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Its still an understrength squad with expensive extra wounds, though. You can make a nasty powerweapon / fist squad, but the points you end up paying for it would be more efficiently spent on some heavy or special weapons imo.

I kept washing power fist wounds through the refractor field and on a fail I'd assign to a bodyguard.

I think you played that wrong. Bodyguards allow you to re-allocate wounds, not unsaved wounds -- there's a difference and it is detailed in the complex unit rules. All bodyguards do is allow you to re-allocate wounds given to the commander to your bodyguards before saves are made. Still nice but not as nice as being able to re-allocate unsaved wounds.

Nice breakdown on the comissar though -- with stubborn in play now I see the re-roll as better then invoking no retreat via an assumed to have passed ability.

so now that Vets "have" to be ten men squads, what heavy weapon are people going to use in Vet squads, if any?
with my shotgun/meltagun vets i'm torn between the HB or lascannon. i gave them the shotguns and meltas so everyone could move and shoot. i'm leaning towards the HB. now for the plasma/lasgun vets i'm thinking the obvious choice (to me) is the AC. what do the masses think?

I'm using Harker and skipping a heavy weapon. 3 meltas, demo, and harker. Look out, tanks! You're fethed!

Id say none of the above and use the points elsewhere.

I'm inclined to agree. maxing out on the special weapons should be enough.

Around here people swear by vets with meltas / plasmas and an autocannon.

Personally I'm going with shotgun grenadiers with a plasma gun and power weapon.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

pakman wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I expect to see are endless iterations of Ursarkar E. Creed's Flying Circus, with a choral accompaniment from from Psykers in Chimeras.

I honestly don't think the Valkyrie is worth it. It costs 10 more points than a Wave Serpent and isn't as survivable. Honestly, what are you going to be putting in this thing than you want close to a target? Now, if I could carry Howling Banshees in it, that's a different story. I would still expect the main transport to be Chimeras as I can't think of one good use for the Valkyrie.

Valkyries? They're useless and overcosted. What I expect to see are 3 to 9 Vendettas carrying nothing.

I see a lot of people over joygasming on the vendettas and i'm seeing people take 6-9 vendettas gaking their pants about the 3x TL lascannons.

They are great - great on paper.


i mean i'm pretty sure a lot people recognize... you can't move 12''+ and shoot all three, and expect to get a cover save. . . .

You'd have to be stationary to shoot all three lol.


Yikes.

BrookM wrote:Around here people swear by vets with meltas / plasmas and an autocannon.

Personally I'm going with shotgun grenadiers with a plasma gun and power weapon.

If you want shotguns, I'd suggest taking assault weapons like melta guns or grenade launchers. The only advantage a shotgun has over a lasgun is that you can assault after shooting (something that you can't do if you plan on shooting plasmas).

It's a real shame that shotguns have so few uses. Back in 3rd edition when rapid fire weapons could only shoot once after moving, shotguns were the obvious choice for mobile forces. Now a days with rapid fire weapons shooting twice after movement, shotguns are pretty useless.

I can't wait to use the "Take it down!" order.
Uberfex, say hello to my Lascannon battery!
muahahahaha!

A Valkyrie costs £34.25, The Vendetta forgeworld upgrade kit will probably cost £11.75 (that's what the tank upgrade kits costs). So thats £46 for a Vendetta, roughly £15 per TL lascannon. Multiply by 6-9. It means that the rich kids (and the grownups with a lot of spendable income) will get much better armies than the kids with workingclass parents. And it makes me wish I could buy some GW-stock, because they will make some serious money the second quarter of -09.

@RogueMarket: They are fast vehicles, that's pretty nasty compared to heavy weapon teams. But I agree with you. I think they will suffer from the same identity crisis as the old(est) LandRaider configuration that couldnt quite decide if it was a tankhunter tank or an assaultvehicle. Thank the Emperor for the Crusader pattern, right? :-)

The answer to Valks is simple:
Hydra squadron. twelve 72" twinlinked autocannon shots that deny skimmer movement saves should do fine against front armor 12. maybe not an end-all to the valk, but still a threat.
Shouldn't be too hard of a conversion. Just get some chimera chassis and set to work.

IDK if anyone notice this combination.



(USE THE COMBINE SQUAD RULE)

100 pt squad

5x Command Squad –
-4x Flamers
6x Special Weapons Squad
-3x flamers


Throw them in a chimera - mix and match - and add a melta while your at it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kujo wrote:Are you sure its not "all guard units" - I don't think that kind of special rule would work with allied units from another list.

Here is the exact wording -

Cold Steel and Courage: Friendly units within 12" of Straken have the Counter-Attack and Furious Charge universal special rules. This includes Colonel Straken and his Command Squad. - Codex: Arbitrary, Page 60

Grey Knights seem pretty friendly to me...

This wont last much beyond release of Codex Inquisitor but I can still see Iron Hand Straken being as staple of double tournaments. Howling Banshees, yay.

RogueMarket wrote:IDK if anyone notice this combination.



(USE THE COMBINE SQUAD RULE)

100 pt squad

5x Command Squad –
-4x Flamers
6x Special Weapons Squad
-3x flamers


Throw them in a chimera - mix and match - and add a melta while your at it.

No we didnt because only basic ten man infantry squads combine.

RogueMarket wrote:IDK if anyone notice this combination.



