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No, I am not telling people where to go get it, I'm merely reiterating the fact as stated. 

It's just like the Chaos dex, and we all know how that one turned out.

I had a chance to glance though the leaked Dex recently and it looks pretty good. Lots decent changes and pleanty of cool orky upgrades for things. Looted vehicles are sort of a do-it-yourself vehicle building slot. You start out with a rhino hull for 30 points and you add stuff on from there with goodies like a battle cannon turret. Battle waggons are av 14 in the front and you can get a cool gorka-morka death roller to attach to the front that does damage to troops when you tank shock them. Most vehicles are open toped unless you upgrade them to closed toped.

Zaagstruk isn't as bad as I thought he'd be. His "PK at I value" is only on the charge. Otherwise he's only got a Slugga+Choppa. He can deepstrike + charge, but he's not worth it for his cost anyway. Storm Boyz are so stupidly fast as it is, you don't need him.

The Winners are:

Shoota Boyz Mobz w/ PK Nobz
Trukk Mobz
Storm Boyz
Lootas
Killa Kanz

Other units outright suck (Grots, arguably tankbustas believe it or not), and others are decent and have uses but aren't completely optimal (Deth Koptas).

Battlewagons are nice, but way too expensive once you give them basic upgrades. And no, the ones you take as transports can't take the ordinance guns.

It's got a whole lot of "FUN" units though. Boy does it have a whole lot of fun units.

What I can't understand is why so many special troops are put into their own units with no ablative wounds at all. 15 point lootas and burnas with a 6+ save? 25 point Flash Gitz (4+ save though)?

oh my gork. can't you guys stop whining and be happy about something for once.
"oh, buhu, my mathhammer stragtey for stormboyz didn't work out"

come on guys. it's a new Ork Codex.

A. NEW. ORK. CODEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you may add more !s if you want)


come on, Voodoo, you've played Orks for so long, just be happy for them, okay?



p.s. if that was trolling, I'm sorry, but that had to get out.

Posted By Anung Un Rama on 10/30/2007 3:21 PM
oh my gork. can't you guys stop whining and be happy about something for once.
"oh, buhu, my mathhammer stragtey for stormboyz didn't work out"

come on guys. it's a new Ork Codex.

A. NEW. ORK. CODEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you may add more !s if you want)


come on, Voodoo, you've played Orks for so long, just be happy for them, okay?



p.s. if that was trolling, I'm sorry, but that had to get out.

It has been 10 years!  The codex should be the best thing GW has ever published.  Instead we get the same feeling we all got when we first laid eyes on Jar Jar Binks after 10 years of buildup.

Posted By Anung Un Rama on 10/30/2007 3:21 PM
oh my gork. can't you guys stop whining and be happy about something for once.
"oh, buhu, my mathhammer stragtey for stormboyz didn't work out"

come on guys. it's a new Ork Codex.

A. NEW. ORK. CODEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you may add more !s if you want)


come on, Voodoo, you've played Orks for so long, just be happy for them, okay?



p.s. if that was trolling, I'm sorry, but that had to get out.

Wow, you thought I was complaining?  I wasn't, I'm overjoyed!

Re-reading my post, I don't see how you thought I was complaining, yes there are losers in the codex that absolutely blow, sure.  But that's every codex, and this dex has a good mix of units that are either very good or are decent enough to be fielded in fun, decent armies. 

I'm happier than a squig in Ork poo with this.

Now to start planning purchases and army upgrades.  I think that one unit that was going to be shoota Boyz is now going to get converted into storm boyz using Assault Marine jump packs...

Posted By Xerxes on 10/30/2007 2:58 PM
What I can't understand is why so many special troops are put into their own units with no ablative wounds at all. 15 point lootas and burnas with a 6+ save? 25 point Flash Gitz (4+ save though)?

It's because before, all the other orks in the burna boyz squad without a burna were.... green with envy......

sorry, had to

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/30/2007 2:29 PM

It's just like the Chaos dex, and we all know how that one turned out.

I dunno Voodoo, that sounds pretty negative to me. The Chaos Codex is a steaming pile of Flesh Hound dung, and if the Ork Codex is 'just like' the Chaos one, then I have a bad feeling about it.

Still, the Lootaz and Tankbusta models are ace, and I love the new Trukk.

