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mikhaila wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like GW really wants to cut out distributors from the food chain... if they're successful they sell to all stores and they do so at a higher margin than they sell to distributors.

Do they though? Or do distributors and retailers get the same discount from Games Workshop?

I ask, as before when our group checked into purchasing from distributors--the markup was generally 5-10% above buying straight from Games Workshop, which led me to believe they were afforded the same initial discount.

Distributors get a 2% higher discount than retailers. Alliance and most distributors sell to stores at 35% off, and free shipping over 400.00, so they are 10% higher than GW direct, but your profits on the product are slashed by about 22%. E-Figures sells at 40% discount on GW, with a flat 5.95 shipping charge, for a bit better deal. Stores won't see better than that, as I can't imagine a distributor working on less than 7% margin, with shipping charges and CC fees to eat, and have anything left over to pay for the staff, packing materials, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Distributors sell to independent sellers. If they get the product on the street date that means they cannot get it to retailers till after the street date.

Distributors need to have it before the street date in order for them to have it to the retailers they service on the street date. Otherwise, independents aren't able to be competitive on street date.

Indeed.

Also, Kan, they didn't "spoil" anything. They helped build up hype, something the company sucks ass at.

Semantics. Spoiled = Spoiler. That we all want the info ahead of time has nothing to do with GW's veiwpoint that the information was leaked out.

spoil (spoil)
v. spoiled or spoilt (spoilt), spoil·ing, spoils
v.tr.
1.
a. To impair the value or quality of.
b. To damage irreparably; ruin.
2. To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
3. To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
4. Archaic
a. To plunder; despoil.
b. To take by force.
v.intr.
1. To become unfit for use or consumption, as from decay. Used especially of perishables, such as food. See Synonyms at decay.
2. To pillage.
n.
1. spoils
a. Goods or property seized from a victim after a conflict, especially after a military victory.
b. Incidental benefits reaped by a winner, especially political patronage enjoyed by a successful party or candidate.
2. An object of plunder; prey.
3. Refuse material removed from an excavation.
4. Archaic The act of plundering; spoliation.

The word indeed has a pejorative meaning for the most part. The way you're understanding it requires explanation.

Alkasyn wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:It sounds like GW really wants to cut out distributors from the food chain... if they're successful they sell to all stores and they do so at a higher margin than they sell to distributors.

Do they though? Or do distributors and retailers get the same discount from Games Workshop?

I ask, as before when our group checked into purchasing from distributors--the markup was generally 5-10% above buying straight from Games Workshop, which led me to believe they were afforded the same initial discount.

Distributors get a 2% higher discount than retailers. Alliance and most distributors sell to stores at 35% off, and free shipping over 400.00, so they are 10% higher than GW direct, but your profits on the product are slashed by about 22%. E-Figures sells at 40% discount on GW, with a flat 5.95 shipping charge, for a bit better deal. Stores won't see better than that, as I can't imagine a distributor working on less than 7% margin, with shipping charges and CC fees to eat, and have anything left over to pay for the staff, packing materials, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Distributors sell to independent sellers. If they get the product on the street date that means they cannot get it to retailers till after the street date.

Distributors need to have it before the street date in order for them to have it to the retailers they service on the street date. Otherwise, independents aren't able to be competitive on street date.

Indeed.

Also, Kan, they didn't "spoil" anything. They helped build up hype, something the company sucks ass at.

Semantics. Spoiled = Spoiler. That we all want the info ahead of time has nothing to do with GW's veiwpoint that the information was leaked out.

spoil (spoil)
v. spoiled or spoilt (spoilt), spoil·ing, spoils
v.tr.
1.
a. To impair the value or quality of.
b. To damage irreparably; ruin.
2. To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
3. To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
4. Archaic
a. To plunder; despoil.
b. To take by force.
v.intr.
1. To become unfit for use or consumption, as from decay. Used especially of perishables, such as food. See Synonyms at decay.
2. To pillage.
n.
1. spoils
a. Goods or property seized from a victim after a conflict, especially after a military victory.
b. Incidental benefits reaped by a winner, especially political patronage enjoyed by a successful party or candidate.
2. An object of plunder; prey.
3. Refuse material removed from an excavation.
4. Archaic The act of plundering; spoliation.

The word indeed has a pejorative meaning for the most part. The way you're understanding it requires explanation.

