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H.B.M.C. wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:If they closed all the GW shops, and thus removed their major overhead, they could sell the models much, much cheaper.

If they shut down all their stores they would be reliant on various LGS to promote their product, and they’d have to start showing up to trade shows and whatnot to ‘get the news out’.

In doing so GW would have to acknowledge that they are part of the greater miniature wargaming hobby, rather than a HHHobby unto themselves. I don’t think they’re willing to do that just yet.

This.

However, I see it as the best possible move for them, at least in North America. Again, this is something that many Europeans don't seem to know, but in the US, most people play their tabletop games in independent stores, and there are loads and loads of independent shops in the US, and relatively few GWs. Furthermore, most of these GWs are one-man operations with, at best, a single table suitable for playing games on, whereas there are at least two independent stores that I've been to, and at least two that I have not, within 20 minutes of where I live that have half a dozen or more tables. There is a single GW store within that same radius. It is small and has no room to play, and obviously only carries GW products that it sells at retail price, whereas these other stores carry many different products, not just miniatures but card games, board games, and comic books.

The vast majority of American (and I would assume Canadian) players do not really use GW stores. Over the past year or so I've read about dozens of GW stores in the US closing, but I also hear about dozens opening in different locations. It seems to be madness to me. Furthermore, almost all of these stores are run by a single individual, so it's not like they can help many people at once.

If I was GW I would stop being so afraid of the competition, close all North American shops, and let the independent stores do their job. Then, since they'd be saving a ton of overhead, as these stores are usually in pricy locations (in my experience anyway), they could reduce the price of their stuff (even a little bit, say 10%) and I bet that would get TONS of former players back into the game and help attract new ones. Really, from what I've read, they have an insane profit margin on their products, but a staggering amount gets eaten by overhead costs of running these stores, stores that simply do not work in North America.

Now, to prospective stockholders who don't really understand miniature gaming, it might look bad ("You closed ALL your stores and fired a couple hundred people!?") but this can easily be explained as adapting to the market place by abandoning an outdated and costly model, I would think, and I would also think the vastly increased profits in the next IR report would help offset that.

My answer is simple.... or maybe not. And its sortof about economics.

People will always buy what they can afford if they think it is worth it. The time we have in our lives is directly exchangeable for currency. Don't believe me? when you're at work, you make money. If it were not for the money, you probably wouldnt be there. erego, you invest a portion of your life, which you otherwise wouldn't, in exchange for the currency that tends to be necessary to enjoy the remaining time in your life. If you dedicated your free time to more work, you'd make more money. We sacrifice time for the money it take to enjoy the rest of our time. This crap about money doesnt buy you happiness is... just crap. Having money won't guarantee happiness, but not having it will almost certainly guarantee UNhappiness, or starvation with a smile on your face.

That said, 40K models ARE quite expensive, when you consider the materials required to produce them. In addition to the tangible matters of physical materials, there's the factor of the incalculable amounts of man-hours it took to dream up, actually sculpt both models and ideas, and make them physical things, rather than thoughts. In the end, we all probably dump buckets more money every quarter into GW than they spend annually. But this is not the point.

As I have told many of my friends who do not play at all, it is worth it to me, so I DO buy what I can afford, when I can. The way I see it is this:

Roughly 30-60 bucks is what I'd spend at the bar any night of the week IF I went. That is roughly what it costs for the majority of the models out there. And I cant RE-drink my drinks. 40K is an investment. I enjoy taking the time to model, paint, and play armies. I gain satisfaction from many different aspects of the hobby. And all told, my monthly 40K expenditures are FAR less than what I would spend at the bar if I had nothing better to do (i.e. paint or model).

What am I trying to say? Warhammer is one of those things in which you invested time at work, to make the money, to buy the models, to enjoy in your remaining time. By all means, be aware of the prices, lest you find yourself making a POOR investment. If they are too high, and don't guarantee an equally substantial amount of happiness, then think back on this my friends:
Why would you pay 3X points for a unit, when you can spend 1X the points and get better results?

Sound familiar? We're talking about opportunity cost here people. The same thing you wrack your brain over every time a new codex drops and you're drooling like you're pants-on-head stupid trying to compile a new army list. And guess what... YOU LOVE IT. If theyre too pricey, be aware, and act in a manner that you see fit. If that means jumping ship, proceed. Those people around me that "cry" about the price, aren't wrong or right, they're investors, and list-builders the same. If you dont see the opportunity, avoid the cost. Bitch about it if you see fit. I've run the numbers, and its worth it to me in so many ways. But thats just me.

