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Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I'd like to know too, as that was not my experience with those rules. The rules also said everything had to be modelled, you couldn't just rock up with a unconverted IG tank and say it is your VDR creation. Vast majority of stuff came out more expensive than it would normally be.

The only one I ever saw that abused the rules and wasn't hampered by points (and thankfully never made, this was just theorycrafting) was a Nid creation that was nicknamed "The Turd". It was a gargantuan creature that was 48" wide and a couple of inches long and just sat in front of the army, being immune to most small arms fire.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




One way you could make a very silly vehicle was to pack it full with small arms. 40+ storm bolters or w/e would pretty much delete anything not immune to S4 through sheer weight of probability.

You were supposed to fully model it but I can see some playgroups being a bit looser with that.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

WYSWYG is a reality check for some of the nonsense that comes out of those kind of systems. You have to commit to the absurdity. You knew it was broken when you theory-crafted it, but actually cutting up kits and glueing stuff together to kit bash something you know is based on ephemeral transient rules is a big step.

It separates the “I built something awesome and want to play it” from the “I designed something broken and want to win with it”

Don’t get me wrong, building broken vehicles and seeing who’s is the most broken is a lot of fun. I played Car Wars for years, and that’s the whole point of that game. But its core is vehicle design, not just a fun VDR set slapped on the side of an otherwise set of established units/rules.

   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Rosebuddy wrote:
One way you could make a very silly vehicle was to pack it full with small arms. 40+ storm bolters or w/e would pretty much delete anything not immune to S4 through sheer weight of probability.


*Looks over at Looted Wagon filled with Burnaboyz for 5th ed open-topped shooting shenanigans...

Nope, not sure what you're talking about, that's a daft idea!



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






I played in the Eye of Terror Campaign back in the early 2000s. So I was a little annoyed when they ret-conned the results of that campaign in favor of the new setting.

That said, at least they didn't completely blow up the setting like they did with Warhammer Fantasy.

Truth of the matter is I don't really mind what they did. It's good to see some movement in the narrative after all these years. I just wish they had done so in a way that respected the player base and prior canon.. I.E. Why couldn't Abaddon have waited another hundred years and then blow up Cadia? At least the players would have felt like they bought the Imperium some time.

Also, how many events can possibly happen in year 999 M41. Let's get on with the 42nd Millennium already!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Dekskull wrote:
Also, how many events can possibly happen in year 999 M41. Let's get on with the 42nd Millennium already!

And then we can cram an insane number of events into the first few years of the new millenium!
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





West Lafayette, IN

 Nevelon wrote:
WYSWYG is a reality check for some of the nonsense that comes out of those kind of systems. You have to commit to the absurdity. You knew it was broken when you theory-crafted it, but actually cutting up kits and glueing stuff together to kit bash something you know is based on ephemeral transient rules is a big step.

It separates the “I built something awesome and want to play it” from the “I designed something broken and want to win with it”

Don’t get me wrong, building broken vehicles and seeing who’s is the most broken is a lot of fun. I played Car Wars for years, and that’s the whole point of that game. But its core is vehicle design, not just a fun VDR set slapped on the side of an otherwise set of established units/rules.


The people in my club were contributing thise garbage 2nd edition plastic bolters to my 100 bolter tank. Never underestimate players' committment

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:
Also, how many events can possibly happen in year 999 M41. Let's get on with the 42nd Millennium already!

And then we can cram an insane number of events into the first few years of the new millenium!


And that's bad?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dekskull wrote:

I played in the Eye of Terror Campaign back in the early 2000s. So I was a little annoyed when they ret-conned the results of that campaign in favor of the new setting.

That said, at least they didn't completely blow up the setting like they did with Warhammer Fantasy.

Truth of the matter is I don't really mind what they did. It's good to see some movement in the narrative after all these years. I just wish they had done so in a way that respected the player base and prior canon.. I.E. Why couldn't Abaddon have waited another hundred years and then blow up Cadia? At least the players would have felt like they bought the Imperium some time.

Also, how many events can possibly happen in year 999 M41. Let's get on with the 42nd Millennium already!


Why should the players have bought time? The Imperium lost the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign.

They did sort of incorporate certain cherry picked things like Mordax Prime being taken over by Orks.

Overall the campaign could easily have been integrated into the new Rift plan as the campaign ended with Chaos winning and Cadia about to fall, and similarly I am a bit disappointed they did not. They could have tweaked the ending of the campaign though and it would have led into the events of the Gathering Storm anyway. Creed under siege was basically one step onwards from the end of the EoT campaign which was him pulling a Dunkirk like retreat. One could have segued into the other relatively seamlessly without any need for time jump.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 23:47:35


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Racerguy180 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:
Also, how many events can possibly happen in year 999 M41. Let's get on with the 42nd Millennium already!

And then we can cram an insane number of events into the first few years of the new millenium!


And that's bad?

