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 KingCracker wrote:
The Killkannon is 70pts for a 24inch str7 weapon, thats why it sucks. Its got no range and is REALLY pricey. So its 70 points for anti troop, something we definitely dont need help with, on an already 90pt chassis + upgrades. Gee.....I wonder why it sucks?

If it were Str 8 it would be infinitely better for the points, if it had longer range even better! but... well it just plain sucks for it's primary purpose ... a delivery system. But hey, if you know any LRBT's that are comfortable being within 24 inches of the enemy in which to promptly be assaulted and naded please let me know

Forge World 'fixed' the Kill Kannon in Imperial Armour 8 with the introduction of the Supa Kannon.

10 points more but..

S9, 60" range, AP3 , Large Blast, Ordnance.

Thus,

1) it can shoot things a long way away which makes up for the fact Ordnance slows the wagon down
2) It hurts what it hits: no Feel no pain and lots of instakill, and much better odds vs vehicles.

doiwnsides:

1) it still gets out-ranged by a russ
2) the choice of transport is based on the risk of exposure of the weaker side armour.
3) fired by an ork so less likely to be accurate
4) ForgeWorld.. so people may say no to it...

cool looking gun though.. I have two.

Everyone in my area tends to run without FW rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ailaros, maybe you should go run a bunch of them, and then come back with Bat Reps to prove your point. Instead of arguing theory with people who obviously don't believe you, bring the proof.

MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote:
Forge World 'fixed' the Kill Kannon in Imperial Armour 8 with the introduction of the Supa Kannon.

10 points more but..

S9, 60" range, AP3 , Large Blast, Ordnance.

The Orks actually have a fun progression going on with our "Kannons". Basically each gun has +1 S and more range.

Kill Kannon - S7 AP3 Large Blast Ordinance 24"
Boom Gun - S8 AP3 Large Blast Ordinance 36"
SupaKannon - S9 AP3 Large Blast Ordinance 60"

I agree that the SupaKannon is great, and if the Kill Kannon had the SupaKannon's stats, we'd see it used more often. I'd reduce the cost of Kill Kannon by 25 points, and allow a SupaKannon for about the same price as the Kill Kannon is now.

The Boom Gun is much improved in 6th Edition, but unfortunately it's still strapped to an AV11 vehicle that takes up a Heavy Support slot just for one of them and doesn't work 1/6 of the time.

A battlecannon is not a lot better at destroying vehicles. Against AV12, a hit is causing a penetrating hit half the time. The killcannon does this about a third of the time. Both have crummy Ap, so it's only wrecking 1/6th of the time. Neither are very likely to blow up a vehicle here.

Yes, a battlewagon does need to get closer, but a 30" threat range still reaches into your opponent's DZ turn 1. I mean, if this was such a big deal, no one would ever field demolishers or vindicators. Plus, you're not just getting closer for the sake of getting closer, you're getting closer to transport MANZ or scoring units on to objectives.

Yes, I've never played with them, but we don't need to have a tiny anecdotal data set to be able to reason this out. The mindless hate against this unit just doesn't make sense. All I'm seeing is entrenched views and self-pity. Especially you, Jidmah, you seem to have a seriously negative view on practically everything in the ork codex from these past many pages. Perhaps you need a break from orks to restore your morale.

What everyone should do, after their first post against (or for!) something, but before their second, is play 3 games with the unit in question, in various quantities- Single, Double, and As Many As Possible. One game can be a fluke, two games is unfamiliarity. Three will tell if it's either Bad, Good, Situational or Decent.

Why? What will a tiny anecdotal data set tell us?

Are we not men of reason?

Ailaros, I understand what you're trying to say, but the fact of the matter is that the KillKannon is a lot nicer on paper than it is in reality. Trust me, I've used them several times. They never devastate like you think they would. I can go back and reiterate all the points that Jidmah, I, and others have made, but it'd just be repeating myself.

The KillKannon is an overpriced, underpowered gun that can only be installed on a vehicle that is better meant for transporting units than firing weapons.

