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English leak on rapidshare on 4chan

That is to say, no fluff stuff only rules

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes. 'Better' in the sense that hammering one nail through your dick is better than hammering two nails through your dick.

Some people go for that.

So, I've had a chance to look at the book now and I have some pretty mixed feelings on it. First, some things that I like:

1. Chimeras, I am a fan of pretty much everything that was done with Chimeras. They got a MUCH needed point reduction to 55. They maybe could have gone a little lower but whatever, I can live with 55. I also really love the 5 firepoints, that was totally unexpected and I was also pleasantly surprised that using the fire points does not make the Chimera open topped. This is probably my favorite thing about the book. This one helps ease the pain of some of the changes that I really loathe.

2. Guardsmen reduced to 5 points and get frag plus free vet sgt (and thus LD 8). I was really liking the rumors of guardsmen being 4 points but since LD bubbles are gone now I think the current configuration is for the best.

3. Blob platoons, the more I think about this the more I like it. It gives you a lot of flexibility in how you set your army up and can be switched on the fly depending on the mission. It also means that I might at least occasionally use comissars and Voxes now.

4. Vets as troops. Yes, we can't drop them in anymore but with the ability to take three specials and a heavy and then hide inside of the newly improved Chimera, all for one point less apiece than what they used to cost consider me a fan. Plus, they're scoring units. How awesome is that?

5. The artillery section, wow, lots of cool artillery to choose from (and in squadrons no less) and the best part is that more than one of the new artillery pieces will probably actually be useful. Griffons, Colossus, Medusas, Basilisks (less so with the Basilisk unfortunately), I can see uses for all of them.

Also, I can't help but notice that the artillery didn't seem to get the price bump that the Leman Russes did. GW must want to sell some of these.

With that said though there are a lot of things I do not like at all about this book:

1. First and foremost why the HELL can my sergeants not take lasguns? Really games workshop? Would it have been too much to ask that lasguns at least be an option for them? I've got 12 of these guys fully assembled and painted with lasguns and it is going to be a pain to change them. I know this seems minor but it is a real annoyance and is totally unnecessary. I am hoping this is a copy/paste mistake and gets some FAQ attention eventually (ha ha ha yeah I know ...silly me).

2. Orders, for the most part I am not liking them. They honestly seem about as ham fisted as the doctrine system that they are replacing. I am not saying they are useless or that they won't have an effect on games but that I don't like how they were implemented. Apparently in the grim darkness of the future there are no radios so they are limited to shouting distance only which I guess makes sense then that you can't hear people shouting while you're in your Chimera.

Also, if you're going to try to use them you still have to bunch your army up around the officers just like you did with the old leadership bubbles. So much for changing that aspect of the guard.

Since my army is mechanized it means that right away I'm pretty well not getting any benefit from orders. Unless you're running large blob platoons I just don't see the orders being all that useful. But if you are then I suppose you will enjoy them. Lucky you.

3. Voxes, this relates to my complaint above. The lowly vox was pretty useless in the old codex and given how the orders worked this would have been the perfect opportunity to make the vox useful both in terms of increasing the distance over which orders could be received and perhaps making it to where troops sitting inside of a vehicle were capable of receiving orders.

Instead, what do we get? A simple reroll. No increase in distance, nothing. How, exactly is it that a radio only works over shouting distance? What a piece of

And to top all of that off the squads that you might actually want to benefit from orders such as special weapons squads and heavy weapons squads don't even have the option of taking them. Way to fail.

To look on the bright side though I think we will at least go from Voxes being totally absent from competitive guard armies to maybe at least occasionally appearing within blob squads where you can maximize the benefit you are getting from the points spent on the Vox. Even that is iffy though since both the squad and command squad each have to have one so you are looking at a minimum investment of 10 points to get any use out of them and at that point you are edging into points that could be used on just buying more guns which I think tends to be the better investment. I suppose time, playtesting, and math hammer will eventually tell.

