mattyrm wrote:I agree with Kanlu, if someone is posting MY rule sets, and making $$$ out of advertising because of it, then i want the $$$!

I honestly think the GW legal guys are a bit harsh, but welcome to 2009. The whole "modern living" thing sucks, not just GW! Most big corporations are the same, but we dont boycott nintendo, sony, MB games or McDonalds.

What else am i going to play? Chess is ok but.. well.. it doesnt have all that fluff i like. And the Chess club guys are alot less interesting than the GW club guys. (well, barring a few of the more pasty mouthbreathers that frequent it)

I will not be boycotting, i might even apply for a job...

Hellfury wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Where are the apologists?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And N.B.....Apologist refers to someone defending an idea or belief. Not an action.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:But rather than postulate in an intelligent manner, it's straight to 'GW R EVULS LULZ!'.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:This is my issue. People are jumping to conclusions and getting their knickers in a twist over precious little.

agnosto wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I agree with Kanlu, if someone is posting MY rule sets, and making $$$ out of advertising because of it, then i want the $$$!

I honestly think the GW legal guys are a bit harsh, but welcome to 2009. The whole "modern living" thing sucks, not just GW! Most big corporations are the same, but we dont boycott nintendo, sony, MB games or McDonalds.

What else am i going to play? Chess is ok but.. well.. it doesnt have all that fluff i like. And the Chess club guys are alot less interesting than the GW club guys. (well, barring a few of the more pasty mouthbreathers that frequent it)

I will not be boycotting, i might even apply for a job...

They weren't posting rules sets, they were posting rules summaries; kind of like cheat sheets that help with turn sequence and the like, you would still need the rules to play in many, if not most, cases. Rules summaries for games that the company hasn't supported or benefited from in a great number of years in many cases. Seriously, when was the last time you saw Chainsaw Warrior or even heard of it for that matter?

And before you say it; yes I know it's their right to pursue protection of their IP, blah blah blah; but at some point a company needs to stop, take a breath, and ask all interested parties; "Are we ever going to do anything with this again? No? Ok then, let's let them have it."

Arguably the best instance of GW doing something like this was with Blood Bowl but now there's a video game and their scrambling to see what else they can lock down in the insane instance of somebody wanting to make a videogame of that too...

Dear 'Bloodbowl Mania . com' named owner.

If you put the following on the front of your website, prominently, we won't have an issue with you using our stuff and we'd also like to thank you for the support you've shown to our specialist games.

"We at Bloodbowl Mania.com entirely recognise that Bloodbowl the game of fantasy football and all it's associated trademarked names (listed) are the sole Intellectual Property of Games Workshop PLC, our site in no way threatens or challenges the ownership of the aforementioned trademarks. The use of the trademarked names on this site is made possible by the kind permission of Games Workshop PLC, who retain all rights to the Intellectual Property found herein. We at Bloodbowl Mania simply seek to enjoy the hobby aspects of the game and will abide by, and continue to liaise with, Games Workshop PLC."

And also, if you do that, make it a decent looking site and make sure we don't find clear breaches of copyright/IP, we'll even add your link to a list of links we are going to add to a new page on our website.

We hope this will be the beginning of an excellent working relationship. We hope you appreciate the need we have to legally retain our IP and as fans of the games we make, we hope we can rely on your help to ensure that.

Many thanks

The Newer, Smarter GW PLC.

Kanluwen wrote:Not at all hard...until they're under contract to clear out any competition to the video game release.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:You are called an apologist because you defend GW regardless of the particular action or motive but simply because it's games workshop carrying out the action.

Cosmic wrote:

It's sad but true that GW has grown into what it is today, in some ways, but hey, they've just released the Fortress of Redemption (yay) and the world's a happy place. Who will even care to remember about them closing down internet fan-sites? Yes, some of you will, but not everybody. Tomorrow will come, and things move on...

Kilkrazy wrote:A trademark such as the name Blood Bowl™ needs to be defended and undoubtedly forms part of the licence agreement with THQ doing the computer game.

Comparing with the music industry, if web sites are carrying scans of entire games, it shows there is a demand for them. When the games are long OOP, it might be cleverer for GW to offer the scans themselves rather than just try to prevent other people from offering them.

