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Fluffwise they're very lowtech, so you'd probably want to go with a footslogging horde, heavy with boyz. It all depends on how far you want to take things. For example, you could have Stormyboyz with Pterodactyls tied to their backs, use Boarboyz for bikes, and use Squiggoth models for Trukks.

So are there any rumors as to a release date yet?

January. Has been for some time now.

Posted By sugarwookie on 11/05/2007 8:34 PM
So are the basic boys unit getting a resculpt? They looked the same to me, with the exception of a new weapon or two? That'd be cool to have them pretty much compatible with what I already own. Are there any pix of the new shokk attack gun around anywhere? I'd love to see it........

Some heads are getting extra scars, a few more bits, a rokkit, big shoota, and plastic power klaw are also on as well.  The biggest change I saw was guns being attached to the arm rather than seperate where you cut the handles, then hope you can line up the arms correctly.  Doing this is very frustrating without the arms attached.  But the downside is you have less full bits to use on other projects.  I usually glue shootas to the sides of my trukks, so it looks like if the trukk explodes the drivers can get out, grab a shoota and join da boyz.

May the Bandwagon jumping begin. Then again it happens nearly every time a new codex comes out.

yakface wrote:January. Has been for some time now.

Just in time to miss Christmas. This needs explaining.

There will be a spearhead box with all the new stuff and Dex for the Christmatime, so no worry.

Orlanth wrote:

yakface wrote:January. Has been for some time now.

Just in time to miss Christmas. This needs explaining.

with the high elves being the "christmas" army this year, there really doesn't need much more explaining now does there?

and as pointed out just above me, you will be able to get all the new models before christmas in a spearhead box. nuf said.

I've really enjoyed playtesting the new rules. Although they're a little better with shooting now I'm pleasantly surprised at how they're still just as good in HTH. I don't see much point in taking Slugga Boys now, maybe someone can tell me why we should? I've played the new list twice and I'm 2-0 so far. I do have a question that has arose and maybe some of you can help?

The Weird Boy powers that state that "The unit takes hit at given strength and at given AP" does this mean the entire unit takes the hit, or is it only one model in the unit? I'm a little confused.



Thanx!

For what it is worth, I did some study in statutory interpretation not too long ago (I'm a Law Student) and I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the interpretation of the rules...

Ok, well with regards to the PK in shoota boys units, I do believe that the rule itself is truly ambiguous.

I do not believe that there is any firmly established order to follow in selecting upgrades.

If purchasing the Nob first, the operative sentence is:

The entire mob may exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas.

Now, despite what some have suggested, it is clear that the use of the word MAY does not allow the unit to be composed piecemeal of sluggas and shootas.

The subject of the sentence is "the entire mob". MAY describes an action which can be taken by "the entire squad". If they had used the word "must" rather than "may" then all boys must be shootas. What a silly result that would be.

I see where the people who are arguing textually that shootas cannot have pk nobs are coming from. They believe that if one of the boys doesn't have a slugga and choppa that then "The Entire Mob" cannot perform the ascribed action, and so that action cannot take place. This, I believe, is reading words into the sentence which are not there.

Here is how I would write out the action described in the critical phrase: "exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas."

"If a boy has a slugga and a choppa, then he exchanges it for a shoota." This is not adding words, but merely spelling out the literal meaning of the words as written. I think it is an error to read into this phrase a conditional statement that if any boy does not have both a slugga and a choppa to exchange, than none of them can exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas.

However, I do find myself forced to side with those who agree that shoota mobs can't have nobs with power klaws. This is based on the clear intent of the omission of the terms "or shoota" from the rule for Nob PK's. If all of the other upgrades say that either a slugga or a shoota can be upgraded in such a way, but the nob says that only a choppa may be substituted for a PK, then I can only assume that this was intended. It cannot be said to be an oversight because it was not overlooked anywhere else in the entry.

I am quite dismayed with this result. I wholeheartedly hope that this was an oversight and has been corrected for the release version as I would dearly like to have a pk nob in a shoota squad:(

My ultimate conclusion is that the RAW do not clearly disalow a PK nob in a shoota squad, but the clear intent underlying the rules does prohibit this. Unfortunately, I feel that if the codex is released, it should be addressed one way or another very quickly. (I almost said it WILL be addressed very quickly ::giggle::. It will be addressed sometime within a year or two of the codex. We can consider ourselves lucky if the clarification does not cause at least two new irreconcilable rule questions.)