Btw, I, myself don't agree with the pricing. But there are alot of things in this world that I don't like that I can't control. I manage to sleep at night regardless. Enjoy.

On the other hand, here in the UK it's a different picture. There are more Independents opening these days, but there are still not as many as there are GWs. It's in GWs interests for the customer not to know about other companies making stuff - if a couple of kids go into a game store and look for something to start playing, which one are they most likely to choose? If the store clerk is honest, then they will get started on some kind of skirmish game that requires less initial expenditure to get started.

It's why you get a load of new users on Dakka every week who come here I think largely unaware that there is a larger wargaming industry out there beyond the big GW. Their reaction is then either:
a) Wow those other models are cool, I might try those as well.
b) They get all defensive and go into a rage, usually after someone has applied a needle to the edge of the GW-world bubble. Hopefully, they calm down enough to not get banned.

If GW closes its stores it will lose the one big draw and big advantage it has over the competition, which is the ability to give the impression of something close to a monopoly to new customers. Arguably they enjoy less of an advantage now than they have done for at least the last 15 years or so, with the wealth of new games being released constantly, but it is an important advantage nonetheless.

Daedricbob wrote:If they closed all the GW shops, and thus removed their major overhead, they could sell the models much, much cheaper.
Would this be a good thing?

Absolutely... In my area there are no actual GWs (well their national HQ is across the state from me) in my area... At one shop I frequent, they have more non-GW game nights/days than they do GW games. In talking to the guy when I was there earlier this week, he was tellin' me how at least in their little shop, they have seen an "explosion" of games alternate to 40k or Fantasy, and as of yet he doesn't know why. I suggested that perhaps it was the prices that GW are asking for their products.

My wife and I are both gamers, we by and large budget for minis, paints and rule books, etc. With this most recent price increase, I told her that I'd be no longer getting any GW minis (even at discount rates), I'll only be going for the codices and rule books to keep my game current... And with that, I looked for alternative games out there.... We just started playing Malifaux, and when the minis get here, I'll be trying out Hell Dorado, and Infinity.... Yes, there are ways of making wargaming less expensive than it could be, but for the standard "shop sized" games that GW has "balanced" for, 40k has become largely unreasonable for me to continue to support.


As for the OP, the only "influence" others have had was when I looked in the Dakka Discussions page and saw a thread announcing that the GW price increase had come.. I didn't even read the thread until after I had gone to the GW website to see for myself.

RatBot wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:

Of course the only thing is that most 40k armies you need many many times more models that gaming systems such as Infinity (unless you play GK of course). But this is about the only issue and if you want small Infinity sized games then you can equally play 500-750 point 40k games for the same price with some 40k armies.

Argh, feth me, I should really just have this friggin saved in a word file every time someone brings up this argument:

GW games aren't designed or balanced around such small match ups. It's designed and balanced around ~1500 point armies. If you play the games the way they're designed, using the models created for the games, Games Workshop is ultimately more expensive.

No it's not. The majority of games I encounter are 1000 points. Anything over 2000 points I find a real drag and don't think the game is designed for anything over that unless you want to play Apocalypse.

Sure, 500-750 point games are not all that exciting to say the least, but it seems you and other people seem to want GW to provide 50-60 models so you can play your 1000+ point games at the same price as 10 Infinity models. That is never going to happen. What actually do you want from them?

deggreg@yahoo.com wrote:it makes me proud that I'm part of a hobby that values it's products and intellectual property properly.

To me it's like wanting a steak. I can go to Mortons and get an awesome Prime Rib for $60 and if I can afford it, I'll get my moneys worth. If you can't afford the steak, then you are going to argue that The Sizzler's $9.99 steak is just as good and that Mortons is overpriced and how dare they charge so much for beef. Bottom line, it's better quality..prepared by better chefs...and the experience is better.

That's GW, yes...it's a $60 steak....but man, it tastes pretty good and if you can afford it...it's worth every penny.

When people complain about how expensive GW is, I tell them how much it is to fill up my Ford Truck...it's the price of a battleforce. I'll eat that Mortons steak every day of the week TBH.

QFT

and how many points worth of models do you need for a decent game? 40k Requires quite a bit more points, which translates into quite a bit more purchases. There is also a cost-to-effect ratio...

I already covered this in my original post so you wasted your time arguing when I agree with you...

you honestly think GW tanks are superior in quality?