Like Jidmah said though, I think the KillKannon has more potential on a Mega Dread. For 175 points you get an AV13 walker with a 5++ save with a KillKannon and a couple of extra weapons tacked on. A walker which can lumber forwards into short range without fear of being assaulted on its rear armor, or taking side hits from lascannons at AV12, and a walker that doesn't have to choose between Deffrolling, dropping off troops, and firing a KillKannon.

 Ailaros wrote:
Especially you, Jidmah, you seem to have a seriously negative view on practically everything in the ork codex from these past many pages. Perhaps you need a break from orks to restore your morale.

That's twice now that you have suggested Jidmah quit playing Orks because you don't like his attitude. Whereas Jidmah has been nothing but rational and has explained in detail all his opinions without responding in kind. Maybe you should stop? It's rude. It gets the discussion no where. It makes you appear juvenile.

Truth of the matter is, he's been a much more constructive contributor to this thread than you, and maybe, instead of trying to rationalize the unit to everyone and getting mad when they don't agree, you could drop it, go play the game you want to play, and let everyone else play the game they want to play.

 Ailaros wrote:
I mean, if this was such a big deal, no one would ever field demolishers or vindicators.

Except that a Demolisher canon is S10 AP2...... If the Killkanon was S10 AP2, I *really* wouldn't care about its pitiful range.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, you're not just getting closer for the sake of getting closer, you're getting closer to transport MANZ or scoring units on to objectives

Putting a Killkanon on a Wagon that is transporting MANZ into combat is probably the biggest "mistake" anyone can do with this codex.

You should really try to PLAY Orks before you come to talk about them and insult those who actually have an experience with them.

alright guys lets chill out about this. Obviously we've reached an impass. We've argued this to death. Please, let's quit muckin about before this thread gets locked and just agree to disagree.

That would be nice... Please people, I'd like an answer to a question I asked a month ago.

If your ork vehicle comes from reserve, can you use a boarding plank to make CC attacks on the turn the vehicle arrived?

I'd love to hear you guys about this.

 Bonzofever wrote:
That would be nice... Please people, I'd like an answer to a question I asked a month ago.

If your ork vehicle comes from reserve, can you use a boarding plank to make CC attacks on the turn the vehicle arrived?

I'd love to hear you guys about this.

Yes, It is not an "assault" you are just using a upgrade to make a CC attack against a vehicle.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Bonzofever wrote:
That would be nice... Please people, I'd like an answer to a question I asked a month ago.

If your ork vehicle comes from reserve, can you use a boarding plank to make CC attacks on the turn the vehicle arrived?

I'd love to hear you guys about this.

Yes, It is not an "assault" you are just using a upgrade to make a CC attack against a vehicle.

Actually I believe the boarding plank does say the attack is an assault, but you dont have to leave the vehicle, to charge and assault if a vehicle is within 2". So, I play- if your not in a situation to charge and assault a vehicle normally, you can't use boarding plank to assault a vehicle from within an ork vehicle. Since you can't charge when you come in from reserves, you can't use boarding plank. I wish/hope im wrong.

Nym wrote:Except that a Demolisher canon is S10 AP2...... If the Killkanon was S10 AP2, I *really* wouldn't care about its pitiful range.

And my point is that it's not the range that you care about, it's the S and Ap. There shouldn't be a confusion between range and the rest of the statline. Just having lower strength doesn't make the range any shorter.

matphat wrote:That's twice now that you have suggested Jidmah quit playing Orks because you don't like his attitude.

I'm not alone in this, I mean...

 KingCracker wrote:
Jidmah, I think youre loosing your mind lately, that or the changes in 6th have pissed you off so badly that you are blinded. Im sorry man, Whats your deal lately?

You can be both reasonable and hopelessly depressed about something at the same time. I mean, we're talking about someone who has said in the past couple of days that they don't like kanz, and doesn't like buggies, and doesn't like manz, and doesn't like dreds, and doesn't artillery, and doesn't like slugga boyz, and doesn't like ammo runts, and doesn't killcannon BWs.

... and that snap firing lootas are worthless, and orks can't be an assaulty army, and that green tide is dead, and that lists based around trukks are dead.