4. Leman Russ price increase. Wow these things are expensive now, particularly the "demolisher variants". I understand that they are more effective in mass numbers but this seems to be fairly well balanced out by the fact that immobilized results now destroy your 200 point tanks (and therefore we're back to 4th ed. where your stuff can be killed on glances again) and the fact that they don't reliably move well over 6". Also, having your 600 points worth of tanks forced to all fire at the same target is just really overkill.

Thank goodness artillery got a nice bump. Shame though that my demolishers will probably be riding the bench with this Codex.

5. Units that are borderline useless. Where to even begin? Ogryns, Storm Troopers, priests (45 points for a T3, I3, W1 independent character ...no thanks), and ratlings (t2, no longer hit on 2+ thanks to 5th ed, no longer can choose to go to ground instead of taking a morale test) just to name a few. There is WAY to much chaff in this book.

I could probably list a few more things but this post is already WAY too long.

Summary of the majority of HBMC's Non-Review:
"Guardsmen suck in HTH. Don't take things designed for HTH."


Well... thank you, sir, for such scholarly advice!



I was shcoked to see the Primaris Psyker's ability that makes you take a leadership test was a psychic power he actually had to USE. That's fething stupid. Who's going to use that? You'll use it once, the first turn when you don't have range on your arc lightning, and never again.

I don't see anyone taking the Primaris Psyker for anything other than fluff and fun anyways. Just a waste of an HQ choice.


Right now I'm trying to concoct the greatest Close-Combat squad EVAR. I think it'll be Kell, Yarrick, Nork (HOLY STUPID AMAZINGLY DUMB EXPENSIVE), and Straken. Give the CCS pistols to go with their CCWs. Bam! 3 powerfists and a Nork.

I plan on modelling my Company Commanders without guns. When asked about it I will respond "Gun? He doesn't need a gun, he's got a Nork!". Only because I can't change his name to Donk. /random

AlexCage wrote:Summary of the majority of HBMC's Non-Review:
"Guardsmen suck in HTH. Don't take things designed for HTH."

Well... thank you, sir, for such scholarly advice!

I've been saying it for years whenever some idiot insisted in taking 'Hardened Fighters' as a Doctrine. It seems that GW still think you can do a HTH army with Guard.

AlexCage wrote:I plan on modelling my Company Commanders without guns. When asked about it I will respond "Gun? He doesn't need a gun, he's got a Nork!".

Wouldn't "Gun? I can't afford a gun 'cause I bought Nork!" be more accurate?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes. 'Better' in the sense that hammering one nail through your dick is better than hammering two nails through your dick.

So Possessed are worse than Halo?

I'm a bit overwhelmed still on this codex. It's very nice in a lot of ways, though it does have some real gak (like, from the butt) baked into the apple pie. I just can't process all the good and the bad right now. I think I need to lay down.

Scottywan82 wrote:So Possessed are worse than Halo?

*phew* Thank God you got the reference.

I was worried someone might think my comment was a little extreme, even for me.

AlexCage wrote:Summary of the majority of HBMC's Non-Review:
"Guardsmen suck in HTH. Don't take things designed for HTH."


Well... thank you, sir, for such scholarly advice!



I was shcoked to see the Primaris Psyker's ability that makes you take a leadership test was a psychic power he actually had to USE. That's fething stupid. Who's going to use that? You'll use it once, the first turn when you don't have range on your arc lightning, and never again.

I don't see anyone taking the Primaris Psyker for anything other than fluff and fun anyways. Just a waste of an HQ choice.


Right now I'm trying to concoct the greatest Close-Combat squad EVAR. I think it'll be Kell, Yarrick, Nork (HOLY STUPID AMAZINGLY DUMB EXPENSIVE), and Straken. Give the CCS pistols to go with their CCWs. Bam! 3 powerfists and a Nork.

I plan on modelling my Company Commanders without guns. When asked about it I will respond "Gun? He doesn't need a gun, he's got a Nork!". Only because I can't change his name to Donk. /random

That's not a Nork. This is a Nork.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:So Possessed are worse than Halo?

*phew* Thank God you got the reference.

