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BrassScorpion wrote:Return to the "bad old days". In the 1990's GW had a terrible reputation with independent sellers and distributors. They've worked hard the past 10 years to rehabilitate that image. Sounds like they forgot everything they've learned and worked for to go back to policies that alienate a lot of customers and sellers.

As Insaniak says, this is completely in line with the company's previous policies over the last 12 months, so I don't know why anyone is surprised by it.

I don't think there is any argument to be made at all that this is anything other than a bad thing for the customer, who will now have slightly less options on release day. The only thing in its defence (in that it won't probably matter that much) is that a lot of casual customers probably won't even know a release is coming at all, and so by the time they realise it will most likely be in the other independents and available at the lower price range!

But, in the context of customer-service related gaffs in 2011, an analogy of this would be a soft slap round the side of the head, compared to the repeated shoeings we received earlier this year.

I think this is more absurd to those of us that don't live anywhere near a GW store, but really, are we going to die if we have to wait a couple of weeks to get the new models? At least it gives you time to let the local know that you want them to order some of the new kits for you, since you didn't even know the freaking things existed aside from a few leaked pictures on the internet.

Surprised? God no, that just makes it about 100 times worse. That such plain idiotic moves are actually expected from an international company like GW is mindbogglingly stupid.

Munga wrote:I think this is more absurd to those of us that don't live anywhere near a GW store, but really, are we going to die if we have to wait a couple of weeks to get the new models? At least it gives you time to let the local know that you want them to order some of the new kits for you, since you didn't even know the freaking things existed aside from a few leaked pictures on the internet.

You are aware that just because you do not live near a GW store does not necessarily mean that you will not be able to get things on release day, right?

This only affects shops which are not using Games Workshop as their distributor. They have to wait for their distributor to get things in stock.
WARNING: SPECULATION AHEAD:

In all likelihood, from the way this reads it is that GW is not going to start supplying or taking orders from independent distributors until the street date.

This really doesn't affect me at all as my only local store option is a GW store and even if I chose to order from someone like The Warstore, I'm probably not going to jump on something at release.

I have plenty of stuff to work on. I'm not even bothering with Necrons. At all. Probably ever. And I like those models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:So in the interest of discussing this further. How would you handle this situation?

With fire!!!

HERE HERE!

This is not just a GW problem it's an issue we have with how Boards and CEO's are compensated. The only thing they care about is the stock price in the next quarter not the long term solvency of the company since they will just sell there shares and make there money that way. I ton of companies do this and it sucks.

GW really thinks that if we know what is coming out we wont buy something that month leading up to it and that may damage sales for that quarter lowering the stock price.

I think this is a gross misjudgement on the customer base. If you play 40k and own say 2 armies and they are mostly fleshed out you will only buy a mini here or there or buy some paint. You will just show up to a GW to play that's it.

If you know ahead of time that a new army is coming out that you want to start are you really not going to buy that model for the new list you want to run? We all know the answer to that and it's no. You are going to buy that mini because you still have to wait a month to get the other stuff and then you have to build and paint it.

I think they are really wrong about this and so do most other companies in the industry because most of them don't do what GW is doing.

Ah, throw in a few "stock shortages" on new releases for retailers "but check the GW stores!!!".

Not sure why they have such a hate-on for their "partners" these days, guess they figure they are getting too big a piece of the pie (Mmmm pie...)

They want to be smart about all this? Get small warehouses, set aside large gaming areas, run out of the place as an internet distribution center that happens to sell product on site as well. Get <insert popular coffee shop here> to attach to the facility and have free wireless internet available. You have built in room for expansion or failing that open up more "gaming space". You will even have a loading dock so there is room for those Apocalypse tables!!!

I used to be in the biz when GW first went direct. GW treated stores and distributors the same, at the same time they stopped posting release schedules months out in advance. I think this was in 95 or so. The reason behind not posting release schedules was so stores didn't plan around releases (so I was told by the sales rep). Minimum orders were $250 or $500 and that could make it hard on a small store to order $500 a week. The other down side was customer reps would call their best customers first and sometimes your order would not go out same day if you were too far down the list.

Now much like before if a distributor has to order and have it shipped, received, inventory, repack and ship again valuable days will be lost. If a store orders directly they will have the product sooner.

Let’s look at monies. As I mentioned stores can get product sooner through GeeDub and most will if they can meet the minimum order. If GW gives everyone 45% off retail as opposed to giving a better discount to distributors they will make more by driving traffic to themselves. Also they will gain valuable market research as to where to open new stores.

And this matters why? Indies still get it at the same time, like they are meant to.


And in all honesty, what Indy in their right mind would go through a distributor to get GW product at a lower profit margin when they can just go direct to GW. If the start up cost was too much, you have bigger problems.

