Ork Codex Leaked

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Posted By Toreador on 10/31/2007 9:07 AM
I sadly still don't think Kommandos are worth it, even though I will still field them.

There are too many selections per org that really compete with each other. I am having a hard time coming up with any kind of list.

It really seems to follow the basic pattern most other armies have taken. Klaws are expensive, along with most heavy weapons (like rokkits) went up in points.

Kommandos are good at what they were fore before - Minimum sized units used to infiltrate with Rokkits and get shots off at vehicles, specifically skimmers on turn 1 that haven't moved yet.

5 Boyz and 2 Rokkits works out cheap as chips. Problem is they compete against Lootas, which are a better choice.albeit for a different roll.

Plus you can take burnas in the unit. If you want to be fluffy and use big mobz of them then sit them behind some cover for area denial, stay put on turn 1 and use the Waaagh move to get them into assault on turn 2.

**Angron**

Posted By Phryxis on 10/31/2007 8:12 AM

no, in your example, the REST of the mob is doing so.

Ok, and everyone has to exchange their normal clothing for a prison jumpsuit before they can get into prison. But if you show up naked, they're not going to let you go.

I think everyone sees your point, but to argue that it's the RAW is not correct. The wording here is a bit ambiguous. I don't think anybody is going to notice.

And the pages this version appears to be missing are

And a weapon summary? Or did I just miss it?

I understand Slugga Boyz and Grots are bad enough to be useless in competitive lists?

If by "useless" you mean "mandatory" then yes. They're the only two Troops choices, so you need at least two. Unless you mean Slugga Boyz as opposed to Shoota Boyz.

Honestly, I think two Trukks full of Slugga Boyz seems like a real solid choice. The Trukk rules are very, very favorable now, what with the chance to turn a wreck into an even faster and more successful assault. Never in my life has the term "Ramshackle" seemed so positive.

Shootas are now like Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults

No question they improved Shootas, but I don't get this undercurrent of Shoota Worship I think I'm hearing. Brian Nelson may have made the Shoota, but the Shoota isn't Brian Nelson, you don't worship it.

Seriously tho, why give up CC attacks? It's where the Orks are doing their best work. I'd rather have another Furious Charge attack at Orky WS than another shooting attack at Orky BS. It's not the end of the world, the Shoota Boyz will still be solid in CC, especially now that the choppa is not adding any major benefit, but I think I'd rather my Orks could get the big bulk of CC attacks they need to compensate for their horrid I score.

HEEYYYYYY!!! Am I correct that they took away my Looted Russ? I don't see it in the list right now.

It's because you're not "giving up" anything.... you're exchanging. Normally when a slugga boy charges into combat, he first fires his slugga for one STR 4 attack that hits on 5's, and then makes 4 STR 4 attacks that hit on 4's. With the shoota, he fires first, making two STR 4 attacks that hit on 5's, and then makes 3 STR 4 attacks which his on 4's...... he's exchanging -1 to hit on one attack for a longer range weapon that pumps out more shots.

**Toreador**

So those 128 shots are suddenly not viable anymore without the PK nob? Interesting.

After looking through most of the entries, I am really coming to the conclusion that things are bought in order from the list, and it is very specific about what can and can't be exchanged because of this order. I am not sure then if the boyz nob PK issue is an oversight or meant to be. I can really see it either way.

The only thing I don't like so much is that you can't upgrade the weapons with kustom jobs on any of the nobz and hq choices anymore. It's a minor quible though, otherwise I think the codex is superb. The fluff and look of the in progress pdf is just amazing. The PK issue seems to be the only rule that doesn't seem too clear, which is good for any book they put out.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Posted By Toreador on 10/31/2007 9:26 AM
So those 128 shots are suddenly not viable anymore without the PK nob? Interesting.

After looking through most of the entries, I am really coming to the conclusion that things are bought in order from the list, and it is very specific about what can and can't be exchanged because of this order. I am not sure then if the boyz nob PK issue is an oversight or meant to be. I can really see it either way.

