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Hold your breath until you get what you want!

Classic three year old tactic!

In the course of history, someone will get what they want if they hold their breath.

Boycott GW for a day, a week, a month....

You know & they know you WILL eventually buy that new item....They have all the time and money to wait for your purchase....

If GW sees their client basis dimishis by you & all your boycott buddies not buying AND not going into any store to play the game anymore, that might send a signal....

But with people buying everyday and hundreds of new people getting into GW hobby every week world wide, you wont be missed by GW...I do not say that to be mean, it is a fact....

GW is a street walker and we are the John's...there are plenty of John's for them out there....

She (GW) is just charging a tad more for her tricks, and new partons will never know what you paid a year ago for what she charges now for that

Hey, I spent thousands on GW over the last 20 years....I don't expect any special treatment or thank you card for deciding to join this hobby....

It was a choice, and with the choice you accept what comes....

See you on the front lines!

And it's a virtual Pint for the man above!

Nice one Cyril!

The man has a point, these protests of not buying for a small period of time have little impact.

That's why I'm finishing off my armies and then calling time on GW.

I was planning 3 large armies in 2011-12 and they will now not happen.

Mrs S and I are already eyeing warmahordes and malifaux. I'm debating a soviet tank army for FoW, I'm also interested in trying out distopian wars and infinity.

I'm also going to spend a large part of that money on a big fish tank for the lounge. Because it was never about not having disposable income but rather the product greatly outstripping it's perceived worth. I think the GW minis are far beyond what they're worth now and so will spend my cash on other things.

And another virtual Pint for a coherent, personal take on 'sorry, I don't want to pay that price'.

Nice one Cyril!

Any boycott has to be for a minimum of a quarter and get as many people as possible to pledge for a year.

Also the pledge should include a 'commitment' to still spend on the gaming materials from other companies, or Gw will think the boycott will only mean a save and spend.

The best way of doing that is not to boycott GW ut tom pledge that GW will only get one pound/dollar/euro in ten of the gaming money. Send the message that not only are yiou willing to not spend at GW but you are willing to spend elsewhere. That and only that will get their attention, as it threatens a permanent loss of custom.

Actually the moste efficient boycott is the one, GW is currently doing on customers. You will soon see that nothing is as effective at driving down sales as a total information boycott and marketing stop on new products, the retraction of half the product range (metals) making it difficult to buy legal armies (no plastic HQ), the cutting off of the Southern market, the constant raising the hurdle for beginners (prices for starter boxes and Codices, lowering point costs while raising the average army point costs -> Fantasy 8th edition), the sueing and harrassing of fan websites and aftermarket companies, the neglect of introductory games, the closing of stores, the reducing of staff (including creative staff at HQ, hiring IP lawyers instead ), and so on.

If you follow GW business reports, you will see that this boycott is going on for some years, but put to the extreme now. Noone can make a boycott to drive down GW sales better than the current GW management. The next business report will prove me right

Kroothawk wrote:Actually the moste efficient boycott is the one, GW is currently doing on customers. You will soon see that nothing is as effective at driving down sales as a total information boycott and marketing stop on new products, the retraction of half the product range (metals) making it difficult to buy legal armies (no plastic HQ), the cutting off of the Southern market, the constant raising the hurdle for beginners (prices for starter boxes and Codices, lowering point costs while raising the average army point costs -> Fantasy 8th edition), the sueing and harrassing of fan websites and aftermarket companies, the neglect of introductory games, the closing of stores, the reducing of staff (including creative staff at HQ, hiring IP lawyers instead ), and so on.

If you follow GW business reports, you will see that this boycott is going on for some years, but put to the extreme now. Noone can make a boycott to drive down GW sales better than the current GW management. The next business report will prove me right

+1 to this. From my perspective, GW customer boycott probably began sometime during 4th edition.

As someone who’s recently jumped ship to PP, it still feels weird to deal with a company that actually communicates with its customers and provide frequent rules updates

nosferatu1001 wrote:GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.