I was worried someone might think my comment was a little extreme, even for me.

I only quote PA all the fething time. My wife can quote Penny Arcade I do it so much.

Does anyone else love Harker and Bastonne? They're a little expensive, but I basically see them as having different, unique doctrines (30 points) included in their cost.

With Bastonne being able to give his unit "Take it down" or "Fire on my mark" on Ld 10, I see these guys being premier tank hunters or dislodging tough units from cover.

Harker also seems like a great way to pop some troublesome tanks. Give 'em 3 meltas and some bombs and do some tasty flank marching. Mmm. Seems odd they gave him a Heavy Bolter though. Maybe a unit with 3 sniper rifles and 2 heavy bolters with Stealth, in cover? That'd be a pretty scary unit too.


Also, personally I don't care that the Deathstrike has no place in regular 40k. It's FRIGGIN' AWESOME. 8-12" blast template at st10, ap1, ignore cover, always counts as full str against vehicles Mahaha, bring on the ICBMs.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AlexCage wrote:Summary of the majority of HBMC's Non-Review:
"Guardsmen suck in HTH. Don't take things designed for HTH."

Well... thank you, sir, for such scholarly advice!

I've been saying it for years whenever some idiot insisted in taking 'Hardened Fighters' as a Doctrine. It seems that GW still think you can do a HTH army with Guard.

So, where do I apply to get a refund for the seconds I wasted reading that manifesto of yours? I agree with you, the Codex sucks, but I don't see the need to hammer it to the ground every godsdamned entry at a time.

You hate the codex. We get it. Moving on.

The Codex is irredeemably weak, and I would not recommend it to my worst enemy. I will stick with it because it's what I've always done. I fully expect five to ten years more of IG being a sub-par army gangraped by every opponent, or forced into narrow constraints of "competitive lists", exploiting some of the abnormally strong units in the book (Creed and Vendettas look to have a bright future).

My advice to interested parties remains the same: "Play Orks".

Agamemnon2 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AlexCage wrote:Summary of the majority of HBMC's Non-Review:
"Guardsmen suck in HTH. Don't take things designed for HTH."

Well... thank you, sir, for such scholarly advice!

I've been saying it for years whenever some idiot insisted in taking 'Hardened Fighters' as a Doctrine. It seems that GW still think you can do a HTH army with Guard.

So, where do I apply to get a refund for the seconds I wasted reading that manifesto of yours? I agree with you, the Codex sucks, but I don't see the need to hammer it to the ground every godsdamned entry at a time.

You hate the codex. We get it. Moving on.

Give H his credit, he hates parts of the new codex because he has a realistically low opinion of GW as games designers and topical for this case guard credentials. Let him be.

After roughly skimming the book I have a few impressions. Like any new codex it has a lot of new toys, but not all the toy will be effective. It will take some time to build a properly balanced guard list, in my opinion, but since this was "released" early, we get a head start on trying to figure out what will work best.

Even with the ability to use the orders, STs don't cut it. They're too fragile for their points, and their guns don't even have the range to let them use those orders from a good distance. Yes, you can walk up to a forest with gaunts / orks / marines in it, shoot them with S3 guns, and make the 2 guys you wounded reroll cover saves. Then the next turn you get charged and die until you are dead from it.

Same thing with tank busting. They are a suicide melta unit that costs 100 points more than the platoon command squad, company command squad, veteran squad, or SWS you should be using as a suicide melta squad.

A ray of sunshine is that Straken seems like a lot of fun. Creed gives one unit FC / turn, which could be nice if you have a 30-man blob with frag grenades and you can't just shoot them instead. Straken gives it to every unit in 12", along with countercharge, and is pretty good in HTH himself.

Yarrik sounds like fun. He takes a bright lance to the face. 1 wound. Dreadnaught powerfist to the crotch. 1 wound. Eaten by a Hive Tyrant. 1 wound. He comes back on a 3+ and flips you off with a really BIG power claw finger. He's like Boris the Blade, but Russian. Wait a minute...

