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2012/06/29 23:33:14
Subject: Re:What playable faction do you dislike the most?
it's the 41st millenium, there are millions of worlds, with tons and tons of alien races. You have Tyranids aliens, robot aliens (ROBOTS!), and Orks (ORKS!) And the limit of your science fiction creative imagination is...ahem......humans in suits?! are.you.freaking.kidding.me.
That's what does it for you? Genetically mutated and modified humans in space suits. In space. Ruh ruh really?! Self-righteous do-gooders serving some pretentious emperor in space. Yeah, a dead honey badger has a more vivid imagination.
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Exactly what part of "sci-fi" did some of these SM players get?! They should have their own game, devoid of alien worlds and races. Call it "Sporkhammer 20th Century". Tangtastic.
I think a big appeal of space marines is how much easier they are to connect to compared to say, tyranids, dark eldar, or orks. While in a lot of ways marines are inhuman, and what they do often isnt good, its a human survival thing. Take a more extreme chapter, the flesh tearers. Their bloodthirsty rampages are very hard to relate to, and a lot of their story isnt something people can directly relate to. I have never gone on a rampage, nor did I grow up in some extremely harsh jungle environment. But the idea that marines are the very best of humanity, both in intellect and physical prowess is there. And these people, in the process of becoming a Flesh Tearer, sacrifice any hope of having a happy, normal life, and will basically die in an extremely violent fashion after a life of warfare, is something they accept to keep the rest of humanity safe. With this though, comes an extreme variation of the curse of sanguinus.
This in a lot of ways is a tragedy, and its easier to relate to than say, a hive mind insect collective that seeks to devour worlds. Narcissistic aliens who seek to dominate everyone else by inflicting extreme amounts of pain, and are addicted to sensual stimuli. Or fungus that naturally wants to fight and has a simple tribal social order. The reason a lot of people, particularly newer people who arent so familiar with the total fluff pick marine armies is because they are easier to relate to in a personal way than the xenos ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBeivizzsPc
2012/06/30 07:50:00
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
I don't think SM's are easy to relate to, I think it taps into a vein of hyper machismo, especially in the Geek community, like superheroes (most of us are more like Sheldon Cooper than like Chuck Norris). The Super-Human astartes that can do everything we cannot. They run around in a giant suit of armour and kick alien ass and taking names, that have their entire innards re-arranged with new organs and capabilities. They are taller, stronger, with great endurance and metabolisms than any other human that has ever lived. They carry 20mm personal weapons that fire Rocket Propelled rounds in automatic fire, more like an IFV gun system. They appeal to the Inner child that want's to run around stomping everything with no parents to say "No".
They also wield Claymore Swords like daggers.... I cannot really relate to a Monastic Cult of Warriors with Hyper abilities but they are pretty cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/30 07:51:25
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2012/06/30 07:54:12
Subject: Re:What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Sniff wrote:Exactly what part of "sci-fi" did some of these SM players get?! They should have their own game, devoid of alien worlds and races. Call it "Sporkhammer 20th Century". Tangtastic.
Yeah, it's not like sci fi classics involved humans in powered armour fighting space insects.
In support of mwnciboo's viewpoint:
This is a post from BOLS on Matt Ward: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=205959&postcount=17 The tl;dr is that GK were designed with beginners in mind, in particular young males new to the hobby. (Apologies to any GK players who don't fit that description). A pertinent line about their fluff is "As older gamers, of course we can see it for the painful narm it is, but that's because they aren't written for us."
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
-Norman Schwartzkopf
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2012/06/30 09:38:51
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
I just dislike the space marines in general, all of tthem, I mean GW could have mmade one ridiculously OP army, but then they thought 'nah lets make five of them' . Their fluff is so repeditive, its all just so boring to play against.
I do have to admit though, when i fist got the battle of macragge starter I collected marines, the most vanilla marines you could get, the smurfs.
"Your friends can't save you now, they are hanging from the spires, just as you will be, should you fail."- kabal of the broken blade.
2012/06/30 15:08:52
Subject: Re:What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Sniff wrote:Exactly what part of "sci-fi" did some of these SM players get?! They should have their own game, devoid of alien worlds and races. Call it "Sporkhammer 20th Century". Tangtastic.
Yeah, it's not like sci fi classics involved humans in powered armour fighting space insects.
