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Kilkrazy wrote:I don't think it will happen because I can't see an every day household use for a 3D printer.

Bacon and/or Cheese Sculptures.

Also meatloaf style... I would definately eat an Eldar carved from beef via my 3D printer.

Thats what they said about computers!!!

TCWarRoom wrote:If stores order their items direct from GW, they wont have delays. This is GW selling to the distributors. It will encourage stores to set up an account with GW. If you are already direct, it wont even matter.

I have been dealing with them for almost two years and I feel they are a great company. Great customer service, free shipping, prize support. What more can I ask for?

I'm across town from giga, and probably have the same GW rep. In my brief experience with them they have been the most on point manufacturer I have ever dealt with.

warboss wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Didn't forget Infinity. Tried to sell it, hasn't caught on in this area. Sold 0 blisters, books or sets in 2 months, back it went to the distributer. Not sure why.

It's nice that your distributor lets you do that. If you didn't sell something of GW's (like if for some odd reason you sold zero of your upcoming necron order hypothetically), would GW let you return the items for full credit?

If I couldn't sell any of the Necrons I ordered, it means I'm dead and they can just bury me surrounded by Ghost Arks and Command Barges.)

Wow so mass hate on the 3d printer. I've done lots of architectural work and I can tell you a decade ago any 11 by 17+ printer was thousands of dollars. You can pick one up for a couple hundred bucks now that literally prints at about 50 times the speed. The quality and speed of computer components double every 3 year and cost fractions of their predecessors. A decade ago there were tube TVs and wifi was almost non existent. Are you really unable to look at the world and see this technology will be readily available for cheap in a couple years? I'm a naval weapons tech, you should see the stuff thats out there. This WILL be a reality in a couple years. Whether you choose to embrace technology and its perks or get bent over by GW is up to you. Wifi was patented 14 years ago and started with wireless A with a 30 foot range and a 1mbit/s speed. The lowest end N model now is about a 300ft range and speeds exceeding 300 times the A. You can buy a C&C model machine now that can cut these models out with all the insane details they have. This will happen.

I don't think it will happen because I can't see an every day household use for a 3D printer.

Oh I dont know, maybe the hobby you spend thousands of dollars on might be a good enough reason? GW can charge 300 for a damn paintset and people buy it. You would say no to a 400 dollar machine that lets you print land raiders?

Hox wrote: GW can charge 300 for a damn paintset and people buy it. You would say no to a 400 dollar machine that lets you print land raiders?

I can hear the sound of people printing off GK armies...

Hox wrote:

I don't think it will happen because I can't see an every day household use for a 3D printer.

Oh I dont know, maybe the hobby you spend thousands of dollars on might be a good enough reason? GW can charge 300 for a damn paintset and people buy it. You would say no to a 400 dollar machine that lets you print land raiders?

3D printers of sufficient quality are $50K+. Between the time it takes to print and clean, and the cost of power and materials... its cheaper to produce a master and cast in resin. Even going by your generous estimate of improvement and cost decline, of halving the price every three years, it would take 18 years for machines of a sufficient quality to be cheap enough.

To be economically feasible with the printer alone you'd need a quality printer for less than $1000, and to produce 4 times that dollar value in miniatures to break even and even more to justify the capital investment. I have over $10k worth of miniatures, I don't think I'd need another $5k worth, and the people who'd benefit most... would be those just starting out... but if you thought the barrier to entry was bad with a $74 rulebook and needing $200 worth of rules... thats worse. On top of that all that cost analysis ignores the 3d model. Would the 3d model be free to print unlimitedly?-Or would it be one and done?-Its GW, 20 years from now, if they even offered it they'd charge $120 for the right to print the model once.

aka_mythos wrote:

Hox wrote:

I don't think it will happen because I can't see an every day household use for a 3D printer.

Oh I dont know, maybe the hobby you spend thousands of dollars on might be a good enough reason? GW can charge 300 for a damn paintset and people buy it. You would say no to a 400 dollar machine that lets you print land raiders?

3D printers of sufficient quality are $50K+. Between the time it takes to print and clean, and the cost of power and materials... its cheaper to produce a master and cast in resin. Even going by your generous estimate of improvement and cost decline, of halving the price every three years, it would take 18 years for machines of a sufficient quality to be cheap enough.