The only thing I don't like so much is that you can't upgrade the weapons with kustom jobs on any of the nobz and hq choices anymore. It's a minor quible though, otherwise I think the codex is superb. The fluff and look of the in progress pdf is just amazing. The PK issue seems to be the only rule that doesn't seem too clear, which is good for any book they put out.

Not for tournament lists I don't think they are. The PK Nob is what makes the unit a serious threat in every phase of the game, for just about any unit.

Shoota Boyz are problems for Zilla Nids because there's a ton of them, and once the big bugs get close enough to fire, they risk getting charged by a Waaging Shoota Boy mob supporting whatever they shoot at. Take out the PK Nob and Shootas stop being that kind of threat.

**yakface**

Posted By Toreador on 10/31/2007 9:26 AM
So those 128 shots are suddenly not viable anymore without the PK nob? Interesting.

After looking through most of the entries, I am really coming to the conclusion that things are bought in order from the list, and it is very specific about what can and can't be exchanged because of this order. I am not sure then if the boyz nob PK issue is an oversight or meant to be. I can really see it either way.

The only thing I don't like so much is that you can't upgrade the weapons with kustom jobs on any of the nobz and hq choices anymore. It's a minor quible though, otherwise I think the codex is superb. The fluff and look of the in progress pdf is just amazing. The PK issue seems to be the only rule that doesn't seem too clear, which is good for any book they put out.

There is no indication whatsoever that upgrades are done in any sort of order. Any such restriction you imagine is completely self-imposed.

**TragicNut**

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/31/2007 9:18 AM

Posted By Polonius on 10/31/2007 9:02 AM
I agree that a nob can be upgraded before the mob swaps for shootas. I think that there is history, intent, and a desire to not screw over hobbyists to justify an incredibly precise reading of the rule, especially since a casual reading of the rules would result in the same outcome. First off, why no heavy weapon, or even combi weapon upgrade for shooy nobs? The models are out there, unless GW want's all non-HtH nobs to be re-designated Flash Gitz.

What worries me isn't some guy claiming that shoota nobs can't have claws. Even the tournaments I go to (I live in the Cleveland Ohio area) tend to be pretty low key, with no rules fascists (I hate using the word Nazi to describe anybody that isn't a National Socialist).

What does worry me is GW in a year of so finally dropping an FAQ that says, "You must swap weapons before all other upgrades." Is it just me, or is that enough of a fear to justify holding off on building an Ork army?
The whole Tyranid Warrior style FAQ coming out is something that scares me when I think about this.

It makes me want to build a KoS styled army without using "the horde" approach. You can always use PK Nobz, what I don't want to end up with is 64 Shoota Boyz models who will suddenly become not worth fielding without their PK Nob.

I think we should be safe though.

Tyranid Warrior style FAQ? I think I missed something, the current 'nid FAQ has nothing specifically about warriors in it.

**Zoned**

Some of the new short stories are pretty hilarious in the new book as well. Lots of new art.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Posted By TragicNut on 10/31/2007 9:57 AM

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/31/2007 9:18 AM

Posted By Polonius on 10/31/2007 9:02 AM
I agree that a nob can be upgraded before the mob swaps for shootas. I think that there is history, intent, and a desire to not screw over hobbyists to justify an incredibly precise reading of the rule, especially since a casual reading of the rules would result in the same outcome. First off, why no heavy weapon, or even combi weapon upgrade for shooy nobs? The models are out there, unless GW want's all non-HtH nobs to be re-designated Flash Gitz.

What worries me isn't some guy claiming that shoota nobs can't have claws. Even the tournaments I go to (I live in the Cleveland Ohio area) tend to be pretty low key, with no rules fascists (I hate using the word Nazi to describe anybody that isn't a National Socialist).

What does worry me is GW in a year of so finally dropping an FAQ that says, "You must swap weapons before all other upgrades." Is it just me, or is that enough of a fear to justify holding off on building an Ork army?
The whole Tyranid Warrior style FAQ coming out is something that scares me when I think about this.

