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Sergeant Horse wrote:I have a GW store about 20 minutes from me now. Since its opened, my business has increased from people that Kenny (the store manager) sends to me to get games in with the larger community. GW opening =/= plan to shut down indy store

While I'm glad that Kenny is doing that, it wasn't the GW SOP in years past. When I first took a trip to Georgia years ago, I stopped by the Hobby Hangout in Douglasville and asked them about the GW store that had opened up <5 minutes away... the owner wasn't flattering in his response. The same thing happened to my old store in another state in the mid/late 90's when the second GW store in the whole state opened up a <5 minutes down the same road in the same suburb. All of a sudden, their orders started getting delayed while their rep just lied to them about what the store down the road was selling/doing. That isn't third or even second hand knowledge as I specifically went to that GW store as part of an amateur sting to purchase two blisters that GW wouldn't ship the FLGS until release day and claimed they held their store to the same requirement.. yet were available for purchase several days before at the GW store. The owner faxed them a copy of the receipt and a photocopy of the back of the blister. While I'm glad that GW seems to have changed their attitude towards indie stores in the meantime, it doesn't erase the past for those of us who witnessed their skulduggery first hand.

warboss wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:I have a GW store about 20 minutes from me now. Since its opened, my business has increased from people that Kenny (the store manager) sends to me to get games in with the larger community. GW opening =/= plan to shut down indy store

While I'm glad that Kenny is doing that, it wasn't the GW SOP in years past. When I first took a trip to Georgia years ago, I stopped by the Hobby Hangout in Douglasville and asked them about the GW store that had opened up <5 minutes away... the owner wasn't flattering in his response. The same thing happened to my old store in another state in the mid/late 90's when the second GW store in the whole state opened up a <5 minutes down the same road in the same suburb. All of a sudden, their orders started getting delayed while their rep just lied to them about what the store down the road was selling/doing. That isn't third or even second hand knowledge as I specifically went to that GW store as part of an amateur sting to purchase two blisters that GW wouldn't ship the FLGS until release day and claimed they held their store to the same requirement.. yet were available for purchase several days before at the GW store. The owner faxed them a copy of the receipt and a photocopy of the back of the blister. While I'm glad that GW seems to have changed their attitude towards indie stores in the meantime, it doesn't erase the past for those of us who witnessed their skulduggery first hand.

Did they take any action against the manager? That's definitely against their corporate policy, and should have had some reprecussions.

Ironically, they have a set street date now, that applies to GW stores. But indie retailers can in most cases put the product out when they recieve it. So I'll be able to sell newcrons on thur/friday, but the GW stores will put them out saturday. Which makes the move to have stores that go through distribution get product later so odd.

This thread reads like desperate detractors trying to get some mud to stick to GW. Having said that, I see loads of books and computer games up on Amazon and the like way before the games are given a release date. Wether this is worth it for Necrons is up to individual stores. I'm not much interested in 40k until 6th ed comes out. I'm not a Necron fan and I don't think they are one of the main armies so I'm still bemused by the fuss. I wonder what people are hoping to see happen. There isn't going to be a single event where GW have a public spat and beg people to come back. The worst that would happen would be that they get bought out by another company because their IP can still generate a large revenue. Like I say, I dont know what people are expecting to happen with GW, they aren't about to collapse and they have a large fanbase and with the Hobbit coming they will regain customers.

This thread reads like people discussing why a toy soldier company made a decision not to inform distributors about the wares they may be about to distribute.

If that is not worth the fuss to you then no probs, but your statement is a personal opinion rather than a reason for justification of implimenting the policy, or what the effects might be.

mikhaila wrote:
Did they take any action against the manager? That's definitely against their corporate policy, and should have had some reprecussions.

Ironically, they have a set street date now, that applies to GW stores. But indie retailers can in most cases put the product out when they recieve it. So I'll be able to sell newcrons on thur/friday, but the GW stores will put them out saturday. Which makes the move to have stores that go through distribution get product later so odd.

I can't say if they took action against the GW manager as I only went to that store maybe twice before it closed down (and only when my FLGS was out of stock of something I needed). When I came back with the receipt proving they sold the product and gave it to the owner (and got my money back as I bought it for him by request), the FLGS owner got on the phone with his GW rep and faxed the receipt to him as he was still denying that stuff happened. After a reaming the rep a bit, he got his ship date changed to *arrive* on new-release fridays (to match the GW store's shipping schedule) instead of having it *shipped* to him on fridays as it had been for the previous years. This was back in the days of 3rd edition when GW actually told you what was coming out months in advance (as well as having 2-3 separate preview pics weekly on their website) so people anxiously awaited products with many of my fellow players buying them during the first few days of release. He still had stock problems once the competing corporate store opened up for another year or so, though.. but at least he was putting the new stuff on the pegs the same day as the GW store from then on.

