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I still just want to know if a normal troop squad can take two assault weapons instead of one assault and one heavy. This was rumored a long time ago, and I still haven't seen a definite answer.

So can they?

to be honest - looked at the stat line not the name but I can't see GW changing it for the sake of confusing people.
I can remember a passage of text mentioning that some guardsmen use hotshot packs but I believe that this was in reference to sniper riffles (ie like Larkin & the other Ghost snipers use).

middle wrote:Tech priests are pretty much the same. No force org slot is nice And the servitors have the mindlock like marines. Suggests they can deploy without the tech priest but may be stupid.

I may be the only person that really cares but does this mean that the Enginseer is no longer an Elite FOC choice. I must have missed that rumor. I also do not recall much of any talk about servitors other than someone said that gun servitors are no longer BS4 and the plasma cannon is no longer an option. However, I did not see any other source to confirm or deny this.

I'm probably going to use an Enginseer with three technical servitors in spite of the cons: 2 KP, high cost, little to no combat capability. I like the figs I have and I'm itching to paint a Chimera in full Mars regalia. But I'm hoping that the new codex either reduces the point cost or makes the unit only 1 KP.

just remembered - any russ can now take plasma canon sponsons.

So the UK is seeing their preview codices? Any idea when the US wil be seeing them, fellas?

does the valkyrie have to deploy/stay in a squadron or is it just bought for the same FOC slot (1-3) and then can move independantly?

can't remember but troops can HALO but take difficult terrain tests when they land!

bubber wrote:can't remember but troops can HALO but take difficult terrain tests when they land!

Actually, normal Deep Strike would be more akin to a HALO(High Altitude Low Opening) drop, the Valkyrie rule would be more akin to a helicopter combat drop under fire.

So am I going to have to change my username to make it ironic again?

bubber wrote:Erm - I think Middle & I must have been reading different books.
Hotshot lasgun is a hellgun in my mind & is AP3
A Vandetta is not a Vulture - Vendetta can still carry troops while a Vulture is an out & out gunship.
Creed & Kell have different entries & therefore can be separate.
The only thing that can't get in a Valk are Ogryn - boo, no Ogryn skybourne :(.
Any weapon can fire out of a firepoint but I can't see a way of getting 5 special weapons in one squad - Chimera's are dedicated transports.
Heavy weapon & Special weapon squads are as before in number & make-up - ie 3 weapons shared between 6 guys.
There are 6 types of order. High command & some special character upgrade characters can issue 3 while junior officers get the other 3. I think High command can do the junior ones too.
Command squads have command radii - 12" for high & 6" for junior. I think commands can be relayed via a vox too.
Priests are as before where the don't take up an HQ slot (& you can have up to 5)
also you can get heavy flamers in command squads.

@ Khornatedemon - 3 different orders with 3 different abilities

@ Gestalt - if memory serves C is 80, K is 75

caveat - I am 35 and I don't always remember things as i should but am pretty confident about the above.

A lot of this is good news, though it worries me that it is different than what other people who said they saw the codex have said.
Also if Creed is 80 and can give 4 orders thats very nice.

I wonder if this will make Creed the IG's Eldrad. 4 orders, including a rumored order that gives Furious Charge. He doesn't cost terribly much more than a company commander but does the same job better.

Your probably add him to the CHQ causing it to cost 130 to start with him replacing the current officer. The US should have theres in another 2 weeks. We generally see them 4 weeks before release.

Commissars can no longer take powerfists? That's CRAP!

Is there any truth to the rumor that hand flamers are making a return, or just a mean tease.

Did they show any other new models in the codex?

Creed sounds like a bear I love how they are finally realizing that Guard commanders need to be able to COMMAND! And not attempt (and fail horribly) to be some kind of CC Hero.

Man I can not wait to see what kind of options we have in the codex. I really want to see what kind of wargear i can give my Officers and Sgts.

That would be *awesome* if Sgts could take combi-lasguns

Is Nork still the same

Guard sound like there actaully playable.

Apparently there has been some knocking the of book based on the rumours in other threads.

Can someone explain to me where these complaints stem from?

Guard have always been playable, you just have to be good general. Kill Points were the only thing that just hamstrung IG.

mainly from 16pt stormtroopers and 40pt ogryns, vastly overcosted for their benefits this codex. there is also a rumor floating around that rough rider lances are not power weapons any more...

Platuan4th wrote:Actually, normal Deep Strike would be more akin to a HALO(High Altitude Low Opening) drop, the Valkyrie rule would be more akin to a helicopter combat drop under fire.