To be economically feasible with the printer alone you'd need a quality printer for less than $1000, and to produce 4 times that dollar value in miniatures to break even and even more to justify the capital investment. I have over $10k worth of miniatures, I don't think I'd need another $5k worth, and the people who'd benefit most... would be those just starting out... but if you thought the barrier to entry was bad with a $74 rulebook and needing $200 worth of rules... thats worse. On top of that all that cost analysis ignores the 3d model. Would the 3d model be free to print unlimitedly?-Or would it be one and done?-Its GW, 20 years from now, if they even offered it they'd charge $120 for the right to print the model once.

I dont think you understand. I'm not sure of your age but if you've been around for any amount of time you see how fast things move. A couple years ago, 3d meant looking like an idiot in red and blue glasses. A couple years ago movies were rented in stores. A couple years ago a hundred gig hard drive went for 200 dollars. I work on electronics every day. Once again I move back to the drafting printer. What you used to pay top dollar for in a print shop is now doable at home. 3D printing is an enormous market whether people will accept it or not and where theres a market, technology moves obscenely fast. Most computers are outdated before they hit store shelves. With small companies like MakerBot bringing more and more advanced units. They have been around for under a couple years I would think, I've seen them on tons of TV shows (News/colbert report). They just released a new printing head that is 6 times faster and is more accurate than the old one and they released queuing software to print multiple things automatically. Like you, many people have spent 10s of thousands on models. What if every GW update from now on could be yours for the cost of plastic? How about forgeworld models too. For a thousand dollars your hobby can be continued on indefinately. What about the ability for anyone with 3D skills to create new amazing looking units for your fav army and sharing them? 3D printing will explode as a market solely on the engineering and architectural aspects of being able to create your CAD drawing for some idiot customer whos unable to understand clear pictures (God damn theres alot of them). Its inevitable. Sorry on the long post.

Edit: And no they would be pirated 3D scans (which you can take to a company with a 3d scanner and get done for fairly cheap).

Hox wrote:
Like you, many people have spent 10s of thousands on models. What if every GW update from now on could be yours for the cost of plastic? How about forgeworld models too. For a thousand dollars your hobby can be continued on indefinately. What about the ability for anyone with 3D skills to create new amazing looking units for your fav army and sharing them? 3D printing will explode as a market solely on the engineering and architectural aspects of being able to create your CAD drawing for some idiot customer whos unable to understand clear pictures (God damn theres alot of them). Its inevitable. Sorry on the long post.

Edit: And no they would be pirated 3D scans (which you can take to a company with a 3d scanner and get done for fairly cheap).

First, do you sincerely believe GW, the totalitarian hand that grips tightly about this hobby would ever let its IP be free; where your only cost on a model is your own plastic?-Oh HELLS no! Without restirctions on the file that digital model is worth more than a 1000 plastic models out of its factory.

I understand what you're saying, I'm an engineer and I use 3D printers in my job and for my hobby (see sig), but my point was even at $1000 for a printer its not necessarily economically feasible and without other significant improvements its incovenient and more hastle than buying sprues. Even at $1000 it may in fact be cheaper to just buy the miniatures from someone else who specializes and prints. To put it another way... 2D printers unless you use it alot between ink, the printer itself, and paper you've spent $40-$70 and would have to print 1000 pages to justify buying as opposed to going to a Kinkos and paying $0.40 a page + cost of time and driving... by the time you get past four-hundred pages you need another ink cartridge that bumps up your total investment by $30+... and you now have to print 600+800 pages to break even. Simply put unless its like an office setting where the need for a printer is driven by necessity its an unjustfied up front cost. Desktop printers are only sellable because the overall cost is low enough people don't realize its a bad deal moneywise, that its really just a convenience. 3D printers unless you have a way to monetize what you produce is high cost, a bad deal moneywise, and are still inconvenient.

It'd be an awesome toy and tool to have at home, but its unreasonable for little Timmy to decide he wants to play 40k, and make him go out and buy $1000 worth of machinary and 50lb bags of plastic... enter the 3D models into the machine... wait 6 hours... spend an hour cleaning up the printed model and then finally get to the same point he would have been at had he just bought a modern GW kit off the shelf. Maybe GW could evolve to a "build-a-bear" type business model and support such a concept, but as you've described it they have nothing to gain and the consumer would have to make large up front capital investments with no real guarantee of breaking even.

Even if what you predict came true Hox, there might be a few gamers with the nous to set this up but most would still go to the store and buy stuff. Who would bother with printing acunit of 20 orcs?