BYE

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 10/30/2007 3:50 PM

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/30/2007 2:29 PM

It's just like the Chaos dex, and we all know how that one turned out.

I dunno Voodoo, that sounds pretty negative to me. The Chaos Codex is a steaming pile of Flesh Hound dung, and if the Ork Codex is 'just like' the Chaos one, then I have a bad feeling about it.

Still, the Lootaz and Tankbusta models are ace, and I love the new Trukk.

BYE

Oh, I meant "just like the Chaos one" in how the PDF is.  Ie. this was something sent to the printers.

Lootas are just plain "necessary", if it weren't for their stark "need" then they probably aren't worth it, though out of the non-nob Elites, they're the best out of the three (Tankbustas, Burnas, and Lootas).  Mainly because they can sit 48" away in cover and fire like crazy. Everyone else is slowed, or has to do the walk of shame and has no protection or transport - just like the rumors said.

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 10/30/2007 3:50 PM

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/30/2007 2:29 PM

It's just like the Chaos dex, and we all know how that one turned out.

I dunno Voodoo, that sounds pretty negative to me. The Chaos Codex is a steaming pile of Flesh Hound dung, and if the Ork Codex is 'just like' the Chaos one, then I have a bad feeling about it.

I love the new Chaos and yes I played a cult army in the old one.  Hell I won the 'Ard Boyz semi's with the new dex, it can't be all that bad at all.

 

I don;t care how much you 'hate' the new Ork codex for fluff reasons or whatever, if it's as competitive as the new Chaos it's made out of pure win.  I really really want to see Orks stomping people in tournies.

I'm confused by some of the points costs. Why is a nob with powerclaw, twinlinked shooter and stikbombz almost 2 boys more expensive than a mega armoured nob, even though he has barely any save? Is slow and purposeful that much of a drawback?

(yeah, i'd probably never take a nob equipped like that, i'm just using it for comparison. I'm thinking nob wargear is very overcosted, especially seeing as meganobs look on the pricey side in the first place)

I've seen the new dex, and there are a couple of jacked up things that I've noticed about it....

1st, stormboyz are NOT fleet as was rumoured.  They may be fleet with zagstruck, I dont know, I wasnt able to see what he gives the mob but I thought it was only the deepstrike ability.  If he doesnt grant the fleet ability, then stormboyz are indeed NOT fleet as was rumoured.

 

....and get this, you CANNOT get powerclaw Nobs in Shoota units according to raw!  Here is the exact wording.

In the ork boyz selection under troops, boyz are equipped with slugga and choppa, check.

Under options, it says, that the ENTIRE MOB may replace their choppas and sluggas with shootaz.

...then under the character options, you may upgrade one boy to a Nob, fine.

...it then says that the Nob may replace his CHOPPA with one of the following, big choppa or power klaw.

Regardless of when you upgrade the Nob with a powerklaw (before or after the mob gets their shootas)  all of the requirements cannot be satisfied.

If you get shootas before you upgrade a Nob, he has only a shoota after you purchase a Nob, he has no choppa to trade in for a Power Klaw.  If you Upgrade the Nob with a powerklaw before you trade in the mob's choppas and sluggas for shootas, then you cant replace the ENTIRE MOB'S choppas and sluggas with shootas since the Nob doenst even have a Choppa anymore.

Nice proofreading GW.

Posted By Deadshane1 on 10/30/2007 5:18 PM

I've seen the new dex, and there are a couple of jacked up things that I've noticed about it....

1st, stormboyz are NOT fleet as was rumoured.  They may be fleet with zagstruck, I dont know, I wasnt able to see what he gives the mob but I thought it was only the deepstrike ability.  If he doesnt grant the fleet ability, then stormboyz are indeed NOT fleet as was rumoured.

 

....and get this, you CANNOT get powerclaw Nobs in Shoota units according to raw!  Here is the exact wording.

In the ork boyz selection under troops, boyz are equipped with slugga and choppa, check.

Under options, it says, that the ENTIRE MOB may replace their choppas and sluggas with shootaz.

...then under the character options, you may upgrade one boy to a Nob, fine.

...it then says that the Nob may replace his CHOPPA with one of the following, big choppa or power klaw.

Regardless of when you upgrade the Nob with a powerklaw (before or after the mob gets their shootas)  all of the requirements cannot be satisfied.