Platuan4th wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Distributors sell to independent sellers. If they get the product on the street date that means they cannot get it to retailers till after the street date.

Distributors need to have it before the street date in order for them to have it to the retailers they service on the street date. Otherwise, independents aren't able to be competitive on street date.

Bingo.

This is an attempt to get those stores who use other distributors than GW for GW products to come back to them, pure and simple.

And from what I hear, GW is hell to use as a distributor.

Just my opinion, but you are hearing wrong. I've placed orders on Mondays and Wednesdays with GW for a couple of decades. I get product into my store like clockwork at the end of the week. I get my 150.00 a month in free product for tournaments just by asking, free racks just by asking. Can special order anything they have on their website with one email. I never pay shipping charges. They are actually very easy to deal with.

The problem for some stores is one of volume. If they carry the bare minimum, and don't take advantage of the stockist program, then they are going to pay shipping, and not get the support other retailers do. It's sort of silly to complain about, because it's how the industry works. If you don't jump through all of WOTC's hoops you don't get to run events. If you don't order 400-500 each order from distributors, you pay shipping. Stores that order a little bit pay more than stores with high volume. These are standard business practices.
But somehow they aren't acceptable coming from GW, but are coming from Alliance, ACD, WOTC, and other distributors.

On the original topic: Not in favor of the policy, although it doesn't affect me one damn bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

Munga wrote:I think this is more absurd to those of us that don't live anywhere near a GW store, but really, are we going to die if we have to wait a couple of weeks to get the new models? At least it gives you time to let the local know that you want them to order some of the new kits for you, since you didn't even know the freaking things existed aside from a few leaked pictures on the internet.

You are aware that just because you do not live near a GW store does not necessarily mean that you will not be able to get things on release day, right?

This only affects shops which are not using Games Workshop as their distributor. They have to wait for their distributor to get things in stock.
WARNING: SPECULATION AHEAD:

In all likelihood, from the way this reads it is that GW is not going to start supplying or taking orders from independent distributors until the street date.

Not quite. ACD or Alliance will place their orders on Monday, same time as I do, and recieve them by Friday, same as I do. The difference being my customers will get access to the product that weekend, and someone ordering through a distributor won't get their product until Mon/Tue/Wed of the following week.

mikhaila wrote:

Just my opinion, but you are hearing wrong. I've placed orders on Mondays and Wednesdays with GW for a couple of decades. I get product into my store like clockwork at the end of the week. I get my 150.00 a month in free product for tournaments just by asking, free racks just by asking. Can special order anything they have on their website with one email. I never pay shipping charges. They are actually very easy to deal with.

The problem for some stores is one of volume. If they carry the bare minimum, and don't take advantage of the stockist program, then they are going to pay shipping, and not get the support other retailers do. It's sort of silly to complain about, because it's how the industry works. If you don't jump through all of WOTC's hoops you don't get to run events. If you don't order 400-500 each order from distributors, you pay shipping. Stores that order a little bit pay more than stores with high volume. These are standard business practices.
But somehow they aren't acceptable coming from GW, but are coming from Alliance, ACD, WOTC, and other distributors.

On the original topic: Not in favor of the policy, although it doesn't affect me one damn bit.

This, here.

Of all the companies at I deal with, GW is the EASIEST and most PLEASANT to deal with. WoTC is a nightmare, and my distributors all have stipulations that can be annoying. As Mikhaila said, you need to take advantage of what they offer youm awesome price support, great customer service, and the partnership program is quite good

If stores order their items direct from GW, they wont have delays. This is GW selling to the distributors. It will encourage stores to set up an account with GW. If you are already direct, it wont even matter.

I have been dealing with them for almost two years and I feel they are a great company. Great customer service, free shipping, prize support. What more can I ask for?

ironicsilence wrote:Wont be long before FLGS get new releases a week or two after the GW stores start selling them

Nope. Vertically integrated company, makes them a bit vulnerable to treating direct accounts that badly. But mostly, it would lose GW money. Trade Sales, in the US at least, is quite profitable. Killing off their US market wouldn't help them in any way.

Would some one explain to me why GW is not releasing advance info on their advance releases?

I don't understand what GW is worried about.

Is GW worried that a codex will leak a couple of months in advance, and a company like Chapter House will read it and figure out what models GW isn't releasing in the same wave as the codex and a 3rd party will make those models or bitz?

Is GW worried that PP or FoW will copy them?

Or does GW think that if I buy $115 of Dread Fleet I won't spend $115 on Necrons?

Kanluwen wrote:You're somehow surprised about this, given that European independent game shops, specifically in Poland, pretty much spoiled three separate releases this year?

I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner, frankly.