AKA quick-lining.

"First rank fire! Second rank fire" only working for lasguns sucks hard. No triple tap plasma guns means absolutely no frickin' explanation for why they made 'em more expensive. Bloody useless.

What was the fix for KPs exactly? And how effectively (i know, subjective) could one run an elite/grenadiers type army with this `dex?

From what I gather, when you buy an Infantry Platoon, during deployment you may decide to treat the whole shebang as a single gestalt unit, thus rather than having 5 KPs from a single slot, it's only 1.

Quite like this idea really. However, without really knowing the ins and outs (I suspect the Gestalt will be treated as such in all phases, so same target, all charge etc) I can't really say much more with any amount of accuracy.

On the subject of Storm Troopers....they now have AP3 weapons, with seemingly no real downside, across the unit, and people expected that to come cheap, not to mention their other equipment?

Ogryns also seem to have gotten a fair boost, with FNP and an improved Statline. Sure, the 40 pts a pop seem to be a tad excessive, but given their nature in line with the rest of the army (good bulwark unit to block assaults whilst doing some damage back) and I'd say it's not entirely unjustified.

Now, Rough Rider Lances. I think this stemmed from them not being mentioned on the French Summary yes? Because it seems a tenuous assumption given it doesn't mention any HTH weapons at all....

Reet! Off to bed now. More painting to be done tomorrow and my eyes are going really odd now.

The "fix" is the ability to merge the squads in the platoon. Turn 5x10-man squads into 1x50-man squad. Not sure it's much of a fix, but I generally win my KP games anyways, so it doesn't matter too much.....

Aduro wrote:What was the fix for KPs exactly? And how effectively (i know, subjective) could one run an elite/grenadiers type army with this `dex?

their "fix" was to allow you to combine (during deployment) your platoon regular squads together into one big one. some rumor sources say you can add the command squad while others say no. also, most officers (definitely platoon but not sure about company command) aren't ICs so they don't give up a KP individually. so your platoon of 1 command and 3 reg squads gives a total of 5KP now and can give just 1 or 2 in the new codex depending on which rumor is true.

Aduro wrote:What was the fix for KPs exactly? And how effectively (i know, subjective) could one run an elite/grenadiers type army with this `dex?

The easiest fix was making officers stop being independent characters. There's also supposedly an ability for infantry squads to deploy as a single unit, like a reverse combat squad.

For an elite list, it is no longer possible to run stormtroopers as troops. However, hardened veterans got kicked from elites to troops. There might be restrictions attached but I haven't heard any. The vet squad is now a full ten men and costs 80 points with more or less the same weapons options. There are squad upgrades that allow a certain degree of extra specialization. If you want camo cloaks or carapace armor on troops, this is where you go. As for effectiveness, who knows.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On the subject of Storm Troopers....they now have AP3 weapons, with seemingly no real downside, across the unit, and people expected that to come cheap, not to mention their other equipment?

Ogryns also seem to have gotten a fair boost, with FNP and an improved Statline. Sure, the 40 pts a pop seem to be a tad excessive, but given their nature in line with the rest of the army (good bulwark unit to block assaults whilst doing some damage back) and I'd say it's not entirely unjustified.

Now, Rough Rider Lances. I think this stemmed from them not being mentioned on the French Summary yes? Because it seems a tenuous assumption given it doesn't mention any HTH weapons at all....

Reet! Off to bed now. More painting to be done tomorrow and my eyes are going really odd now.

i don't want to start a multipage thread arguing about their effectiveness (see warseer's forum) but let's just say i disagree with you. to simply correct some mistakes or outdated info, ogryns don't get FNP according to the rumors in the past 60 days; the FNP one is from around november and hasn't been backed up since people have supposedly been looking at the codex. also, their statline hasn't been improved, just modified both up AND down. attacks and toughness went up and their guns got better; strength and initiative went down for every round except on a charge turn (furious charge) and their leadership also dropped. if they were all positive changes i'd wholeheardedly agree with an increase the price by 60% for a unit widely regarded as not worth the original 25pts.

Well at least the OP here said that he saw the RR Lances and says they still ignore armor. So hopefully they are still useful.

KP for Guard is still going to be tough, but at least we are not going to be sooooo KP heavy.

All you need is a Commissar for the platoon and you can make a big blog of Stubborn (fearless with execution) troops that will be a bear to remove from an objective, and also a bear to take out (for 1 measly KP).