If you get shootas before you upgrade a Nob, he has only a shoota after you purchase a Nob, he has no choppa to trade in for a Power Klaw.  If you Upgrade the Nob with a powerklaw before you trade in the mob's choppas and sluggas for shootas, then you cant replace the ENTIRE MOB'S choppas and sluggas with shootas since the Nob doenst even have a Choppa anymore.

Nice proofreading GW.

Well you see, the Nob trades in his Choppa for a Klaw, then the mob of boyz trade in their choppas and sluggas for shootaz. I fail to see the problem.

Posted By TragicNut on 10/30/2007 5:22 PM

Well you see, the Nob trades in his Choppa for a Klaw, then the mob of boyz trade in their choppas and sluggas for shootaz. I fail to see the problem.

...then you need to look closer.  When they say THE ENTIRE MOB does that not include the Nob?  He IS part of the Mob after all, it doenst specify boyz, it just says the entire mob.  Therin lies the problem.  The nob doesnt have a choppa anymore, therefore the ENTIRE MOB cant trade in their sluggaz and CHOPPAS for shootas.

clear enough?

The Stormboys don't fleet. their rokkitpacks allow them to move as jump infantry, but every time you move the unit you roll a d6. if you roll a 1 you take a csualty. the mob is them moved the 12" plus whatever you rolled. I presume this then allows you to shoot (or waaaargh) in the shooting phase

If someone tried to pull the crap about Nobz in shoota mobz not being able to buy upgraded weapons I think I'd hit them with the rulebook.

This is why people don't do RAW in many situations where it becomes absurd.

If this leaked codex is so rife that every second person has seen it, then why isn't it uploaded on bittorrent somewhere?
Ang0r! I want to see it goddammit

Posted By tRiXxX on 10/30/2007 6:44 PM
If this leaked codex is so rife that every second person has seen it, then why isn't it uploaded on bittorrent somewhere?
Ang0r! I want to see it goddammit

Your search-foo is weak.

Hrm... Just found it... after a cursory read, my thoughts:

Grabba Arms... all those eldar players are gonna cry... now, can you take it on anything other than the battlewagon & the looted wagon?

I also like that, since they decided to stick with the new format, they included the page reference for each unit in the army list. Now at least I know which page to flip to when I need to look up special rules.

Time to go poring through it now

Personally, I think it's fantastic. Can't wait to see it in action. It's going to be my first game when I get back from Baltimore.

Can't take the Klaw on anything fast, so I don't see it being overly useful. Way too easy to neutralize.

Not that it matters a ton, Lootas are a Falcons worst nightmare. As is the army of Rokkit or Kustom Mega Blasta toating stuff.

The problem is that the 'Wagon is generally not all that great. It's not terrible as a transport for 20 Boyz, but add the kill cannon and give it basic upgrades and you're looking at something between 165 - 185 points! No tracked vehicle is worth that, especially not a 24" gimped version of a Russ!

and I don't really see a problem of the Ork Nob not getting a klaw in shoota mobz. They are trading in their CC goodness for shooty. It would make a very big difference in which I would take if I can't have a power klaw with shooty boyz. It does make some sense.

Hey Voodoo,

I had a question for ya. Half jokingly, do you suspect that GW was monitoring things over here after the initial rumors leaked? Because I noticed some changes from the rumors to the actual codex that leads me to think possibly so.

1. Ghazgull?s Waagh is in place of your normal one. I remember quite a few people talking about a Ghazgull Horde?s fleeting twice. Not to be.
2. Transport battlewagons can?t take killcannons. This change from the rumors totally kills all those 8 battlewagon pie plate lists that got bandied about.
3. Boss Zagstruck is not nearly as cool as we thought. Loses his powerclaw after the first round, no fleet after the deep strike (Storm Boyz don?t Waagh!), so a deepstrike assault became a lot less potent and a lot more risky.
4. The strong things that survived the rumor purge (Boyz, Truks, killa kans) were all things people paid passing mention to, but didn?t seem to fawn over.

Maybe I?m just paranoid, but these specific changes from the rumors to the codex make me think someone was lurking over here and made edits accordingly. The truly ironic thing is that if this is the case, the game designer would have been better served by leaving things as is. A ?Phill Kelly Nugget? (as you so entertainingly coined) sells a lot of models and makes an army popular. I wonder how many people will give up their plans for ork armies once the true codex hits.

