Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I bet everyone who took the Jungle Fighters doctrine is more than happy to trade it for Vets as troops choices. They still get heavy flamers, they can get extra cover saves if they want thanks to Camo, and it's a bunch of hard-bitten, well-equipped squads instead of the normal bunch of guys.

Apparently the Tanith troopers in the stories having amazing voxes compared to those being represented here. They could travel for miles and be useful.

Over all the book is better with some really good unit combos. Its not up to Codex Orks for strength but its not far behind either.

The vox is a repurposed wireless door chime used to get the vox operator's attention so he knows you're about to shout an order at him.

The Manticore can shoot its storm eagle rockets directly, and can be fired four times. 1d3 blasts per rocket, 1 rocket per turn. Confirmed that the Basilisk has no special rules, both heavy mortars can't fire directly, and the Medusa can't fire indirectly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
108. 'Eye-Battlecannons'. Nork may fire D3 Battlecannon shots out of his eyes to justify his 110 point price tag.

I KNEW IT!!!! yes!!!!

109. I made that last one up.

Lies!!

I like to play Devil's Advocate, so despite the fact I HATE HATE HATE that voxes don't let you give orders from across the battlefield, I'm going to try to present a justifiable reason for this idiocy of epic proportions.

The Orders you can give really are more of a response to local conditions. I mean honestly, they aren't "Capture the objective at all costs!" or "Use the buildings to provide enfilading fire into the streets", they're "MOVE" and "DUCK". Guard officers are uninspired leaders, by and large...

Okay, I tried, and that still seems pretty stupid.

Seriously, why is a Lieutenant not able to shout as far as a Captain? Does promotion come with shiny new insignias and a bullhorn?

it's because the IG are sensitive and need to feel that sense of closeness that gets lost over a long Vox network.

Raxmei wrote:The vox is a repurposed wireless door chime used to get the vox operator's attention so he knows you're about to shout an order at him.

The Manticore can shoot its storm eagle rockets directly, and can be fired four times. 1d3 blasts per rocket, 1 rocket per turn. Confirmed that the Basilisk has no special rules, both heavy mortars can't fire directly, and the Medusa can't fire indirectly.

actually, i posted a while back the first confirmed pic of the new and opposite of improved 5th edition vox unit in action.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/16826.page

Allow me to give my interpritation of the new voxcaster:

AlexCage wrote:I like to play Devil's Advocate, so despite the fact I HATE HATE HATE that voxes don't let you give orders from across the battlefield, I'm going to try to present a justifiable reason for this idiocy of epic proportions.

The Orders you can give really are more of a response to local conditions. I mean honestly, they aren't "Capture the objective at all costs!" or "Use the buildings to provide enfilading fire into the streets", they're "MOVE" and "DUCK". Guard officers are uninspired leaders, by and large...

Okay, I tried, and that still seems pretty stupid.

Seriously, why is a Lieutenant not able to shout as far as a Captain? Does promotion come with shiny new insignias and a bullhorn?

Yeah, I've got my justification and its pretty good.

The effect of the vox in game is not a representation of its range, but a representation of how much more clear the communication between two units would be. A lieutenant is not going to issue his sergeant an order in the middle of a firefight, when that sergeant is 200-300 yards away. Why? Because he has no idea what the sergeant is seeing or even exactly where he is.

The range in a tabletop game of 40k is so COMPLETELY asbstract. That is really important to keep in mind. We have artillery pieces on the front lines? We have models that can run as far in 6 seconds as a shotgun blast travels. rapid fire weapons can only kill a model accurately from 144 feet? A main battle tanks cannon can only kill another tank 432 feet away?

Range in 40k is totally fluid and non standard, from a fluff perspective, forget the idea that two units that are 6" apart are 30 feet apart.

The company commander has more battlefield awareness, so he issues orders in a further range. The platoon command squad is more interested in issuing orders to his own squads, so his range is shorter to represent that.

In game terms, the short range of orders injects a feeling of packed in gunline. It makes the IG army feel less like marines or eldar, with units spread all over the place, and more like a block of troops, providing mutual protection in overlapping firelines.