Now for some rumour busting.

I havent read all 60+ pagers so this mighty have cropped up before.....

You do NOT ignore the 4+ cover save for firing through your own troops with IG platoons per se. However a combined squad still counts as one squad so you can hide heavy weapons that way.
This means that your IG heavy weapons squads will either have to give away a free 4+ on each shot or expose themselves to return fire. Allowing for the idiotic w2 rule they wont last long.

pakman wrote:After roughly skimming the book I have a few impressions. Like any new codex it has a lot of new toys, but not all the toy will be effective. It will take some time to build a properly balanced guard list, in my opinion, but since this was "released" early, we get a head start on trying to figure out what will work best.

I'm not convinced there is a balanced, competitive build. There wasn't one in the previous book, which is why people where so keen on Drop Troop veterans with 3 plasma or melta guns.

What I expect to see are endless iterations of Ursarkar E. Creed's Flying Circus, with a choral accompaniment from from Psykers in Chimeras.

Hrm. In case no one noticed it, when Yarrick gets back up (at the start of the Guard player's turn), he is immediately moved 1" away from any enemies in base to base.

This means, of course, he gets to shoot you, charge, die, get up, shoot, and charge you all over again. AND HE CAN KEEP DOING IT! I can see using him with Creed or Straken to scary scary effect.

Hrrrm! I wonder how the average Yarrick/Ghazgul fight will go now!

Orlanth wrote:Now for some rumour busting.

This means that your IG heavy weapons squads will either have to give away a free 4+ on each shot or expose themselves to return fire. Allowing for the idiotic w2 rule they wont last long.

Or use them in the manner they are most fit for, shooting out of cover.

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I expect to see are endless iterations of Ursarkar E. Creed's Flying Circus, with a choral accompaniment from from Psykers in Chimeras.

I honestly don't think the Valkyrie is worth it. It costs 10 more points than a Wave Serpent and isn't as survivable. Honestly, what are you going to be putting in this thing than you want close to a target? Now, if I could carry Howling Banshees in it, that's a different story. I would still expect the main transport to be Chimeras as I can't think of one good use for the Valkyrie.

I will agree with you though, that you will see a lot of Creeds and Psychic Choirs in chimeras. That's one of the first things I thought of myself.

So, is there any rumors of a reworked Chimera coming out with the new kits?

Or do I cut the top hatch and raise it by about a quarteter of an inch on corner silts/lifts to represent the new firepoint rules?

Also, to use the chimera in such a fasion. Won't you have to expose your side armor for TLOS unless using a barrage weapon?

pakman wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I expect to see are endless iterations of Ursarkar E. Creed's Flying Circus, with a choral accompaniment from from Psykers in Chimeras.

I honestly don't think the Valkyrie is worth it. It costs 10 more points than a Wave Serpent and isn't as survivable. Honestly, what are you going to be putting in this thing than you want close to a target? Now, if I could carry Howling Banshees in it, that's a different story. I would still expect the main transport to be Chimeras as I can't think of one good use for the Valkyrie.

Valkyries? They're useless and overcosted. What I expect to see are 3 to 9 Vendettas carrying nothing.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

The Codex is irredeemably weak, and I would not recommend it to my worst enemy. I will stick with it because it's what I've always done. I fully expect five to ten years more of IG being a sub-par army gangraped by every opponent, or forced into narrow constraints of "competitive lists", exploiting some of the abnormally strong units in the book (Creed and Vendettas look to have a bright future).

My advice to interested parties remains the same: "Play Orks".

Wow, this seems like a harsh statement. I looked through it for a short while at the local store yesterday, and I see nothing that suggests "irredeemably weak" is an accurate way to describe it. True, there are units that shouldn't be taken by anyone who pretends to like winning, but I see some really good units that will make up a solid core to a competitive army.

veterans
blob platoons
certain Leman Russ variants
artillery
chimeras (fire points definitely make them worthwhile for 55 imo)

Then again, I've never had a lot of problems winning with Guard in the first place. I will concede the possibility that I may have played sub-par opponents for the last 10 years, it is difficult to quantify the skill of any particular gaming environment.

pakman wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I expect to see are endless iterations of Ursarkar E. Creed's Flying Circus, with a choral accompaniment from from Psykers in Chimeras.