Or, to put it in his own words:

 Jidmah wrote:
Many people aren't that fond of the new dakka-orks, and even I find myself preferring doing something else over playing 40k right now. Winning games without a single assault feels wrong - and boring.

A person can be as articulate as they want, but if they're not being helpful, then what's the point?

You can make a very reasoned argument for why everything but lootaz aren't worth taking, and how orks suck and you can't do what you want with them anymore, but what does that really get the ork community? How does it help people use the units they want to use, or have fun playing orks? A bad attitude over all isn't a good thing, and it has the tendency to drag others down with it. I mean, just look at the dakka tau community...

Actually I believe the boarding plank does say the attack is an assault, but you dont have to leave the vehicle, to charge and assault if a vehicle is within 2". So, I play- if your not in a situation to charge and assault a vehicle normally, you can't use boarding plank to assault a vehicle from within an ork vehicle. Since you can't charge when you come in from reserves, you can't use boarding plank. I wish/hope im wrong.

As I mentioned earlier, it says in the boarding plank : "as if the Ork were disembarked and charging" ... and since you can't assault when coming from reserve, I think you cannot use the plank.

That's sad ...

 valminder wrote:

Actually I believe the boarding plank does say the attack is an assault, but you dont have to leave the vehicle, to charge and assault if a vehicle is within 2". So, I play- if your not in a situation to charge and assault a vehicle normally, you can't use boarding plank to assault a vehicle from within an ork vehicle. Since you can't charge when you come in from reserves, you can't use boarding plank. I wish/hope im wrong.

As I mentioned earlier, it says in the boarding plank : "as if the Ork were disembarked and charging" ... and since you can't assault when coming from reserve, I think you cannot use the plank.

That's sad ...

Yeah, I can even see that image of a orc trukk flying into the battle, with a PK armed nob hanging over the side. "Little closer Lads!" <KABOOM> Waaaagh! heh

 Ailaros wrote:

Nym wrote:Except that a Demolisher canon is S10 AP2...... If the Killkanon was S10 AP2, I *really* wouldn't care about its pitiful range.

And my point is that it's not the range that you care about, it's the S and Ap. There shouldn't be a confusion between range and the rest of the statline. Just having lower strength doesn't make the range any shorter.

matphat wrote:That's twice now that you have suggested Jidmah quit playing Orks because you don't like his attitude.

I'm not alone in this, I mean...

 KingCracker wrote:
Jidmah, I think youre loosing your mind lately, that or the changes in 6th have pissed you off so badly that you are blinded. Im sorry man, Whats your deal lately?

You can be both reasonable and hopelessly depressed about something at the same time. I mean, we're talking about someone who has said in the past couple of days that they don't like kanz, and doesn't like buggies, and doesn't like manz, and doesn't like dreds, and doesn't artillery, and doesn't like slugga boyz, and doesn't like ammo runts, and doesn't killcannon BWs.

... and that snap firing lootas are worthless, and orks can't be an assaulty army, and that green tide is dead, and that lists based around trukks are dead.

Or, to put it in his own words:

 Jidmah wrote:
Many people aren't that fond of the new dakka-orks, and even I find myself preferring doing something else over playing 40k right now. Winning games without a single assault feels wrong - and boring.

A person can be as articulate as they want, but if they're not being helpful, then what's the point?

You can make a very reasoned argument for why everything but lootaz aren't worth taking, and how orks suck and you can't do what you want with them anymore, but what does that really get the ork community? How does it help people use the units they want to use, or have fun playing orks? A bad attitude over all isn't a good thing, and it has the tendency to drag others down with it. I mean, just look at the dakka tau community...

Oh, awsome, two posts of bashing me without me answering in between? I'm honored.
Bonus points for using KC's quote completely out of context.

I'll just quote something for truth:

 Nym wrote:
You should really try to PLAY Orks before you come to talk about them and insult those who actually have an experience with them.

I might not be playing orks over a decade like some people here, but I have a couple of hundred games under my belt, add the other peoples disagreeing with you and you get a couple of thousand games against your one anecdotal game where killkannons worked.

