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ph34r wrote:I really want to think of a use that could justify Lukas Bastonne, for 60 points more than a normal vet sergeant, all he gets is a power sword (hope you never have to use it), good leadership and rallying (semi useful), and a hotshot laspistol (don't really care). Then you just end up paying, basically, 50 points for one order on your veteran squad. I could get an entire command squad for 50 points, complete with veteran guardsmen and 2 orders.

Making them re-roll coversaves from the Demo charge might be useful. That's all I got.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Cerberus (I refuse to call it the 'Devil Dog') is cheaper than the Banewolf, and doesn't have to get into Krak Grenade/Power Fist range to use its guns.

But the Melta Cannon is small blast and will only hit 1/3 of the time, I don't think its reliable enough to be a counter-charge unit. True the Banewolf will be in Grenade/Fist range, but they'd be hitting on 6's and its possible you could "torrent of fire" out the Fist before it swings.

Personally I think with Guard BS, small blast weapons (unless fired enmasse) aren't statistically reliable enough to be counted on when making decisions in-game.

Edit 1: Unrelated to above discussion but Straken gives Grey Knight Terminators Furious Charge Yeah, no Ogryns for me.

Edit 2: Add a Priest to the Termies for a Chaplin-like effect and help them out vs Vehicles.

kadun wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Cerberus (I refuse to call it the 'Devil Dog') is cheaper than the Banewolf, and doesn't have to get into Krak Grenade/Power Fist range to use its guns.

But the Melta Cannon is small blast and will only hit 1/3 of the time, I don't think its reliable enough to be a counter-charge unit. True the Banewolf will be in Grenade/Fist range, but they'd be hitting on 6's and its possible you could "torrent of fire" out the Fist before it swings.

Personally I think with Guard BS, small blast weapons (unless fired enmasse) aren't statistically reliable enough to be counted on when making decisions in-game.

Completely agree. A BS4 melta squad firing out of a chimera is the way to go.

Banewolf seems pretty cool to me - between the turret and its H.flamer it stands a good chance of killing most of a marine squad, and the couple that survive should be easy enough for some infantry or chimeras to mop up. Even if you only get one good shot in before you are popped, it might still be worth it if its a marine command squad or assault squad that takes the templates.

kadun wrote:Edit 1: Unrelated to above discussion but Straken gives Grey Knight Terminators Furious Charge Yeah, no Ogryns for me.

*evil cackle*

Oh that's fantastic. Talk about 'Unforseen Consequences'. LOL!

Are you sure its not "all guard units" - I don't think that kind of special rule would work with allied units from another list.

i don't think the "Cerberus" or the Banewolf will cause the terror that the "Nerfhound" did. people use to put it near the top of the target priority list. i don't feel the 2 new ones cause the same reaction, making them even worth less than Vets in chimeras with meltas.

Edit 1: Unrelated to above discussion but Straken gives Grey Knight Terminators Furious Charge Yeah, no Ogryns for me.

(Blinks while getting sudden revelation ) Emperor have mercy! Get Straken to lead the posse, send Marbo to nuke the enemy HQ and the allied Grey Knights to perform "force recon" Catachan style . Where did I put my Grey Knights? Thanks! This idea is just beautifull.

Kujo wrote:Are you sure its not "all guard units" - I don't think that kind of special rule would work with allied units from another list.

Here is the exact wording -

Cold Steel and Courage: Friendly units within 12" of Straken have the Counter-Attack and Furious Charge universal special rules. This includes Colonel Straken and his Command Squad. - Codex: Arbitrary, Page 60

Grey Knights seem pretty friendly to me...

@ Kujo
it says "all friendly units...", so i'd say he's correct about the GK Termies!

damn, ninja'd by the master!

duplicate!

I guess that's one of those "FAQ IT!" moments where they decide to just shrug and leave it for a later date.

Are you kidding? I doubt they even considered it. Hell, I doubt they'll even realise until someone like points it out to them.

And hey, that's only true until the new Inquisition codex comes out in 2013, after Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Another Space Marine Chapter, Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos Legions, 6th edition, and 6th edition Space Marines...

and then when someone does point it out it'll be the next Codex before they fix it. and when they fix it, they'll screw up 2 other issues that weren't broken before the first correction was made.... it's almost like they're stuck in a bad loop, always repeating the past. in one form or another.

edit
God i'm slow today! ninja'd by Polonius! that's it i need more coffee.

The best thing is that GW takes so long to FAQ anything, even if it is an unintended usage of that ability that they absolutely hate we'll still be able to use it for about 2 years.

Anything that gives life ( even if unintentionally ) to the ancient, geriatric DH/WH is a big boon. Both armies are de facto neglected by GW. Even in Apocalypse the attention they have received is minimal. I will just thank the Emperor for small favors.

Or perhaps it won't be an issue after inquisition gets redone and there are no allies anymore.

116. Hold on? Where are the pictures? I thought the whole point of the Wargear section was for new players to be able to see what weapons are what easily, as well as presenting the rules for all the weapons in the Codex. So this section does neither of these things. I guess Jervis' son knows what a Lascannon is now.

They don't need to include pictures since they didn't bother to include those weapons in the damn infantry box!

Sigh. I just know I'm going to do a whole IG force out of Wargames Factory greatcoat infantry or Perry Napolionics. Just to show them.

