Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Geesh! Why can't people on this board lighten up a bit? If he want's to run with a gag until we gag let the man run with it and keep your negative, non constructive comments to yourself! Donkey cave... lulz

I concede the point, and hereby ignore 6 people out of this thread.

Ah the ignore feature, solace of the wilfully blind.

Anyway, there's a pretty big difference between taking something seriously and being passionate about something. Don't take a game of little toy men seriously, but by all means be passionate about it. It wouldn't be any fun if we didn't care.

BYE

Fine, no ignores then, if it means I'm going to be smacktalked behind my back.

Gentlemen! The internet is serious business, you should know that by now!




I wonder if platoon command squads get a dip or rise in points cost somewhere along the line?

I wondered about that myself. I did the math and my 238-point platoon will cost 170 points with the rumored points costs, even if the junior officer and 4 bullet shields remain at 40pts. I suspect it'll go down to 35 or 30 points.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Fine, no ignores then, if it means I'm going to be smacktalked behind my back.

Come now Aggy! I only do that to John.

BrookM wrote:I wonder if platoon command squads get a dip or rise in points cost somewhere along the line?

Was that a not-quite-so-subtle attempt at getting the thread back on topic Brook? If so well done, I think it worked.

But yes, I think we're going to see two things go by the wayside:

1. Cheap JO's leading armies - This is a double edged sword as I see it. I really liked the idea of a Junior Officer leading a smaller unit, and the idea that you could bring JO's in smaller games. The problem is no one did that, they just brought them because they could get the stats and the abilities of an HSO for 5 points less with a JO & Honorifica. Now, the Honorifica is no doubt going the way of the Chaos Legions and interesting Daemons, so that solves that problem, but I think that, in typical GW overbalancing style, to ensure that the practice of taking Junio Heroic Senior Officers goes away, they'll simply remove them as an option for the CHQ. Honestly I'm happy about the loss of Heroic Juniors. I did it because it was efficient, but I always hated the idea that my unit's commander - Major Lucius Sharpe of the 444th Cadian Mechanised - was just a junior officer with a fancy medal.
2. Throwaway HQ units - Another I can say I'll be glad to see go will be the Suicide Melta/Plasma/Whatever unit. We will probably still be able to load Command Sections up with special weapons (at least, I hope we'll be able to - otherwise what am I going to do with my 20 Cadian Flamers and 16 Grenade Launchers!), but the idea of using them as a throwaway unit will go away thanks to the new orders and Vox rules. And this is a good thing. I'd much rather be rewarded for keeping my officers alive through special rules and abilities than just using them as throwaway units because they're more efficient that way.

And I can see the actual CHQ becoming more expensive than it is now. Bad for smaller games, but given what its role appears to be, and the rules that are rumoured to go with it (orders, Voxes, etc.), I think it's warranted. As long as they address the 2 KP per squad thing that is. Can't forget that little nugget.

BYE

I think the only KP fix we are going to get is 1kp command squads, well, aside from my speculation that Creed will allow guard players to choose mission type. Were only getting a points drop in infantry squads because he's now manditory :(

Out of interest, where are you getting your info on Creed, or is it all just wild speculation/what you think will happen?

BYE

Kungfuhustler wrote:I think the only KP fix we are going to get is 1kp command squads, well, aside from my speculation Creed will allow guard players to choose mission type. Were only getting a points drop in infantry squads because he's now manditory :(

That's something I never thought about before. It'd be the sort of ability GW would give a high-priced special character, and it'd be in tune with his old ability. If that comes to pass, Creed & Kell would become compulsory for me at least (I'd go with Seize Ground every time)

Agamemnon2 wrote:If that comes to pass, Creed & Kell would become compulsory for me at least (I'd go with Seize Ground every time)

And thus we once again point out one of my greatest if not my greatest pet peeve with the current GW games design philosophy - virtually mandatory special characters. Sorry, I just can't see Creed leeding his men into every engagement they fight, everywhere, at once, simultaneously (like Eldrad). I mean, the rumours of the generic special characters were bad enough (at least you got to invent who they were with them), but if we're about to get another round of 8 (or whatever) army-altering special characters that become all but mandatory, I begin to lose interest very quickly and just go back to caring only about the plastic Valkyrie.

BYE

I'm surprised that BolS hasn't jumped on the latest stream of rumours yet with much gusto. They're probably still smarting from posting that Spanish list.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:If that comes to pass, Creed & Kell would become compulsory for me at least (I'd go with Seize Ground every time)

And thus we once again point out one of my greatest if not my greatest pet peeve with the current GW games design philosophy - virtually mandatory special characters. Sorry, I just can't see Creed leeding his men into every engagement they fight, everywhere, at once, simultaneously (like Eldrad). I mean, the rumours of the generic special characters were bad enough (at least you got to invent who they were with them), but if we're about to get another round of 8 (or whatever) army-altering special characters that become all but mandatory, I begin to lose interest very quickly and just go back to caring only about the plastic Valkyrie.