No, GW is a large company within the wargaming hobby, not a hobby unto themselves, no matter what their "marketing" might tell you. Yes, they are influential. Yes, they are a "gateway drug" for a lot of starters within the wargaming hobby.

No, there is no such thing as the "GW Hobby".....

Debateable. As you can procure everything you need to play their games from their] stores, there is a distinct 'GW Hobby' within the wider Wargaming hobby.

And I for one enjoy the GW Hobby more than the wider one, as it's what I'm used to, and for some reason I just can't get to grips with non-GW stuff. YMMV of course.

How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.

nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.

Market cap is 1.32m GBP, so to completely own all shares in GW, you'd need 1.32m GBP.

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure how the company is organized, but you'd probably only need 51% of that to have guaranteed controlling interest.

nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.

Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?

mikhaila wrote:

nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.

Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?

And this is the reason why I haven't already filed the paperwork to start an NPO designed to accept donations to this very end. It's an amazingly lofty goal, but I'm not sure I'd have the time, and honestly, I don't feel right taking money to try to effect change on a crapshoot. We wouldn't ever end up with 51%. We'd be lucky to hit 1% after a year's donation. Even then, I really don't believe that there's much you can do at that point other than become the noisy bothersome guy everyone blows off at the shareholder meetings. Even then, how do you 'fix' things? Would attempted veto of the price hike fix it? For all you know, they've blown enough money into the overhead involved in finecast to require the pricehike to see profits maintained after this year. For all you know, they've got market analysts that have spent far more time and energy determining that keeping gamers in the dark actually DOES make more money. I'm not sure how that could be, but I'm trying devil's advocate here.

Suppose, worst case, we did all this, somehow actually managed to gain controlling interest in the company, and then we did the things gamers asked for, and killed the company as a result. Would that be better? Where would we all be then?

daedalus wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

nevertellmetheodds wrote:How much would it cost to create investment group, by gamers for gamers and buy up all GW's shares? (or majority) Hell i would put a few grand down.

Way, way more than gamers would every put up.) Why would people complaining about spening 15% extra on a few hundred dollars a year spend thousands? How would you find thousands of such individuals? How would you manage the money, and who makes the decisions?

And this is the reason why I haven't already filed the paperwork to start an NPO designed to accept donations to this very end. It's an amazingly lofty goal, but I'm not sure I'd have the time, and honestly, I don't feel right taking money to try to effect change on a crapshoot. We wouldn't ever end up with 51%. We'd be lucky to hit 1% after a year's donation. Even then, I really don't believe that there's much you can do at that point other than become the noisy bothersome guy everyone blows off at the shareholder meetings. Even then, how do you 'fix' things? Would attempted veto of the price hike fix it? For all you know, they've blown enough money into the overhead involved in finecast to require the pricehike to see profits maintained after this year. For all you know, they've got market analysts that have spent far more time and energy determining that keeping gamers in the dark actually DOES make more money. I'm not sure how that could be, but I'm trying devil's advocate here.

Suppose, worst case, we did all this, somehow actually managed to gain controlling interest in the company, and then we did the things gamers asked for, and killed the company as a result. Would that be better? Where would we all be then?

I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...

Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...

Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.

And this is exactly the point. I'm a technical guy with passing knowledge of economics and 'the stock market' (for some definitions of 'stock market'). I'm not one who should be telling any company how to do their business, because I'd approach it from the customer's point of view and it would crumble because I'd realize at the end of the day I haven't actually turned a buck since I started. By the same token, the man in the suit has never played the game and probably doesn't know anything about the company other than that it is a 'game' company. It's about considering when to dump the stock. The only game they play, to abuse a stereotype, is golf. For all they know, GW's a smaller Hasbro or Mattel, making board games or 'action figures'. They're not customer-minded, even when being so could align with improving stock value. I'm sure the low level people are, but they're also powerless to actually do anything about it. There's just no middle ground between the two.

