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Too..... many....... Opinions........ Must resist...................

But you cannot!

Void__Dragon wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:1. Horus
2. Vulkan, Leman Russ, Sanguinius
3. Magnus, Dorn, Khan, Lion, Perturabo
4. Corax, Guilliman, Angron, Alpharius/Omegon
5. Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Lorgar, Konrad, Mortarion

My list.
Horus is the undisputed champion.
Under that is like a Tier List
Vulkan and Russ being Top Tier
Lorgar and Ferrus being Low Tier

Your list is wrong.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:1. Horus
2. Vulkan, Leman Russ, Sanguinius
3. Magnus, Dorn, Khan, Lion, Perturabo
4. Corax, Guilliman, Angron, Alpharius/Omegon
5. Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Lorgar, Konrad, Mortarion

My list.
Horus is the undisputed champion.
Under that is like a Tier List
Vulkan and Russ being Top Tier
Lorgar and Ferrus being Low Tier

Your list is wrong.

My list is my list.
You can have yours.

Leonus Cohol wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:1. Horus
2. Vulkan, Leman Russ, Sanguinius
3. Magnus, Dorn, Khan, Lion, Perturabo
4. Corax, Guilliman, Angron, Alpharius/Omegon
5. Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Lorgar, Konrad, Mortarion

My list.
Horus is the undisputed champion.
Under that is like a Tier List
Vulkan and Russ being Top Tier
Lorgar and Ferrus being Low Tier

Your list is wrong.

My list is my list.
You can have yours.

Your list is still wrong, for example, why is Russ above Magnus and the Lion? Why is Angron ranked fourth? What makes the Khan able to take on Konrad Curze?

You people are aware that Konrad nearly killed both the Lion and Dorn right?

Soladrin wrote:You people are aware that Konrad nearly killed both the Lion and Dorn right?

Yes, it's like the film Chucky except the crazed serial killer is trapped in the body of a Primarch.

iproxtaco wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:1. Horus
2. Vulkan, Leman Russ, Sanguinius
3. Magnus, Dorn, Khan, Lion, Perturabo
4. Corax, Guilliman, Angron, Alpharius/Omegon
5. Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Lorgar, Konrad, Mortarion

My list.
Horus is the undisputed champion.
Under that is like a Tier List
Vulkan and Russ being Top Tier
Lorgar and Ferrus being Low Tier

Your list is wrong.

My list is my list.
You can have yours.

Your list is still wrong, for example, why is Russ above Magnus and the Lion? Why is Angron ranked fourth? What makes the Khan able to take on Konrad Curze?

This is my list as in my understanding of how badass they are. I don't know much about some Primarchs like Konrad and Ferrus, that's why they are pretty low. Feel to laugh at my ignorance.
1. I think Russ is more bloodthirsty a fighter.
2. Well, now that I know Angron was a total BAMF...
3. To be completely honest, I like Genghis Khan more and he could fight toe to toe with anybody.

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Horus himself said that Sanguinius should've been Warmaster, and not simply because Sanguinius possessed humility and empathy that Horus didn't.

Incidentally, Horus was never portrayed, prior to getting powered up by the Chaos gods, as the most badass combatant in the galaxy, or even one of the more noteworthy. He was a primarch, and therefore a wildly competent asskicker, but his real strength was his charisma and force of personality. Before his ascension, I think most of the combat-focused primarchs could've handled him without much issue.

Actually that's exactly why Horus thought Sanguinius should have been Warmaster.

Horus said otherwise.

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Horus himself said that Sanguinius should've been Warmaster, and not simply because Sanguinius possessed humility and empathy that Horus didn't.

Incidentally, Horus was never portrayed, prior to getting powered up by the Chaos gods, as the most badass combatant in the galaxy, or even one of the more noteworthy. He was a primarch, and therefore a wildly competent asskicker, but his real strength was his charisma and force of personality. Before his ascension, I think most of the combat-focused primarchs could've handled him without much issue.

Actually that's exactly why Horus thought Sanguinius should have been Warmaster.

Horus said otherwise.

When he left him all crumpled and dead?

CpatTom wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Horus himself said that Sanguinius should've been Warmaster, and not simply because Sanguinius possessed humility and empathy that Horus didn't.

Incidentally, Horus was never portrayed, prior to getting powered up by the Chaos gods, as the most badass combatant in the galaxy, or even one of the more noteworthy. He was a primarch, and therefore a wildly competent asskicker, but his real strength was his charisma and force of personality. Before his ascension, I think most of the combat-focused primarchs could've handled him without much issue.