Games Workshop Legal wrote:General Principles

- Please make it clear that your use is unofficial by including some wording to the effect that, for example, "This website is completely unofficial and in no way endorsed by Games Workshop Limited." Are people likely to be confused as to whether your web site or any material was produced by Games Workshop just by looking at it? If so, then you need to alter it. In other words, do not try to make your material look "official."

- Please do not change our trademarks in any way (e.g., stretch or deform them)

- Include an appropriate disclaimer on your web site from the list on the following webpage

- Please make the origins of the intellectual property very clear, in other words, make sure that from a brief review of your material people know that you are unofficially using Games Workshop's intellectual property (and not your own IP or the IP of a third party).

WHAT YOU CANNOT DO WITH GAMES WORKSHOP'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

Please read the following in conjunction with the What you can do section above and the Specific Examples section below. Other than a few exemptions, Games Workshop is not obliged to let anyone use its IP at all (for example, it's a widely held misconception that you can freely make use of someone else's copyrights, without their permission, as long as it's for your own private use - this is currently not an automatic exemption to copyright), and accordingly we always insist that our IP is treated with the respect that we feel that it deserves.

So, If you are using or want to use our intellectual property and you do not have a written license with us, you must not:

- Use Games Workshop's intellectual property in relation to any commercial activity ­ this includes, for example, paying a printer to print some flyers for you, obtaining sponsorship, or selling non-Games Workshop materials using our trademarks.

- Make any direct copies and/or scans of Games Workshop publications, images, or other materials. This includes any Out-o- Production materials, web site materials, and White Dwarf articles. We would however suggest that you produce your own materials (as long as you follow the other requirements of this policy).

- Use our trademarks in respect of your domain name.

- Use our intellectual property in relation to any third party products or third party intellectual property.

- Alter our trademarks in any way.

- Use any of our IP without appropriately crediting the IP and using the appropriate disclaimers in accordance with this policy (see below).

- Create, distribute, or use any material that is not consistent with the functionality, atmosphere, and parameters of the Warhammer universe as created and owned by Games Workshop

- State that anything that you create using Games Workshop's intellectual property is "official."

- Create, distribute, or use any material that is derogatory, obscene, or offensive.

- Create, distribute, or use any material that devalues any Games Workshop product in any way.

SPECIFIC EXAMPLES
In addition to the above rules, we have additional rules for specific uses of our IP. The following is a definitive list of activities and uses that Games Workshop will usually not take active steps to prevent. If your proposed use is not on the list, it is highly likely that we will not permit it. This list may change from time to time so please check it regularly.

Web Sites

Please don't use one of our trademarks to directly identify your web sit (e.g., "The Space Hulk Home Page"). This right is reserved for GW companies and formal licensees only.

This doesn't mean that you can't use our trademarks to talk about our stuff, it just means you need to make it clear that description is the reason why you are using them (e.g., "Cleanse and Burn - my web page dedicated to Games Workshop's Space Hulk game") is fine because you're using our trademarks to simply describe what your web page is about and because it identifies us as the publishers of the game.

Also, please do not use any material from the official Games Workshop websites. Instead, we suggest that you make your own.

Web Names

Please don't use one of our registered trademarks as part of your web domain name. This right is reserved for GW companies and formal licensees only.

Educational Use

Unfortunately, we currently cannot give official "permission" for students to use our IP in relation to their studies for reasons of possible licensing conflicts. Unofficial permission would be governed by the remainder of this document and the specific use of the IP. We would point you in the direction of the "fair use" (US) or "fair dealing" (UK) rules in relation to copyright protected materials and research/educational usage. Be aware that there is not an equivalent doctrine for trademark usage.

Maps

We would ask you not to take direct scans or copies of our maps. We suggest that you create your own equivalents. Again, please avoid reproducing our trademarks.

Making Terrain

If you simply make the terrain for yourself and you have no intention of selling it, any use of our IP in relation to your terrain will probably be okay. Do not reproduce our trademarks. However, as always, you cannot use our intellectual property in relation to a commercial activity - if you make and sell terrain, please avoid using any Games Workshop intellectual property in or in relation to that terrain. For example, do not sell it on Ebay as "Warhammer terrain," as it is not Warhammer terrain. Indeed, only Games Workshop could produce Warhammer Terrain.