Dam. I hate to reverse my stand on this topic.

I went to my local GW store and saw the finecast. Very nice.

Then I saw the prices. My local GW manager didn't even bother to remove the old prices!

A $23 box of minis now $29.75?

5 Blood nights (finecast) $99.99?

A $9.99 blister, now in finecast for $18.75?

FW is now the cheaper way to make an army!

I had planned to make another 2k army for 40k, was going to be $590 ttl....If it is all finecast, now it'll run me $730!!!!!!

WTF GW?

Definately will just play the army I have and NOT buy anymore GW stuff....Seriously.

I could buy a painted new minis BA army or DE army off ebay for $700!!!!!!!! Really!

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...

Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.

I think that they do know what their customers want and provide it.

Believe it or not, the angry mob on the internet is nothing but a very loud minority of their fanbase whose ranting they take with a rather large grain of salt.

Mr Mystery wrote:Debateable. As you can procure everything you need to play their games from their] stores, there is a distinct 'GW Hobby' within the wider Wargaming hobby.

And I for one enjoy the GW Hobby more than the wider one, as it's what I'm used to, and for some reason I just can't get to grips with non-GW stuff. YMMV of course.

My response is mostly to contribute to discussion, partially to argue with you.

well, the first step of curing oneself of GWmania is to go to an FLGS for your raw supplies/basing material/tools etc. Not sure about the UK, but out here GW branded stuff costs three times as much as non-branded/Testors stuff. Lets look at the tiny tub of flock. For the same price, maybe a little more, I can get three large spice jars' worth of flock, that I can mix together to get the same thing. Even sand/ballast and gravel is cheaper from generic/non-branded suppliers than GW. Add to that that there is a wider array of materials, like deer moss and whatever other types of multicolored foam that GW itself does not carry. GW has also taken progressive steps away from encouraging creativity, to encouraging buying their product, evidencable by the decreasing number of tutoraials showing you how to make something from scratch. Even superglue/Plastic glue has a 3:1 cost ration from GW to non-branded, and the same money I'd spend at GW for files, i could get more with from a non-branded. The GW hobby is not just expensive, but stiffles creative development.

Since then I have been trying to get 2x the awesome out of a single GW kit, trying to use as few parts as possible, replacing those parts with plasticard featuring custom designs. I've started savaging my SM tanks, cutting the doors off and removing as much as I could from the inside of the tanks for use elsewhere. Its not like anyone sees the gutted innards anyway. From there, once you see how much more you can get out of something, I find its easy to transition to the other games. The key thing thats also missing from the GW hobby is the scratch-building they've gotten rid of. I will say it was quite a learning experience to assemble the gaming board, decorate it, as well as working on the conversions. When I am building a tank from scratch or craeting custom/replacement parts, I need to get my angles down perfect and my measurements right too, if I get anything wrong, its back to the drawing board to start again, so one can learn some things about engineering/math. add to that the need for custom parts. If GW doesn't have it, or I can't afford it, I need to find some way of making it.

I find that's my problem with GW. Once kits start getting so expensive as to make anyone cringe about kit-bashing or converting etc, because screwing up will be unconscionable, that puts a bigger dent in my motivation to buy. Well, that, and the higher cost of the GW brand hobby (tools, materials, etc). Still not convinced? How much more beer could you get if you paid less for your stuff? Alternately, how many more nights would your significant other not have "a headache", or other ailment, or require you to spend fewer days setting up camp in the proverbial and or literal dog house if you spent less?

Monster Rain wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd love to see certain people do it. You know, those with absolutely no more experience than anyone else in running a global company. Because they are always banging on about GW being poorly run, without really having any experience...

Hahaha yeah. Knowing what the customers want and providing it is useless in business management.

I think that they do know what their customers want and provide it.

Believe it or not, the angry mob on the internet is nothing but a very loud minority of their fanbase whose ranting they take with a rather large grain of salt.