Not sure if they made any changes because of what transpired here, but it's already a known fact that GW does have at least some people that read (and once or twice post) on this forum.

So it is a possibility.

Nothing really changed at all.

Ghazgulls Waagh doesn't take up a Waaagh for the game (Ie. you can still call a normal one, just not a second one that turn). This is exactly how it was in Orkdom's summary.

Zaagstruk is not as good as we thought. I don't think that this was something that was "changed", but rather it was a mistake in the summary. Ditto on the whole "fleet" thing. They move an extra D6", but it's not "fleet" nor does it happen in the shooting phase. Again, a mistake in the summary of something that orkdom did not have on hand.

And I feel it's worth mentioning that he's still "decent", but his cost and ability is balanced to where he's not "broken" like many (especially myself) were thinking he was going to be based on the rumors that had a nice glaring omission about the PK going away.

Transport Wagons not taking Killkannons aren't all that big of a deal for me. Angron was the only person I saw who was interested by the idea and I didn't think that it made a competitive enough list anyway (being able to just kill Space Marine armies does not a top tier list make anymore). Besides, well kitted Wagons w/ Kill Kannonz are 185-190 Points. They're certainly not efficient like many were hoping, but again this wasn't something specified in the summary.

The big thing that people totally went nuts over was in fact the Shoota Boyz and the Trukks.

The Kanz are a nice surprise. The Kustom Mega Blasta on them is a no-brainer. BS3 AP2 shots at S8? For 5 more points than the Rokkit? Sign me up.

Lootas were a big deal, and still are. Everything else many of us who were really paying attention already alluded to (we knew the costs for Lootas, Tankbustas, Burnas, and their lack of transports). Take a look at my theory list in the "ork mob sizes" thread in tactics and the final list in the army section I've posted. It was almost 100% spot on, with the biggest change being zaagstruk not coming in.

The "Phil Kelly Nugget" is still in the dex, albeit he's balanced a lot of it pretty well. The dex has more choices that are "good" but not broken that make for fun armies, which is good. It's like playing Eldar without the Holofields+Spirit Stones. Great fun list, but not top tier.

But lets not forget, there ARE little nuggets of broken from Phil laying around the dex (Storm Boyz, Shootas w/ PK Nobz, Lootas). I see both KoS and the shooty horde being competitive armies, with the edge going to the horde because of skimmer lists (especially Tau).

The army is going to put a lot of lists right out of contention now, especially at 1500 Points or so. I see the Boyz becoming a very real spoiler army. Mech Eldar at 1500 points has nearly nothing out of the Falcons, and what they have in the Falcons will probably not make their points back against the kind of list I've posted. It's going to hurt them, a lot, or at least force a lot of change.

Zillas at 1500 will suffer from the fact that they can be tied up in CC pretty reliably and that Ork retaliatory shooting will be painful for them.

But this is getting away from your point. No, I don't think that the Developers saw reactions to the leaked rules and changed things. I'm 99% sure that this is the exact codex Orkdom saw rules wise. They really don't have a lot of leeway in terms of printing these things, so once it starts to get "out in the wild" I think things are fairly set in stone. I don't see anything in here that seriously discredits the summary or really alludes to the fact that rules were changed based on forum reaction to the rumors. The deltas are much more easily explained as oversights rather than subtle changes.

Just want to mention to everyone that you are discussing leaked copyrighted information, so please only speak in generalities and please do not post any actual statistics or points-values.

Most importantly any discussion on where to actually find the rules will result in a quick lock of the thread and temporary suspension of posting priveleges for whoever posts a link.


FYI, everything in this thread up to this point is fine, just a warning to anyone else jumping into the conversation.

My conspiracy theory has its first debunker . . . by definition that makes it true, right?

Posted By Deadshane1 on 10/30/2007 5:18 PM

I've seen the new dex, and there are a couple of jacked up things that I've noticed about it....

1st, stormboyz are NOT fleet as was rumoured.  They may be fleet with zagstruck, I dont know, I wasnt able to see what he gives the mob but I thought it was only the deepstrike ability.  If he doesnt grant the fleet ability, then stormboyz are indeed NOT fleet as was rumoured.

You're right, they got something better than fleet (cause they can still use it and shoot on the same turn they charge!).

 

 

Phryxis:

 

Your post has been deleted because you ignored my warnings and posted points values. If you do it again, your account will be temporarily suspended.

 

--yakface