Always glad to help. Athough I'm pretty sure if you can find 'spoil' in a dictinary, you could find 'spoiler'. I highlighted number 5 for you.

spoil·er (spoilr)
n.
1. One who seizes spoils or booty.
2. Something that causes spoilage.
3.
a. A long, narrow hinged plate on the upper surface of an airplane wing that reduces lift and increases drag when raised.
b. An air deflector mounted usually at the rear of an automobile to reduce lift at high speeds.
4. A candidate for office whose chances of winning are slight but who may get enough votes to prevent one of the leading candidates from winning.
5. A published piece of information that divulges a surprise, such as a plot twist in a movie.

It's their right to do so, certainly, though I am once again perplexed by their "business strategy".

However, if there are broken street dates that's a very different thing, but I feel that could be dealt with in a less hamfisted manner.

In an economy as bad as this, I wonder how sales will fair for this "last minute" release

Kanluwen wrote:You're somehow surprised about this, given that European independent game shops, specifically in Poland, pretty much spoiled three separate releases this year?

I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner, frankly.

If by 'spoiled' you mean 'actually made me give a gak about' then yes, I suppose they spoiled them massively.

I don't think this will make a lot of difference.

Since GW don't publicise any releases anymore, you just wait until something is released on the GW website, then order it from Maelstrom or Wayland as usual.

So long as you are not an impatient teenager, that is.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't think this will make a lot of difference.

Since GW don't publicise any releases anymore, you just wait until something is released on the GW website, then order it from Maelstrom or Wayland as usual.

So long as you are not an impatient teenager, that is.

How about impatient 35 year olds?

metaphor to GW's targeted teen customer purchase
it doesnt take long before they splurge out their parent's hard earned money all over the table.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't think this will make a lot of difference.

Since GW don't publicise any releases anymore, you just wait until something is released on the GW website, then order it from Maelstrom or Wayland as usual.

So long as you are not an impatient teenager, that is.

Or you wait and buy it at your local independent/GW shop/whatever place you go to.

Not buying from Maelstrom or Wayland means nothing in the grand scheme of things. If there's something my independent does not have in stock, they'll order it for me and I can pick it up the next time I make a trip out there.

I'm sure that they're not the only ones who do such a thing though.

Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Defeatmyarmy wrote: In an economy as bad as this, I wonder how sales will fair for this "last minute" release

This is a pretty valid point. I wound up dropping a few hundred bucks on Necrons largely because I had a good idea of when they were coming out due to leaks and so was able to save up cash over the last month. If this was am actual surprise release, I probably would have only bought one or two kits for now since Christmas is coming. I guess that cuts both ways though, with impulse buyers.

The Son Of Russ wrote:Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Apparently, they're making it so that independent distributors such as Alliance Games are going to be receiving their stock on the same date that you or I do.

Kanluwen wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Apparently, they're making it so that independent distributors such as Alliance Games are going to be receiving their stock on the same date that you or I do.

oh ty, and its bad as it takes longer to ship to pre-orderers?

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Apparently, they're making it so that independent distributors such as Alliance Games are going to be receiving their stock on the same date that you or I do.

oh ty, and its bad as it takes longer to ship to pre-orderers?

It gives customers no incentive to order from Indi sellers.

Depending on when you order, yeah.

If you order before the Wednesday of the release--your preorder will ship on that Friday. Orders placed after that Wednesday will not ship until the next Monday.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Apparently, they're making it so that independent distributors such as Alliance Games are going to be receiving their stock on the same date that you or I do.

oh ty, and its bad as it takes longer to ship to pre-orderers?

It gives customers no incentive to order from Indi sellers.

You have no idea what you're speaking of.

"Indie sellers" are not the same as "indie distributors". Customers do not buy from distributors.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but the GW HQ/Warhammer World isn't really just a 'bigger store'. It's their head office. The presence of a store onsite is incidental, not central to the building's operation or purpose. It's not a store that also happens to have a museum and the design studio. It's a corporate building that happens to have a store.

That's not the point. The point is that they're local, direct competition. It doesn't matter if GW corporate has an ice-cream factory attached to the roof. The same stuff happened to MG's Melbourne at one point when GW moved in a few blocks away in Melb. Suddenly weird things started happening to their orders. Delays, etc.

If Mik has no GW store anywhere near him, there's no incentive for them to screw with him. When they open up down the road, then he'll have something to worry about..

scipio.au wrote:That's not the point. The point is that they're local, direct competition. It doesn't matter if GW corporate has an ice-cream factory attached to the roof. The same stuff happened to MG's Melbourne at one point when GW moved in a few blocks away in Melb. Suddenly weird things started happening to their orders. Delays, etc.

