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Derp. I forgot about the Mark.

Okay, gotcha. Math is good then.

So, the Knights cannot fall back and shoot anymore? Is that correct or am I missing something?

 Spreelock wrote:
So, the Knights cannot fall back and shoot anymore? Is that correct or am I missing something?

You missed the part where the 9th edition base rules give fall back and shoot to all Titanic units.

Ah, it's all good then. Thanks very much

Just need to be mindful of Armiger variants. Not being titanic. I’ve had a few derpy moments and made plays forgetting that then realised my error.

I think that the biggest problem Knights are facing right now is that 9th edition missions strongly emphasize holding objectives. Knights don't like being stationary, and don't have obsec.

 IHateNids wrote:
I wanna try Castellan, 2x Warglaives, 2x Helverins, and then see what's left

Put together a 1,000 point list with the leaked points:

Crusader Thermal and Ironstorm

2 Helverins with stubbers

1 Wargglaive with melta.

1,000 on the nose.

Trannis, Probably the Tarannis Thermal Cannon or Mark of the Omnissiah for double healing/turn.

Just had my first game pure knights

3 questoris and 4 armigers.

Thoughts


1. I miss that 6th turn to rack up extra points
2. This is still very much a shooty edition. Melee means you move off objectives
3. Knights struggle for good secondaries. Other armies get easy 15VP ones like banner, kill titanic, psychic etc
4. Pure knights lacks the volume of fire, durability and ability to play the missions. Even if your doing respectable moving and killing your opponent can run away with it
5. The fixed board, objectives, and mission is nice.
6. Obscuring terrain- well you would almost wish to be 17 wounds. Tournament organisers will have to specify terrain types cause voting for obscuring terrain is akin to turkies voting for Christmas.
7. Allies might be useful but remains a tricky equation on what to take
8. It’s great to be gaming again



Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Played against tau for reference)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
9. I went second, it’s a first turn game more then ever

Final score 81-63

Then your playing knights wrong. Or foolishly trying to mono them and discovering why you don't if only there was some kind of precedent that knight armies had where they took a few cheap objective holding units....(32, 17)

I'm planning admech+ knights


Purge the enemy objectives are all doable by knights but the best choice may vary based on your opponents list

Warpcraft objectives need allies to unlock id generaly ignore none of them are easy for any army and they are easy to counterplay

No mercy no respite - other than "while we stand" their all doable and attrition is tailor made for a knight heavy list

Supremacy skip domination but the other two are doable in the right list and linebreaker is my personal choice as my knights and allies will hit their deployment zone T1

Shadow operations need allies to unlock again id generally ignore

So straight away mono knights in looking at attrition (auto win), linebreaker and the best kill choice based on my opponents list

Raze and minimise losses are also both acheivable in mono knights with other 4 viable choices with allies



2) if you playing knights you want to be in melee or your not getting value and you will lose the shooting war - and obscuring terrain doesnt matter if your armies are 3" from each other

3) You are trying to win a shoot out vs TAU! A dedicated shooting army when your not a dedicated shooting army. When TAU are easily butchered in melee. Your always going to lose that contest if you play it that way

4) it most definitely isnt a pure shooting edition melee gained a lot of buffs in smaller board sizes and loss of overwatch its not a tagging game anymore but against most lists you want your knights to be attempting the charge T1

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Just had my first game pure knights

3 questoris and 4 armigers.

Thoughts


1. I miss that 6th turn to rack up extra points
2. This is still very much a shooty edition. Melee means you move off objectives
3. Knights struggle for good secondaries. Other armies get easy 15VP ones like banner, kill titanic, psychic etc
4. Pure knights lacks the volume of fire, durability and ability to play the missions. Even if your doing respectable moving and killing your opponent can run away with it
5. The fixed board, objectives, and mission is nice.
6. Obscuring terrain- well you would almost wish to be 17 wounds. Tournament organisers will have to specify terrain types cause voting for obscuring terrain is akin to turkies voting for Christmas.
7. Allies might be useful but remains a tricky equation on what to take
8. It’s great to be gaming again



Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Played against tau for reference)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
9. I went second, it’s a first turn game more then ever

Final score 81-63

Which armigers as they all play very differently.

Don't play a shooting match with Guard or Tau they pay less per gun hence have more and will win.

You seem to have hmsadly also hit the bad spot between not going all in of Questorus plus knight's which are harder to kill with relics etc or going all in on armiger spamming.

U02dah4 is pretry much spot on qith his secondary choices with maybe Abhore the witch being viable vrs certain match ups TS &GK.

Also the objectives are mid board knights should be taking the mid board turn 1 and more than capable of holding it, if having a hard time profitering into CC from holding the objective anyway.

So I went Krast

1 hellverin
3 warglaives
1 preceptor
1 crusader
1 warden

It was hammer and anvil and getting into melee was tricky and against tau sept not exactly fun.

Not sure what to take from Admech. I also think skipping the armigers and just taking 4 big knights would mean you get no primary points. No?

I’m only 1 game into 9th so welcome the criticism.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
So I went Krast

1 hellverin
3 warglaives
1 preceptor
1 crusader
1 warden

It was hammer and anvil and getting into melee was tricky and against tau sept not exactly fun.