Like anyone I make a burger at home anytime I like, I can't see McD's folding any time soon.

notprop wrote:Even if what you predict came true Hox, there might be a few gamers with the nous to set this up but most would still go to the store and buy stuff. Who would bother with printing acunit of 20 orcs?

Like anyone I make a burger at home anytime I like, I can't see McD's folding any time soon.

haha True! You can print a encyclopedia but I would rather buy one and put it on my library shelf

notprop wrote:Even if what you predict came true Hox, there might be a few gamers with the nous to set this up but most would still go to the store and buy stuff. Who would bother with printing acunit of 20 orcs?

Like anyone I make a burger at home anytime I like, I can't see McD's folding any time soon.

That is 100% true man. On the other hand, 5 burgers aren't 55 bucks. I'm looking at you flayed ones, you pieces of.... Anyways yeah you can, some chumps buy a thousand dollar barbeque with all the bells and whistles is its something they enjoy. If the printing tray is 10" by 10", conceivably you could print 25 guys at once. And as I just said, a company started 2 years ago just replaced their printing head with one 6 times faster and these guys look like they are working out of a condemned building (on youtube). There will always be people who buy stuff in store. I would easily drop 100 bucks on a hardcover book (I have a thing for knowledge and books) even though I could easily get a PDF online. What I wont do though is continue to accept 15% price hikes every year. Assuming the new flayed ones cost 30 cents in resin which is a plausible estimate, there is a 3300% markup on them. I look at other hobbies, model cars for 20 bucks, action figures like hot toys for 100 (which are hand assembled and painted with obscene quality and amazing packaging. I see other wargaming like privateer press where games are easily played with 100 dollars worth of stuff. I can buy a videogame like the upcoming skyrim which is thousands of hours to complete for 70 bucks. If you want to charge me 55 bucks for 2 dollars in resin go to town. To charge top dollar for unassembled, unpainted, misshapen sprues and massacred Finecast sets is unacceptable. I bought a stegadon a could weeks ago and assembled it flawlessly. The damn thing still has visible gaps. Dont get me wrong I love to build them, its my favorite part. The price has to reflect the product and it just doesn't. If it becomes feasible I would go in with some buddies, a couple hundred bucks each and share it. BYOPlastic.

Speaking of encyclopedias I was trying to buy the Britannica a little while back but it runs 1400 bucks. Was quite sad.

Hox wrote:Wow so mass hate on the 3d printer.

Yes, because people bring the subject up so much, and people are tired of it. When someone starts printing out miniatures I'd want to paint for less than 50.00 each, come back and tell us.)

mikhaila wrote:

Hox wrote:Wow so mass hate on the 3d printer.

Yes, because people bring the subject up so much, and people are tired of it. When someone starts printing out miniatures I'd want to paint for less than 50.00 each, come back and tell us.)

Thanks for that bit. Been on the website for 12 days. Thanks for you know, saying something about the fact that its been discussed and not just being super rude. You are all telling someone who builds and fixes sophisticated missile systems and chaff/infrared launchers that the technology just isn't there and wont be for a long time. I know what exists right now. I know that this is 100% doable with current tech. I don't want to seem like a condescending dick but this forum is 90% people who come into threads to bitch and moan, not actually share opinions or say anything but "you're wrong". Some are up for intelligent conversation (Looking at you mythos), but seriously who complains about an internet post. Fun fact, it may be the same subject but there are many more alleys and related ideas to discuss. I now know why people hate these forums. I'm out.

It'd be an awesome toy and tool to have at home, but its unreasonable for little Timmy to decide he wants to play 40k, and make him go out and buy $1000 worth of machinary and 50lb bags of plastic... enter the 3D models into the machine... wait 6 hours... spend an hour cleaning up the printed model and then finally get to the same point he would have been at had he just bought a modern GW kit off the shelf. Maybe GW could evolve to a "build-a-bear" type business model and support such a concept, but as you've described it they have nothing to gain and the consumer would have to make large up front capital investments with no real guarantee of breaking even.

Who said anything about a little kid? If his parents want to fork cash by the buckets to GW go right ahead. I live off a military salary. If I could get my hands on plans for one of these, I could build the thing myself. Thats not for everyone but it sure is for me. The people I play with have come to an agreement that if we get one we could all use it. This is NOT for GW to gain. I'm talking about pirated 3D models. I can go DL every bit of literature GW has ever put out on the internet with just a google search. If you guys want to pay full price, hey thats your thing. When I bought my first warhammer 40k set, (necron warriors about 6 years ago) the prices were high, but not unreasonable. I dont have cash to throw at GW anymore.