Bandwidth Theft and Mirroring Resources

We do not tolerate deep linking to the pictures, images, PDFs or other downloads on our website. Such activity is bandwidth theft. Also, do not mirror the resources that we have on our websites. So, if you want other people to see the materials that we have produced, please use a simple HTML link to the relevant web page.

Themes

While we are likely to be happy for you to create your own desktop themes based upon our IP, please do not use our trademarks in those themes. In other words, do not use our logos and symbols, but please do draw your own version of a Wood Elf or Tyranid.

Photos of Painted Models

We encourage fellow hobbyists to show off their painting skills by taking photos of their miniatures and putting the on the site. Please remember to correctly credit the IP - "miniature © Games Workshop 2003. All rights reserved. Used without permission - model painted by xxxxxxx"

Background

Background text is a major part of the hobby and writing your own is almost as much fun as reading it. Please remember to use the correct trademark disclaimer somewhere on your site, zip file and/or document. We would also ask that at the top of the material you state something equivalent to the following: "Death Ravine" an unofficial story by K. Roundtree derived, without permission, upon the Warhammer intellectual property owned by Games Workshop Ltd." Please note that we consider any background material you write to be a work which is derivative of our intellectual property. As such, you should refrain from putting any notice claiming that anyone other than Games Workshop Ltd has any right over Games Workshop-owned intellectual property or derivatives thereof.

Rules

We encourage fellow hobbyists to invent rules that work for them. There is no need to stick precisely to the published rules. However, if you are thinking about making your own Codex for your Space Marine chapter (in addition to following the other guidelines in this policy), please avoid making it look official as this may confuse gamers and amount to a challenge to our trademarks. Also, do not copy our official publications or documents.

Conversions

Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in intellectual property terms, they also constitute a major infringement. However, we are certainly not about to stop people making cool conversions of our products, although, there are certain things to keep in mind:

Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties.
Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness. Do not create a production run of conversions for sale. Whilst infringing our IP, this is also simply not hobby.
Casting

Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide.

Unreleased Material

While we know that it is always cool to see new material before it arrives on the shelves, we would ask you not to publish, or link to other sites that publish, any material that has not been officially reported or released by Games Workshop. This does not apply to small pieces of conjecture written in your "rumors" section (unless of course said "rumors" are akin to publishing unreleased material).

Forums

We have no problem with people using forums to express their love (or even hate) of the hobby. We would, however, ask people to bear in mind that the hobby is for people all ages. Please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed. We would strongly recommend that you avoid any discussion of illegal behavior.

Movies

The video games that our licensing partners have created have done an incredible job of bringing the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 games to life, and we appreciate that hobbyists may even want to make movies based upon our intellectual property. Unfortunately, due to the nuances of the law in some territories, we cannot allow any unlicensed movies to be created which are based upon our intellectual property.

Modifications, Total Conversions, and Games

We want people to express their enjoyment of our games with as little interference from us as possible, as long as they behave reasonably with our IP and follow any reasonable requests that we may make. We are not inherently opposed to hobbyists creating games or mods using our IP, in fact we are flattered that people want to spend so much time creating games and mods in the GW universes.

If you want to make a game, TC or a mod using our IP you must adhere to the following (in addition to the general principles as outlined above):

Any game or mod must be a "total conversion." In other words, you must not use our intellectual property (logos, images, names etc.) in relation to the worlds, names, logos, or images of any other company. For example, you cannot place our Space Marines in a Disney total conversion using the Unreal engine, but you could make a TC solely using Space Marines with the Unreal engine. This is, of course, assuming that you have permission to use the Unreal engine.

Please bear in mind that we may require you to remove the game or mod from any public forum at any time so that we can comply with any licenses that we may have with computer game publishers/developers. Be aware that we may even have to insist that the mod be destroyed. Please take very careful note of this statement, as we would not want you to feel unfairly treated at a later date.

The game or mod must be strictly non-commercial - this includes any web site that the mod or game is hosted on. You also cannot pay a printing company to publilsh copies of it onto CD. It may also mean that you cannot get sponsorship.