If Mik has no GW store anywhere near him, there's no incentive for them to screw with him. When they open up down the road, then he'll have something to worry about..

There are 2 GW hobby centers about 30-40ish minutes from both of the Showcase comics locations, and of those he's the only one store that is expanding. I'm not quite local to that area and haven't been up there in some time, but there may have been a 3rd relatively close to one of his stores at some point as well in the past.

In Glen Burnie (Maryland) there is Games and Stuff, which operated before and after GW had its HQ/Battle Bunker in the same town, 15 minutes down the road for at least a decade before The Kirbster moved it to Memphis. In that time, G+S also expanded (moved to bigger locale a couple doors down). If a store went out of business when another chain opened up that sold 1 brand of product at regular retail , then that failed business had other problems, not some sort of conspiracy about missing orders and such.

I really don't see any reason to get up in arms about this development. Its not a malicious act, nor unsual in my experience.

Oui someone has me name

LunaHound wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:Wait, i don't understand what this thread is about? Is it GW blocking off their independant stores or raising prices or what?

Apparently, they're making it so that independent distributors such as Alliance Games are going to be receiving their stock on the same date that you or I do.

oh ty, and its bad as it takes longer to ship to pre-orderers?

It gives customers no incentive to order from Indi sellers.

Only if that indie seller (by which I assume you mean store) orders from other distributors. If the store orders from GW directly, then they will not be affected.

Big mistake GW.

One of my previous employers did the same thing, backed out of reseller / distributor arrangements. They were supported for a while by direct sales but at the end of the day they didn't have the smaller store support, and sales plummeted. They tried to get back in to distribution routes and, as expected, not so politely told to f off.

Same thing will happen here no doubt.

NELS1031 wrote:

scipio.au wrote:That's not the point. The point is that they're local, direct competition. It doesn't matter if GW corporate has an ice-cream factory attached to the roof. The same stuff happened to MG's Melbourne at one point when GW moved in a few blocks away in Melb. Suddenly weird things started happening to their orders. Delays, etc.

If Mik has no GW store anywhere near him, there's no incentive for them to screw with him. When they open up down the road, then he'll have something to worry about..

There are 2 GW hobby centers about 30-40ish minutes from both of the Showcase comics locations, and of those he's the only one store that is expanding. I'm not quite local to that area and haven't been up there in some time, but there may have been a 3rd relatively close to one of his stores at some point as well in the past.

In Glen Burnie (Maryland) there is Games and Stuff, which operated before and after GW had its HQ/Battle Bunker in the same town, 15 minutes down the road for at least a decade before The Kirbster moved it to Memphis. In that time, G+S also expanded (moved to bigger locale a couple doors down). If a store went out of business when another chain opened up that sold 1 brand of product at regular retail , then that failed business had other problems, not some sort of conspiracy about missing orders and such.

I really don't see any reason to get up in arms about this development. Its not a malicious act, nor unsual in my experience.

There's another south of me about 20-25 minutes in Bear, Deleware. Used to be one on South Street in Philly, but GW closed it. I bought all the stuff and moved in, still have some of the cool old posters, now up in my new store in the Mall. So 3 GW stores fairly close to me. Never had problems with my GW orders that could in any way be attributable to proximity to those stores.

I will say, that over the years I've investigated many claims by people that "My local store got screwed with by GW because they were near a GW store". Haven't found any evidence or had a store owner tell me that directly. Did find a few stores that used "GW screwed me" as an excuse for why their product was late, or special orders got screwed up.) Won't say it hasn't ever happened, but I think that at least in the US, it's more myth than fact.

Having seen the set up for orders being placed and picked, and how their corporate works, I think it would be damn hard for it to happen. Trade sales keep their jobs by making LGS happy. Screw that up and it screws up their job. If someone in retail was to try and screw with Trade Sales, it wouldn't go over well. Retail would have to work with the warehouse to do it. Tough, since US Trade buys from the UK owned and operated warehouse. Again, someone from retail asking for a favor of screwing up an order? Difficult to hide and make happen.