ALSO, Is it true that all ork CCW are listed as choppa? Doesn't the big rule book have a rule for choppas? I heard theres a specific entry explaining that choppas are simply CCW. ooh well, wouldn't it be funny trying to argue the rulebook's interpertation of the choppa weapon?

Robg54 wrote:For what it is worth, I did some study in statutory interpretation not too long ago (I'm a Law Student) and I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the interpretation of the rules...

Ok, well with regards to the PK in shoota boys units, I do believe that the rule itself is truly ambiguous.

I do not believe that there is any firmly established order to follow in selecting upgrades.

If purchasing the Nob first, the operative sentence is:

The entire mob may exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas.

Now, despite what some have suggested, it is clear that the use of the word MAY does not allow the unit to be composed piecemeal of sluggas and shootas.

The subject of the sentence is "the entire mob". MAY describes an action which can be taken by "the entire squad". If they had used the word "must" rather than "may" then all boys must be shootas. What a silly result that would be.

I see where the people who are arguing textually that shootas cannot have pk nobs are coming from. They believe that if one of the boys doesn't have a slugga and choppa that then "The Entire Mob" cannot perform the ascribed action, and so that action cannot take place. This, I believe, is reading words into the sentence which are not there.

Here is how I would write out the action described in the critical phrase: "exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas."

"If a boy has a slugga and a choppa, then he exchanges it for a shoota." This is not adding words, but merely spelling out the literal meaning of the words as written. I think it is an error to read into this phrase a conditional statement that if any boy does not have both a slugga and a choppa to exchange, than none of them can exchange their sluggas and choppas for shootas.

However, I do find myself forced to side with those who agree that shoota mobs can't have nobs with power klaws. This is based on the clear intent of the omission of the terms "or shoota" from the rule for Nob PK's. If all of the other upgrades say that either a slugga or a shoota can be upgraded in such a way, but the nob says that only a choppa may be substituted for a PK, then I can only assume that this was intended. It cannot be said to be an oversight because it was not overlooked anywhere else in the entry.

I am quite dismayed with this result. I wholeheartedly hope that this was an oversight and has been corrected for the release version as I would dearly like to have a pk nob in a shoota squad:(

My ultimate conclusion is that the RAW do not clearly disalow a PK nob in a shoota squad, but the clear intent underlying the rules does prohibit this. Unfortunately, I feel that if the codex is released, it should be addressed one way or another very quickly. (I almost said it WILL be addressed very quickly ::giggle::. It will be addressed sometime within a year or two of the codex. We can consider ourselves lucky if the clarification does not cause at least two new irreconcilable rule questions.)



ALSO, Is it true that all ork CCW are listed as choppa? Doesn't the big rule book have a rule for choppas? I heard theres a specific entry explaining that choppas are simply CCW. ooh well, wouldn't it be funny trying to argue the rulebook's interpertation of the choppa weapon?

Its clearly poorly written, as it is obvious by previous incarnations and the fact the picture on the back of the official codex shows a nob armed with a bolt pistol and a power klaw, leading 10 boyz armed with shootas near a truck. Unless I missed something and the back of the official marine codex has a picture of terminators weilding lascannons or some such. Fortunatley if someone argues you cant use that in a casual game, you can just refuse to play that person if he is being hostile about it. And if a judge made that call at an official tourney, well they wouldnt hear the end of it from me anyway. I just wouldnt let that kind of underhanded cutting go from another player looking to use questionable logic to disqualify me. Enough complaints about it in there first legal GT, and I can just about guarantee a quick faq for one ruling or the other. Either way it will be nice to be rid of the argueing. Im just glad I dont play chaos, the rules arguements they get in about "the lash" give me headaches.

sugarwookie wrote: I've really enjoyed playtesting the new rules. Although they're a little better with shooting now I'm pleasantly surprised at how they're still just as good in HTH. I don't see much point in taking Slugga Boys now, maybe someone can tell me why we should?

I'm assuming guys in trukks are aiming for close combat and are better off getting in 3 attacks every round after they charge rather than the base 2. Footsloggers are probably going to take shootas, kult of speed sluggas & choppas.

And everyone's going to take lootas & stormboyz.

Voodoo Boyz:

Ghazgulls Waagh doesn't take up a Waaagh for the game (Ie. you can still call a normal one, just not a second one that turn).

I don't think so. It's supposed to "replace" the ordinary Waaagh.

Robg54 wrote:I do believe that the rule itself is truly ambiguous.

Welcome to 40k, you will have this epiphany at least once a week.