I just think its hilarious how secretive and cuthroat a company for kids 12+ can be. From what a store manager of GW said to me once, they aim for people who get excited about new games and new releases and if they sell 1 starter army for every 10-15 peope that check out the store and never return its still profit. However, when they bogart the news of releases, many people who follow the game tend to drift away and spend their money on other entertainment. Kids spend their money on: Video games, toys, movies, etc. Adults spend their money on: Everything they need to live, and if no news of whats coming out is announced publicly in advance, a good amount of people will not save up for a new release.

Yeah, I don't get that. I can understand not wanting a release "spoiled" earlier than they want it to be, and GW isn't really alone in that regard, either, because Wizards recently punished a few people for spoiling the entire New Phyrexia set for Magic before they had revealed all the cards on their own website. But even then, Wizards does reveal every card in the set weeks before the set's release, and not only that but they make a whole event out of getting to play with the new cards early in the form of their Pre-releases, giving you the chance to not only buy packs early, but giving you a special promo and holding a tournament, the prize of which is more cards from the new set.

Magic also has an actual competitive scene, too, so you can kinda understand why they would want to control the info somewhat. You don't want some people to get an unfair advantage by being able to study the set early and figure it all out before everyone else. GW's competitive "scene" is a joke by comparison, a laughable fething joke, and it's all been said before so I'm not going to derail the thread over it...but the point is there isn't much of a point in all the secrecy surrounding a GW release. At least not to the point where we're only "allowed" to see the new models a week before they're available. For the most part people will have their minds made up about them whether the models are revealed three months or a week ahead of time. For example, people who don't like the funky headdresses on some of the new Necrons, would you have necessarily changed your mind if the first you'd seen them was Friday on GW's website instead of the BoW leak? No, probably not. If you don't like the "Tomb Kings in Space" direction they went in you probably still wouldn't like it on Friday, either. Seeing the storm raven at it's "proper" scheduled reveal (GW has no one to blame but themselves for that slip, too) wouldn't have made anyone like it more, the only thing that killed that model was having a really weird, unpopular design that was unlike anything anyone expected or wanted. Likewise, seeing a model early isn't going to make someone lose interest by the time it's actually available, and if they do they probably didn't really want it in the first place and probably would have skipped buying it anyway. I loved the DE razorwing when we saw the first pics of it (and the price too, oddly enough), still loved it when it went up for advance order, and I eventually bought one despite the fact that before the model was revealed I was perfectly content with filling my HS with ravagers and calling it good. I plan on buying two more, too, unless the price jumps again.

You can't really "spoil" a model release. People will either like it or they won't, and seeing/not seeing it early isn't going to change minds. GW are being fools by convincing themselves it makes a difference.

M:TG is as "competitive" as "competitive" Warhammer. Who ever spent the most to build the internet meta-game "winner" Deck/Army wins unless they run into someone that took the internet Deck/Army that someone else made just the put a screw to their own internet Deck/Army.

See also: "Leafblower" and "Fairies" and cross-reference it to "LOL Ardboys."

Hey Locky, answer me this: Did you get some sort of discount on that massive brush you use to paint everyone one with?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hey Locky, answer me this: Did you get some sort of discount on that massive brush you use to paint everyone one with?

Big brushes are pretty cheap anyway.

So how long do you guys think it is until 3D printers like MakerBot and stuff become common in houses. I think within the next 5-10 years pirated 3d models of GW units will be available for dl and printing in 3d printers. It is doable now if money isnt really an issue. I have a feeling that unless gw steps up customer service they are going to be bent over by customers mass producing their armies for the cost of plastic and electricity. If the 3d printer is a high enough quality and you use a similar plastic they would never even be able to tell once painted up.

Sid - actually you CAN "spoil" a miniature release, certainly when it comes to the hobby buying spiral. Early release of informtion at the wrong point does negatively impact sales.

But of course you'd know all of this, having researched the actual economics of hobby selling in detail, yes?

Not saying what GW always makes sense, however if they have decided to be secretive then you cant really react to them following logical steps to enforce that secrecy with such shock and suprise. WEll, you can if youre a fan of hyperbole, but thats not to everyones taste.

I like it when people assume winning is as easy as going online, copying a deck or an army card for card/unit for unit, and then just mindlessly throwing down cards or dice and beating people in the face without any effort at all. In reality, those people get their asses kicked because they don't know how this gak all works together. You'll often see a lot of people try to run the "super broken netdeck" at major tournaments, and they get put down pretty easily if they don't know what they're doing (I would know, having played with exact copies of decks I've seen online and gotten rolled over because I don't understand the basics of competitive play, like not keeping one land hands and hoping you draw into more).