"Hey MR. LGS, did my Space Marines come in? Huh? Did they? "....."Nope, sorry about that Timmy, It's those damn guys at GW screwing with my orders again. I think they hate me personally and are working to put me out of business" "WOW, that sucks. I want my Space Marines. I'm going to go repeat this story on the internet. Darn those GW guys."

mikhaila wrote:
I will say, that over the years I've investigated many claims by people that "My local store got screwed with by GW because they were near a GW store". Haven't found any evidence or had a store owner tell me that directly. Did find a few stores that used "GW screwed me" as an excuse for why their product was late, or special orders got screwed up.) Won't say it hasn't ever happened, but I think that at least in the US, it's more myth than fact.

Yes I think this has come up in discussion before, and I believe the conclusion was a different situation in the US to that of the UK during the 90's.

Certainly, I was working for an Indie that had no problem at all with GW prior to the GW store opening down the road - as soon as that happened, late deliveries, not getting new releases in for 2 weeks after they had been with the GW store, and a host of other niggling difficulties. It frustrated the owner to the point where he stopped selling GW at all. I'm not sure if it still goes on these days (that was probably 15 years ago now) but the whole Indie vs. GW store problems has been commented on on numerous occasions.

Yeah, this was in the 90's in Australia, and was told to me by the staff member who was in charge of the miniatures stuff - who was also an actual friend and guy who was in our gaming group. So it wasn't in terms of "making excuses" but informal chat talking about stuff that had started happening at work. They didn't go out of business or anything, and are still going today, though we've all moved on. None of us were children by any means, even in the 90's though, so "Little Timmy" doesn't factor into the experience.

If Mik's experience is all positive, that's great, but back to the older point, if Maelstrom (who also don't seem to be going out of business) are getting mucked about while only a hop skip and a jump away from GW, you would wonder why this is the case...

Is this change for US distributors only or worldwide? I know that many of the US bits places use the middlemen distributors to get their stock to get around GW's policies regarding bits. And a few of the bits sites have the bits before release.

I had a store near me close after a GW store moved in, though all of the 'GW sponsored them until the market was there and then moved in' was spouted by customers. I never heard the owners say it. In fact, all they did was move to a better location in a city an hour away.

To be fair, the most I saw in there was the same ~10 customers week in, week out, who mostly played Warzone, so it's not like they built up a customer base for GW.

scipio.au wrote:Yeah, this was in the 90's in Australia, and was told to me by the staff member who was in charge of the miniatures stuff - who was also an actual friend and guy who was in our gaming group. So it wasn't in terms of "making excuses" but informal chat talking about stuff that had started happening at work. They didn't go out of business or anything, and are still going today, though we've all moved on. None of us were children by any means, even in the 90's though, so "Little Timmy" doesn't factor into the experience.

If Mik's experience is all positive, that's great, but back to the older point, if Maelstrom (who also don't seem to be going out of business) are getting mucked about while only a hop skip and a jump away from GW, you would wonder why this is the case...

Little Timmy is an in joke in my store, I may overuse it in analogies.) From what I can tell, the US had it a lot better than the rest of the world in terms of GW's treatment of Independent stores. Might stem from the shear number of independent stores and lack of coverage by GW in the us.

They screw with us less, because we make them money and they can't replace the lost sales without opening up 200-400 stores.

That said, what has been going on lately is mystifying, because I absolutely believe what they are doing is losing GW money, losing indepependent stockists in the US money, and losing ME money. The disinformation policy is frustrating. This last move is confusing.

-It only delays shipments to stores going through a distributor, not stops them. It won't hurt many online stores, since most have a B&M store as well, and can get the models by the weekend.
-It hurts stores that might be starting out with GW stock, and will hamper growth.
-Not enough GW stores around to get those lost sales, and many won't be going through mailorder if it's only a couple day delay in picking up their stuff.
-How the hell do those stores do any release day events with no stock?

Only thing I can see is a push to get stores to go with GW direct vs. a distributor.

Hypothetical mikhaila:

If you were getting your GW products through Alliance, what would your opinion of this change by GW be?

You would be amazed at what having to order with additional shipping can do to a small shop's bottom line. Even if its something small like $10 per order, 2 orders per week every week of the year is an additional $1040 of overhead for a business that has a notoriously low profit margin, especially during dry spells like the current economy.

Not having to ship another order every week alone is worth quite a bit of savings to your average FLGS.

if GW is going to keep trying to make releases top secret and all, they could at least manipulate what it is that they "leak" to create hype at the same time. They should learn to play some instruments, no more of this military-level secrecy. Yes, I know I use weird metaphors.

I have a GW store about 20 minutes from me now. Since its opened, my business has increased from people that Kenny (the store manager) sends to me to get games in with the larger community. GW opening =/= plan to shut down indy store