Is someone who...
1) ... thinks 10 Ork boyz in a trukk is a good idea
2) ... does not know that KFF and combi-skorchas are mutually exclusive on a big mek
3) ... does not know that a battlewagon can't move 12" and shoot a blast weapon
4) ... completely ignores the issue of side-armor on battlewagons
5) ... completely ignores the issue of exploding vehicles killing half the ork passengers
6) ... picks red paint over a reinforced rams on trukks
really fit to tell more experienced players how to play their army? Those are not beginner's errors. Every single one of those screams about how you never played a serious game using an ork army.

Not to mention that, just on the 25th of September, you explicitly wrote that you are not an ork player. How much experience could you have gotten within one month?

I assure you that every single one of my points has come from me putting the exact models I'm talking about on the table, not once but five, ten or twenty times, and seeing how they do. I really wanted Kanz to work in 6th. I lost a lot of games when trying to make them work. They don't. Same for killkannons. I tried to make them work - they look awesome. But they suck. Hard. Even with perfect hits on power armored marine units they don't impress. They fail to kill units of pink horrors. They fail to kill necron warriors. They fail to kill plague marines. The fail to kill imperial guardsmen diving for cover. What use as a 150 point model(before upgrades) if it can't even blast one troops choice off an objective? Do you know what does work? Fielding a looted wagon with a boom gun. Not "Awesome I absolutely have to field this!"-works. But it does what you'd expect a vehicle for 105 would do. The boom gun is what a killkannon should have been. Warbikers work. Warpheads don't work. Tank bustaz work. Zzap gunz don't work. Skorcha bommers work. Bliza bommers don't work. SAGs work. You learn this by putting the models on the table, not by looking at their stats. If I got an ork boy everytime someone wrote "the SAG is very random", I could provide everyone I know with an ork army. In practice the SAG isn't random. It's pretty damn reliable mass-destruction weapon against infantry. The only random part is that it will spectacularly end itself in about one out of three games.
If you'd even pay some attention to what I'm posting, you'll find that I don't contribute to things I have no experience with. I don't add to tactics about kommandoz, because I don't own any, and haven't felt the need to borrow them for a game of sixth. I don't contribute to threads on beating dark eldar, because I have only every played dark eldar twice. Part of wisdom is knowing when to shut up.

Oh, and an argument is not "mindless", just because you can't find a single counter-point to my arguments. You resorting to personal attacks is also pretty good indicator of you having absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I actually went back to what I disagreed with you on in the past, and almost every time you popped up with some random idea which is the complete opposite of what all ork players agree on about what is good, you get talked down by 5-10 players, and still refuse to see the point.
Best of: Choppas are better than shootas, cybork is useless on nob bikers, rokkits on boyz are better than lootaz.

I really appreciate you adding opinions, asking question about long-established standards and pointing out rules issues. But you're still not an ork player. Orks work completely different from most armies, applying the logic of another army to them doesn't work, but you are doing exactly that all the time. So please, stop posting advice based on mind games, just to get pissed about people who actually put green-skinned models on 48"x72" tables who disagree with you. We actually point new players to this thread to find tactics. If some new player finds your "Guys, I found the holy grail right in front of your eyes!"-ideas here and actually believe them, they will buy crappy models, lose games and not have fun. All because some IG player is playing ork veteran.
When someone comes to this forum and tells people that he wants to play killkannons the right thing to do is not cooking up some magic lists which won't work anyways, but telling that person that killkannons are terrible and not waste the turret sprue on building it instead of a kannon. People can then decide whether they still want to run a terrible model on purpose.

I'll start taking your advice about orks if you take mine about imperial guard. I think banewolves are awesome and should be played in every list instead of vendettas. In squadrons of three. I know orks would do so if they had the option. Not to mention that they should definitely be painted red.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonzofever wrote:
That would be nice... Please people, I'd like an answer to a question I asked a month ago.

If your ork vehicle comes from reserve, can you use a boarding plank to make CC attacks on the turn the vehicle arrived?

I'd love to hear you guys about this.

Sure, why not? Keep in mind that you cannot use the boarding plank if you moved more than 12" though, so the range is limited.