Actually that's exactly why Horus thought Sanguinius should have been Warmaster.

Horus said otherwise.

When he left him all crumpled and dead?

No, when Horus was all crumpled and nearly dead and expounding on why Sanguinius should've been Warmaster instead of him.

Horus certainly became the most powerful once he became an Undivided daemon prince, no question about that.

Leonus Cohol wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:1. Horus
2. Vulkan, Leman Russ, Sanguinius
3. Magnus, Dorn, Khan, Lion, Perturabo
4. Corax, Guilliman, Angron, Alpharius/Omegon
5. Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Lorgar, Konrad, Mortarion

My list.
Horus is the undisputed champion.
Under that is like a Tier List
Vulkan and Russ being Top Tier
Lorgar and Ferrus being Low Tier

Your list is wrong.

My list is my list.
You can have yours.

Your list is still wrong, for example, why is Russ above Magnus and the Lion? Why is Angron ranked fourth? What makes the Khan able to take on Konrad Curze?

This is my list as in my understanding of how badass they are. I don't know much about some Primarchs like Konrad and Ferrus, that's why they are pretty low. Feel to laugh at my ignorance.
1. I think Russ is more bloodthirsty a fighter.
2. Well, now that I know Angron was a total BAMF...
3. To be completely honest, I like Genghis Khan more and he could fight toe to toe with anybody.

Russ is a savage, a brawler lacking finesse of any kind. He fought the Lion to a stand-still, that battle was probably like comparing a cage fighter to Nanquan expert. Then of course, he beat Mangus thanks to a huge helping of luck and the fact Magnus wasn't even concentrating on Russ.

Apparently, only Horus and possibly Sanguinus could have bested Angron. Corax says so in Deliverance Lost IIRC.

He's a warrior, but we have no idea what he's like. Probably a mix between Russ and the Lion. Russ's savage strength tempered by the Lion's skill.

Seaward wrote:

No, when Horus was all crumpled and nearly dead and expounding on why Sanguinius should've been Warmaster instead of him.

Horus certainly became the most powerful once he became an Undivided daemon prince, no question about that.

Horus was never a Daemon Prince.

iproxtaco wrote:
Horus was never a Daemon Prince.

That's arguable. He didn't get goat legs or horns, but he definitely got powered up by Chaos.

Seaward wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Horus was never a Daemon Prince.

That's arguable. He didn't get goat legs or horns, but he definitely got powered up by Chaos.

Powered yes, they granted Horus a measure of their power, but he remained of the material realm in order to lead his armies, the same reason why Abaddon is not a Daemon Prince.

Soladrin wrote:You people are aware that Konrad nearly killed both the Lion and Dorn right?

You are aware Lion was pretty much handing Konrad his ass to him before he managed to tackle and pin him down?

And the Lion was still resisting.

Seaward wrote:

CpatTom wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:Horus himself said that Sanguinius should've been Warmaster, and not simply because Sanguinius possessed humility and empathy that Horus didn't.

Incidentally, Horus was never portrayed, prior to getting powered up by the Chaos gods, as the most badass combatant in the galaxy, or even one of the more noteworthy. He was a primarch, and therefore a wildly competent asskicker, but his real strength was his charisma and force of personality. Before his ascension, I think most of the combat-focused primarchs could've handled him without much issue.

Actually that's exactly why Horus thought Sanguinius should have been Warmaster.

Horus said otherwise.

When he left him all crumpled and dead?

No, when Horus was all crumpled and nearly dead and expounding on why Sanguinius should've been Warmaster instead of him.

Horus certainly became the most powerful once he became an Undivided daemon prince, no question about that.

Except he was already the most powerful anyway. He might've had slightly more trouble killing Sanguinius before he was powerd up, but he still could've done it.

Iproxtaco i thought Russ beat Magnus one on one? i havn't read Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns, but as far as i knew Russ was able to resist Magnus Psychic abilities, and break his back over his knee, do you have quotes to say Magnus was distracted or wasn't totally concentrating on the fight?

Russ gained the advantage after accidentally poking Magnus in the eye or something.

The Son Of Russ wrote:Iproxtaco i thought Russ beat Magnus one on one? i havn't read Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns, but as far as i knew Russ was able to resist Magnus Psychic abilities, and break his back over his knee, do you have quotes to say Magnus was distracted or wasn't totally concentrating on the fight?