If Straken's FC applies to all friendlies, then what about things like Kroot? Sisters? Sentinels (I4 S6 on the charge)? How about friendly units not in your list, list if you are playing with chaos, marines, ork, or nids on your team? Damn, now I've got to go through the list of allies I can take and see what can be exploited.

Yes to everything. Play Apoc. Take lots of Strakens. Go to town.

I think I just wet myself with the prospect of Straken+GK Terminators.

Was able to have a peek and not sitting down and totally devouring it it looks like it was purposely put in wording so that Grey Knights would benefit and be even more so used in Imperial Guard armies.

Especially considering some of the just insane rules.

Just a few interesting combos.

Add a Primaris Psyker as a Independent Character to a Greyknight Squad; use nightshroud.

Now the enemy has to pass two tests in order to fire at them. One for Nightshroud a Leadership test ; One for the Greyknights ability.

Add in that Orders work on FRIENDLY units; IE you can I assume give an order to a Greyknight squad and I am assuming have them Automatically pass it.

Pretty impressive.

Well, that's one place in the book where an arbitrary restriction would be welcome, and wouldn't you know it, there is no such rule anywhere!

Been doing the math for a while now, trying to build lists on paper to match my collection and the kind of lists I took earlier. The new book doesn't really let me take any more models than before, and several options are completely infeasible. I won't be able to fit even my token Ogryn squad at under 1750 points.

Yeah the furious charge is just one of the benefits Greyknights can benefit from.

Here you go this is something that is kind of slowed.

Creed
Creed and Command in Valkyrie.


Greyknight HQ Terms w/ Dedicated Landraider Crusader.

Landraider recieves scout ; Moves 12 ; your turn Moves 12 Valkyries Follow behind deploy Command

Congrats 8 S6 PW Terminators w/ on the first Turn.


Thats also not alot of points.

Now add in that you can have special weapons multiple advisors. Etc..

Also go ahead and place a Greykngiht normal Squad in that 2nd and 3rd Valkyrie. They have Scout already.


Congrats

You now have 2 units of Greyknights in H to H on most likely the first turn add in that you can have another squad of Terminators in H t H.

Hurraaaay.

IE you can I assume give an order to a Greyknight squad and I am assuming have them Automatically pass it.

Why would they automatically pass it -- taking orders is a leadership test not a morale test.

Interesting combo is Al'Rahem's order and greyknights or ogryn. Basically gives em fleet as long as they shoot. Too bad Al-rahem has to outflank.

Hollismason wrote:Thats also not alot of points.

I think this sentence is a ruinous lie when applied to anything Grey Knight related, doubly so to a Brother Captain with a retinue mounted on a Land Raider.

Greyknight HQ Terms w/ Dedicated Landraider Crusader.

Landraider recieves scout

Grey Knights have no dedicated transports. Only inquistors can take land raiders as dedicated transports.

I want to put up a couple of clarifications that I noticed when i got to take a look at the book.

Some of this stuff is conflicting on the net. This is from the english codex....

command squads CAN issue orders and fire their guns, they can issue orders to themselves.

Units that pass a leadership check on double ones to receive an order can NOT receive an additional order. The officer that issued the order may issue an additional order that turn. Upon passing with a double one the unit that passed stilll immediately executes the order.

Nothing happens to any unit if a double 6 is rolled on an order. It is basically exactly like battlefleet gothic. If a double 6 is rolled, that order fails, and no more orders may be issued that turn. All units, including the one that rolled double 6's may act normally.


The commissar in the troop unit acts slightly different than it sounded based on the internet.

He is leadership 9, makes the unit stubborn AND has summary execution. Summary execution took a nerf, but it really saves us from 'no retreat' wounds.

Basically, you can use the commissar's leadership of 9 straight away now. If you fail that 9 for moral only (not to pass an order or to be pinned or regroup) He executes the model with the highest leadership. They put a parenthesis to clarify that he will never execute himself. If you have a tie, it is randomly determined. Be careful here with sergeants with different upgrades. You won't be able to choose which sergeant dies. Once he executes that model, the unit may RE-ROLL the morale test. This is obviously not as good as 'assumed to pass'. But the problem with 'assumed to pass' is that its automatic and thus triggers 'no retreat'.

One other note on summary execution. Since it is now a re-roll to morale tests, you can't use the flag to also re-roll. But could you trigger the flag re-roll before the commissar summarily executed someone? Probably not. I believe the summary exececution triggers immediately after a fail, so their wouldn't be any time for you to use wargear before he shot someone.

Couldn't find the points of a couple things on the net so I looked them up. The regimental standard and each bodyguard are one point less than a space marine.

btw, played a cities of death game with a choppy command squad for fun. Beat a terminator unit with it (non storm shielded). I had company commander with power fist, medic, regimental standard and two bodyguards. I kept washing power fist wounds through the refractor field and on a fail I'd assign to a bodyguard. I'm guessing that the unit could SHRED combat squads with that combination and probably much larger units as well.

Consdiering the basic price of basic imperial guard ; greyknights are a excellent addition.

Alot of people keep mentioning the price increase in tanks but; your basic troops have been reduced.

Edit:

How about

Creed + Command Squad + Astropath

3 Demolishers outflanking because of Scout

2 Squads of Greyknights in Vendettas Outflanking because of scout and being able to deepstrike out of a vendetta ( Troops leaving auto get this )

I fear the outflanking Demolishers.