To a certain extent, yes. However, I believe that there are some legitimate complaints in between moans about warhams being "to expensive". The reported heat sensitivity on finecast models is some cause for concern. The lagging and often lackluster FAQ release schedule is cause for concern. The refusal to communicate about upcoming product release is cause for concern. "OMG THERE JUST WANTING MY MUNEY!" really isn't, because so does the every other company out there. The oil company isn't you friend. Your phone company isn't your friend. The grocery store isn't your friend. And GW isn't your friend. They're not supposed to be. At least GW is something you can buy less of and still make it to work.

daedalus wrote:To a certain extent, yes. However, I believe that there are some legitimate complaints in between moans about warhams being "to expensive". The reported heat sensitivity on finecast models is some cause for concern. The lagging and often lackluster FAQ release schedule is cause for concern. The refusal to communicate about upcoming product release is cause for concern. "OMG THERE JUST WANTING MY MUNEY!" really isn't, because so does the every other company out there. The oil company isn't you friend. Your phone company isn't your friend. The grocery store isn't your friend. And GW isn't your friend. They're not supposed to be. At least GW is something you can buy less of and still make it to work.

Oh I do hope I wasn't implying that I agree with everything that GW does.

Far from it. The points you raised in that post about some areas in which they are lacking are 100% spot on, and if this were the time or place I would add a few of my own personal annoyances.

I would go so far as to say that all of the ranting on the internets is actually bad for the hobby, because the legitimate complaints get lost against the overwhelming silly and unreasonable background noise.

Also, the part that I've bolded is one of the most intelligent things I've read on this forum in quite some time. Kudos, sir.

It's all about it being your hobby.

Believe it or not, but GW staff are told to engage with the customer about the customer's hobby, and not their own hobby, or even the 'whole' hobby. If you like painting, I'd chat to you about that. If you like converting and scratchbuilding, I'd find out about your favourites etc, enquire after your next project.

There is of course the necessary product link, the company is after there to make money. But I can guarantee you when it's done right (I guess that be the tricky bit!) you have a happy customer, even if they haven't bought anything. Hell, I'd settle for a sign up to the website.

<message redacted - we don't use certain words like that around here --Janthkin>

GW themselves said... well, the guy at the top on a half million pound yearly salary... that product numbers are down but sales are consistant and we paid ourselves again

In other words... selling less items to less people but coz they dramatically increased the price, they made the same money

'Introducing" 100 new players spending $200 in their first purchase, then $50 every few months...
Compared to 10000 veterans who spend $1000 at a time and could afford the same every few months

obviously not 'every' veteran.... hence only 10000 quoted

They are pricing their main customer (veterans) out in favour for the odd few newbies

The newbies may be the increase in new sales, but the veterans are the dollar value

As a hobby, GW provides large (Apocalypse) and small (FOC) scale options to play... you can collect an army or indulge in many different armies... and you can pick and choose your depth of involvement in the 'game'

As a cost, it is not a luxury item, yet... it is still cheaper than drinking in pubs every other night or cheaper than smoking a pack a day... or worse, both.

I do not baulk at the price increases, i'm fethin miffed of course, but it or the next few will not curb my appitite for the game. I am not 'lucky' enough to be able to afford to keep playing, I can afford to play because I prioritise my disposable income.

I am very miffed though at the idiotic business plans and decisions that GW have subjected the veterans and loyal followers of the game. I have been involved since 1985 and have spent over AU25,000 in puchases and I do not intend to stop yet.

However, I will never, never pay GW Australian prices again. I have relatives in England and I will utilise their advantages and still save 50% off GWAU prices.

I hope GWAU goes bankrupt as a division, I hope they pull their stores out of Australia... this is what Wells and co must be aiming for after all.

The issue with GW is not the prices... it's their treatment of their resellers, their loyal veterans, and the hobby in general.

Games Workshop was started as a business to cater for wargammers and they strived to support the veterans of the game... the Stock Exchange version was to make money for themselves... only.... and feth the veteran gamers.