Believe it or not, winning actually does depend on the player and not just what they're playing with. A Corvette won't help you win a race if you don't know how to drive. Owning a $5,000 gaming PC won't make you an expert at Call of Duty. And having the money to run Solar Flare won't help you win a Grand Prix if you've never played a game of Magic in your life.

Hox wrote:
So how long do you guys think it is until 3D printers like MakerBot and stuff become common in houses. I think within the next 5-10 years pirated 3d models of GW units will be available for dl and printing in 3d printers. It is doable now if money isnt really an issue.

I don't think that's going to happen. And I honestly wish people would stop saying "3D printing will ruin GW!"...

nosferatu1001 wrote:But of course you'd know all of this, having researched the actual economics of hobby selling in detail, yes?

Since you're a master of toy soldier economics I guess you can explain to me exactly how huge the negative impact of having the Necron release spoiled two weeks before they went on sale, as opposed to just one, really is. Seeing as how I'm just a lowly pleb and wouldn't know, of course.

In particular I'm really interested in watching you explain how the reaction to the stormraven would have been overwhelmingly positive if it were shown at the "right" time, instead of overwhelmingly negative when it was accidentally spoiled due to GW's own feth-ups.

This doesn't make any sense, when I worked in my local retailer the whole point was that I got advanced notification of new products so I could make shelf space, make posters etc and gauge interest and stuff. Oh dear.

sphynx wrote:This doesn't make any sense, when I worked in my local retailer the whole point was that I got advanced notification of new products so I could make shelf space, make posters etc and gauge interest and stuff. Oh dear.

Quiet you! Go drink more kool-aid!

....yeah, as a retailer, I'm horribly curious as to the reasons behind this. I've been told it's a very long explanation best given by someone in the UK. I'm not sure if I really want to hear it. Over the years, I've catagorized GW speak into 4 catagories.

When there isn't a problem:
1) The normal down talk I have with a good sales rep, like the one I have now, where we discuss the games and models, how to sell more, and figure out how much I'm getting each week.
2) The 'party line', which is pretty much what you hear in a GW store, rah rah sisboombah.

When I do have a problem and want it solved:
3) A serious talk where we cut the BS and partyline, and get things solved.
4) A horrifying attempt to make the upset retailer feel better with a hyper version of GW speak. I call this "Handling". Rather than solving problems, the person does his best to make you understand why there isn't a problem, or why you should like the problem, and see it as a challenge.

Having a Masters in statistics, 22 years of retailing, and quite a bit of backgroud that includes advertising, and economics, I really am curious to have a serious discussion about the merits and thought process behind the current marketing technique.

But if some fething limey tried to 'handle' me, I'd probably beat his head soft with a dreadsock. Very frustrated with the disinformation policy at this point.

On the original topic: Doesn't affect me at all, but also curious as how the hell it accomplishes anything good. We used to joke about the 3 important rules at GW:
#1 Sell more lead.
#2 Space Marines always win.
#3 See #1.
Over the years, I actually started taking #1 very serious. How is what I'm doing in my shop selling more product, both in the short term and in the long term? Applying rule #1 to some of GW's policies lately, I've got no clue.

Now it's time to get to work on rule#1, call my sales rep, and order one crapton of Newcrons. The irony is, no matter what GW does, I'm still going to work hard to sell the hell out of their product. (and PIP, FOW, Raging Heroes, Scribor, MAS, DnD, zombie jerkie, sixsiders, archie......).

Well clearly mikhaila, even though you're a business owner for 20+ years and having a background in economics, you don't know anything about economics, because what GW is doing is not only perfectly sane but makes every bit of sense to someone who knows how to make money.

I guess. I dunno. Don't worry, nosferatu will explain everything when he gets back.

mikhaila wrote:
....yeah, as a retailer, I'm horribly curious as to the reasons behind this. I've been told it's a very long explanation best given by someone in the UK.

Why? Do they think it would sound better with a British accent?

mikhaila wrote:
(and PIP, FOW, Raging Heroes, Scribor, MAS, DnD, zombie jerkie, sixsiders, archie......).

I detect a distinct lack of Infinity and Malifaux in your product lineup!

Sidstyler wrote:Well clearly mikhaila, even though you're a business owner for 20+ years and having a background in economics, you don't know anything about economics, because what GW is doing is not only perfectly sane but makes every bit of sense to someone who knows how to make money.

I guess. I dunno. Don't worry, nosferatu will explain everything when he gets back.

You just dont quit with the hyperbole, do you. Shouldnt be too shocked, it is you...

Did i say EVERYTHING was "perfectly sane"? No, thats your fallacy ridden bletherings. What I ACTUALLY said is that, IF you are following a policy of restricting information, then continuing to do so shouldnt come as a surprise.

the way people spend money is, despite your incredulity otherwise, able to be deflected by untimely releases of news.