Fortunately, IG CAN be spread all over the place, acting like a mini eldar. Those units who strike out on their own however, must use their own initiative, they won't be as much a part of the war machine as a line squad in formation and therefore, won't be receiving any orders. Other than the orders that you can imagine you are issuing to them, by moving them and shooting with them.

I am SO going to model my Lieutenants, captains and Castellan Creed as follows:

Lt.s Have a hand cupped to a shouting mouth from the heavy weapon sprue.

Capts. have a cone for shouting (wrap greenstuff around the end of a pencil, let it harden).

Creed is going to be converted using the new Catachan boxed set. The dude with one foot up? He'll be standing on an amp and I'll model a little two way radio handset as seen here in one hand and his hot-shot laspistol in the other.

It'll be awesome.

I can't figure out what I could make a colossus out of. Any ideas? Preferably ones not involving chopping up a Bombard?

Rough riders still come with laspistol or close combat weapon. Pretty much the same as last codex, except slightly cheaper with fewer options and the rules for special weapons are clarified. Oh, and grenades.

A lot of vehicles now come with searchlights and smoke launchers. Some come with extra armor already included, which is somewhat smirkworthy.

Incidentally, the guys at my local gaming store were of the opinion that Furious Charge would not raise the S and I of models armed with hunting lances when they charge. I thought it would, but I'm not at all sure, now.

OH yeah! because it doesn't say +2, it says 5. Hmmm.. good question.

Furious charge affects the model's characteristics, which hunting lances don't use.

Another strike against Mogul Kamir. Bollox.

This might need a FAQ: The desperadoes special rule refers to "the Legionnaires." Does this mean the entire penal legion squad, or just the Penal Legionnaires and not the Penal Custodian?

FRFSRF does not specifically state that hot shot lasguns do not count as lasguns. IMO they don't, but that's going to need a FAQ too.

I'd hope for Hunting Lance + Furious Charge to make it to a FAQ. There's a special character who makes this combination come up automatically, after all.

As ordnance weapons that do not specify otherwise, do Hellstrike missiles use the large blast marker?


Weaken resolve only works for the remainder of the turn. Looks like you can't use it to nerf enemy psykers.

desperados is almost certainly legionaires only. Hotshot aren't lasguns. FC should stack with the lance. Hellstrike being ordinance just means you roll 2d6 and take the highest vs armor.

Im surprised no one has mentioned Creed's "tactical genius" rule. the one that lets him make any unit or vehicle unit have scout. Is this not as good as I think it is?

AlfredTheStrange wrote:Im surprised no one has mentioned Creed's "tactical genius" rule. the one that lets him make any unit or vehicle unit have scout. Is this not as good as I think it is?

People have mentioned it. It's not bad, wish it worked on squadrons hehe.

Raxmei wrote:Rough riders still come with laspistol or close combat weapon. Pretty much the same as last codex, except slightly cheaper with fewer options and the rules for special weapons are clarified. Oh, and grenades.

A lot of vehicles now come with searchlights and smoke launchers. Some come with extra armor already included, which is somewhat smirkworthy.

Although considering that they are fragile, hit hard, and have initiative 5 when they matter, then frag grenades are a serious upgrade. Considering that their krak grenades now hit rear rear armor also, they are a non-trivial upgrade. I see the rough riders as this:

First turn of action (which might be 2nd or 3rd game turn): Charge enemy close combat guys.
2nd Turn of action: Anybody still alive charges a tank.

Shep wrote:

AlexCage wrote:I like to play Devil's Advocate, so despite the fact I HATE HATE HATE that voxes don't let you give orders from across the battlefield, I'm going to try to present a justifiable reason for this idiocy of epic proportions.

The Orders you can give really are more of a response to local conditions. I mean honestly, they aren't "Capture the objective at all costs!" or "Use the buildings to provide enfilading fire into the streets", they're "MOVE" and "DUCK". Guard officers are uninspired leaders, by and large...