That's the funny part about people who cry about Space Marines, in general. Originally the game was really supposed to be a miniatures/RPG hybrid. Everything in 40K has more or less existed solely for Space Marines to kill, since the beginning days of the game. It was only later that the game was evolved to more intelligently market the xenos forces and make them more desirable. Which is a good thing, because that's what allowed 40K to prosper and for the models and such to be as nice as they are today. But hating Space Marines is sorta silly. The Space Marines have five "armies" because they sell more models than all the other armies. Ultimately, the Space Marines are what make 40K iconic. Without Space Marines there is no 40K.
And hating the Space Marines for being the most popular faction is really just hating human nature. People root for the local sports team because they can identify with them. People like Space Marines because they are big, awesome, human guys. People don't identify as often with Dark Eldar because they aren't angry, sadistic elves. I mean, there's a whole psychoanalytical discussion here I'm not gonna touch with a ten foot pole where we can hypothesize about why players choose what army.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Tyranids - with their rediculous bs "give us a couple of days and we'll adapt to whatever circumstance" background. They should just be monstrous space ants without any psychic ability or other such nonsense.
Also, almost their entire freaking miniatures line has their tongue sticking out, which looks incredibly stupid on the table.
and
Sisters of Battle - who I simply believe are not worthy of being a stand-alone codex/force in the 40K universe.
In the end I chose SoB.
Just my opinion of course. Feel free to disagree.
2012/07/01 20:05:48
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
I've only recently started playing recently but I've found that I don't really like the Tau and the Tyranids. The Tau lore and shootiness I'm not a fan of and I hate genestealers :p
6th Edition battle record 2-0-1
2012/07/04 22:11:14
Subject: Re:What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Sniff wrote:Exactly what part of "sci-fi" did some of these SM players get?! They should have their own game, devoid of alien worlds and races. Call it "Sporkhammer 20th Century". Tangtastic.
Yeah, it's not like sci fi classics involved humans in powered armour fighting space insects.
That's the funny part about people who cry about Space Marines, in general. Originally the game was really supposed to be a miniatures/RPG hybrid. Everything in 40K has more or less existed solely for Space Marines to kill, since the beginning days of the game. It was only later that the game was evolved to more intelligently market the xenos forces and make them more desirable. Which is a good thing, because that's what allowed 40K to prosper and for the models and such to be as nice as they are today. But hating Space Marines is sorta silly. The Space Marines have five "armies" because they sell more models than all the other armies. Ultimately, the Space Marines are what make 40K iconic. Without Space Marines there is no 40K.
And hating the Space Marines for being the most popular faction is really just hating human nature. People root for the local sports team because they can identify with them. People like Space Marines because they are big, awesome, human guys. People don't identify as often with Dark Eldar because they aren't angry, sadistic elves. I mean, there's a whole psychoanalytical discussion here I'm not gonna touch with a ten foot pole where we can hypothesize about why players choose what army.
thats why i dropped my Dark Eldar and went with tyranidsi got tired of the ARRRR WE ARE PIRATES
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/05 01:32:28
Subject: Re:What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Grey Knights... to me their just a boring looking army. I have nothing against anyone who plays them I just have little to no interest in a shiny silver army....
2012/07/05 03:23:10
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
grey knights are cool because to me they are the meaning of daemon killing super humans. Plus i love paladins, but i do see were you are coming from.
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/05 21:17:19
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
I wish someone would actually do a good Grey Knight Paint job in Grey rather than "Look at the Shiny, Shiny".
I think this is my favourite model of all time. Imagine a Grey Knight army done in this style.
Or maybe like this
If someone did this for their entire army, I would respect their choice on aesthetic grounds.
Otherwise it's Uber-Cheese choice, because it so generic and dull. Playing GK's is like sending an SAS Squadron to fight a conscript Platoon, so over the top it's almost ridiculous.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/05 21:19:34
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2012/07/06 01:45:13
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
guyperson5 wrote:Dark Eldar because: Drugs+Psycho=BS4???
Sadism and drug use does not equal psychotic. I don't think a single Dark Eldar (in the codex fluff) is psychotic, unless I missed the part where a DE has a mental breakdown and starts hallucinating. Dark Eldar to top-tier warriors, and considering they have to kill to live, if their skills wane they might as well just kill themselves.
2012/07/10 21:02:12
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
the pirate duke/serpent guy is a bit nuts but even he is somewhat normal.
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/11 09:41:13
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2012/07/11 17:42:19
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
whats the deal with dark eldar. how about noise marines they are disguisting.
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/11 20:52:26
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
i mean dark eldar look sleek with noise marines while i like them in some regards look dumb.
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/11 23:52:00
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Black Templars are the best Space Marine Chapter out of all the Space Marines. They are the most fanatical marines out there. They are on an endless, eternal crusade for the god emperor. AND they get in the face of the enemy. Thats the way to get things done.
i like them, wont look deeper into them until they get a battlefarce
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/12 04:17:03
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
Stormtrooper520 wrote:What's with the hate on Grey Knights?