Not a perfect fix, but very useful imo.

However, SWS and HWS do not help our KP issue :( they both seem rather fragile and an easy KP.

Command squads are said to not be able to merge, this seems the more logical rule. As much as I would to love to have a 55man squad with both Stubborn and FNP, i can see it as a little overthetop.

I may run with ST just to see how they play, but honestly, a full squad will run you 160pts and I think I would be better served by 40 conscripts


Honestly, imagine a 4 huge units of conscripts, backed up by Creed... giving them FC and Fearless

i don't want to start a multipage thread arguing about their effectiveness (see warseer's forum) but let's just say i disagree with you. to simply correct some mistakes or outdated info, ogryns don't get FNP according to the rumors in the past 60 days; the FNP one is from around november and hasn't been backed up since people have supposedly been looking at the codex. also, their statline hasn't been improved, just modified both up AND down. attacks and toughness went up and their guns got better; strength and initiative went down for every round except on a charge turn (furious charge) and their leadership also dropped. if they were all positive changes i'd wholeheardedly agree with an increase the price by 60% for a unit widely regarded as not worth the original 25pts.

If true then ogryns would definitely be getting a bit of the shaft, but the stormtroopers are not bad at 16. Standard marine cost with considerably more damage output (with orders), much more mobility, and a respectable punch in close combat. They would appear to me to be the games new premiere deep strike suicide squad given their not too immense cost and ability to accurately place themselves without a drop pod. The 16 points may be a shock, but they certainly are worth it in my opinion. Fragile definitely, but they pack a considerable punch.

Reecius wrote:Guard have always been playable, you just have to be good general.

For the last 6 months theyve been REALLY playable if you dont mind losing a LOT. Or having the only games you win be vs newbies/fluff armies/drunk people/whatever.

I'm sorry, but if you've been winning lots of games in the last 6 months... then with all due respect you've been playing people not on the same skill level with yourself. Or in some other way severely handicapped... like having to use the Necron codex.

Death By Monkeys wrote:"First rank fire! Second rank fire" only working for lasguns sucks hard. No triple tap plasma guns means absolutely no frickin' explanation for why they made 'em more expensive. Bloody useless.

I agree but even at 15 points each there's no way I'm leaving them out of my squads. Especially since 5e made them safer in rapid fire mode.

Aduro wrote:And how effectively (i know, subjective) could one run an elite/grenadiers type army with this `dex?

I'd consider running a veteran heavy army but not a lot of grenadiers or storm troopers. The latest rumors put veteran squads at 70 points each. They're troop choices with BS4 and the option to take three special weapons and a heavy weapon team. They can also have a Chimera. To me, these squads look pretty good.

I wouldn't run grenadiers because they cost about 30 more points just to get carapace armor. That seems pricey to me but still makes the squad a lot cheaper than stormtroopers (100 points base versus 160 points base). While some people see the ST's AP3 hellguns as worth the point bump, I remain unconvinced. I plan to drop an ST squad from my current army list and may end up dropping all three ST squads in favor of veterans or regular squads. I'll keep the STs for APOC games, for Inquisitor armies, and for the next codex.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On the subject of Storm Troopers....they now have AP3 weapons, with seemingly no real downside, across the unit, and people expected that to come cheap, not to mention their other equipment?

Ogryns also seem to have gotten a fair boost, with FNP and an improved Statline. Sure, the 40 pts a pop seem to be a tad excessive, but given their nature in line with the rest of the army (good bulwark unit to block assaults whilst doing some damage back) and I'd say it's not entirely unjustified.

I'd say that 16 points a model for STs is a pretty serious downside. It's just my opinion but I don't think it's unique. I agree with the viewpoint that some players will still get a lot of value out of STs but I don't plan to beat my head against a wall looking for that silver lining. The STs are so well equipped now that they're just too valuable to risk in combat relative to other IG units. I expect a lot of players to either park the ST models on the shelf or use them as veterans with carapace.

I don't think Ogryns will get FNP. They appear to get T5 instead. I don't see a need to use them to block assaults given 5e's prohibition on consolidating into a new unit. I'd rather just let you crumple one cheap squad and then shoot your assaulting unit. If you have a real solid hammer unit then I'll need to repeat this process two or three times but eventually the odds in 5e are that your assault units will all die before I run out of cheap squads. On the negative side, you'll probably win Annihilation scenarios due to all of the KPs you'll gain. All you have to do is kill half my army and then keep one of your units alive till the end of the game.