I honestly don't think the Valkyrie is worth it. It costs 10 more points than a Wave Serpent and isn't as survivable. Honestly, what are you going to be putting in this thing than you want close to a target? Now, if I could carry Howling Banshees in it, that's a different story. I would still expect the main transport to be Chimeras as I can't think of one good use for the Valkyrie.

I will agree with you though, that you will see a lot of Creeds and Psychic Choirs in chimeras. That's one of the first things I thought of myself.

So no one's keen on the dual missile pod valk with melta squad or cheap infantry in it? 130 pts for a flying, fast AV12 vehicle that fires 2 large blast templates? I haven't really thought too deeply about it yet, so I'd like to hear what the vets think.

I can accept almost all of these reviews coming in.

For one, there are admittedly, a lot of units that aren't going to make any competitive lists. It is a step backwards from orks to be sure. But I think the SM book has a lot of underpowered units as well. GW just hasn't transcended to that level of game design where all units are equally usable, and none are redundant (with one being slightly better than its counterpart). However, no tabletop miniatures game has reached that level. Warmachine PRIME almost had it. With only a handful of crappy units. But as soon as they started expanding the factions and adding new units, then the inevitable redundancy crept in, and units got permanently shelved for all factions.

All units in this book look to be usable in the proper environment. There isn't anything in this book that is so bad that you couldn't sprinkle it in a 3k apocalypse list and find a use for it. That isn't really good enough for me. But it is a step up from the last IG codex.

But the people who aren't finding a competitive list with these rumors just aren't trying hard enough.

company command squads with special weapons in chimeras
sanctioned psykers
blob platoons
veterans with special weapons in chimeras
valkyries
vendettas
hellhounds
russ variants
artillery variants

Make lists from these units. be sure to stock up on shots that ignore cover. Colossus, Eradicator, hellhound. Keep a little ap2 around as well. Plasma gun blobs, executioners, demolishers. Use fast vehicles to block (or score) objectives, and shred any blockers/enemy troops with your own shooting.

The hellhound is better in my opinion. In the old firing rules, the entire template needed to be placed within 24", meaning you either had your flamer template turned sideways, or you were shooting less than 24", under the new rules the small end is placed up to 12" away and the long end cannot be closer than the small end. That adds an extra 8" to the 12". Meaning it only lost 4" of range. As it gained fast vehicle status, it is a net increase in range, and since the sweet spot of the flamer template is not the small end, you don't HAVE to be within 12" charge range to fire the template. Lets not forget that the template doesn't need to roll to hit in order to hit all models automatically. It is a strength 6 flamer that you can place anywhere that won't scatter a single inch. I'll pay an extra 15 points for all those bonuses. Guard needs fast vehicles to win games of 5th edition. If I'm not running at least two eradicators, then I will have hellhounds in my army. I'm playing a cities of death game with a bunch of bane wolves tonight, I'll let you know how that ap3 template does as well.

The units that aren't competitive range from really close, to pretty far off.

prim psyker- I see taking him when you really don't want to spend anything on an HQ. Buying the 50 point command squad usually gets you buying a chimera and special weapons/flags/advisors. With the prim you can just pay the 70 points, jump in someone elses chimera and be underwhelming.

commissar lord- I think this bubble is required if you are running heavy weapons squads. I'm very interested in trying a infantry heavy list, really interacting with orders heavily. Unofrtunately for the lord, he is a reqired unit in a list that I think is lower tier.

priest- meh, I wish I could say he was somehow the key to unlocking something. He's there if you want him because you have the model, He's right at home in friendly games, but they didn't do anything inspired with him.

ratlings- sniper units in 5th ed are yawn inducing anyway, and I just keep looking at that leadership 6. So another unit (like the HWS) that needs commlord babysitting. Ugh. friendly games only, the larger the better.