It makes me want to build a KoS styled army without using "the horde" approach. You can always use PK Nobz, what I don't want to end up with is 64 Shoota Boyz models who will suddenly become not worth fielding without their PK Nob.

I think we should be safe though.

Tyranid Warrior style FAQ? I think I missed something, the current 'nid FAQ has nothing specifically about warriors in it.

When it was first released it stated that Tyranid Warriors could be instant killed by weapons that were greater than double their toughness. So they wouldn't be instakilled by a Missile Launcher, but would by a Lascannon or Railgun. All because of a stupid RAW interpretation of the Nid Codex and the attitude that players should use RAW, even in such silly situations where the interpretation becomes rediculous.

It caused a massive negative reaction in the player base from both Tyranid Players and non Nid players alike, and GW revised the FAQ to what we have now.

**dienekes96**

I'd love to see the art. I can wait on the rules...

**Pariah Press**

Posted By Agamemnon2 on 10/31/2007 2:07 AM

Posted By Pariah Press on 10/31/2007 1:26 AM
Heh. Look at the paragraph on Golgotha on page 19. The Squats have not been forgotten!
The book mentions the S-word? That'd certainly be unusual.

No, it doesn't mention the S-word. It just refers to the stunties obliquely. The "abhumans" with their "war colossi."

**Polonius**

When it was first released it stated that Tyranid Warriors could be instant killed by weapons that were greater than double their toughness. So they wouldn't be instakilled by a Missile Launcher, but would by a Lascannon or Railgun. All because of a stupid RAW interpretation of the Nid Codex and the attitude that players should use RAW, even in such silly situations where the interpretation becomes rediculous.

It caused a massive negative reaction in the player base from both Tyranid Players and non Nid players alike, and GW revised the FAQ to what we have now.

So there is a certain amount of precedent for FAQ's eventually being revised to reflect the will of the people. Since GW isn't stupid, and wants to sell lots of boys, I'm guessing they'll allow nobs to take the claw.

And I totally agree with Yak: there simply is nothing that prohibits the work around of buying a claw, then swapping. Since there is zero reason to think that the designers did not want PK Nobs in shootas, and since GW, bless it's heart, simply does not have a great history of being that precise in it's language, I see no reason to not allow it.

**two heads talking**

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 10/30/2007 9:58 PM

I don't 'spose you'd have a problem with another Cover-2-Cover review right Yak? Afterall, I did that long before the Chaos Codex was out...

BYE

I would be interested in seeing this. even if it was just a pm of sorts.

**Boss Salvage**

Question on the Waaagh "feat" - When you use it once per game, does every ork unit have to fleet instead of shooting? I guess the Waaagh can be selective and just launch forward burnas / sluggas / killy orks and let lootas chill and maybe press their triggers down harder ......

- Salvage

**Voodoo Boyz**

They simply gain the fleet of foot USR. They do not "have to" fleet and can still shoot.

Proper Waaagh usage will determine the game for Orks or not many times, depending on the build you're using. Knowing when to trigger it is something that will differentiate good Warbosses from poor ones, and it will make the amry fun to use.

**Da Boss**

Excited!This has cheered me up after a horrible week.

**gorgon**

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 10/31/2007 7:42 AM
So cross another set of fingers that Kelly gets to write LatD, in addition to it being written at all

Hmm. If we take up a collection among LatD players, do you think we could bribe Phil Kelly into becoming the studio champion for LatD?

Seriously though, Orks sound great. I may end up using the Ork rules for my Genestealer Cult.

**Orock**

The first time I have someone argue to an official GW ref at a grand tourney that my list is illegal because he interprets it that nobs in shoota mobs cant have klaws, and that ref agrees, will be the last time I ever give a damn about GW. If they made that ruling, the would lose alot of ork fans, and were not that numerous to begin with. Like the guy who argued that shrike could be used in his blood raven space marine army-whom he was playing as vanilla marines. They were STILL blood ravens, but using basic marine rules. They let it slide. Lets all play bend the rules to our advantage!