And the proof is where that Distributors are the ones that spoiled the release?

mikhaila wrote:Just my opinion, but you are hearing wrong. I've placed orders on Mondays and Wednesdays with GW for a couple of decades. I get product into my store like clockwork at the end of the week. I get my 150.00 a month in free product for tournaments just by asking, free racks just by asking. Can special order anything they have on their website with one email. I never pay shipping charges. They are actually very easy to deal with.

Aren't you lucky. You could be Maelstrom Games, a massive store that's a stone's throw away from GW HQ, yet is only allowed to order restock's once a week, has things delayed and held back, and generally has to jump through several hoops just to get new stock. And they're both in Nottingham!!!

WarOne wrote:In a nutshell:

I am upset that GW does not meet my high expectations again.

Like a good little mind controlled slave though, I will return to buy their product.

Janthkin wrote:Personally, I don't think my response would have changed - I find teasers uniformly annoying, and have ever since Lucas destroyed the Star Wars brand. In this context, and paired with the current silence policy, I can fully understand people's frustrations with teasers - it doesn't come off as "we're building buzz," it comes off as "we could tell you, but we're not going to."

Same. There's a product I'm waiting for from another company that hasn't been "spoiled" at all, and I still find it annoying when they play coy about it.

Do you know what happens when GW's policy is successful?
The Nids and Beasts releases.
"Hu? What? There is a new book? And new models? I didn't notice that." Honestly, without the outcries and whine of the Nid players, that release could have gone unnoticed for months.

And looking at GK, Orcs and Tomb Kings... the "buzz" was nonexistant.

At this point, there are only two possibilities:
The guys they hired for making the PR and advertisments are completely incompetent.
or
The guys in charge are completely incompetent, making the job for the PR guys nigh impossible.

I know what's more likely...

Anyway, this decision was made to herd more people into their own stures.
Ineffectively. Now I have the choice between
-Getting it possibly on relase day, paying full price
-Getting it later, with a small discount and the knowledge that I supported an Indie
-Getting it later with a huge discount


I'll take the huge discount, thank you. They act as if they don't need independants and try to exterminate a pest, but in fact they just keep chopping at their own legs...

MDizzle wrote:This is not just a GW problem it's an issue we have with how Boards and CEO's are compensated. The only thing they care about is the stock price in the next quarter not the long term solvency of the company since they will just sell there shares and make there money that way. I ton of companies do this and it sucks.

GW really thinks that if we know what is coming out we wont buy something that month leading up to it and that may damage sales for that quarter lowering the stock price.

I think this is a gross misjudgement on the customer base. If you play 40k and own say 2 armies and they are mostly fleshed out you will only buy a mini here or there or buy some paint. You will just show up to a GW to play that's it.

If you know ahead of time that a new army is coming out that you want to start are you really not going to buy that model for the new list you want to run? We all know the answer to that and it's no. You are going to buy that mini because you still have to wait a month to get the other stuff and then you have to build and paint it.

I think they are really wrong about this and so do most other companies in the industry because most of them don't do what GW is doing.

Or look at it another way, it gives people time to save a bit and make that quarter stupidly profitable. Starting to save for any new eldar releases now for example is a thought I have had, breaking my "Don't care about buying more GW" stuff rule. Of course, this would not be at full retail price, and if discoubnted prices in 2012 are the retail prices this year GW have priced e out totally and mantic can have my custom.

The problem is, that they don't believe in saving, since they don't believe in retaining customers. By the time a spoilered release runs around, most of their target customers are already gone...

I am fully behind this move and other Games Workshop has made this year.

There is a lot up in the air with this thread. I think the main thing driving the Secrecy of GW releases is that you will find customers who will hear something is coming out and stop spending, sometimes for months, but will continue to come into my store and use my tables, use my time but not support my store until that release. Since the change in information I find that customers spend continuously and do not really worry about what is coming out next.

Next every well run store should be able to meet any requirement set to order from GW directly. GW's own stores with one employee will make anywhere from 150k to 250k a year on their own products alone every year. It just requires that you take the time to recruit new players and keep your customer base from becoming a club house. Now add in products like Magic, Warmachine, Hordes, flames of wars and etc. You should be able to grow in the correct direction. But in the end stores that can't make GW products work just don't know how to sell it or are unwilling to do what needs to be done.

Things that hurt independents more is discount retailers. The rely on volume because if you look at the basic accounting fundamentals a store down the street discounts product 20% has to sell 40% more to equal what I sell. Remember the saying work smarter not harder.

If you can not afford GW product maybe you should find a different hobby and quit wasting your energy complaining. That or you really think War Machine is cheaper..because I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

I am fully behind this move and other Games Workshop has made this year.

Me too. ( well as in an understanding kind of way, but certainly dislike it from customer point of view )

There is a lot up in the air with this thread. I think the main thing driving the Secrecy of GW releases is that you will find customers who will hear something is coming out and stop spending, sometimes for months, but will continue to come into my store and use my tables, use my time but not support my store until that release. Since the change in information I find that customers spend continuously and do not really worry about what is coming out next.