I've got to agree with Hox - ten to twenty years?

We're already looking at projects like RepRap, a 3D printer that can print a copy of itself. These projects have gone from nothing a few years ago to pretty damn amazing now. It's not just that, the pace has quickened. The number of uses for 3D printing is staggering.

That said, I don't (currently) see much of a home market for them. I'd love to own one both for wargaming stuff and for engineering. Being able to print custom fitted things is a gods send.

Perhaps it might be a bit much to expect mass ownership of such devices in the wargaming community but it's the sort of thing I'd imagine folks saying "Oh yeah, my mate's got one of those; he'd probably print something for you if I asked him".

I'm watching the use of 3D printing in the creation of new models at the moment. MaxMini is designing quite a bit in 3D and then printing and casting, the amount of detail is beautiful.

Fox Box wrote:I've got to agree with Hox - ten to twenty years?

We're already looking at projects like RepRap, a 3D printer that can print a copy of itself. These projects have gone from nothing a few years ago to pretty damn amazing now. It's not just that, the pace has quickened. The number of uses for 3D printing is staggering.

That said, I don't (currently) see much of a home market for them. I'd love to own one both for wargaming stuff and for engineering. Being able to print custom fitted things is a gods send.

Perhaps it might be a bit much to expect mass ownership of such devices in the wargaming community but it's the sort of thing I'd imagine folks saying "Oh yeah, my mate's got one of those; he'd probably print something for you if I asked him".

I'm watching the use of 3D printing in the creation of new models at the moment. MaxMini is designing quite a bit in 3D and then printing and casting, the amount of detail is beautiful.

Exactly. Not common but to have one would be extremely helpful. To be able to build plastic mounts that custom fit to boards would be awesome. I checked out the RepRap and its neat. The MakerBot is a cleaner package with a little higher quality (reflected in the price) and its probably what Ill be keeping an eye on. The fact that maybe 3 or 4 years ago 3D printing wasnt even a thing most people knew existed and has become sub 1000 dollar DIY machines in a matter of years is a clear sign of the technological advances.




This kit will be released early next year

I'm glad PP has been doing their best to increase production, because nothing that GW has done suggests that they are going to stop bleeding away their gamer base to other companies.

Hox wrote:

I'm talking about pirated 3D models. I can go DL every bit of literature GW has ever put out on the internet with just a google search. If you guys want to pay full price, hey thats your thing. When I bought my first warhammer 40k set, (necron warriors about 6 years ago) the prices were high, but not unreasonable. I dont have cash to throw at GW anymore.

So why not become a thief then, right? If you can't afford something it's totally within your rights to steal it. Why wait for a 3d printer? You could just go shoplift from your LGS right now!

sourclams wrote: I'm glad PP has been doing their best to increase production

Have they been doing their best? Because I've been aware of their issues for about a year now and my LGS still can't get in lots of models in anything close to a timely manner through any of it's distributors.

plastictrees wrote:

Hox wrote:

I'm talking about pirated 3D models. I can go DL every bit of literature GW has ever put out on the internet with just a google search. If you guys want to pay full price, hey thats your thing. When I bought my first warhammer 40k set, (necron warriors about 6 years ago) the prices were high, but not unreasonable. I dont have cash to throw at GW anymore.

So why not become a thief then, right? If you can't afford something it's totally within your rights to steal it. Why wait for a 3d printer? You could just go shoplift from your LGS right now!

sourclams wrote: I'm glad PP has been doing their best to increase production

Have they been doing their best? Because I've been aware of their issues for about a year now and my LGS still can't get in lots of models in anything close to a timely manner through any of it's distributors.

Piracy is a legal grey area. In essence I am not stealing anything from GW. I am replicating models for personal use. Just like if you purchase a CD you are allowed to make copies of it. If I chose to do this, GW would lose no business from me. If the prices stay how they are, I will give up warhammer. In essence, if I got the printer I would be more likely to buy models to replicate and buy codexes.This debate is an endless one. Have you ever downloaded a song? A movie? Watched a copyrighted adult movie online? You have broken the law. Why dont you go murder a child because every crime is clearly the same to you.

