BRE-PONY-A vs OGRES - Crossroads 2014 Spring Break Round Two

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**meaples**

Came here for ponies, was not disappointed. Was expecting a conversion based army though. After reading 6 pages of arguments, both sides do raise fair points regarding the issue.

I'd side with the fact that this was a GT and although work was put in to make the OP's army, a conversion would probably have been a better course of action.

On the other hand, it would depend on how much of a serious crowd this GT had. Personally, I'd love to play against armies like this and have no personal qualms about playing any other themed armies. Even nazi themed ones so as long as the player doesn't take the role-playing to that level. While WYSWYG is an issue debated here, I'd be more inclined to believe that if everything could be ID'ed in my opponents army without much problems, then no harm no foul.

Red sports fair points on tournament ruling which I'd say is fair game. However, it also depends how serious a stance someone in the GT would want to take with it. Refusing to play someone else and straight up calling TO's to auto-lose someone because of the army they brought is fair enough if they did break tournament rules but it makes you "that guy" or at least close to one. It is a game after all but I can understand that some can lose the hype/will to play because they paid for a tournament expecting standards.

As for my hardline stance on the issue.
a) Would probably have a slight issue that toys were used instead of toy/conversion to make it look somewhat bretannic. Even knights mounted on the ponies painted in usual colours would make it much more enjoyable. Plus points for painting knights in their respective pony colours.

b) Would love to play it and any other themed ( silly or not ) army.

c) In the end, it is a game of grown men playing with little plastic toys ( resin or metal in addition ) so taking steps to purposely ruin another players day is totally silly. Taking a purist view is understandable as well although I'd rather use that focus/determination to make my army look as best I can.

d) GT's could hold a survey at the next event to see whether people genuinely had a problem with this and to see if more "fun" armies could be introduced in future events. Sure, WHFB is serious ( if you like it that way ) but some people do come to tournaments, even GT's with the intent of having fun first and foremost. Of course, this should not be totally uncontrolled but 1-2 "unique" armies are sure to brighten the mood in tournaments like this. I would be very interested to see the survey results on this just to know how serious WHFB is for the general community.

**Anvildude**

Armour could have been a cool conversion, at least.

**Sihdhartha**

I'd play against it, no problem.

He got a 0 on painted, so the conversion/painted/effort argument is basically out the window, he already was penalized for it. As to the WYSIWYG argument, really? You would be confused and not be able to remember if Bretonians had shields and lances? Is that really what some of you are arguing? Because that's what it seems.

**meaples**

I guess some of the players would want to see some sort of distinguishing feature of the knights ( or for the knights to just have weapons ). Truthfully though, I'd agree with sihdhartha because I could never tell apart anything in WHFB and 10/10 would not remember anything even if someone brings a WYSIWYG army.

I think the WYSIWYG issue here is mainly because the ponies don't have lances/shields. Maybe if lances and oversized shields were mounted on their sides and flanks respectively, then the WYSIWYG issue wouldn't be much of a problem.

From the OP's army, the musician and banners were spot on though I might have questioned the armaments of the unit.

If OP wants to run an army like this again, I'd keep the current pony structure, add custom/large pauldrons to their flanks and lances to their sides. Pauldrons could be used for easy identification and lances/swords to show weaponry. If you'd want, you can add some bret knights riding on the ponies just to satisfy people who would want to see some warhammer models in the unit.

**TanKoL**

You don't need to add shields/lances to Ponies for a Bret army ... All Knight unit's have Lances and shields
Yes, all of them, "Questing Knights" are so sh*t they don't exist anymore

**Wehrkind**

Just an aside, Boss Salvage (OP) didn't run the army, just took pictures and wrote up the very nice battle reports.

**RiTides**

meaples, those are good suggestions, and I think if more conversion work had been done, people (or at least, more people than now) would have been a lot more open to this army.

**meaples**

Wehrkind. Sorry my bad. I was referring to the owner of the army in any case.

**Wehrkind**

meaples wrote:
Wehrkind. Sorry my bad. I was referring to the owner of the army in any case.

No worries, just pointing it out in case people forgot in this multi-page extravaganza

Most commented upon thread in WHFB battle reports section? Awfully quiet round here...

**meaples**

WHFB is quiet.... This thread attracts people from all over XD, even the 40k sections.

**Wehrkind**

Just more quiet than I remember, that's all.

**riburn3**

As a Bretonnia player I love the army and the theme. It's hilarious and I would absolutely love to play against this army.

While I understand some of the objections, at the end of the day, this is a game about having fun, and if you are so serious business that you can't have fun while trying to destroy a Pinkie Pie Sparkle Cannon, you're doing something wrong.

**Narenzade**

What this man said above me is absolutely 100% correct.