Wells and co started as employees on 50/60K a year... now nearly half a million as a director... don't kid yourself that it's just a business like all the others. It's a high end niche market toy soldier maker... how can you compare that to Levi or Microsoft or Tescos... please play in perspective... GW is valued by 31 milion shares... not that big in the business world.

Prices always move up and down... but loyalty is earned

I started playing the GW game as an adult and I spent thousands of dollars because I supported GW as an entity that supported me... the decline started for me when they took my beloved 'Epic' out of their stores... and I am still loyal... for now

mik

Mr Mystery wrote:It's all about it being your hobby.

Believe it or not, but GW staff are told to engage with the customer about the customer's hobby, and not their own hobby, or even the 'whole' hobby. If you like painting, I'd chat to you about that. If you like converting and scratchbuilding, I'd find out about your favourites etc, enquire after your next project.

There is of course the necessary product link, the company is after there to make money. But I can guarantee you when it's done right (I guess that be the tricky bit!) you have a happy customer, even if they haven't bought anything. Hell, I'd settle for a sign up to the website.

this has never ever been my experience with GW staff. Only one maganer had ever been friendly, helpful and actually inclined to go beyond the GW brand, the rest have been repugnant condescending [self-censored], surrounded by repugnant condescending like-minded customer-friend[self-censored]. Simply put, if I'm more interested in having fun, and they're condescending to me because they're hard-wired for tournament play... I even got into an argument with an employee, and he'd gotten quite condescending when I told him gaunts were expensive. He told me that back in 2001 they used to be $32, so their being $28 was actually a reduction. It took me a while to prove to him he was lying through his teeth, because in 2001 a box of gaunts came with 16 terma- and 16 horma- gaunts, as opposed to the just 16 now.

These are all experiences I've heard repeated on the west coast and eastern canada too..

Mind youj, now that i think about it, [self-censored]-salesreps seem to be a growing trend. The customer always seems to be right the moment he intends on buying something, but should the customer be disinclined or unconvinced to buy anything, then they just start berating you...

If you feel so strongly about it, and all the others who plan to boycott gw, why don't you travel to your countries HQ and protest, anyone could say that they are going to join in on the internet and then the next day go and pick up a battleforce

Meh. I bought the new DE Scourges today. I'm typically pretty judicious with my purchases anyways.

I'm going to get the pic in my sig blown up and put on a t-shirt, then wear it to every tourney I play in.

Unfortunately I don't live in Syndey otherwise I'd wear it to Oz Games Day (not that Games day is worth going to).

yeah,
Waaa your Sig is great... and very of the moment, who made it?

Panic...

Mantle wrote:If you feel so strongly about it, and all the others who plan to boycott gw, why don't you travel to your countries HQ and protest, anyone could say that they are going to join in on the internet and then the next day go and pick up a battleforce

That won't work so well in the states. People might travel one to two thousand miles to Memphis, but after packing a sign in front of GW HQ in the heat and humidity for longer than 10 minutes, they'll quit and head for the nearby beer and barbeque. Then probably get a game in at the bunker, see something shiny, forget why they came, and buy the new models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dysartes wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:GW is a hobby (not "THE" hobby, just "A" hobby, for all those failing to understand the difference) and you are free to leave it at any time.

No, GW is a large company within the wargaming hobby, not a hobby unto themselves, no matter what their "marketing" might tell you. Yes, they are influential. Yes, they are a "gateway drug" for a lot of starters within the wargaming hobby.

No, there is no such thing as the "GW Hobby".....

Depends on your point of view, and relative to each individual. If someone only collects and paints GW models, then that's their hobby.

People get all bent out of shape when GW says "the GW hobby", and it's just a waste of energy. Doesn't change anything. People that 'play warhammer' won't suddenly wake up and say "OMG, no! It's 'I Wargame!' not 'I play Warhammer'. "

It's as silly as if someone on another board through a fit because you said "The Wargaming Hobby", and they consider it "Gaming".

Just a case of being more specific than general.