Okay, I tried, and that still seems pretty stupid.

Seriously, why is a Lieutenant not able to shout as far as a Captain? Does promotion come with shiny new insignias and a bullhorn?

Yeah, I've got my justification and its pretty good.

The effect of the vox in game is not a representation of its range, but a representation of how much more clear the communication between two units would be. A lieutenant is not going to issue his sergeant an order in the middle of a firefight, when that sergeant is 200-300 yards away. Why? Because he has no idea what the sergeant is seeing or even exactly where he is.

The range in a tabletop game of 40k is so COMPLETELY asbstract. That is really important to keep in mind. We have artillery pieces on the front lines? We have models that can run as far in 6 seconds as a shotgun blast travels. rapid fire weapons can only kill a model accurately from 144 feet? A main battle tanks cannon can only kill another tank 432 feet away?

Range in 40k is totally fluid and non standard, from a fluff perspective, forget the idea that two units that are 6" apart are 30 feet apart.

The company commander has more battlefield awareness, so he issues orders in a further range. The platoon command squad is more interested in issuing orders to his own squads, so his range is shorter to represent that.

In game terms, the short range of orders injects a feeling of packed in gunline. It makes the IG army feel less like marines or eldar, with units spread all over the place, and more like a block of troops, providing mutual protection in overlapping firelines.

Fortunately, IG CAN be spread all over the place, acting like a mini eldar. Those units who strike out on their own however, must use their own initiative, they won't be as much a part of the war machine as a line squad in formation and therefore, won't be receiving any orders. Other than the orders that you can imagine you are issuing to them, by moving them and shooting with them.

You know, I buy this.

BoxANT wrote:

AlfredTheStrange wrote:Im surprised no one has mentioned Creed's "tactical genius" rule. the one that lets him make any unit or vehicle unit have scout. Is this not as good as I think it is?

People have mentioned it. It's not bad, wish it worked on squadrons hehe.

shouldnt it? it says vehicle unit, not vehicle. To me this implies you can have scouting squads of russ.

Biophysic wrote:

Raxmei wrote:Rough riders still come with laspistol or close combat weapon. Pretty much the same as last codex, except slightly cheaper with fewer options and the rules for special weapons are clarified. Oh, and grenades.

A lot of vehicles now come with searchlights and smoke launchers. Some come with extra armor already included, which is somewhat smirkworthy.

Although considering that they are fragile, hit hard, and have initiative 5 when they matter, then frag grenades are a serious upgrade. Considering that their krak grenades now hit rear rear armor also, they are a non-trivial upgrade. I see the rough riders as this:

First turn of action (which might be 2nd or 3rd game turn): Charge enemy close combat guys.
2nd Turn of action: Anybody still alive charges a tank.

This is true. Before this, if I had any survivors they would run like crazy out of LOS.

The ministorum priest is now an independent character. That makes the eviscerator a much less desireable upgrade.

If the desperadoes doesn't apply to the Custodian then he'll generally be the first man to be removed as a casualty. Especially if you roll psychos, since he'd make the squad lose Fleet.

The Custodian should have the same rule all commissars attached to Catachan regiments had. Accidents can happen after all.

Ogiwan wrote:Allow me to give my interpritation of the new voxcaster:

you're clearly biased and in the pro-"new voxcaster" camp. you made that string WAY too long! a guard vox using these rules would not be effective at that range.

i thought i read in this thread that orders can be given from a transport.
yet the codex states that officers can't issue orders if embarked? am i losing it, or was anyone else under that impression?

alarmingrick wrote:i thought i read in this thread that orders can be given from a transport.
yet the codex states that officers can't issue orders if embarked? am i losing it, or was anyone else under that impression?

Chimera special rule allows officers embarked in chimeras to give orders. We already knew about this.

okay, thanks. i'm back on track now! it seems like a weird rule. the only other vehicle he could ride in would be a Valk/Vendetta. and we know you can't hear him with the "Flight of the Valkyries" blasting over the loud speakers! duh!