**RiTides**

Narenzade, earlier you said you'd learned from this, and I hope that is true. A big part of doing an excellent counts-as force is to be considerate of your opponents. My main question for each of mine (Ive done several and am about to start another) is- will they want to play me and enjoy doing so? This leads me to convert weaponry to represent what it should be exactly, to paint the army and base it well, etc. You did neither weaponry conversions or painting/basing, and simple things like your trebuchet crew being identical to the knights makes it not work well for counts-as. If you had done more to make it a better experience for your opponent, I would personally have played against it (the ponies don't really matter to me). So, hopefully you have learned something about making an excellent counts-as force that opponents will want to play (ponies or no ponies!) and can keep those things in mind for future projects.

**domus**

As a fellow who takes painting and the theming of armies personally very seriously I have to tell you...

I LOVE THIS

Kudos sir. I spend a lot of effort creating themed armies. The fun is just oozing out everywhere.
I'd hope to play this skittle Brony love fest - Clearly I've drank the Kool-Aid! I think a 0 paint score is a fair trade as well.

Massive props to the TO for awesome response.

For the rest: Thanks for all the man drama. Really livened up an otherwise boring day.

Cheers,
Domus

**Canuckish**

I don't actually play WFB but that army looked awesome. If you pulled that off in 40K, maybe strap grav guns or bolters and do a White Scars army, I would be happy to take you on in any Tourney

**Anvildude**

... I think there's someone who's actually done that- or is possibly in the process of doing it.

Also, do a google of My Little Commissar.

**A Town Called Malus**

Yeah, can remember someone posting pics of the work in progress in the MLP thread. Can't remember whether they finished and haven't seen any new pics in a while.

**RiTides**

domus wrote:
Massive props to the TO for awesome response.

Do you mean the below post? If so, I really agree!

Murdock wrote:
Hello folks, I'm not a regular reader of the Dakka forums, but this post came up and I felt like I should respond.

I'm the TO for The Crossroads GTs. And I think any hate that's directed at the player who took this army is completely misdirected. He did everything on the up-and-up, he contacted me well in advance, sent me pics of the army, and even pointed me towards players to contact that had played against the army previously to see if it's clear which units are which on the tabletop. Chris certainly did his part, and while there is no painting involved, he clearly committed himself for the "fun" LOLs with this army, even having the videos playing in the background, T-shirts, the castle, cups of punch, etc...

Obviously it's not to everyone's taste, and Chris knew that going in I think, so the wildly varying opinions are not surprising to him.

Any heat for this army being preset at the event should really be directed at me as the TO.

There are a few criteria that I used when deciding whether to allow this army in:

1) Fun factor - clearly Chris was doing this as a fun gag, he went all-out for his theme. I don't fell that he was looking to circumvent having to take an actual GW army, I know that he has painted GW armies, and would have readily taken one of them if I had denied his request.

2) Am I able to tell what's what on the table top: For this is where I had a real concern, in the end, based on previous precedent, I decided to allow it. We have allowed the Pawn's Of Chaos checkerboard familiar army in the past, which I think is more difficult at times to distinguish what it what, and had no issues. The original poster of this battle report himself has brought his cool Nurgle themed Skaven army to the event before, which contains no actual Skaven models, and people seemed to be able to work with that as well. On top of that, Bretonians as an army are usually confusing to me as an individual as to what is what, and which characters are where anyway, so this in my mind was no worse than a normal Bret army in that regard.

3) Appearance - Granted, the player himself did no painting or converting for this army, but it did look coherent and like it belonged together. And outside of the fact that they were MLPs, the army wasn't a horrible looking army. There are players that get their 3 color minimum on the model as sloppily as they can, and they are now compliant. Those armies to me are more unfun to look at because they look legitimately awful, GW minitures or not. I have played in a GT against the army that the models were spray painted different colors, with massive swaths of paint brushed on, then glitter all over them. This was compliant, had it's 3 colors, but was visually painful to look at. I didn't feel that this went to that level of visual disgust.

Where I obviously missed the boat is the player experience, I vastly underestimated how much opponents, and other attendees at the event would dislike having this army present. Chris and I have talked and both agree that this was the only time it will see the table at a GT, and to use this as a lesson learned.

Much of the feedback I've received centers around the lack of effort put into this army as compared to his peers at the event. I would disagree with this reasoning based on one point, I know there are plenty of players that and pay to have their armies built and painted for them. And rarely does anyone say that those armies don't belong at an event based on lack of effort, so that reasoning does not hold water in my mind.

As for the Crossroads GT's themselves, if you find that this one particular instance is reason enough not to attend our events, then that is certainly your prerogative. We take pride in running an event that caters to gamers who value different aspects of the hobby, from those that place a high value on the soft scores to those that really want a competitive gaming environment, and everyone in-between. I think we've been very successful, as these are the largest GT's in the northeast, and we sell out both events annually within 24 hours of opening registration. So if this has put you off, I would encourage you to reconsider and attend in person, as the feedback I regularly receive is that most people have a wonderful time at our GTs, and we grow attendance each year, meaning new attendees find it an experience worth repeating.