So, to sum up: stop spouting hyperbole laden rubbish, stop using the worst logical fallacies to decry others, and you may appear slightly less hysterical than your posts make out and therefore slightly worth paying any attention to.

I clearly see both sides of this but does a few days really make that much of a difference? How much of the hobby is people that have to have it the earliest possible day they can get it? I don't ever do that, finish your current project, read the new codex, make an informed purchase. *shrug*

Whenever these threads pop up, I wonder if some of the hardcore GW fans on this board will say "that's it, that's the line, I can defend GW no further!"

Occasionally a person who tends to support GW will decide that they can no longer support them (Australia situation), but for the hardcore fans, it seems that GW can do no wrong.

This really is a stupid decision by GW. The rumor mill does far more to drive their sales than it does to slow them.

edit: No, dakka filter, I didn't mean "slow." I meant a close synonym of "impede" or "hinder."

Worglock wrote:M:TG is as "competitive" as "competitive" Warhammer. Who ever spent the most to build the internet meta-game "winner" Deck/Army wins unless they run into someone that took the internet Deck/Army that someone else made just the put a screw to their own internet Deck/Army.

See also: "Leafblower" and "Fairies" and cross-reference it to "LOL Ardboys."

Originally, I had something else typed, but I'll settle with this: That's wrong. Please do not talk about things you do not understand.

biccat wrote:edit: No, dakka filter, I didn't mean "slow." I meant a close synonym of "impede" or "hinder."

Then try "impede" or "hinder," or perhaps "impair." It's a rich language.

PhantomViper wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
....yeah, as a retailer, I'm horribly curious as to the reasons behind this. I've been told it's a very long explanation best given by someone in the UK.

Why? Do they think it would sound better with a British accent?

mikhaila wrote:
(and PIP, FOW, Raging Heroes, Scribor, MAS, DnD, zombie jerkie, sixsiders, archie......).

I detect a distinct lack of Infinity and Malifaux in your product lineup!

Forgot Malifaux, have a minimum of two each of every single blister, box, or deck.)

Didn't forget Infinity. Tried to sell it, hasn't caught on in this area. Sold 0 blisters, books or sets in 2 months, back it went to the distributer. Not sure why.

Janthkin wrote:

biccat wrote:edit: No, dakka filter, I didn't mean "slow." I meant a close synonym of "impede" or "hinder."

Then try "impede" or "hinder," or perhaps "impair." It's a rich language.

One which I sought to use to its fullest potential. Simply because the Dakka filter is niggardly about the scope of its use doesn't mean that I should be similarly constrained.

Seems like this is all because GW is peeved they keep getting leaks.
Must be one of the CEO's pet peeves that he cannot pull off a big secret release very well.
I would not be surprised if the leak was Jervis himself,the guy is a gamer at heart if it were up to him he would probally let people see what they were sculpting.

IIRC he was not amused at leaks of some previous work and was not forthcoming with the DE release.
Something to do with fuzzy fotos

mikhaila wrote:

Didn't forget Infinity. Tried to sell it, hasn't caught on in this area. Sold 0 blisters, books or sets in 2 months, back it went to the distributer. Not sure why.

It's nice that your distributor lets you do that. If you didn't sell something of GW's (like if for some odd reason you sold zero of your upcoming necron order hypothetically), would GW let you return the items for full credit?

This will absolutely affect my FLGS as they order through Alliance, I believe. Does anybody know when this goes into effect? Are my Necrons going to be late?

Hox wrote:So how long do you guys think it is until 3D printers like MakerBot and stuff become common in houses. I think within the next 5-10 years pirated 3d models of GW units will be available for dl and printing in 3d printers. It is doable now if money isnt really an issue. I have a feeling that unless gw steps up customer service they are going to be bent over by customers mass producing their armies for the cost of plastic and electricity. If the 3d printer is a high enough quality and you use a similar plastic they would never even be able to tell once painted up.

I don't think it will happen because I can't see an every day household use for a 3D printer.

Hox wrote:So how long do you guys think it is until 3D printers like MakerBot and stuff become common in houses. I think within the next 5-10 years pirated 3d models of GW units will be available for dl and printing in 3d printers. It is doable now if money isnt really an issue. I have a feeling that unless gw steps up customer service they are going to be bent over by customers mass producing their armies for the cost of plastic and electricity. If the 3d printer is a high enough quality and you use a similar plastic they would never even be able to tell once painted up.

The real problem is print quality. I don't know if you've ever seen makerbot products, but their level of detail isn't even close to what is necessary for wargaming figs. At the level that the technology is at now, it's probably easier to sculpt and cast your own models by hand. In a decade or two, maybe.

To the OT, it's really sad that GW feels the need to screw with their customer base even more. It's even sadder that this move isn't the least bit surprising to so many of us.