Basically, Magnus was concentrating on keeping the entire Space Wolves Legion, the Custodians, and the Sisters of Silence from attacking his sons while he and Russ fought, frying and killing many of them while fighting Russ. He was also keeping any of them from interfering in the fight by warding them off. He was also fighting Leman Russ' wolves whom Russ brought to triple-team Magnus. He was also tearing apart the surface of the planet Prospero while preparing a spell to transport the survivors of the Burning of Prospero into the Warp. He was also kicking Russ' ass for most of the fight, including doing such memorable things like punching his fist through Russ' heart. Russ then, and I quote, "flailed blindly," and scored a lucky hit on Magnus' one eye, the source of his psychic power, stunning and blinding him. Russ took advantage of this, and only then did he break his back.

I wouldn't say Russ is completely unskilled though, perhaps less refined than the Lion, but still a very capable fighter.

The Son Of Russ wrote:Iproxtaco i thought Russ beat Magnus one on one? i havn't read Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns, but as far as i knew Russ was able to resist Magnus Psychic abilities, and break his back over his knee, do you have quotes to say Magnus was distracted or wasn't totally concentrating on the fight?

They fought at the gates to Magnus's pyramid on Prospero. Fortunately for Russ, Magnus was concentrating on several other more important things whilst fighting his brother. First of all, he was preparing to teleport what remained of the city into the Warp. He was also tearing up the planet using his psychic powers, causing rents in the earth and an electrical storm. At the same time, he was blocking the rest of the Space Wolves, Custodians and Sisters of Silence from entering the pyramid. He formed a huge lake of boiling water between the two armies, frying any Wulfen that tried to cross it. Then of course he had Russ's two gigantic wolves to deal with, which he did. All this time he largely had the upper hand until, as Void_Dragon said, he flailed blindly with his sword after being blinded by a psychic attack, hitting Magnus's one and only weak-spot, his eye. Only then did Russ succeed in winning the battle.

To be fair to Russ it's debatable what psykic powers could have done to him in the first place. AFAIK, primarches are extremely resilient to their effects. Also, the book we're using for information is from the prospective of the Thousand Sons or at least has a pretty large thousand son bias. If you read some other fluff sources, they'll tell you Russ kicked the big guy in the eye, hoisted him up, the broken him like a twig across his knee.

There are no other fluff sources that tell a different story. This is what happened.
If we do follow your point though it would mean Russ was being beaten by Magnus even without his psychic powers.

iproxtaco wrote:There are no other fluff sources that tell a different story.

Well, that's not exactly true.

In Index Astartes, Russ blinded Magnus with a well-placed kick.

But Index Astartes is also no longer as credible a source in terms of this.

The Horus Heresy series has effectivelly overruled it.

As much as fluff can be overruled

I'm not a Russ fanboi at all just saying that the novels, each and everyone, carry a bias because of their point of view.

Russ

/thread

FinalAnswer wrote:

Soladrin wrote:You people are aware that Konrad nearly killed both the Lion and Dorn right?

You are aware Lion was pretty much handing Konrad his ass to him before he managed to tackle and pin him down?

And the Lion was still resisting.

Moot point, the Lion was losing and would most likely have been killed without intervention from captain backstab.

After reading Aurelian and the massive changes in capabilities Lorgar goes through hard not to pick him .
Spoiler alert

AustonT wrote:

Then again, I've recently read his fluff, and am hardcore fanboying over him as the only likeable Loyalist Primarch, if you exclude Vulkan and Sanguinius.

I lol-ed at this. Aramis is the only musketeer if you exclude Athos and Porthos. But I got what you were driving at. It's really no coincidence that the primarchs that could have made the Imperium a less grimdark organization died in the HH.

I know, it is a real shame, as I really liked those three, as they were inherently likeable, could settle agreements and defended people who could defend themselves. As a result, they are dead.
Sqallum

Mortarion is awesome im reading flight of the Einstein but I think horus is best

Absolon wrote:After reading Aurelian and the massive changes in capabilities Lorgar goes through hard not to pick him .
Spoiler alert

Spoiler:

He beats a demon possesed Fulgrim to within an inch of his life, takes control of Horus's body and makes him physically do something as Horus tries to resist and pretty mich scares Magnus because he is now the strongest psychic.