Phydox wrote:

 valminder wrote:

Actually I believe the boarding plank does say the attack is an assault, but you dont have to leave the vehicle, to charge and assault if a vehicle is within 2". So, I play- if your not in a situation to charge and assault a vehicle normally, you can't use boarding plank to assault a vehicle from within an ork vehicle. Since you can't charge when you come in from reserves, you can't use boarding plank. I wish/hope im wrong.

As I mentioned earlier, it says in the boarding plank : "as if the Ork were disembarked and charging" ... and since you can't assault when coming from reserve, I think you cannot use the plank.

That's sad ...

Yeah, I can even see that image of a orc trukk flying into the battle, with a PK armed nob hanging over the side. "Little closer Lads!" <KABOOM> Waaaagh! heh

Thanks for your answers about boardin' plank guys It seems people are a tad confused about whether it's possible or not. But that sure sounds nice!
"as if the Ork were disembarked and charging" This is a valid point. Too bad the FAQ does no clarify that scenario.

As far as I'm concerned, "as if" doesn't mean "counting as", hence I tend to agree with both Jidmah and sirlynchmob.

On smaller boards this could come in handy. In Apocalypse games, it would be lethal.

 Ailaros wrote:

Nym wrote:Except that a Demolisher canon is S10 AP2...... If the Killkanon was S10 AP2, I *really* wouldn't care about its pitiful range.

And my point is that it's not the range that you care about, it's the S and Ap. There shouldn't be a confusion between range and the rest of the statline. Just having lower strength doesn't make the range any shorter.

Except that S and Ap are nothing without range. Try to play a game with IG where your opponrnt starts 6 inches away from you while you field all the high S weapons on your codex and then let us know hot it went.

 Jidmah wrote:
Many people aren't that fond of the new dakka-orks, and even I find myself preferring doing something else over playing 40k right now. Winning games without a single assault feels wrong - and boring.

A person can be as articulate as they want, but if they're not being helpful, then what's the point?

You can make a very reasoned argument for why everything but lootaz aren't worth taking, and how orks suck and you can't do what you want with them anymore, but what does that really get the ork community? How does it help people use the units they want to use, or have fun playing orks? A bad attitude over all isn't a good thing, and it has the tendency to drag others down with it. I mean, just look at the dakka tau community...

Jidmah is one of the most helpful people on this thread and no one forces to listen to him. Personal attacks however are not welcome by anyone. Let's calm down and keep the party going

OK Lads, lets cool our tongues a bit and take a step back. No need to have months of excellent tactical discussion get locked with a dash of banhammers because of killkannons. MODs dont like being bothered over stupid things like this.



Ailaros - If you think they are that badass, congrats on thinking outside the box. Use them, spam them even, youll soon find out that those points are FAR better spent somewhere else. I personally love FlashGitz, and no one will be able to talk me out of that decision either, but when the general consensus says that a unit sucks or points better spent elsewhere, they are usually right. So lets stop the bitching and move on to more practical discussions like how to kick the asses of our enemies.














On that note, my faith in rokkit buggies is being restored once more. Granted, they arnt NEARLY as badass as they were in 5th, but they are still a nice, cheap reliable way to spam TL rokkits. Our group is doing a campaign that takes place on a poor poor Imperial world, and my boyz are the main antagonists. So we will have a few LARGE battles that require me taking hold of entire cities, so our matches there will hit 2K+ and we all know what that means..... DOUBLE FOC!!!! So in one of my thoughts, I can take 4 or 5 x3 units of rokkit buggies in my build. 12 TL rokkit buggies! That sounds awesome, specially when you realize thats just over 400 to 500 points. Ideas? Thoughts?

I have a question about manz. Which ones should I buy the rocket, flamer or shoota. Anyone know why their sold individually instead of squads like termi's

Because GW likes to make a crap load of money off good units. Mark my words, in our next dex, MANz are going to be fething gold.



And to answer your question, since wound allocation is gone, take skorchas. Why you ask? Because you can then WoD anything that assaults your MANz. OR if they arnt assaulted or it doesnt look like they are getting jumped on, you can burn the pooh out of the unit your about to charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thats Wall of Death. BTW

 KingCracker wrote:
And to answer your question, since wound allocation is gone, take skorchas. Why you ask? Because you can then WoD anything that assaults your MANz. OR if they arnt assaulted or it doesnt look like they are getting jumped on, you can burn the pooh out of the unit your about to charge.