BYE

So, wait, I guess I'm still not back in the swing of things, but why can't people field two appropriate models as a "Counts as" Kreed and Kell? It seems like a good avenue for conversions, and would let a lot of non-Cadian armies still field appropriately "fluffy" characters.

I agree it's annoying embodying these traits in gear-limited special characters, instead of simply paying points for the ability and using your preferred HQ choice. But it shouldn't be a fluff-breaking as you claim.

Well, for one thing, it's another 2 Kill Points embodied in two T3 independent characters with no ID-protection.

Maybe SO's and HSO's get the Medallion Crimson as standard gear, just like how GW passed out Iron Halo's to all marine commanders like candy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Out of interest, where are you getting your info on Creed, or is it all just wild speculation/what you think will happen?

BYE

Pure speculation. Based on his old rules, his mention by Mkoll as one of the 4 special HQ guys, no other rumors about KP fixes and GW's current trend in codex building I think it's a decent educated guess. I just hope my theory on 4+ saving plasma gunning standard guardsmen for 4 points proves accurate too...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Flamer < Melta < Plasma

False. The three weapons have nothing to do with one another other than all being special weapon options.

Hey, I know. I'm just explaining GW's logic.
Personally I don't even remember fielding a single plasma weapon since 3rd ed. except on vehicles.

What happened to the rumor about 2 KP platoons?

I don't think they'll do 2KP platoons, because however its done it involves math - and we all know Alessio hates the 'M' word...

What they may do (this is pure speculation on my part) is just say that basic Infantry squads don't give up KP's on the basis that the guard don't care how many grunts get killed - while heavy and special weapon squads, officers, tanks etc are more precious resources and worth KP's.


...or they may just leave it as it is and hose IG until 6th ed comes out...

GW won't waste space in the codex on the KP issue.

Unless.. Robin has a mind of his own and doesn't listen to uncle Jervis. We can only hope!

The Grundel wrote:Am I work thinking that the new codex seems extremely unfair?

In 5e killing vehicles is quite difficult and now every non-IG army is going to have to retool their lists to take on THAT much armor at least in a tournament setting. All these rules on the 15+ vehicles that are coming out makes me REALLY not look forward to the codex. Am I wrong by thinking this or do other people understand where I am coming from?

It feels extremely pleasant to be called unfair as a Guard player. That's surely a change for the better.

I'm afraid I have no idea where you're coming from though. Vehicles are quite easy to kill. People get all hyped about cover saves when in fact it isn't that easy to find cover while maintaining good LoS and still be mobile. And immobile tanks are even easier kills.

Secondly, 15+ vehicles? Where did those come from? Looking at points costs, you're either approaching Apoc territory or fielding loads of essentially AV 10 Chimeras.

Dave47 wrote:

BoxANT wrote:I would assume the HS will be TL, which is cool, it would make them excellent at taking out infantry.

Not really. Even with the twin-linking, you're probably better off taking a Heavy Bolter instead of a TL Heavy Stubber. The extra point of strength, and the AP 4 instead of AP 6 makes a big difference.

*Blinks* The mainstream opinion here is that all tanks always get the bestest cover saves and people get all excited because 15 point plasma supposedly isn't worth it because of cover saves and yet the HB's AP makes a difference?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:As I (and many others) see it...Plat addresses the rest of the issue nicely, thanks Plat.

Notice how he says 'many others' when here I right am, in this very thread, agreeing with him, fighting on his side of the argument. He cannot acknowledge my presence, because then he'd have to admit to reading my posts, and his ego simply couldn't take that. He even goes so far as to thank someone else to further hide it.

Amazing.

BYE

I think you're on his ignore HBMC.

Any rumor on the actual price of the Valkyrie, points and $?

Some time ago BOLS posted a price list up to the first week of May. The Valkyrie was there and IIRC it was the same $ as the Land Raider.

How about points?

Frazzled wrote:I think you're on his ignore HBMC.

Gee, ya think?

Frazzled wrote:Any rumor on the actual price of the Valkyrie, points and $?

None of the reports have hinted at a points cost. So it'll be somewhere between 'well costed' and 'horribly over costed'.

BYE

Valkyrie, an open topped transport, fast, skimmer, loads of weapons, deep striking. With the chimera 55pts, and the valkyrie an all new model that GW's trying to sell tons of I'm betting it'll cost 75-80pts before any upgrade.

Valkyrie open topped?

Of course.

GW-logic will be; "Engine intakes and other fidly bits will be vulnerable".

We might say; "But Land Speeders also have fidly bits which you dont care about since the crew have power armour, so the fidlt/vulnerable bits are irrelevant".

GW will say; "Spaze Marenz Hurr!".

Because it's a skimmer and the occupants aren't in power armor.

edsit: /\/\/\