**Asmodai**

Posted By Orock on 10/31/2007 11:53 AM
The first time I have someone argue to an official GW ref at a grand tourney that my list is illegal because he interprets it that nobs in shoota mobs cant have klaws, and that ref agrees, will be the last time I ever give a damn about GW. If they made that ruling, the would lose alot of ork fans, and were not that numerous to begin with. Like the guy who argued that shrike could be used in his blood raven space marine army-whom he was playing as vanilla marines. They were STILL blood ravens, but using basic marine rules. They let it slide. Lets all play bend the rules to our advantage!

Huh?

The Marine Codex is clear that you can use the generic list to represent Imperial Fists, Blood Ravens, Crimson Fists, etc. That guy in your example was playing both within the letter and the spirit of the rules.

**Toreador**

Yep, any order is just imagined by me, but reading entries in the HQ list, it looks to me to be more ordered in that way. But either way there is nothing stated how anything is taken from the list, order or not, so anything can be assumed. Sometimes we have no idea, or remote clue what there intent on anything is until they clarify, and even then they can be vague. I can easily see both sides to the argument. There is reason for and for against.

In the same vein it looks like nobz can take big shootas and rokkits in most cases. You can upgrade a boy to a weapon and then upgrade that boy to a nob. I don't see anything stopping it, but it doesn't give you the extra weapon like it used to.

and the PK in or not in a mob is not exactly a game breaking problem. It's a minor quibble.

**dumbuket**

the pk in a shoota mob is a pretty big deal, actually. of course, deadshane's "interpretation" is pretty strained, and I think it takes a pretty twisted interpretation to reach his conclusion, so I'm not really worried. it reads "the entire mob may replace their sluggas and choppas with shootas". so what do you do? you buy the slugga mob, you buy the nob, you replace his choppa with a powerklaw, and then you replace the sluggas and choppas with shootas. the nob doesn't have a slugga and choppa, so he doesn't replace it with a shoota.

by deadshane's logic, nobs in shoota mobs *must* have *only* a a shoota, but by his logic, a mob with *any* heavy weapons upgrades invalidates the slugga/shoota exchange. after all, if you have a rokkit and you're in a slugga mob, then when you do the exchange, he doesn't have a slugga and choppa either and therefore can't take a shoota. would that, by RAW, make any sense?

also, are the dakkaguns on bikes twinlinked or not? they're S5 ap5 assault 3 according to the book, and the first half calls them "noisy twin-linked dakkaguns", but no mention of them being twin-linked is made thereafter. the models show twin-linked guns, the last rules had them as twin-linked, but the unit entry doesn't say that they are

**Da Boss**

Man o man that was great. Great fluff, great art, great sense of humour. Hands down the best GW product in recent years. Phil, I love you man.

**Toreador**

In an obtuse way I can sort of see his point, but just barely. It does not state that they all "have" to have choppa and slugga for it to work though. I can't assume that far

Yeah, I noticed that too, not sure what to make of it. do the noisy twin-linked guns have that profile and are twin linked, or have that profile because they are twin linked. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

**Da Boss**

What I love most is the sense of humour throughout. It was exactly what I would have hoped for.
As for the list, it looks at least on par with Chaos from a quick read (though I'll admit I'm no top tier player).

**Toreador**

Yeah, my coworkers have been asking me all morning what is wrong as I keep laughing out loud. The stories have had me close to a falling out of my chair.

**Pariah Press**

Yeah, it looks like they saved nearly everything that was good from the old 1st edition fluff, and threw in the spore reproduction method from Gorkamorka, and background from the last twenty years of 40K. I noticed this sort of thing in the Tyranid Codex, too. It's kind of nice that GW has stopped trying to reinvent themselves every edition.

**Deadshane1**

Posted By Orock on 10/31/2007 11:53 AM
The first time I have someone argue to an official GW ref at a grand tourney that my list is illegal because he interprets it that nobs in shoota mobs cant have klaws, and that ref agrees, will be the last time I ever give a damn about GW. If they made that ruling, the would lose alot of ork fans, and were not that numerous to begin with. Like the guy who argued that shrike could be used in his blood raven space marine army-whom he was playing as vanilla marines. They were STILL blood ravens, but using basic marine rules. They let it slide. Lets all play bend the rules to our advantage!

