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Reecius wrote:I suppose the best of both worlds would be to have Phil Kelly write them all!

Wait... Wasn't Phil Kelly the genius behind Jaws of the World Wolf?

DON'T LET HIM NEAR MY 'CRONS! FOR THE LOVE OF KAELIS RA, DON'T LET HIM NEAR MY 'CRONS!

Unless he made them powerful enough to wipe the grin off an Imperial Guard Tank Commander. Then I'll be happy.

Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.

So is there anyone who writes good codexes then?

Scarey Nerd wrote:Hold the vox-transmitter...

Does anyone else remember a Necron Codex rumour that said that the rules were finalised, its just that Matt Ward is having trouble with the fluff. If this means that they'll draft in other writers to help...

We might not be doomed!

That rumour wasn't quite right however.

At Black Library live yesterday in the Space Marine seminar, with James Swallow and Nick Kyme, some one asked about doing more Space Marine vs Necron books.

James reply was that it was unlikely at the moment because Matt Ward was currently working on them, and writing there background.

He also added that we would also likely see there behaviour change in a big way and wanted to say more but Nick said that they were unable to talk about it at all.

..hmm... I feel obliged to point out that "Fall of Damnos" features Necrons.

That's written by Mr. Kyme, who you might remember also featured the Dark Eldar -- including new background odds and sods -- in a previous novel too.

"Surrender and die" indeed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.

lol!

asimo77 wrote:So is there anyone who writes good codexes then?

Phil Kelly largely writes good codices. I think Cruddace and Ward each have a good codex each, with one subpar/wacky codex that came out afterward (IG to Tyranids, Marines to Blood Bloods)

Samus_aran115 wrote: If they get transports, they'll be impossible to kill, I think (living metal+FNP guys inside would be murder)

And the problem with that will be...?

Scarey Nerd wrote:Does anyone else remember a Necron Codex rumour that said that the rules were finalised, its just that Matt Ward is having trouble with the fluff. If this means that they'll draft in other writers to help...

How many multilasers do you think Monoliths will have in the new book? I suspect 4 at a minimum.

Brother SRM wrote:

asimo77 wrote:So is there anyone who writes good codexes then?

Phil Kelly largely writes good codices. I think Cruddace and Ward each have a good codex each, with one subpar/wacky codex that came out afterward (IG to Tyranids, Marines to Blood Bloods)

IG is considered a well-done codex? Really? It is no mystery why every codex release sees the discovery of a new combo in IG that keeps it as God Tier. The thing is just so outrageously versatile and undercosted to the point of being broken. For 20 points less IG gets twice as many BS4 models as Tactical Squads in their Veterans who also have better access to special weapons and some of the best transports in the game via the Chimera and Valkyrie/Vendetta. Sure they are inferior to Tactical Marines in combat but if your ChiMeltaVets are in close combat then you are doing something horribly wrong. The IG codex identifies that IG are supposed to win through massed shooting but they have literally no sacrifices in their unit choices to balance the awesome that you get. And 9 heavy support choices is okay? Vendettas are fast and have three TL Lascannons for 150 points while Tri-Las Predators have to sit still and only have TL on one for 15 more points?

Sorry, I'm way off topic, I'll stop my little rant.

As far as the rumors go it worries me that the rules are said to be finished and everyone indicates at the removal of WBB. I've been seriously considering starting Necrons as I love the way they look with a splash of gold but dumping WBB for FNP will certainly kill some of the cool factor in my opinion. I'm sure they will be plenty competitive though so you loyal Necron players will finally get whats due to you.

Maybe the trouble he's having with the fluff is that someone at GW likes their fluff, and keeps sending his crap back for a rewrite ?

Please let this be so...

They reallly need to hire a few more competent codex writers.

half the peopel on here cvan write a half decent codex! At least the majority of the fandexes i've seen are pretty good.
Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.

Praxiss wrote:Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.

This is a great idea, why doesn't GW consult their fanbase about directions to take with the fluff? They wouldn't have to divulge any massive spoilers and compromise the work put into the newest book but they could ask general questions and hold community polls on their site. Perhaps have a special fluff-centric membership program where they share more intimate details about the story in progress to receive feedback from those who are diehards about GW fluff.