It's the exact same problem, just with a different date.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




GW has "solved" that problem by throwing out the dating system. More specifically by invoking the timey wimey distortion of the warp and its differing effects on different places in the galaxy, and by saying Guilliman discovered that so many inaccuracies had crept into the old Imperial dating system that it was unclear whether it was the 41st or 42nd millenium given the wide window of possible error.

The problem is that as readers it makes it hard to piece together a coherent chronology of things, except in the vaguest terms. We know for example Guilliman sets off on his Indomitus Crusade and the various fleets set off at different times. We know that some novels take place after others, but how much later is very fuzzy.

Personally, I think it's GW and it's whole "can't be bothered" attitude towards details and timeline so they just invented an in-universe reason to handwave away discrepancies and inaccuracies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 08:24:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ellicott City, MD

Rosebuddy wrote:
One way you could make a very silly vehicle was to pack it full with small arms. 40+ storm bolters or w/e would pretty much delete anything not immune to S4 through sheer weight of probability.

You were supposed to fully model it but I can see some playgroups being a bit looser with that.


Or worse, you could build it with massed Necron gauss rifles. Not as many shots at >12”, but could Glance anything to death through rolling so many chances at 6’s…

Valete,

JohnS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 12:28:33


Valete,

JohnS

"You don't believe data - you test data. If I could put my finger on the moment we genuinely <expletive deleted> ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around"

-Jamie Sanderson 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Iracundus wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:

I played in the Eye of Terror Campaign back in the early 2000s. So I was a little annoyed when they ret-conned the results of that campaign in favor of the new setting.



Why should the players have bought time? The Imperium lost the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign.


Them's be fighting words!

Chaos definitely outplayed the Imperials. But there was a flaw in the campaign design that led to a weird result. During the campaign you could post your battle results to a "sector" or to individual planets. (GW's biggest mistake in setting up the campaign). Chaos/disorder targeted individual planets brilliantly, and made huge progress on several key worlds, but at the end of the campaign, the Imperium still dominated "Sector" control. I also think Cadia itself was pretty much tied at the end.

So GW came up with this idea that the Imperium kept control of the space lanes and used that advantage to cut off chaos reinforcements and stop Abaddon from taking Cadia, but that in the process, Chaos had conquered a bunch of worlds and was threatening many others. So it was kind of a "draw" in its own way.

In any case, better to let bygones be bygones. Onward to the 42nd millennium, or is it still 999 M41? LOL




   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dekskull wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:

I played in the Eye of Terror Campaign back in the early 2000s. So I was a little annoyed when they ret-conned the results of that campaign in favor of the new setting.



Why should the players have bought time? The Imperium lost the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign.


Them's be fighting words!

Chaos definitely outplayed the Imperials. But there was a flaw in the campaign design that led to a weird result. During the campaign you could post your battle results to a "sector" or to individual planets. (GW's biggest mistake in setting up the campaign). Chaos/disorder targeted individual planets brilliantly, and made huge progress on several key worlds, but at the end of the campaign, the Imperium still dominated "Sector" control. I also think Cadia itself was pretty much tied at the end.

So GW came up with this idea that the Imperium kept control of the space lanes and used that advantage to cut off chaos reinforcements and stop Abaddon from taking Cadia, but that in the process, Chaos had conquered a bunch of worlds and was threatening many others. So it was kind of a "draw" in its own way.

In any case, better to let bygones be bygones. Onward to the 42nd millennium, or is it still 999 M41? LOL


That's Imperial sore loser denialism. There was nothing weird about the campaign and again that has been the insinuation and disinformation over the years by those that could not stand losing or that never understood the campaign mechanics, which allowed for a smaller faction to still win against a more numerous faction if they posted their wins carefully. Cadia was not tied at the end. It was more under the control of Chaos after originally starting out at 95% Imperial Control and ending up at 39.8%. It is only ever been about this one and only one worldwide campaign where the Imperium did not win that there has been this kind of misinformation and denial about the result. It's poor sportsmanship to be honest.

The entire campaign results, offical result from Aus WD 287, sector and planet breakdown percentages, as well as event cards plus the date they were played (taken from the old campaign website), are posted verbatim here from the article by Andy Chambers:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page


Victory for Chaos! Not a complete victory, the forces of Order have held the line in many places and Cadia itself still defies the Arch Warmaster Abaddon. But nonetheless over eight weeks the forces ot Disorder have consistently out-fought and out-manoeuvred their opponents across the warzones of the Eye of Terror.

WD 287, Death by a Thousand Cuts by Andy Chambers


Forces of Disorder minor victory. A minor victory is not a draw. Winning a football game by 1 point is not a draw. If you lose a 40K game, accept the loss, shake hands,and move on. It's poor sportsmanship to claim a loss was a draw or that the other side only won by cheating (the other most common accusation I have seen with regard to the campaign). "If I win it is fair. If I lose it's because you cheated!" That's the kind of attitude I object to.

The day by day fluctuations in control are also archived here as further evidence, along with other admissions by Forces of Order players about the course of the campaign and the serious mistakes made by the Forces of Order:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031015103118/http://hipcat.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm

This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2021/09/27 14:03:00


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Iracundus wrote:
Winning a football game by 1 point is not a draw.