I'm the one that brought that up about the Nobs, but I totally agree with you. To me the wording just looks like a total rules lawyer can interpret it that way.

The example put forth about the heavy weapons doenst really apply, since the entry states that you can trade in your slugga OR shoota for said heavy weapons.

In order to see my point, you have to actually have the entry in front of you and read it with a totally closed mind. Someone who says Nobs cannot have powerklaws may have a valid arguement however.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ork boyz entry, all boyz equipped with slugga and choppa

exact wording: "The ENTIRE MOB may replace their sluggas and choppas with shootas"

Character entry: "One boy may be upgraded to a Nob"

His options: "He may replace his CHOPPA (not choppa or shoota as the heavy weapons states) with one of the following: 'Uge Choppa....X pts, Power Klaw....X pts."

Conclusion, if you upgrade the boyz with shootas first, the Nob has no Choppa to trade for a PowerKlaw, If you upgrade the Nob first, you cannot give the ENTIRE mob shootas because the nob no longer has the choppa/slugga combo to trade, and he IS part of the mob.

In my opinion, it seems almost the same to me as people claiming that bolt pistols cannot fire and then charge in the same turn if the model has a 'slung' boltgun. It's that sort of rules interpretation, but it IS there. Do I agree with it? No. Will I enforce it? No. Will others? I wouldnt be surprised....people out there DO enforce the bolt pistol rule after all.

**Polonius**

Except it's not the same. For BPs, the rules are pretty clear: no model that carries a rapid fire weapon my fire and then assault. It's dumb, but the RAW is clear that it can't be done.

Here, the rules aren't clear. You can upgrade a nob, give him a claw, and then replace slugga/choppas with shootas. What is interesting is what happens to the Nobs slugga: does it swap to a shoota, leaving the claw? Does he keep the slugga because you may only swap a "slugga and choppa" for a shoota?

Finally, even the languages "the entire mob may replace their..." is a little ambigous. Does it mean "you may have every model replace" or does it mean "any model in the mob may replace"?

I never understood the whole oil/water situation with shootas and sluggas in the first place. Trukk boys in the old dex could take both freely, and that option seems to have disappeared, unless the horrendously vague language really does mean you can mix and match. Personally, I think it'd be really sweet to have ~10 slugga boys at the front with another 10 shoota boys pouring fire behind them.

**Polonius**

Ok, I've read it. I like it a lot. I think it's funny, it's clever, and shoota nobs aside, it seems very cleanly written.

While i'm not horribly impressed with battlewagons as gunboats, are they worth considering as pure transports? Assume red paint, frag assault and extra armor... I mean stikk bomb chukkas and armor plates, gort riggers and a single big shoota as insurance against Weapon Destroyed. You're looking at a tank that's under 130pts, can claim a table quarter (if not bought as an upgrade) and can hold a 20 man mob of boys... all of whom can shoot out of it! I'm guessing it's not going to be reliable enough to replace numbers of trukks, but taking three of them, with two mobs of boys on the flanks and Nobs in the middle can really crash some lines, as least in casual play.

**GrimTeef**

'Do the burny dance.' I just fell over laughing.

While I hate to bring up this, someone with a better grasp of the rules may shine some light on this issue:

By the rules, it looks like Big Meks can have a Kustom Force Field and a Burna, or a Shokk Attack Gun and a Burna, or Mega Armor and a Burna.

Does the Burna or the KFF not count as 2-handed weapons anymore? It does not seem so, but maybe there's a rule I'm forgetting in the Big Black Book.

Also, Warbikers seem to get 2 close combat weapons, so it appears they can use them both while on a bike...

**Da Boss**

I think the Kustom Force Field is worn on the Meks back.
Not so sure about the Shokk attack gun.