H.B.M.C. wrote:But it's not the carving of the name upon Mortarion's heart that's the bad part about Draigo's entry. A Grey Knight Chapter Master taking on a Daemon Primarch I don't have that much of an issue with. It happened with Angron (though there were 100+/- GK's in that fight). The issue is the childish narrative structure he weaves into the story that makes you sit back and go "Does he re-read what he writes, or does he just move onto the next absurd feat?"

I mean look at this:
snip

I agree that it is a bit over the top, but I like OTT. H.B.M.C. is an OTT poster and I still like him.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that a lot of these entries are legend about the character. Was Paul Bunyan 20 foot tall and drank rivers for breakfast? Probably not. Did Draigo literally carve his name into Mortarion's heart? Unlikely. The whole Draigo section does start with 'The tale of Draigo starts...' That being said, fact checking:

- He struck the killing blow on the Daemon Prince, it wasn't one on one.
- I think the heart thing is kinda silly. Was Mortarion waving the heart around? Or is this more like, he carved his name on his heart (breastplate). The literal text is that 'to carve his forbear's name on Mortarion's rotting heart'
- Before being sucked into the warp, he held a pass against the chaos hordes for a couple days and didn't miss once. (No mention of how big it was. This is the kind of thing Space Marines just do though. I think Calgar did it as well and I'm sure if we look back through fluff there are others.)
- He fought the DP again (with 200+ years more experience) and barely won, getting sucked into the warp. (as above) His sword was shattered, but he still had the hilt and stump of the blade.
- He travelled for an 'uncounted age'. I'm guessing he got a little XP at some point during the 'uncounted age'. It is unclear how long 'uncounted age' is, but the other stuff happens during this time. I personally think this guy is more like a Dark Wanderer type character, forced to walk forever and cursed to live kind of thing.
- He kills a BT with his stump sword and uses the BT's axe to reforge his sword.
- He didn't burn down Nurgle's entire garden. He 'unleashed cleansing flame in the jungles of Nurgle's domain'.
- He defeated some temptress Daemonettes. Woo big deal there. lol
- He did take out a Lord of Change and buried him in a city. That was pretty impressive and a bit OTT. Killing a LoC, okay. Burying him in a city, umm, maybe big psychic discharge?
- He has killed thousands of daemons and they pretty much leave him alone now unless they have to deal with him. (Except for Khorne's crazies). I can buy this. Even Daemon's aren't stupid. This guy is a walking death machine, do we really need to go mess with him?
- Oh and all of his works in the Realm of Chaos? They are fleeting. His entry also lists the jungles as regrowing, the city as rebuilt and all the slain demons as having been reborn in new bodies. This guy has one bum deal.
- He isn't listed as fighting that DP again though. He kills a prophet of that DP.
- He now walks forever and occasionally gets pulled into realspace.


Personally, these kinds of characters are what make 40k fun and crazy.
Solar Macharius bringing more worlds under Imperial rule than any other general since the crusade and personally leading a great many of them? Awesome!
Ragnar going into a death hive and coming out a couple months later none the worse for wear? Cool!
Primarchs who can fight legions of other marines and laugh in their face? Sweet.
Draigo being cursed to walk forever but never achieve lasting victory or defeat? I like it.
Lysander being lost in the warp for 1000 years and escaping from iron warriors naked and with his bare hands? I can dig it.

40k is OTT. That's just how it goes.


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SonicPara wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.

This is a great idea, why doesn't GW consult their fanbase about directions to take with the fluff? They wouldn't have to divulge any massive spoilers and compromise the work put into the newest book but they could ask general questions and hold community polls on their site. Perhaps have a special fluff-centric membership program where they share more intimate details about the story in progress to receive feedback from those who are diehards about GW fluff.

Two words: Angry Marines.

Do you really want that?

Do Graham McNeill and Andy Hoare not write codexes any more? I'm not up to speed on GW writers, but those two are by far my favourite Codex writers, as both worked on the Necron Codex, Andy Hoare wrote the Tau codex, and I think the two of them together wrote Witchhunters. If they could partner up for the new Necron Codex, I would be very happy.

pretre wrote:two words: Angry Marines.

Do you really want that?

yes i do! Angry Marines are awesomeness

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

pretre wrote:two words: Angry Marines.

Do you really want that?

yes i do! Angry Marines are awesomeness

And this, Dakka, is why we can't have nice things.

Angry Marines would be ruined if GW took over. The reason they are so popular is because they are hilarious, GW would screw that up horribly.