...there are no points in football - there are goals.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dysartes wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Winning a football game by 1 point is not a draw.

...there are no points in football - there are goals.


Of course you can score points in football, depending on the variation played: association football, rugby football, Gaelic football, American football, Australian rules football….

But on topic, I do remember that the Eye of Terror campaign was announced as a victory for Chaos, and then the disappointment when nothing changed on the background. The whole point of the campaign was that the results would influence the setting.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Eye of Terror. Chaos massively benefitted from having quite possibly the most broken and OP Codex ever.

The infamous 3.5 Chaos Codex.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Huh. The Eye of Terror denialism is still going strong it seems...

Aash wrote:
But on topic, I do remember that the Eye of Terror campaign was announced as a victory for Chaos, and then the disappointment when nothing changed on the background. The whole point of the campaign was that the results would influence the setting.

There were changes which persisted - the Tau's Third Sphere expansion, the fall of Mordakka, the rise of Ygethmor, etc. were subsequently referenced.

Where many people went wrong was assuming that 'influencing the setting' would equate to a major upheaval in the overall status quo.

It is however very disappointing that GW just ignored or later altered several major changes like the death of Eldrad for no good storytelling reason (but that's hardly unique to the Eye of Terror campaign).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Lord Damocles wrote:
Huh. The Eye of Terror denialism is still going strong it seems...

Aash wrote:
But on topic, I do remember that the Eye of Terror campaign was announced as a victory for Chaos, and then the disappointment when nothing changed on the background. The whole point of the campaign was that the results would influence the setting.

There were changes which persisted - the Tau's Third Sphere expansion, the fall of Mordakka, the rise of Ygethmor, etc. were subsequently referenced.

Where many people went wrong was assuming that 'influencing the setting' would equate to a major upheaval in the overall status quo.

It is however very disappointing that GW just ignored or later altered several major changes like the death of Eldrad for no good storytelling reason (but that's hardly unique to the Eye of Terror campaign).


What's ironic is that the opening of the Rift is just that kind of major upheaval that GW of that time shied away from. GW could have run with the ending of the Eye of Terror campaign with only some minor modification. Chaos breaking out of the Eye is effectively little different from what we have now with the Rift and Chaos forces now running around outside the Eye.

I don't mind Eldrad not dying now, though don't like how he is the Eldar Ghaz equivalent in that nothing is significant for the Eldar unless he is involved. The Eldar had done the best out of all the non-Imperial factions in the campaign, even though their Webway mini-campaign was one sided in their favor due to player numbers, and it always seemed a douche move for GW to go "Oh you did very well, ok, we'll kill off one of your main characters as reward." They could have done more with the whole reclaiming stuff or territory from the Crone worlds or establishing pockets of sanity within the Eye.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Eldrad coming back would be fine, if there was a reason for him being back (like the waystones plot thread which GW even set up!), rather than just 'He's back, and now he wants to destroy the infinity circuits. Deal with it'.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 cygnnus wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
One way you could make a very silly vehicle was to pack it full with small arms. 40+ storm bolters or w/e would pretty much delete anything not immune to S4 through sheer weight of probability.

You were supposed to fully model it but I can see some playgroups being a bit looser with that.


Or worse, you could build it with massed Necron gauss rifles. Not as many shots at >12”, but could Glance anything to death through rolling so many chances at 6’s…

Valete,

JohnS
The Necron VDR rules were so evocative and rad (and potentially broken). The one that forced Night Fighting rules against the vehicle in particular. Imagine a huge, titan-killing floating death war machine that you couldn't shoot at.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




 Gert wrote:
Oh, cool another thread where people complain about how much they hate 40k.

Bro thats like 90% of 40k

Leman russ punisher, your problem gone in one million bullets or less, or your money back 
   
Made in pl
Steady Dwarf Warrior



Wroclaw , Poland

Primaris,

is one word not, two i think


@PenitentJake


yeah, i think the GW should strengthen a bit


the game is far from perfection today, its more like a battle game, than a strategy miniature


because, it never happens that , a model is behind enemy line, and plays role without being attacked


i mean, game lacks the strategy


also, i think the range of miniatures is only about space marines, i wish to see new armies








Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ad Mech lost the Canticles , i really liked this army

Tau has lost alot of mobility , after removing from this army ability to make additional move during advancement phase


Necron has gain new models and the command protocols , which look very much like canticles


from 7th edition to, 9th the Tau has the biggest loses in advantages



i dont want to critisize GW strategy in game direction , where this game goes


but, if the strongest army was Tau, then the game politics was saying to improve tau, not bring it to the ground and demolish , the whole army to prove that Tau is just no good


i really liked Ad Mech, the kataphron destroyers, this unit is incredible, this army was really very cool in 7th edition


but, the rules in 8th edition was making the weapon choice , strange


it looks like, weapons that Ad Mech , had are much less deadly now



i stick to the , calculation that 1000 points, is really alot to count and building so big armies proves that game is a bit broken

too strong

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 10:35:36


 
   
 
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