orgyn- Gotta use them before I really know, because there isn't really an analagous unit in 40k. But competitively speaking, I can't see how this unit will be worth its points.

storm troopers- this could be the biggest snafu of the book. A fan favorite to be sure, and they might have gotten worse. Not cool.

penal legionarres- this is for the bell of lost souls crowd. Consider it a bonus unit, it has no need to be any good, because its just silly.

sentinels- Suffering in the redundant camp. They don't do anything unique, and now I actually have good FAST vehicles in my fast attack. Great models, and not really detrimental to a list. Just uninspiring and a bit overcosted.

some of the artillery variants and some of the russ variants- well with 7 russes and 6 artillery variants, the cream is bound to rise to the top. The funniest thing about these new tanks is that i think a couple of the worst tanks are the original battle cannon and the basilisk. Both of those tanks suffer from their ability to shoot at all targets. I'd rather have a strength 6 hyper efficient infantry killer or a pask powered tank buster, but not a large blast thats 'ok' at killing various tanks.


In the end. I got what I wanted. I can make an army that tourney players will respect, using the models I own (adding a couple new ones of course). I would have LOVED to see something like codex orks. But we didn't get it.

I'm content with what we've got. I forsee 3-4 years of fun with it. But I'd have been exceedingly happy if ogryns worked. I would have loved if stormtroopers were featured heavily, and I really wanted some field artillery ala DKK forgeworld stuff. (but that was just a pipedream)

One thing that I think is sort of interesting is how the Front Rank, Second Rank Fire order has steadily gotten worse and worse as time goes on:

1. As first rumored it was any rapid fire weapon ...wow cool, 3 shot plasmas, no wonder they're 15 points!

2. Ok, just lasguns, I wonder why plasma guns are 15 points? Oh well, still pretty neat that you can have a unit (possibly storm troopers) jump out of a transport and put a bunch of lasguns into something.

3. Hmm Voxes don't help you receive orders from across the board so I suppose I won't be doing that then.

4. Heavy weapon teams count as one model with 2 wounds and a heavy weapon. So much for that lasgun shot.

5. Sergeants don't get lasguns either ...so now we're down to what, 6 lasguns in an average squad?

18 Bs3 Str3 shots versus 12 seems distinctly ...underwhelming.

And is it true that in this month's White Dwarf the Codex author talked about a squad with 10 lasguns in it? How did he manage that? Does he have a special infantry squad that he can buy that the rest of us peons don't get access to? Or did he combine two (or more) infantry squads and decide to assign wounds to the special/heavy weapon troopers and the sergeant first to whittle the squad down to 10 guys with lasguns? Or is it just a typical GW ill thought out rules "clarification" that reads like it was written by someone that isn't even familiar with the source material?

The thing I have the most problem with in the book:

On the page for the Hydra, the blurb box relates how a heavy AA regiment of Hydras held off a rebel drop, racking up a confirmed kill ratio of 99,999:1.



How... the HELL? Even with a conservative estimate of 3 companies in the regiment, at full strength, that's about 3 million kills. What the HELL kind of invasion was that?!

God damned you, Imperial Propoganda! No one is buying your lies!


Also: To continue harping on the stromtrooper issue. Here's another thing that chaps my ass something fierce. I think we can all agree that we're paying for those AP3 weapons with that hefty price tag of 16 points. But we lose that AP3 when 'upgrading' their weapons to specials. But their specials cost the same as everyone else. This is fair how?

I can understand crappier BS models paying the same for Special Weapons, they get a break in their base cost for having crappier BS. But with a special weapon we're paying for TWO weapons and giving them one. STUPID.

And really, is there EVER a reason to give your Stormtroopers GLs or flamers? Like, ever? Especially now? No? That explains why Kasrkin come with one of each in the damn box, and not enough for a full squad without them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
39. I love the artwork here. Catachan Officer running forward waving is sword one way, his plasma pistol another, and he's not looking where he's shooting. I 'spose that turn he rolled a Double 6.