Yes, go for kombi-skorchas with your MANz, they are far more useful than kombi-RL. So far I've NEVER (mark my word) hit something with a one-shot RL.

 KingCracker wrote:
On that note, my faith in rokkit buggies is being restored once more. Granted, they arnt NEARLY as badass as they were in 5th, but they are still a nice, cheap reliable way to spam TL rokkits. Our group is doing a campaign that takes place on a poor poor Imperial world, and my boyz are the main antagonists. So we will have a few LARGE battles that require me taking hold of entire cities, so our matches there will hit 2K+ and we all know what that means..... DOUBLE FOC!!!! So in one of my thoughts, I can take 4 or 5 x3 units of rokkit buggies in my build. 12 TL rokkit buggies! That sounds awesome, specially when you realize thats just over 400 to 500 points. Ideas? Thoughts?

Double FOC sounds great but most of the time it's only good for additional HQ and Heavy Support slots, or being able to play a couple flyers without ruining your Fast Attack slots
However, Buggy spam is a cool way to take advantage of this opportunity, though they might die pretty fast when it comes to 2K+ games. The bright side: block LoS and shoooot!
It's easy to find gorkamorka trukks and you can customize them with rokkits from the Dakkajet kit, so money-wise this is a good investment, too.

I tend to make my MANZ nekkid because the skorcha isn't amazing... however... it is the much better weapon to me without overwatch the skorcha lost most of it's teeth because by the time i get my MANZ close enough to the enemy i don't want to screw it up by wiping them with fire and making my charge range even further. Just a thought Otherwise if it's like marines or 3+ armor hell ya good choice of a weapon but for only 5 pts you best make it work for you .

 Bonzofever wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
And to answer your question, since wound allocation is gone, take skorchas. Why you ask? Because you can then WoD anything that assaults your MANz. OR if they arnt assaulted or it doesnt look like they are getting jumped on, you can burn the pooh out of the unit your about to charge.

Yes, go for kombi-skorchas with your MANz, they are far more useful than kombi-RL. So far I've NEVER (mark my word) hit something with a one-shot RL.

 KingCracker wrote:
On that note, my faith in rokkit buggies is being restored once more. Granted, they arnt NEARLY as badass as they were in 5th, but they are still a nice, cheap reliable way to spam TL rokkits. Our group is doing a campaign that takes place on a poor poor Imperial world, and my boyz are the main antagonists. So we will have a few LARGE battles that require me taking hold of entire cities, so our matches there will hit 2K+ and we all know what that means..... DOUBLE FOC!!!! So in one of my thoughts, I can take 4 or 5 x3 units of rokkit buggies in my build. 12 TL rokkit buggies! That sounds awesome, specially when you realize thats just over 400 to 500 points. Ideas? Thoughts?

Double FOC sounds great but most of the time it's only good for additional HQ and Heavy Support slots, or being able to play a couple flyers without ruining your Fast Attack slots
However, Buggy spam is a cool way to take advantage of this opportunity, though they might die pretty fast when it comes to 2K+ games. The bright side: block LoS and shoooot!
It's easy to find gorkamorka trukks and you can customize them with rokkits from the Dakkajet kit, so money-wise this is a good investment, too.

Buggies are great for AV10 spam. Thats 3 buggies per slot, so even though they will die easy, there will be a TON of them to shoot down. Taking 4 or 5 slots worth, will still leave me 1 or 2 slots for DAKKAjets/bommas which I think would come into their own in higher point games. Smaller games I dont much see the point, but bigger games, having a STR7 melta basically would do wonders on popping tough vehicles. And lets not forget if it crashes into a unit with a mighty explosion would be epic

Also, Orks and rokkit buggies have this weird thing, where the FA slot can be more effective as anti vehicle then the heavy support can be. I mean, thats an assload of rokkits hammering your opponents vehicles. They are super mobile biggunz w/kannons basically


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
I tend to make my MANZ nekkid because the skorcha isn't amazing... however... it is the much better weapon to me without overwatch the skorcha lost most of it's teeth because by the time i get my MANZ close enough to the enemy i don't want to screw it up by wiping them with fire and making my charge range even further. Just a thought Otherwise if it's like marines or 3+ armor hell ya good choice of a weapon but for only 5 pts you best make it work for you .