Some pretty bad fluff for starters.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2012/07/12 08:28:53
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
And, some people like the fluff, i am a fan of the catholic church and of the inquistion so in my book while it is not great it is a fun read. I think the ork and space wolves fluff is boring but thats just me
Wherever and whenever they appear they leave only destruction in their wake; they are the Lords of Death, Bringers of War. The Dark Angels.
Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the light until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!- Helen Keller
2012/07/12 13:17:33
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
I know this is from a while ago but I just had to reply.
Ailaros wrote:I'm actually going to say blood angels on this one as well.
On the one hand, I dislike them because they don't deserve their own codex. Their models are just marines. The units they can take have shocking overlap with the marine codex. They're just red marines.
So? Dark Angels are just Green Marines, Black Templars are just Black Marines, etc, etc. In fact the Blood Angels have more differences in them than all the other marine chapters. Blood Angels get unique units like Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests, Baal Predators, Librarian Dreadnoughts & Furioso Dreadnoughts. Thats a lot more different than you'll find in the Dark Angels book.
On the other hand, those things that are different are absurd. You don't get to move and shoot all the weapons on your non-skimmer tank... unless you're blood angels. You can't transport a vehicle inside of another (non-drop-pod) vehicle... unless you're blood angels. You don't get to deepstrike land raiders, that's absurd... unless you're blood angels. The list goes on and on of things that are so fundamentally different that it really makes me wonder if we're playing the same game here. There are core rules that every army needs to follow, the BA just seem to ignore, and for no good reason either.
We have faster vehicles because we have the Lucius pattern engine, we are not the only ones who can put a dreadnought in a Stormraven (Grey Knights can as well), the deep striking Land Raiders are coming from Thunderhawks dropping them off. Yes, we get some things different from other chapters but thats whats going to happen. We are a different chapter. You don't see me complaining about how we don't get Thunderfire Cannons.
Nothing special with their models, bland, OTT, warporn fluff that breaks some of the basic fluff principles of the game (here's looking at you, necron), and then on top of this, you add a bunch of free upgrades and nonsensical rules abridgements. More than any army, BA, as it currently exists, least belongs in the world of 40k.
The Necron thing wasn't exactly a team up. It was two opposing forces putting their differences aside to take on a bigger threat. At the end of they day they went their separate ways because of battle exhaustion. Other armies also get a ton of stuff they can have for free. Have you seen the Space Wolf Codex? Their squads get free weapons as well and also their devs can have more than four heavy weapons.
As for models, well I really like the look of The Sanguinary Guard. I think they are some really good looking models.
Roll them back into codex marines, with dante as a special character that unlocks death company with a chapter tactic of black rage, and the 40k universe would be able to heal a little.
That'll be the day I quit 40k and I bet a lot of other Blood Angel players will do the same.
2012/07/12 13:37:09
Subject: What playable faction do you dislike the most?
[Thunderfire Cannons? What? A Vehicle that be destroyed by a Glance? ]
So what? You'll Rage quit if your Chapter gets a well deserved nerf? So you cannot see why all other SM players get a bit miffed at the BA's? I mean FAST TANKS? So they have the Lucius Engine, think about it, who would have that the white scars, maybe even the Iron Hands, but no lets give the BA a further (not required) buff.
GWHQ Discussing BA CODEX - "Oh lets give them 2 Predator Variants no-one else can have, and a special deployment type. Oh and some Uber powered CHaracters, and lets make some them in two variants normal, and Black rage. Lets then break the whole thing by having stupidly Uber-powered Snippy - Snippy Dreadnoughts, have we finished? Nah lets keep going, lets have Razorback Spamming, so they can be super-fast, super assaulty and super-mechanised, led by super-characters. Finished yet? .....Nah not yet, let's throw in that Vehicle we are working on for the GK Codex, yeah they need an edge. Opps OMG totally Forgot, these guys won't be very survivable will they? Lets give them lots of FNP options. "
Seriously I have barely scratched the surface, and you will rage quit if they nerf you slightly? I think you should be a bit more rational and objective when looking at your Codex.
EDIT [Thunderfire Cannons? What? A Vehicle that be destroyed by a Glance? You really want them have them, I'll swap all special rules for a Thunderfire ]
Bringing it back slightly more centre, I've gotta say lucky the Black Templars didn't see the BA holding hands with the 'Frakking Toasters because Baal would have been cleansed by righteous Zeal.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/07/12 13:43:16
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