Hox wrote:Piracy is a legal grey area. In essence I am not stealing anything from GW. I am replicating models for personal use.

Very true and things get confusing when we get into whether it's piracy or counterfeiting.

Hox wrote: Just like if you purchase a CD you are allowed to make copies of it.

Ah, now that's where you're on shaky ground. Here in the UK current legislation (not enforced, but on the books) stipulates that one isn't even allowed to "rip" a CD (make a digital copy of the tracks), let alone make copies, regardless of intended usage.

We're going to have to see how things pan out, particularly with regards to international anti counterfeiting things (I think ACTA would come into play), piracy, that sort of thing.

Personally I'd be tempted to properly learn 3D modelling to make my own parts at last.

Considering I walked into at least 2 stores in the NE US that were quietly selling GK before their release date to their friends and regular customers? No, I'm not surprised in the slightest that GW is taking this step. Does it suck? Yes. I'm not sure I blame them though... those two I saw can't have been the only ones doing it.

Fox Box wrote:

Hox wrote:Piracy is a legal grey area. In essence I am not stealing anything from GW. I am replicating models for personal use.

Very true and things get confusing when we get into whether it's piracy or counterfeiting.

Hox wrote: Just like if you purchase a CD you are allowed to make copies of it.

Ah, now that's where you're on shaky ground. Here in the UK current legislation (not enforced, but on the books) stipulates that one isn't even allowed to "rip" a CD (make a digital copy of the tracks), let alone make copies, regardless of intended usage.

We're going to have to see how things pan out, particularly with regards to international anti counterfeiting things (I think ACTA would come into play), piracy, that sort of thing.

Personally I'd be tempted to properly learn 3D modelling to make my own parts at last.

The UK does tend to have stricter laws then the new frontier (Canada!). I think if you pulled some like chapterhouse shenanigans like "Oh they look nearly identical but this one has a tiny little emblem right there and they aren't space marines, they are clearly "cosmic rangers". Are you sure on that rip law? Because I wouldn't see how itunes would work when the MP3 files it uses are all out in the open and easily burn-able. As for the legal ramifications, dont parade through your local GW with your printer and all will be good. As for playing at home for all your friends care you could proxy green plastic army men in for anything in any codex. I more love to paint and build than anything else. This feeds my addiction.

Hox wrote:Piracy is a legal grey area. In essence I am not stealing anything from GW. I am replicating models for personal use. Just like if you purchase a CD you are allowed to make copies of it. If I chose to do this, GW would lose no business from me. If the prices stay how they are, I will give up warhammer. In essence, if I got the printer I would be more likely to buy models to replicate and buy codexes.This debate is an endless one. Have you ever downloaded a song? A movie? Watched a copyrighted adult movie online? You have broken the law. Why dont you go murder a child because every crime is clearly the same to you.

No, it's not a grey area (in the US, the UK, or Canada). No, you aren't stealing; you'd be committing copyright infringement, which is punishable by criminal and civil action even in the wild frontiers of Canada. And no, it's nothing like ripping a CD - format shifting (approved by the courts in the US, somewhat more tenuous in the various Commonwealth countries) is not the same as making counterfeit copies of toy soldiers.

<and tone down the hyperbole, please - it's inflammatory and can only serve to derail the conversation>

Hox wrote:Are you sure on that rip law? Because I wouldn't see how itunes would work when the MP3 files it uses are all out in the open and easily burn-able.

I'm fairly sure, yes. I keep up with UK IP law as best I can as it's an area of considerable interest to me, both personally and in the projects I work on.
I don't really see how iTunes factors in though - it's easy to take something from a friend's house when they're not looking, the ease of doing it doesn't factor into the legality.

The current state of the laws is a bit complex, particularly with things such as the Digital Economy Act which may or may not change things. Certain parts are being repealed, amended, or otherwise tinkered with. Then there's EU law, etc. etc..

Whether one chooses obey the law or not is the question, really. Piracy is not theft, it's copyright infringement. With some things one could attempt to make a case for theft of services, however. It's rather grey, as you say!

Janthkin wrote:

Hox wrote:Piracy is a legal grey area. In essence I am not stealing anything from GW. I am replicating models for personal use. Just like if you purchase a CD you are allowed to make copies of it. If I chose to do this, GW would lose no business from me. If the prices stay how they are, I will give up warhammer. In essence, if I got the printer I would be more likely to buy models to replicate and buy codexes.This debate is an endless one. Have you ever downloaded a song? A movie? Watched a copyrighted adult movie online? You have broken the law. Why dont you go murder a child because every crime is clearly the same to you.