Not sure what to take from Admech. I also think skipping the armigers and just taking 4 big knights would mean you get no primary points. No?

I’m only 1 game into 9th so welcome the criticism.

You can still get primary objective points with full bigguns, not much different in ease of scoring than Armigers(no obsec on either).

If you were to ally in Admech, you just take a patrol with some bare Skitarri and a Techpriest(or 2). The benefits are 2-fold: Obsec units to take-and-hold objectives, and the HQ can repair your knights(1 wound/turn, but still). Total Cost for a 1 Priest and 2 skitarri Patrol is only 125 points, add in a second engineseer or a 3rd skitarri unit and you have the cost of an armiger(3rd unit Helverin, second HQ is exactly a Warglaive with Melta).

Anyone else thinking 3 questoris and the rest of your points on an ally might be the way to go in 9e, maybe with transports for you allies? Barebone detachments will just get wiped off the board, and shooting at transports is really not what your opponent wants to be doing when up against 3 knights...

3 drills? Could squeeze that 15 vanguards enginseer and 3 crusaders

Not sure how good that would be though. Might look fun

 grouchoben wrote:
Anyone else thinking 3 questoris and the rest of your points on an ally might be the way to go in 9e, maybe with transports for you allies? Barebone detachments will just get wiped off the board, and shooting at transports is really not what your opponent wants to be doing when up against 3 knights...

3 questoris could be ok

But personnally 2 big and to small seemed more balanced 3 big sounds great in principle but your not making the most of your allies and the CP costs become significantly higher due to relics etc - fine if your allies guard but admech like cp aswell


Im looking at approximately castigator, preceptor and 2 grav/claw moiraxs a couple of maxed out raiders and a little 3 man, 3 vanguards, 1 hoplite, 1 corpuscarii and two enginseers

Good points, well argued, you might be right U02. I too am looking at castigator, preceptor and the rest, probably with SW allies.

what do you guys think about this?

Catchan battalion - emps wrath

2x company commander (1 with kurovs)
1x full payload basilisk
1x wyvern
1x master of ordinance
50 Guardsman

Taranis SHD

Crusader
Crusader
Warden <fist>

Pretty standard

Standard as in worth a punt?

Better than my previous mess?

Well, the tournament rules just leaked. You're not allowed to take specialist detachments at all anymore. That might be a consideration for your Guard patrol.

Yeah, saw that.

Hurts guard more then it does imperial soup though

I used to love hammer of sunderance when I played them

Anyone had the chance to try out some games with 9th rules. Any hot takes? Fun stories?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone had the chance to try out some games with 9th rules. Any hot takes? Fun stories?

Yeah played a few smaller games we decied to try and get scoring ans secondary missions down before jumping to 2k as the games are a bit slower as your trying to learn all the rules.

Objective capping is key, playing agressive can pay of big, the enemy's manovarability will be your biggest challenge aswell as obsec body spam.

Knight's with CP is so good and being an army that likes to fight from the midboard + definataly seems to mesh well with scoring both primary and secondarys.

Nice. I’ve had a couple of games now.

Still haven’t quite figured out what I want to do. What are you planning on running again at 2k?

I've had a few games with IK and CK, running a Castigator and 2 Questoris, with soup of either Space Wolves or World Eaters.

It's really early days but to my mind there are two big elements to 9e missions: holding objectives and denying your opponent's attempts to score. Knights are pretty good at denying, but we'll need other elements for holding and taking.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Nice. I’ve had a couple of games now.

Still haven’t quite figured out what I want to do. What are you planning on running again at 2k?

I'm currently running
2 Warglaives
1 Helverin
1 Preceptor
3 Moriax
Testing Atropose vrs Styrix

A Crusader or Castagator would be the better options but I dont have a Castagator yet and I want to see what happens with the new FW books as I am hoping for some improvement to the performance of a couple of knight's but I'm not hopeful as GW hasn't changed their points since the nerfed them.

I was considering doing the below.

Stygies patrol

1x enginseer
3x vanguard (5 man squad)
3x termite drill

Taranis superheavy

2x crusaders
1x crusader with Ironstorm missile pod (WL)

General plan is to plonk 5 man squads in a drill and have them sit on 2-3 objectives whilst I push my knights up and bring the fight to the enemy

Maybe deepstrike 1 of the drills to be aggressive and just try and hold 2 objectives for a few easy turns

Do you think this could work?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Ice, is it a mix of Moirax or 3 lightning locks?

@grouch. That sounds a lot what space wolves are you managing to squeeze in?

I magnatised my Moriax so I'm able to change them up on the fly during testing

Currently playing them mostly with 1 Lightning lock and either volkite or Grav so far.

I like the Lightning locks for single wound units, the grav is great against Custodes and Gravis. Volkite does a nice consistent number on primaris, but it has issues when you start hitting 3w &/or the 5+FNP nonsense.

I would say the loadout will probably continue to evelove as we start to see what the meta is for 9th.

Castigator 460, Warlord
Preceptor 405
Warden 435 w/endless fury

3 squads of intercessors and ragnar is 425

That leaves 275 - just enough for 2 impulsors or whatever else you think you need.

Interesting


Cheers lads. Food for thought. I’ve got a game this Thursday where I want to try something

Will report how it goes