Impulse buys are indeed powerful. The less time a customer have to plan and and gauge their purchase, the higher the possibility of them getting both.

Things that hurt independents more is discount retailers. The rely on volume because if you look at the basic accounting fundamentals a store down the street discounts product 20% has to sell 40% more to equal what I sell. Remember the saying work smarter not harder.

Though im sure it works for them easily as well. They arnt bound by location.

If you can not afford GW product maybe you should find a different hobby and quit wasting your energy complaining. That or you really think War Machine is cheaper..because I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

Now thats not fair. I remember there is a discussing about GW claiming lots of the kits, and their pricing are to test water of what customer likes, and what they are willing to pay.
I'd like to think the price hikes have reached the ceiling, and so far we have seen the recent kit's pricing being reasonable.
I think for the people that are worried about been able to afford or not, might get a 2nd chance to look at warhammer again.

Also warmachine is still cheaper, been able to expand infinity is irrelevant compared to whats the core amount needed to play.

Caddery wrote:I am fully behind this move and other Games Workshop has made this year.

There is a lot up in the air with this thread. I think the main thing driving the Secrecy of GW releases is that you will find customers who will hear something is coming out and stop spending, sometimes for months, but will continue to come into my store and use my tables, use my time but not support my store until that release. Since the change in information I find that customers spend continuously and do not really worry about what is coming out next.



If you can not afford GW product maybe you should find a different hobby and quit wasting your energy complaining. That or you really think War Machine is cheaper..because I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

Thats so interesting, you seem to be interested in the style of customer that doesn't uses his brain cells and plans or saves ahead... no wonder you like GW actions of late... Good luck for you with that, I really hope that for each customer that doesn't buy every week but saves money and buys full armies in one go each couple months that you kick out of the door is replaced by people who buy a blister every week
The guys that don't have money should just gtfo of my store and find anew hobby ehehehe good for you... you should put a paper on the store saying " only the filthy rich that don't have the habit to save money are welcomed"

Edit: Here's a question for you if a customer buys you a full nid army and paints and all hobby stuff to complete the army in your store and after that he has no intention to buy other armies is he not welcome to play in your tables? I mean GW only updates nids each 4 years so...

GW policy and products are aiming more and more to just one big sale start up and not catering for the slow burn customer or people who already have the armies they want completed, its OK but its costing them sales numbers every year... I wonder if thats the style of customer you wish because if thats the case you dont need more than 1 demo table instore.

Hulksmash wrote:If you're not selling enough to go directly through GW then you're not going to miss things coming in a few days later than normal. It's really that simple.

No, no it isnt...

LunaHound wrote:
Also warmachine is still cheaper, been able to expand infinity is irrelevant compared to whats the core amount needed to play.

Yup! You spend a couple hundred and your good to go in warmachine, if people don't stop there its their choice really... how much hundreds you need to have a complete and finished wfb, 40k army? More! So the only conclusion is that warmachine is more collectable.

Caddery wrote:I am fully behind this move and other Games Workshop has made this year.

et cetera..

If you can not afford GW product maybe you should find a different hobby and quit wasting your energy complaining. That or you really think War Machine is cheaper..because I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

No idea if you're actually a store owner or a sock puppet, but what a lovely attitude you have towards your customers. Care to share your shop details?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Aren't you lucky. You could be Maelstrom Games, a massive store that's a stone's throw away from GW HQ ... . And they're both in Nottingham!!!

You've just described why Maelstrom gets a hard time. They are direct retail competition to GW. And they discount.

Yeah but the GW HQ/Warhammer World isn't really just a 'bigger store'. It's their head office. The presence of a store onsite is incidental, not central to the building's operation or purpose. It's not a store that also happens to have a museum and the design studio. It's a corporate building that happens to have a store.

mikhaila wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Distributors sell to independent sellers. If they get the product on the street date that means they cannot get it to retailers till after the street date.

Distributors need to have it before the street date in order for them to have it to the retailers they service on the street date. Otherwise, independents aren't able to be competitive on street date.

Bingo.

This is an attempt to get those stores who use other distributors than GW for GW products to come back to them, pure and simple.

And from what I hear, GW is hell to use as a distributor.

Just my opinion, but you are hearing wrong. I've placed orders on Mondays and Wednesdays with GW for a couple of decades. I get product into my store like clockwork at the end of the week. I get my 150.00 a month in free product for tournaments just by asking, free racks just by asking. Can special order anything they have on their website with one email. I never pay shipping charges. They are actually very easy to deal with.

As I said, it's what I've heard. It could be personal bugbears against requirements on things that they have to order, it could be lingering resentment towards something that GW's done or how they operated in the past, it could be a personal despising of GW as a company or their products, I don't know, I'm not the store owners who've said it.