He's not shooting, the gun is venting. It's the dramatic gun over your head, sword thrusting forward, screaming your head off pose. Personally, I found it more amusing to see Catachans marching abreast with a standard bearer.

... Is "Guard Charging" so alien a concept that people don't even recognize it when they see it in the art?

AlexCage wrote:The thing I have the most problem with in the book:

On the page for the Hydra, the blurb box relates how a heavy AA regiment of Hydras held off a rebel drop, racking up a confirmed kill ratio of 99,999:1.



How... the HELL? Even with a conservative estimate of 3 companies in the regiment, at full strength, that's about 3 million kills. What the HELL kind of invasion was that?!

God damned you, Imperial Propoganda! No one is buying your lies!

Well, I think they mean "99,999 enemy soldiers killed, 1 friendly soldier killed."

Concerning the voxes, they seem kinda wierd. Like people have criticized, Guard radios now only work over shouting distance? It's 'cause they're cups on a string.

One of my gripes is that, rather than making competitive choices for special weapons, they jack up the price on the one good special weapon the Guard has access to (Plasma, which KILLS EVERYTHING), and drops the price on grenade launchers and flamers, which....well, the latter is entirely useless, and the former is generally useless.

Still, though, I maintain that you cannot run all the armies that you used to. Cadians are no problem. Steel legion is no problem. However, Catachans? How do you do jungle fighters....who can't move any more easily in the jungle? Light infantry....same problem. Drop troops, you can KINDA do, but only by taking Valk squadrons (which means you have to pretty much do platoon movement, i.e. a platoon at a time, and can't move more than 9 squads at a time), or similar gimmicks which don't really capture how we used to be able to roll. Similarly, Grenadiers, or any other heavy infantry-type list: sure, I can take Veterans with carapace (*wince*), and I can give the command squad carapace (right?), but....I only have one command squad, so I'm horribly limited in the orders I can give, and the rest of my army isn't carapaced or high-speed or anything like that. I guess you can kinda do Valhallans as well, but....they get....more conscripts? I don't see the Vostroyan Firstborn, the Valhallans, the Tallarans, or the Cadians differing at all in terms of rules.

In the old dex, hey, I could take doctrines, and actually customize the army. Sure, some choices sucked, but I could at least make a unit that fought how I wanted it to.

Again, I think that this 'dex should be called, "Codex: Cadians".

Or, if you'd rather, "Codex: That Army That We Really Don't Care About Because They're Not Power-Armored Freaks".

Except for the fact that the doctrines for the most famous regiments weren't really unique, and some of the best parts of being Cadians (Having more doctrines, having sharpshooters) aren't in the book. So Codex:Cadians is just as accurate as Codex: Steel Legion. Granted, Catachans are pretty hard to represent now (for anyone who actually took Jungle Fighters). But armies like Tanith and Tallarn are just as easy to represent, and armies like Terrax Guard or Elysian are even EASIER to make. Stupid and uncompetitive, but fluffy as all hell.

This Codex is Generic Guard through and through. Cadians just happen to be more generic than most. But we still don't get sharpshooters.. bah.

Shep wrote:
ratlings- sniper units in 5th ed are yawn inducing anyway, and I just keep looking at that leadership 6. So another unit (like the HWS) that needs commlord babysitting. Ugh. friendly games only, the larger the better.

As far as Ratling Ld goes, I can't say it has ever been much of a problem. Infiltrating them into whatever piece of 4+ cover has the best vantage point has always been standard operating procedure, and I've tended to rely on presenting the enemy with more worthwhile targets to spare them undue attention. Given the nature of 40k sniper weapons, you pretty much need a bunch of them in one unit. Though a full unit only causes 1.11 Rending wounds and an additional 2.22 armor saves to any non-Gargantuan model with a Toughness value, in terms of kills per point it's not horrible, considering the army's poor BS. And taking pinning weapons now that we have a reliable, repeatable way to cripple an unit's Ld every turn doesn't quite sound like the horrible idea it was back in the olden days.