Yes I do. If not in quality then I prefer the look of them. Simple as that. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes then that kind of proves that there is sometimes a degree of pretentiousness amongst those that constantly like to bitch about GW and talk up 'alternative' gaming systems like Infinity. It's the same as those god awful 'indie kids'. I'm not saying you are necessarily guilty of this so don't be offended, but I feel a lot of people are.

On a side note If you have found anything superior or equal that I could use for my IG armoury then please do link me as I am always looking for models.

Key word here is some not all, and even then, the armies available to you with the kind of budget we are talking of are entirely non-competitive. A space marine army maxed out at 500 points consists of two tac squads and a captain. The AOBR kit at L61.50 + tac squad at L23.00 makes a total of L84.50, and you're still without a codex. WM with rulebook runs you L80.95.... I really don't understand where you are getting your numbers from.

Yes some not all. Again you seem to expect that prices should be equal all round for every army not matter how many models an army needs. It's not like you don't have a choice on what army to collect. You could easily collect Grey Knights (15 models can make a 1000 point list easily) if you were that bothered about pricing. The fact is you have a choice in 40k to build big armies (IG, Orks etc) or small ones (GK, SM). In infinity you don't, so it's a bit pointless comparing them. If you want a game with only 10 models then you can play Infinity or one of the 'alternative' systems. Your choice.
What do you want GW to do? Reduce every 40k army to 10 models too? That is hardly fair.

Of course then you have the numerous shops selling all GW products brand new at 25% discounts. It's not as if these are a rarity. Ebay is even better. And second hand is wonderfully cheap.

Honestly the reason I don't bitch very much is because I have opted to go with ebay and the online stores that offer 25%+ discounts and so get everything much cheaper with MINIMUM EFFORT. Even paint stripping is remarkably easy.

I don't get why people who cry about GW prices don't just do the same.

so if GW prices are worse all around, and the quality is worse all around, then, logically speaking, the gripe is justified, because GW keeps feeding the market it's excrement telling everyone it's gourmet chocloate. The fact is that since GW opened up the market, other's have entered after it, and their quality of product is better, more affordable and better planned out. Further, GW's systems are utterly and entirely unbalanced. GW will always have a following comprised entirely of whiners because it advertises to kids, punts out the old loyal diehards and mistreats them as customers, and makes it hard for kids to keep playing by pushing the prices up so high.

No offence, but i've heard this ALL before back in the 90's when I first got into 40k, every criticism was the same. Yet GW got bigger than I ever imagined it would by the time I started playing it again last year. If it was that unbalanced it would've collapsed during those 15-20 years.

except that the consumer market is waking up, and getting very irate at the fact that there are so many other games, manufacturers and systems out there which match or exceed GW for price and quality. The consumers are irate with the fact that while they would like to stay with GW, GW's behavior, pricing or antics are not matched by any other company on the market, which is in effect pushing the customer base flying to other companies.

Again, heard it all before decades ago: "The prices are too high and the consumer base is getting so pissed off that they will go elsewhere" etc etc.

Ultimately as I have said I am by no means saying GW are perfect: Finecast problems, paint is overpriced etc. And people have every right to complain about this.
But I recognise that it is a luxury product and I recognise that I have a CHOICE to buy discount models, second hand models, or even switch to an alternative gaming system like Infinity if I want too. I am a 28 year old student and pretty broke all the time, but the fact is I have the choice to make it much more affordable and it's with minimal effort that I can do this.

FifteenHours wrote:

RatBot wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:

Of course the only thing is that most 40k armies you need many many times more models that gaming systems such as Infinity (unless you play GK of course). But this is about the only issue and if you want small Infinity sized games then you can equally play 500-750 point 40k games for the same price with some 40k armies.

Argh, feth me, I should really just have this friggin saved in a word file every time someone brings up this argument:

GW games aren't designed or balanced around such small match ups. It's designed and balanced around ~1500 point armies. If you play the games the way they're designed, using the models created for the games, Games Workshop is ultimately more expensive.

No it's not. The majority of games I encounter are 1000 points. Anything over 2000 points I find a real drag and don't think the game is designed for anything over that unless you want to play Apocalypse.

Sure, 500-750 point games are not all that exciting to say the least, but it seems you and other people seem to want GW to provide 50-60 models so you can play your 1000+ point games at the same price as 10 Infinity models. That is never going to happen. What actually do you want from them?