(USE THE COMBINE SQUAD RULE)

100 pt squad

5x Command Squad –
-4x Flamers
6x Special Weapons Squad
-3x flamers


Throw them in a chimera - mix and match - and add a melta while your at it.

Sorry dude. Combine only works with regular platoons. No Commmand, HVys, conscripts, special..etc. Just basic line platoons.

haha you are right - damn i wasn't reading the exacts of the wording.

nonetheless - its still time to bust out a lot of flamers no doubt?

RogueMarket wrote:You'd have to be stationary to shoot all three lol.

No you don't, Vendettas are Fast.

Maybe this is just my wishful thinking but it says up to 3 guardsmen in a special weapons squad must swap their lasguns for a special weapon, and then lists the options. However the demo-charge doesnt say replace a weapon, just take it. Can I take 3 demo charges and give those guys special weapons too?

Neconilis wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:You'd have to be stationary to shoot all three lol.

No you don't, Vendettas are Fast.

might have a brain fart.. i apologize (dont rip me apart folks!)

even if you could move and shoot all three - move 6'' tops?

I mean. for sure.. yo can't move 12'' and fire al lascannons... can you?


i need to re read my rulebook...



edit:
ah yeah - so you can move 6'', but it till wont give you any cover save... right. so..

CplPunishment wrote:It's a real shame that shotguns have so few uses. Back in 3rd edition when rapid fire weapons could only shoot once after moving, shotguns were the obvious choice for mobile forces. Now a days with rapid fire weapons shooting twice after movement, shotguns are pretty useless.

It would help if GW would make all shotguns S4 like the SM scouts have now.

RogueMarket wrote:

Neconilis wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:You'd have to be stationary to shoot all three lol.

No you don't, Vendettas are Fast.

might have a brain fart.. i apologize (dont rip me apart folks!)

even if you could move and shoot all three - move 6'' tops?

I mean. for sure.. yo can't move 12'' and fire al lascannons... can you?


i need to re read my rulebook...



edit:
ah yeah - so you can move 6'', but it till wont give you any cover save... right. so..

Exactly. The way to get multiple firing guns out of a fast flying aircraft here is to take the Valkyrie and rocket pods.

Fire the multi laser as the main weapon add two s4 large blasts as defensive weapons on the side. I am not buying the hype for the Vendetta, its good as a throwaway strike vehicle for 130pts move 6" fire once at the land raider hopefully make the kill then die. Valkyrie has a purpose, move a good ways do its transport duties and shoot useful amounts of firepower while maintaining a cover save. Sadly this also costs 130pts done right and Guard are not exactly short of low strength weaponry or pie plates; still its an ork killer. Heavy bolters are cheap at +10pts for two, but again they will drop your aircraft to a 6" move.

Or you could deep strike and then fire all three. That might work.

Scottywan82 wrote:Or you could deep strike and then fire all three. That might work.

Deep Striking vehicles count as moving at Cruising speed. Only 1 main weapon allowed.

The Vendetta survives early turns either through target saturation (which of these 9 AV 12 vehicles are you going to shoot?), or by using the Scout move to get way out on a flank, where the 48" lascannons can work without too much molestation from shorter-ranged return fire.

I am thinking the Vendettas will be fun in a squad of 2, maybe with something inside, waiting in reserves. With your +1 to reserve rolls they sally in on a short board edge 6", pop some rear/side armor for so long as they live, and if your opponant allows them to make it to turn 5, they zip over and contest something awkward to reach. With an infantry unit inside to score, and only moving 6", you can even ninja an objective while not worrying if the vehicle gets smoked.

I am thinking that guard will have a very strong ability to land shots on rear armor, meaning only monoliths and landraiders are safe from their outflanking (relatively speaking).

Wehrkind wrote:I am thinking the Vendettas will be fun in a squad of 2, maybe with something inside, waiting in reserves. With your +1 to reserve rolls they sally in on a short board edge 6", pop some rear/side armor for so long as they live, and if your opponant allows them to make it to turn 5, they zip over and contest something awkward to reach. With an infantry unit inside to score, and only moving 6", you can even ninja an objective while not worrying if the vehicle gets smoked.

I am looking forward to seeing other IG players figure out where to put the Vendettas when they only move 6" from the table edge. Does that even allow the model's base onto the table? I foresee a lot of guys putting a marker on the table to show the forward edge of the Vendetta while their expensive and pretty model remains somewhere safe.

I agree that they will make opponents with armor very uncomfortable. The all infantry armies (gaunts, ork hordes, 200+ IG, Necron foot) will probably cackle in amusement, but I see those armies more and more infrequently. Perhaps they'll make a comeback? Nah, too difficult to move and tote for tourney games.

According to the French summary the 'Fusil a pompe' is still S3.

Shotguns are confirmed at S3. No need to look at the leaked sheet anymore.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:According to the French summary the 'Fusil a pompe' is still S3.

Yes, I know. And so is the Escopeta in the Spanish version. I still think S3 shotguns serve a purpose but only on Hardened Veteran Sergeants who get one for free and have no other cheap option except CCW and laspistol. Too bad GW didn't include a shotgun in the command squad sprues. Hello Forge World!

A Priest can also get a shotgun. I just like the image of Friar Tuck with a pump-action. "IN THE EMPEROR'S NAME! *shick-shick*"