you think about the products?"

There are plenty of other model companies who produce 100% accurate high quality planes and tanks like Hasegawa and Tamiya who's molds haven't changed in 20 years and their prices only rise to meet the true cost of materials. Other plastic model companies that make totally fiction stuff (think Bandai and Gundam or Robotech or Armored Core) you either get way more for the same price (colored plastics, moving joints) or a comparable model is much cheaper. Again with a very high level of detail and craftsmanship built into the model. And, to my knowledge these companies don't fleece certain countries or bitch about the cost of transport (but hell aussies and kiwis let me know if I'm wrong).

Hearing other people outcry makes me think that I'm not cheap, or crazy, or alone. I feel that GW's stuff is good, but not $50's good (100% of the time anyway). I pick up what I want, when I want, and I try and get it for as cheap as possible. It's the best I can do because I like GW because I've always liked GW.

sorry Gram didnt realise the prices in america were so high having just checked them out. i understand you guys have it bad over there a battle suit here is like £15 pound which is about $17 dollars that kinda sucks for you fellows over the water

and as for not wanting to play someone with out GW models when playing GW game system, its just that i spend the money to get my armies looking good so i expect the same from other people, saying that i dont mind people using count as in a game if they want to test out what having a diffrent unit is like before buying it

and pretty much everyone i game against game in GW stores rather than independent ones and over here they dont allow you to use other models in store.

kencotter wrote:and personally i hate people who use other models as stand ins for GW i spend a lot of time building and painting my armies and if some one turned up to play me with an army of non GW models in a store or gaming club i wouldn't play them but thats just me

I have to echo the comments from above - are you serious about this? We're not talking about an army of 'SprueCrons' or red pipe cleaners with googly eyes stuck on, we're talking about full 'counts as' armies. You have a problem with this?

kencotter wrote:
and as for not wanting to play someone with out GW models when playing GW game system, its just that i spend the money to get my armies looking good so i expect the same from other people, saying that i dont mind people using count as in a game if they want to test out what having a diffrent unit is like before buying it

Are you serious? I mean, are you actually serious when you say this?

My mind's blown. I mean, I can sort of understand the 'I can still afford it, so the price rises are ok' stuff in it's twisted logic, but this... yeesh.

infinite_array wrote:

kencotter wrote:
and as for not wanting to play someone with out GW models when playing GW game system, its just that i spend the money to get my armies looking good so i expect the same from other people, saying that i dont mind people using count as in a game if they want to test out what having a diffrent unit is like before buying it

Are you serious? I mean, are you actually serious when you say this?

My mind's blown. I mean, I can sort of understand the 'I can still afford it, so the price rises are ok' stuff in it's twisted logic, but this... yeesh.

If thats the culture of the gaming stores he decides to play at and he has adopted the same same mentality whats the big deal? He clearly states he primarily plays at GW stores. If he played at peoples houses he may be used to salt shakers and green army men. It's not that far off base. If that's the culture of your FLGS or GW outlet. We all know the answer to the GW store policy(well most of them).

Byte wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

kencotter wrote:
and as for not wanting to play someone with out GW models when playing GW game system, its just that i spend the money to get my armies looking good so i expect the same from other people, saying that i dont mind people using count as in a game if they want to test out what having a diffrent unit is like before buying it

Are you serious? I mean, are you actually serious when you say this?

My mind's blown. I mean, I can sort of understand the 'I can still afford it, so the price rises are ok' stuff in it's twisted logic, but this... yeesh.

If thats the culture of the gaming stores he decides to play at and he has adopted the same same mentality whats the big deal? He clearly states he primarily plays at GW stores. If he played at peoples houses he may be used to salt shakers and green army men. It's not that far off base. If that's the culture of your FLGS or GW outlet. We all know the answer to the GW store policy(well most of them).

C'mon - there's a major difference between 'My FLGS is a GW and I don't game at home, so most models I ever see are GW', and 'If you don't collect and play the official models then I'm either going to look down my nose at you or flat out refuse to play against you'.

Which, I'd like to point out, isn't an attitude solely within the GW community.

Byte wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

Byte wrote:Wow, I touched a hot button/touchy subject. Didn't mean to.

My question about where models where produced wasn't referring to any one company. It was a general question. Why is this so stimulating?

Mostly because it is so profoundly ignorant I imagine but I could be wrong.......

Gee thanks Pal...

You are welcome I always try to be as helpful as possible!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kencotter wrote:sorry Gram didnt realise the prices in america were so high having just checked them out. i understand you guys have it bad over there a battle suit here is like £15 pound which is about $17 dollars that kinda sucks for you fellows over the water

You may want to check exchange rates (xe.com is a very good site for this). At the current exchange rate it would cost about $23.40 not $17.

kencotter wrote:sorry Gram didnt realise the prices in america were so high having just checked them out. i understand you guys have it bad over there a battle suit here is like £15 pound which is about $17 dollars that kinda sucks for you fellows over the water

No, that's more or less equivalent when converted. £15=~$24 USD.

and as for not wanting to play someone with out GW models when playing GW game system, its just that i spend the money to get my armies looking good so i expect the same from other people, saying that i dont mind people using count as in a game if they want to test out what having a diffrent unit is like before buying it

Right, which is your prerogative. I'm not saying it shouldn't be your right to decide who you play against, but you specifically stated you hate these people. Why? Because they can't afford to spend the time and money to actually field these things? That's puzzling, to me.

It's like the folks I see --only ever in online discussion-- that state a model absolutely has to be as-is. Any equipment seen or unseen must remain that way. For a Tau army, this essentially means I am never going to be able to play in any other way than one. Who could possibly afford to follow that rule and still be able to field any kind of customizable force?

and pretty much everyone i game against game in GW stores rather than independent ones and over here they dont allow you to use other models in store.

Even though it makes sense for them to have to use their models, that still seems terribly unfriendly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kencotter wrote:sorry Gram didnt realise the prices in america were so high having just checked them out. i understand you guys have it bad over there a battle suit here is like £15 pound which is about $17 dollars that kinda sucks for you fellows over the water

Gram wrote:You may want to check exchange rates (xe.com is a very good site for this). At the current exchange rate it would cost about $23.40 not $17.

I wish they were $17.. would save me time off ebay..

Anyways, people arguing over prices doesn't bother me any, I've just been using the time not buying to do some painting, check out other game systems, and to see what kind of chaos champions i can kitbash for my LATD mini force.

It's been going surprisingly well actually.

It doesn't affect how I see the products at all, it just makes me see how people will whine and complain about just about anything and everything.

Personally I laugh at the people who keep saying they'll shelve their armies after reading a couple sentences...jeez, I'd hate to see how you react to a problem in your job where you don't have all of the information available. Just quit your job? Naaah, you'll stay. Dakka keeps growing while people make empty threats and promises.

I don't like the price hikes, I just roll with the punch that I have to curtail my purchases. The models themselves I love, very well made and mostly easy to assemble.

I just have to temper my thoughts on the interwebs to remember it is easier to be a Chicken Little with the anonymity of the net...