Your local meta sounds very different from the rest of the world. I used to live in upstate New York. 1500-2000 point games were the norm. Here in LA, it seems 1500 to 2000 point games are the norm. I don't have the rulebook on me, but I could've sworn up and down it mentions 1500 point games as ideal.



I never said anything about games bigger than 2000 points, and I never said I want them to provide me a 40K army at Infinity prices.


Why is it Mantic can sell miniatures at about half the price of GW miniatures?

I've even priced it out, 4 Undead Characters, 50 Zombies, 80 Skeletons (60 Normal and 20 "elite"), and 10 Cavalry for about $250 compared to GW's $450. I'd buy GW minis by the truckload if they were similarly priced. EDIT: Actually, 60 Zombies.

This whole argument makes no sense.

40k/GW offers a gaming system that offers the consumer the chance to collect armies that has hundreds of models, if they can afford it. But it also offers armies that are smaller and more affordable. It's your choice.

Infinity offers a gaming system that offers small 10 model armies and there is no option to field ridiculously large armies.

Why did you start playing 40k if you didn't like the prices? It's kind of akin to someone buying cocaine and then complaining about the prices. "Oh, but I like it too much to stop buying it. How unfair!" ... Or someone buying a computer game and then complaining about the fact you need to buy a memory upgrade for your computer to get the absolute best graphics out of it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

RatBot wrote:Your local meta sounds very different from the rest of the world. I used to live in upstate New York. 1500-2000 point games were the norm. Here in LA, it seems 1500 to 2000 point games are the norm. I don't have the rulebook on me, but I could've sworn up and down it mentions 1500 point games as ideal..

Rest of the world being "Not America"? Psh...Come on...

Actually I have noticed on Vassal 40k the American's on there seem to prefer higher points games compared to Europeans. No idea why that is or if there is any actual truth to it statistically. But each to their own, it depends what games you enjoy. Just because it recommends 1500 point games doesn't necessarily mean that any less or more is worse or better.

....because when I started an army cost about half as much as it does now.

And fething hell, I mentioned Infinity ONCE. Enough about fething Infinity.

Fine, let's compare to a company with a similar model of "large numbers of plastic models", Mantic:

2000 points of GW Vampire Counts might be something like
-a Vampire Lord ($18)
-a BSB, ($19)
-a Necromancer ($15).
From Mantic, I can get a four pack of characters for $30.

-~60 Zombies. $105 from GW. $80 from Mantic
-~2x30 Skeletons $148.50 from GW $75 from Mantic.
-20 Grave Guard. $82.50 from GW. $25 from Mantic.
-10 Black Knights. $66 from GW. $45 from Mantic.

TOTAL: $465 from GW. $255 from Mantic.

THAT'S what I want from GW. Hell, it could even be more expensive than Mantic. But not almost 50% more expensive.

EDIT: Apologies, only skimmed over name and flag and got yours mixed up with someone else, dunno what the UK meta looks like.

I'll do that entire list again in GBP, if you'd like. I'll do it even if you wouldn't.


2000 points of GW Vampire Counts might be something like
-a Vampire Lord (9.50GBP)
-a BSB, (11GBP)
-a Necromancer (9GBP)
From Mantic, I can get a four pack of characters for 18GBP.

-~60 Zombies. 82.50GBP from GW. 67.50GBP from Mantic
-~2x30 Skeletons 93GBP from GW 42GBP from Mantic.
-20 Grave Guard. 51GBP from GW. 14GBP from Mantic.
-10 Black Knights. 40GBP from GW. 25GBP from Mantic.

TOTAL: 296GBP from GW. 166.50GBP from Mantic.

I'm willing to bet that if you levelled the playing field 100% in terms of price and customer bases, GW would still sell more than its contemporaries.

From what I read in the forums it's like people believe they got to the top through sheer luck.

Price rises just remind many of us that we can't have everything we want right now, that's all. I'd like 3 dreadnoughts immediately, it doesn't make GW a load of c***s because I can't afford them immediately.

Look, if you prefer Mantic models and honestly think they are of equal or superior quality or just plain prefer them to GW, more power to you and i'm genuinely glad you are happy with Mantic etc.

I have personally not seen anything that tops or equals a model like say the Ork Warboss, but if you are happy then fine.

I have basically found a way to cut costs of 40k that are acceptable for me. I managed to build a 2000 point IG army for about 200 quid. That to me is not bad at all. Sure, some are second hand but with minimal effort you wouldn't know it.
I personally do not feel the Corporation Army models in Mantic - for example - come anywhere near the quality of Imperial Guard.