No, it's not a grey area (in the US, the UK, or Canada). No, you aren't stealing; you'd be committing copyright infringement, which is punishable by criminal and civil action even in the wild frontiers of Canada. And no, it's nothing like ripping a CD - format shifting (approved by the courts in the US, somewhat more tenuous in the various Commonwealth countries) is not the same as making counterfeit copies of toy soldiers.

<and tone down the hyperbole, please - it's inflammatory and can only serve to derail the conversation>

So you are telling me that I cant make modified GW products like half the wargaming companies out there do? If I alter them they become my creation. A company can modify an existing product from another company and release it as their own. As long as its different enough (allowing me to make even cooler models) they have nothing on me. Im using my 3D model I procured on my 3D printer I bought using my plastic I also bought. If GW has the balls to take me to court for something like that Ill gladly sit in and make money in damages. They are for personal use and not sale. They are solely my own. There are literally a million ways to legally do this yet everyone has to pick things apart out of what I assume is boredom?

Hox wrote:So you are telling me that I cant make modified GW products like half the wargaming companies out there do? If I alter them they become my creation. A company can modify an existing product from another company and release it as their own. As long as its different enough (allowing me to make even cooler models) they have nothing on me. Im using my 3D model I procured on my 3D printer I bought using my plastic I also bought. If GW has the balls to take me to court for something like that Ill gladly sit in and make money in damages.

I'm not telling you anything of the sort; I don't give legal advice on internet forums.

But that's not the situation you presented - there was no talk of modifying (which opens up the discussion of what is and is not a derivative work).

Hox wrote:Edit: And no they would be pirated 3D scans (which you can take to a company with a 3d scanner and get done for fairly cheap).

Janthkin wrote:

Hox wrote:So you are telling me that I cant make modified GW products like half the wargaming companies out there do? If I alter them they become my creation. A company can modify an existing product from another company and release it as their own. As long as its different enough (allowing me to make even cooler models) they have nothing on me. Im using my 3D model I procured on my 3D printer I bought using my plastic I also bought. If GW has the balls to take me to court for something like that Ill gladly sit in and make money in damages.

I'm not telling you anything of the sort; I don't give legal advice on internet forums.

But that's not the situation you presented - there was no talk of modifying (which opens up the discussion of what is and is not a derivative work).

Hox wrote:Edit: And no they would be pirated 3D scans (which you can take to a company with a 3d scanner and get done for fairly cheap).

I guess thats fair. I apologize for not being clearer. It would be done in a more acceptable way and I would not tape the words GAMES WORKSHOP to everything. That would be interesting to go to court with GW. The armed forces provide top of the line lawyers for any legal issues we incur. That would be fun to see GW vs. Armed forces on the topic of counterfeit toy soldiers.

Hox here is something you might like:

http://www.desktopfactory.com/our_product/

I know my GW purchases excede 1000, and if you had a group go in on something like this it would be a great deal.


Sorry I didn't look at the size limit

It would make most all rank and file units though and all but the largest tank parts.

Of course the army would probably not be too keen on frivolous legal case because of your own commercial activities I'm guessing.

Still a second trip down Dakka cliche street would tend to indicate we are way off topic me thinks.

JudgeShamgar wrote:Hox here is something you might like:

http://www.desktopfactory.com/our_product/

I know my GW purchases excede 1000, and if you had a group go in on something like this it would be a great deal.


Sorry I didn't look at the size limit

It would make most all rank and file units though and all but the largest tank parts.

I'm probably just blind but I can't find a price anywhere. And yeah, tons of people have blown thousands on these only to have models go out of date or get nerfed (Like destroyers just were). Its a sad day when you watch 500 in figures become obsolete. Im really interested in that vid I posted higher on the page. it looks like as it draws the platform up through the liquid plastic it exposes it to light, instantly hardening and making what seems to be a very high detail model.

Of course the army would probably not be too keen on frivolous legal case because of your own commercial activities I'm guessing.

Still a second trip down Dakka cliche street would tend to indicate we are way off topic me thinks.

Navy* and if they will give lawyers to someone who breaks a guys face at a bar, I think I'll be fine. Is slightly off topic though. Feel free to go back to denouncing GW for other stupid things they have done wrong.