Agreed, Id personally in most cases, not fire the skorcha and save it for a counter charge. Because I know I wouldn't just throw away MANz, so whatever they are attacking, they will more then likely kick its teef in. And in that situation, many people would be waiting for them to come out on top in the assault. Then once they pounce, POOF! WoD

 KingCracker wrote:

On that note, my faith in rokkit buggies is being restored once more. Granted, they arnt NEARLY as badass as they were in 5th, but they are still a nice, cheap reliable way to spam TL rokkits. Our group is doing a campaign that takes place on a poor poor Imperial world, and my boyz are the main antagonists. So we will have a few LARGE battles that require me taking hold of entire cities, so our matches there will hit 2K+ and we all know what that means..... DOUBLE FOC!!!! So in one of my thoughts, I can take 4 or 5 x3 units of rokkit buggies in my build. 12 TL rokkit buggies! That sounds awesome, specially when you realize thats just over 400 to 500 points. Ideas? Thoughts?

and they're only 10 more points then bikes. Well, the tl big shootas are. If its city fighting, maybe skorchas and burnas would pay off. You could give a mek in the unit the custom mega blasta for a plasma shot vs vehicles. Also, think some deffkoptas may payoff to flyover buildings rather then get bottlenecked in city w/ buggies? Even lobbas may be nice.

I always wanted to do a deffkopta vs buggies debate.

I agree w/ KC if theyre coming out with a "rumored" plastic MANZ box, they're gonna be really good. Of course, the trade off will be Lootas stink, cause they've made their money there.

Lootas might actually go to the heavy support section, like they are supposed to be in Dont get me wrong, I love lootas as much as the next guy, but these things stink of heavy support, not elites. Also the rule of thumb is, look at units that suck last codex/edition, and no one used. Chances are good they will become much better......though stormboyz still suck hard lol

 KingCracker wrote:
Lootas might actually go to the heavy support section, like they are supposed to be in Dont get me wrong, I love lootas as much as the next guy, but these things stink of heavy support, not elites. Also the rule of thumb is, look at units that suck last codex/edition, and no one used. Chances are good they will become much better......though stormboyz still suck hard lol

ARGH why do so many Ork players argue that Lootas should be Heavy Support! From a pure fluff perspective yes I agree they SOUND like they should be Heavy Support. But why not Tankbustas too? And why do Orks have Kans and Dreads in Heavy Support when most other armies have their Walkers as Elites? It's for codex balance!

In the 4th Edition Codex, Lootas are right where they belong, in the Elite slot. They work out great there. In our 6th Edition codex, Lootas shouldn't be in the Heavy Support slot just because they sound like they should go there. They should be in whatever slot works best to balance the codex and allow us to have great combinations of units in our army lists.

Also, in relation to some of the thread drama I'd just like to add that Jidmah is a great Ork player and knows what he's talking about. If you're a new Ork player and you listen to his advice, you'll have more fun and win more games.

If Stormboyz were given just a 5+ armor save in the next codex I'd be so happy. I really need to use them a bit more often in 6th though to get a feel for them. I've only used them once and they crashed and burned simply because of an unlucky die roll. (Zagstrukk deep strike fail)

 KingCracker wrote:
Because GW likes to make a crap load of money off good units. Mark my words, in our next dex, MANz are going to be fething gold.



And to answer your question, since wound allocation is gone, take skorchas. Why you ask? Because you can then WoD anything that assaults your MANz. OR if they arnt assaulted or it doesnt look like they are getting jumped on, you can burn the pooh out of the unit your about to charge.


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Thats Wall of Death. BTW

I thought you couldn't over watch with them because of slow and purposeful. And if you use the scorches won't it put you out of charge range?