They are as 'boxy' as a motherf*cker : http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Corporation/Product/Corporation-Heavy-Weapons-Teams-6-Figures.html

Price: £17.50

Compare that to Heavy Weapons squad from GW: £24.00

Then compare that to a shop offering 25% off, which are EVERYWHERE: £18.00

There is hardly any difference and honestly I feel in this case GW product wins hands down in cost-value-quality. Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

I used Mantic for some VC stand-ins and the models made me feel a little empty inside. No variety, cheap-feeling, arrived in an old VHS box and fixed to the base. It's definitely sub-AOBR

Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I said "almost 50% more expensive". Almost 50% quite literally means that it isn't quite 50%. It's a bit less than 50%. That is decidedly not "50%+".

Those 154 GW models are, all together, almost 50% more expensive than the equivalent 154 Mantic models are all together. Even with a 25% discount, the GW models are, total, still ~25% more expensive. If you feel that GW's models are so much better than Mantic's that you're willing to pay ~25% more for them, then more power to you, I guess.

lol okay mate, "almost 50%".

If you want to take the models with the biggest price gap to pad up your statistics then go ahead.

I am willing to pay 30% more? No you see, because I pay 0.50p more for my brand-new models (so about 1%), not 30%.

That said, I would pay 30% more if it came down to it, because they are 30% better. As Davylove21 points out Mantic are (in this case at least) an inferior product.

Yeah. I can most definitely live with that.

I just find it sad because if people put as much effort into protesting about prices of things we actually need to survive as human beings that they do into complaining about GW prices the world would probably be a slightly better place. Or not.

Nonsense, if I really wanted to pad the numbers, I'd've taken Blood Knights or something. I simply took the models I'd use in a theoretical VC army and their Mantic equivalents. It is a cold hard fact that the retail cost of the Mantic army is a bit more than half of the GW army.

As for padding, I could level a similar charge against you, that you are deliberately cherry-picking models where the gap is much smaller. That's why I figured the best way to do it is to compare an army of mantic miniatures vs a similar army of GW miniatures, and the total cost at retail thereof.

Are Black Knights and Grave Guard completely unused? Is there some magic away around the fact that GW skeletons come 10 to a box for a bit less than $25 retail and Mantic skeletons come 20 to a box for $25?

And if you really think GW models are so much better that they're worth 30% more, I'm certainly not going to convince you that they aren't any more than you're gonna convince me they are.

The fact still remains: by the time you've completed your army, the Mantic miniatures are significantly cheaper than the GW miniatures.

Okay well whatever, I chose to use the heavy weapon squads because I collect IG and it was the first price comparison I looked at.

You are right we could sit here all day and price compare - some are 50% higher, some are 30% and some are undoubtedly equal.

For me at least it seems to be between 1-30% price difference. For me at least that is acceptable because for me the quality is generally better. And for me that is the end of discussion, since my original point has been proven that people tend to exaggerate the price differences between GW and alternative systems.

EDIT: You know what? I was gonna leave it alone. If you think that GW models really are worth 30% than Mantic's, that's fine, that's your opinon.

But you had to sneak this in here:

my original point has been proven that people tend to exaggerate the price differences between GW and alternative systems.

So allow me to retort:
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/kings-of-war/undead.html

Oh look! Ten Skeletons for 12 USD, whereas with GW, even at the same discount, would cost $18.

And here's your heavy weapon team!
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/mancpc231.html

Sure, it retails for only $1.50 less then the GW one discounted, but TA DA! Here it is at only $22, which is about $7 less than a discounted GW one!

"Oh, but that's only one webstore!" you may snort. And yes, that's only one webstore. Here's a second:
http://www.thewarstore.com/product71576.html

And another:
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=mtc_wpt_cpn_spt_101_000

So yes, there IS a serious discrepancy between GW and Mantic prices.

Why the hell do people think that the discount web stores apply to GW somehow magically ONLY applies to GW products?

So my original point has been proven that pretty much every other tabletop game is, overall, cheaper than GW, and people will go to great lengths to justify GW's outrageous prices.