It must be made clear on any readme files, splash/intro screens and accompanying material that the game or mod is unofficial and the origins of the intellectual property must be made obvious (e.g., your mod might say "Battletoes ­ a total conversion for XXXX (insert game name) using intellectual property owned by Games Workshop. Used without permission...etc." See the relevant disclaimer on the following page.).

The game or mod must not devalue any Games Workshop product in any way.

Any distribution (zipped or otherwise) of the whole, or any part, of the mod or game must be accompanied with the appropriate disclaimers and must also follow these guidelines.

The functionality, atmosphere, and parameters of any mod or game must be consistent with the relevant IP.
Skins

Unfortunately, GW cannot allow thirds parties to use our IP without properly crediting our ownership. It is not possible to credit ownership with skins and accordingly we do not allow their creation.

Online Auctions

Do not use our trademarks in relation to products that are not owned by or originate from Games Workshop (see Making Terrain above).

Do not associate our products or IP with any third party products or IP.

We would encourage you to use digital photographs of any materials that you are planning on selling. Do not use any materials from any GW website to sell the product.

Café Press

We cannot allow users to make and or sell derivatives of our copyright protected material or our trademarks on the café press or any similar websites.

Web Comics

We would probably not take issue with anyone creating a web comic based upon our intellectual property - but as with forums, keep in mind that the hobby is for people of all ages. Please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed. We would strongly recommend that you avoid any topics concerning illegal behavior, obscenity, or libel.

Fonts

Unfortunately, GW cannot allow third parties to use our trademarks without properly crediting our ownership, lest they be damaged. With fonts, it is difficult, if not impossible, to use the marks and credit Games Workshop as rightful owners. Accordingly, do not use our IP in relation to fonts.

Screen Savers

As is the case with fonts, GW cannot allow third parties to use our trademarks without properly crediting our ownership, lest they be damaged. You may only create screen savers if it properly credits our IP. We would also remind you that you cannot alter or change our trademarks in any way.

Animations

We would probably not have a problem with anyone creating animations based upon our intellectual property - as long as there is no commercial connection to that creation. Again, please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed.

Club Names and Trademarks

We actively encourage hobbyists to begin their own clubs connected with the hobby. In fact, in most territories, we have an employee tasked with helping people set up and run their clubs. However, we would advise anyone with a club or starting a club to avoid directly using our trademarks (do not, for example call the club, "The Warhammer Club"). Instead, create your own names, such as "The Hellfire Hunters," "Da Narsty Boarz," or other, far more creative names than these pathetic examples.

Fanzines

Fanzines are a great way to immerse yourself in the hobby. However, if you are thinking about starting a fanzine, please do not use our trademarks. Again, we would remind you that the main principles set out at the head of this page apply to fanzines, as they do to all of the specific examples herein. Importantly, if you are creating a solely GW-focused fanzine, do not sell your fanzine and do not obtain any sponsorship.

Out-of-Print Material

Please do not scan, copy, or republish any out-of-print (OOP) materials. It may be that in the future we reuse or license out the use of this material.

Out of Production Games

We frequently get requests from the older hobbyists out there to make computer versions of our old games - some of you out there will remember games like Blockmania, Chainsaw Warrior and indeed Talisman from many years ago, and a lot of those that do remember them very fondly indeed. There are three good reasons why we cannot allow this - one of which is simply that it will necessarily make use of our copyright in ways that are not permitted anywhere else in this document. Secondly, providing a system for playing the game on the internet effectively means that you could play the game without having ever bought it originally, which therefore devalues Games Workshop products as outlined above. Finally, as with Talisman, it may be that we decide to revisit some of these games at some time in the future to create a better, updated version for all.

E-mail Lists

Placing scans or copies of any Games Workshop material on an e-mail list or news group is a violation of our rights and amounts to a serious infringement. Please do not participate in this activity, and if you are aware of it, please write to the legal department on the following email address: Legal@games-workshop.co.uk

Thank you very much for your compliance with the above policies. We know that there is a lot here and appreciate that you have taken the time to read it all.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:-Yes, those who don't care about how GW treated those fans can continue to make purchases and ignore those who choose to take action.