Also if they "listened to the fanbase" then the codices would all start to suck horribly as well. Everyone that plays said codex would want this super rule and that badass special ability. As much as it pains me to say it, it would be better if we just let them do their jobs. Every new edition of 40k comes with some armies being better and others not so much. Lets just keep it like that, other wise we will all be paying 50% higher prices to play warhammer 4+k

Scarey Nerd wrote:Do Graham McNeill and Andy Hoare not write codexes any more?

No, neither of them is a member of the design team.

Both are freelance writers, doing work for Black Library, FFG and the like.

reds8n wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:Do Graham McNeill and Andy Hoare not write codexes any more?

No, neither of them is a member of the design team.

Both are freelance writers, doing work for Black Library, FFG and the like.

Awwww, thats a shame. In that case, I don't know how our Codex can't have major problems...

Ascalam wrote:Maybe the trouble he's having with the fluff is that someone at GW likes their fluff, and keeps sending his crap back for a rewrite ?

Yeah, Rick, Gav, Andy and Graham look to it and Alessio looks for game balance ... erm ... wait

I didn't say game balance The rules are an entirely other story from the fluff...

I was hoping against hope that someone likes the fluff in the current codex, and doesn't want it butchered

All I ask (and i know i'll be disappointed) is a codex that isn't free advertising for the Astartes, but instead makes my chosen army look good, in their own book. The novels and main fluff will always be Marines Uber Alles, but a race's codex really should brag up that race.

A good example of that would be the Ork codex. There are a few defeats in there, but they aren't marine fanwank with a single marine holding off a whole waagh or headbutting Ghazgkull to death in one blow...

Most of the timeline/fluff section deals with either ork wins, or very orky losses like the warboss who travels accidentally back in time to before he left, hunts himself down and kills himself to get a spare copy of his best shoota, causing the waagh to just grind to a halt in the confusion with his death..

I have to agree with you there. I can't stand 90% of the Tyranid fluff in the new codex.

If Necrons get fluff like that ill be plenty upset

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.

This makes baby termagaunt cry.

Hello guys... I will keep saying WBB os feel no pain, the only diference is the time you do the second test...
I really dont understand why this around WBB/FnP, the rules are almost the same, you just give a diferent excuse for FnP...

When i was young i quit Magic: the Gathering (TCG) because of this "each edition increase power, and the new edition is the most powerfull" thing. As i am in the hobby for the last 6 months, all i have seem is are the releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and now Gray Knights. Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?

If it is, i just knew where it will end, and so, i will wait for Mantic Sci Fi set...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hello guys... I will keep saying WBB os feel no pain, the only diference is the time you do the second test...
I really dont understand why this around WBB/FnP, the rules are almost the same, you just give a diferent excuse for FnP...

When i was young i quit Magic: the Gathering (TCG) because of this "each edition increase power, and the new edition is the most powerfull" thing. As i am in the hobby for the last 6 months, all i have seem is are the releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and now Gray Knights. Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?

If it is, i just knew where it will end, and so, i will wait for Mantic Sci Fi set...

Because with FnP you can't blob together squads and make a giant squadron of Destroyers who just look at infantry/tanks and kill them.

FNP would also possibly stop Crons from being swept off the board by grots.. just saying

I have no problem with WBB, but i'm not overly fussed if it becomes FNP or similar.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Maybe the trouble he's having with the fluff is that someone at GW likes their fluff, and keeps sending his crap back for a rewrite ?

Yeah, Rick, Gav, Andy and Graham look to it and Alessio looks for game balance ... erm ... wait

Wait good point, alessio left so who does check for game balance?

No-one, is my guess..

That's why the most recent codecii, which have been rather unbalanced or not-so-wonderful (except for DE, which is more or less balanced IMO) have managed to get through unchallenged

I think they're probably leaving the game balance checking (or not...) in the hands of the codex writer. Gods help us.

Well alessio is still mentioned in the games development part of the de codex, so i guess he did balance it. also they had been working on it for a long time.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?

Allegations toward such a concept have been around for a long time. We call it 'codex creep'. And GW has been insisting that it doesn't happen. And that all codices are created in a vacuum, where previous codices do not influence their development... But evidence to the contrary has me convinced otherwise. Tyranids were okay when they were released. But much of what has been released since appears engineered to counter Nids. And I'm betting Necrons and GK will beat the snot out of DE, despite DE appearing hearty and balanced currently.

From what i have read, Gk will beat the snot out of just abotu anything.