Again, I don't doubt you really feel that GW's miniatures are worth the cost. That's your opinion, and it's fine. But don't act like there's no difference between the cost of playing GW games and the cost of playing other games, even games on the same scale.

you know i forgot about Kngs of WAR i was following them on beastofwar for a long time and jsut forgot about it but after looking at the minis they are quiet nice anyone whos played the game? if you do or have if you could pm me about how it was or is i would much appreciated it might be something id liek to give a go 141 model starter box for the undead army for 100 bucks easily gets my attention with how well the sculpts look thanks!

I've never played the game, and TBH it doesn't look all that interesting, but you could always use the models to play WHFB.

FifteenHours wrote:And for me that is the end of discussion, since my original point has been proven that people tend to exaggerate the price differences between GW and alternative systems.

Proven? Ok.

And in any case, the people who usually point that out often conveniently forget that not every system requires as much stuff as 40K.

So while you may have two similar models that cost a similar price from two different companies, if the one game requires 10 of them in a unit and the other one only 5, then that’s what should be looked at.

RatBot wrote:I've never played the game, and TBH it doesn't look all that interesting, but you could always use the models to play WHFB.

thats a shame was hoping it would be neat to break up the 40k and fantasy im still gonna find a store that plays it and check it out though wouldnt cost alot to get a army for it and models are nice enough the painting is largely why i like these games have built models my whole life

Well, you can always buy the models just to paint them.

And like I said, I've never played the game. Appearances can be deceiving, it might actually be lots of fun.

FifteenHours wrote:
There is hardly any difference and honestly I feel in this case GW product wins hands down in cost-value-quality. Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

Actually you both are calculating the price difference wrong, GW is 82.4% more expensive.

Mantic being 255 and GW 465

465-255=210

210/255=0.8235 (etc)

Mantic costs a bit over half as much would be the proper way to phrase if that's what you were going for.

Just a quick post.
Yes that actualy happened.(But I exagerated the level of tears,and paraphrased a bit. )

AFAIK the KoW rules set and army lists are free to download, from Mantic.
The rules only run to a dozen pages, and take less than an hour to learn fully.

(We just tried out a few games with proxies/cardboard bases, and liked the clean and elegant rules design.)

We dont bother with the 'chess clock' but tend to play more senario driven games.But the level of game ballance and internal consistancy make playing narrative or competative play pleasing ....In our experiance.

And if you buy Army Deals from Mantic, including minatures made from plastic,white metal and plastic-resin ,(like 'Finecast' but without the quality problems! )The average £99 deal has between 100 and 140 minatures!

If you dont like Mantics minatures asthetic fair enough.(Its totaly subjective.)

Surtur wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:
There is hardly any difference and honestly I feel in this case GW product wins hands down in cost-value-quality. Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

Actually you both are calculating the price difference wrong, GW is 82.4% more expensive.

Mantic being 255 and GW 465

465-255=210

210/255=0.8235 (etc)

Mantic costs a bit over half as much would be the proper way to phrase if that's what you were going for.

...You, sir, are correct. Makes it seem even more ludicrous.

But Surtur, he totally proved That GW actually costs about the same as Mantic, because everyone knows that because you can get GW at 25% off retail, their prices are reasonable, especially because you can't get Mantic at 25% off from those very same retailers.

Oh. Wait. Yes you can.

So, fine, that GW army, using said retailers, is something closer to $350 (348.75), and the Mantic one closer to $200 (191.25). Practically the same price, right!? I'm also clearly padding the numbers by using commonly used units in an army that, IIRC from my WHFB days, is not exactly uncommon.

Ratbot, you have made your point but there is no need to drive the guy's face into it. It's not very becoming of you..

FifteenHours wrote:
Price: £17.50

Compare that to Heavy Weapons squad from GW: £24.00

Then compare that to a shop offering 25% off, which are EVERYWHERE: £18.00

There is hardly any difference and honestly I feel in this case GW product wins hands down in cost-value-quality. Even without the 25% discount it isn't 50%+ more expensive than you are making out.

Did you know there are discount sellers for Mantic products when you made that post?

And yes I guess OP's thread title is pretty effective,
I wonder how many seconds before ban and deletion if I made a thread called " How does people white knighting GW pricing effect you etc etc"

The one thing that bothers me is how bias the world is. The price... not so much.
Even I think GW prices are justified ( yes its expensive, but people are still buying it. )

lol to be honest now this thread has just made me hate people that moan about GW pricing...

Bunch of middle-class kids moaning about the cost of their shiny little pieces of metal (or plastic) while billions live in desperate poverty... Please, get some perspective.

Then why waste time complaining about those who complain about trivial things instead of going out and helping those people?