**DPBellathrom**

Anvildude wrote:
... I think there's someone who's actually done that- or is possibly in the process of doing it.

Also, do a google of My Little Commissar.

that may have been me :'3

as someone who runs a similar army I have to say that a level of hate/displeasure at seeing this army is understandable but the level in this thread is borderline ridiculous. I'm hardly going to flog a dead horse (aha.......) over this subject as what's been said has already been said so I'll leave it alone. however I can see the argument for "you're just fielding toys"

I would say if you want to field it again then I would advise actually adding war gear to the models. greenstuffing a little armour hear and there along with adding lances would have gone a long way to make the army more playable against. while it's clear to me what everything is (not because I'm a brony but because I've played against brets before, more specifically a much similar build to this)

if you want ideas on conversions for armour give my thread a look (it's in my sig......no it's not a shameless self promotion) and there are lots of great images on google to go by.

I think that you did really well with your army but should have put more work into it than you did.

as for mlp not fitting with the theme of warhammer, consider this. A choas sorc fethed up and tore open a portal to equestria/different universe and ponies came out and they're about to liven up your grimdark world with friendship and happiness. it's your job as the grizzled miserable armchair general that you are to purge this threat from the free lands of men so that the good citizens of the old world can go about their miserable grey lives as usual.....

not being able to forge a narative against armies like these.....what nonsense.

**Anvildude**

Also- just googling MLP 40K will give you some rather astoundingly awesome images- Celestia as The Emperor and Luna as Horus, in their super-ornate terminator armour is pretty badass looking. You could probably get similarly epic imagery with Fantasy.

Heck, there's even canon MLP combat units you could convert and paint up.

Though, come to think of it... Are there any blind-bag figures of male ponies?

**DPBellathrom**

Anvildude wrote:
Though, come to think of it... Are there any blind-bag figures of male ponies?

there are yes. I'll put this in spoilers to keep the thread tidy but you can get hold of them. (this should also give you a good idea on how you can use greenstuff to make armour for them

Spoiler:

**The Dwarf Wolf**

I like the concept, i like the ideias, and i do like the army itself.

For those saying "they have no armor/shields/lances":
Dear, they are ponies, their armor is trusth, their weapon is love, their magic is friendship. They would not march to battle with weapons, they would do it with joy, and music, and party, and fun jokes.

I pretty much could imagine the ogres trying to fight those pure embodyments of cutness, but starting to laugh, joke and sing with each other, while the battle became a big party.

To much pinky dream for Warhammor set? Probably. But also a good change of tides, and source of good laughs.

"Hey look, the Slaughtermaster finally smile, and you see him murmur something that looks like music. The battle has ended".

**Anvildude**

All well and good, except Equestria actually has a Military, and a history of Warfare, as shown by the Equestrian Royal Guard and the historical presense of figures like Commander Hurricane.

There's canon armour! Heck, in the Crystal Empire episodes, there's even Canon LANCES, wielded by Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash.

**SisterSydney**

oh god awesome links please give me links

**Anvildude**

by mysteriouskaos, on DeviantArt

This is from an exhibition in one of the episodes of the Crystal Empire special. It's got a coromel on it, of course, because it was a joust, rather than an actual battle.

The armour worn by Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy as Commander Hurricane and assistant in the Hearth's Warming Eve pageant, is, I think, merely a mishmash from the props bin, but is still representative of armour worn by ponies at some point. And of course the Royal Guards are everywhere.

**TanKoL**

Dear, they are ponies, their armor is trusth, their weapon is love, their magic is friendship

Love it

But I still believe that any male living being above 12 years old should NOT know these things ... still funny

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dear, they are ponies, their armor is trusth, their weapon is love, their magic is friendship

Love it

But I still believe that any male living being above 12 years old should NOT know these things ... still funny

**SisterSydney**

I'm male, 40, and have never actually seen the show -- I've just picked it up via popcultural osmosis and probably have seen 40K-MLP crossover fanart than actual pictures from the show. I still think this army is awesome.

**RiTides**

Anvildude wrote:

by mysteriouskaos, on DeviantArt

This is from an exhibition in one of the episodes of the Crystal Empire special. It's got a coromel on it, of course, because it was a joust, rather than an actual battle.

The armour worn by Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy as Commander Hurricane and assistant in the Hearth's Warming Eve pageant, is, I think, merely a mishmash from the props bin, but is still representative of armour worn by ponies at some point. And of course the Royal Guards are everywhere.

That definitely would have been a step in the right direction!

**Wilytank**

R.I.P., WHFB Batrep forum.