And trying to apply a legal interpretation is hopeless given GW erratic, and often contradictory rulings. (personally I think its the drugs)

Robg54 wrote:I am dismayed with this result. I wholeheartedly hope that this was an oversight and has been corrected for the release version as I would dearly like to have a pk nob in a shoota squad :(

For what it's worth, I also believe this was intentional and actually hope they do not correct it.

Why?

Because if Shoota Boy mobs are allowed to take Nobs with PK's it will make foot slogging Slugga Boyz utterly useless -As I pointed out in This Thread, Foot slogging units of Boyz have been reduced to their old function: "...being a 'delivery system' for the Nob, useful only to ensure that he didn't just get picked off by enemy fire."*

As a result, there's no point in taking a unit of Slugga Boyz unless you plan on putting them in a Trukk.

Por que?

If most of my boyz are going to be shot up before they even reach close combat only for their Strength 3 attacks to bounce off MEQ armor, why not give them a Strength 4, Assault 2 weapon they can fire on the way? IMO It's well worth the loss of one Str3 attack. Of course this argument relies on one key assumption: That mobs of Shoota Boyz can take a Nob with a Power Klaw. If it turns out that he can't then my Slugga Boyz will get to keep their choppas

*Andy Chambers, -pg 9, U.K. White Dwarf 235

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:As a result, there's no point in taking a unit of Slugga Boyz unless you plan on putting them in a Trukk.

Por que?

If most of my boyz are going to be shot up before they even reach close combat only for their Strength 3 attacks to bounce off MEQ armor, why not give them a Strength 4, Assault 2 weapon they can fire on the way? IMO It's well worth the loss of one Str3 attack. Of course this argument relies on one key assumption: That mobs of Shoota Boyz can take a Nob with a Power Klaw. If it turns out that he can't then my Slugga Boyz will get to keep their choppas

You’re making the assumption that purely melee troops running up the field no quicker than the average human to should be a viable combat unit. I think it was quite a good piece of design to basically leave slugga boys to their trukks.

Whether or not a shootaboy nob can take a powerclaw is another piece of GW vagueness. I think and hope they can, as it would help make shootaboyz an interesting, versatile unit, capable of support fire, objective holding and countercharge. Preventing shootaboy nobz from carrying powerclawz will still leave them a viable unit, but a less interesting, less versatile one.

If the rumored Forced March rule for 5th edition becomes reality, footslogging Sluggas might not be that bad. Forced March plus Waaagh(s) can cover a lot of ground.

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:
As a result, there's no point in taking a unit of Slugga Boyz unless you plan on putting them in a Trukk.

Just like there is no point in taking foot slogging Fire Dragons. However, Fire Dragons are still extremely useful when used correctly (i.e. mounted) and I don't doubt that Slugga Boyz will be too.

One more use for slugga boyz: in a footslogging horde with two warpheads. All those power rerolls give you a possibility for two Waaaghs in one game. And you can't shoot if you're fleet-of-footing it across the board.

Robg54 wrote:For what it is worth, I did some study in statutory interpretation not too long ago (I'm a Law Student) and I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the interpretation of the rules...


ALSO, Is it true that all ork CCW are listed as choppa? Doesn't the big rule book have a rule for choppas? I heard theres a specific entry explaining that choppas are simply CCW. ooh well, wouldn't it be funny trying to argue the rulebook's interpertation of the choppa weapon?

this certainly brings a new light to the "rules lawyer" jab.

I cut out alot of what you typed as it could easily be argue with the same veracity in the opposite direction. that "you" are the one adding words to what is written. it's ambiguous yes, but not so clearly defined as you suggest.

Robg54 wrote:
ALSO, Is it true that all ork CCW are listed as choppa? Doesn't the big rule book have a rule for choppas? I heard theres a specific entry explaining that choppas are simply CCW. ooh well, wouldn't it be funny trying to argue the rulebook's interpertation of the choppa weapon?

Yes, all Ork CCWs are listed as choppas. However, the BGB doesn't have rules for choppas, it has rules for Heavy Close Combat Weapons. Choppas are also defined in the new Codex: Orks as CCWs. Sorry.

Platuan4th wrote:However, the BGB doesn't have rules for choppas, it has rules for Heavy Close Combat Weapons.

Which for all intents and purposes no longer actually exist in an army, right? Berzerkers and orks have both lost their "choppas," leaving ... nobody?

The GeeDubbery Continues

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:However, the BGB doesn't have rules for choppas, it has rules for Heavy Close Combat Weapons.

Which for all intents and purposes no longer actually exist in an army, right? Berzerkers and orks have both lost their "choppas," leaving ... nobody?

Do I dare say that this is another step towards modifiers?