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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hi there,

What’s the change in the setting or the fluff that you dislike the most. A change that’s taken place between The early editions, like 2nd and 3rd, and where we are now?
   
Made in us
Crazed Troll Slayer




Charlotte, NC

Two words: Primaris Marines!
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





The pushing of the IOM and the Space Marines as 'goodies', yes the darker elements still exist but theres now one heck of a Saturday morning cartoons varnish covering it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 20:26:22


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Oh, cool another thread where people complain about how much they hate 40k.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes, Gert its a pity to have this sort of threads... Specially when we could have other, very long threads dedicated mainly to speak very loud about how we hate the PEOPLE than play 40K with the excuse of representation in miniatures... Those were the good old days... Its sad they wont be back


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
The pushing of the IOM and the Space Marines as 'goodies', yes the darker elements still exist but theres now one heck of a Saturday morning cartoons varnish covering it


+1. The change in tone from the early more satirical days is a real pity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 21:32:41


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





What are we defining as old-timers?

If I had to give a change that I think was for the worse, the removal of women Astartes from Rogue Trader. I think having that player creativity and freedom was rather welcome.
(That's not inviting discussion on that topic, I'm sure - just stating my own preference as per the topic).


They/them

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Gert wrote:
Oh, cool another thread where people complain about how much they hate 40k.


is there any other type of thread on dakkadakka?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would like to see GW strengthen the connections between the Ordos of the Inquisition and their respective Chambers Militant.

I do want the Chambers to continue to have the option of functioning independently as they do now; I just want them to be able to work more closely with the Ordos when that's what a player wants.

Like maybe Inquisitorial detachments don't break army purity for their Chambers.
   
Made in us
Giggling Nurgling





I'm still learning what's changed, so no hate yet, but I'll probably find something somewhere. I'll keep ya posted.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






The advancements of late 7th edition onwards - not necessarily because they happened, but because of how little thought/effort clearly went into making them happen.

For example in Death Masque, Eldrad is back, despite being canonically dead. There were easy ways that GW could have worked around this problem - for example setting the narrative pre 13th Black Crusade, or progressing Eldrad's storyline which included a clear setup for him to return via his waystones. But instead he's just back with no explanation - don't think about it; just forge that narrative!

Or the Sisters of Silence are back - where are they getting all their outdated wargear from? Where are their fleets coming from? How does their recruitment work, and does it affect the Officio Assassinorium's recruitment for the Cullexus temple? What does the Inquisition think about this? How come the Sisters don't seem to have changed culturally at all over ten thousand years? What effect has this had on the power of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica relative to other Imperial organisations? - who cares? Don't think about it; just forge that narrative!

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Lord Damocles wrote:
The advancements of late 7th edition onwards - not necessarily because they happened, but because of how little thought/effort clearly went into making them happen.

For example in Death Masque, Eldrad is back, despite being canonically dead. There were easy ways that GW could have worked around this problem - for example setting the narrative pre 13th Black Crusade, or progressing Eldrad's storyline which included a clear setup for him to return via his waystones. But instead he's just back with no explanation - don't think about it; just forge that narrative!

Or the Sisters of Silence are back - where are they getting all their outdated wargear from? Where are their fleets coming from? How does their recruitment work, and does it affect the Officio Assassinorium's recruitment for the Cullexus temple? What does the Inquisition think about this? How come the Sisters don't seem to have changed culturally at all over ten thousand years? What effect has this had on the power of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica relative to other Imperial organisations? - who cares? Don't think about it; just forge that narrative!




the sisters of silence wargear consists of power armor, boltguns, flamers and power swords, hardly something that the IoM doesn't have, as for their cultural changes some have happened, you might wanna read "the emperor's legion"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Hmm.

Interesting question.

For me, it was introducing different Regiments of Imperial Guard. I much prefer the “one size fits none” look of the Rogue Trader Uniforms, where any regimental flairs were banners, badges and perhaps the colours of one’s fatigues.

But in 2nd Ed, we got what, six or seven different looks, at a time when GW really couldn’t support that many - and they never properly revisited them to flesh them out.

I strongly suspect the demise of Rough Riders was less them being an odd unit, and more the Atillan models looking crap.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I really dislike the advancing timeline and the stuff with Cawl introducing a bunch of new super tech. The super tech doesn't land for me and outside of the basic primaris the other designs like gravis or the stealth armour or the new grav tanks look ridiculous to me.

I hate the advancing timeline because it shrinks the universe down to a few special characters and leads to lots of meaningless conflicts where no one wins or loses.

   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




"Meaningless conflicts where no one wins or loses" is the basic premise of a setting based on the "there is only war" motto.

8th/9th edition timelime "jump" have not change that basic frame in the slightest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 09:14:40


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

So I didn't play 40k for a while I was WHFB first, came into 40k around 3rd edition which I loved.
Having only semi recently come back into the hobby and actually started building, painting minis and looking into the lore again, from my point of view nothing much stands out that is too offensive.

People just love to whinge.

I think yes the fact that the Imperium is being pushed as the good guys is irritating but that's been happening for a loonng time. It became a thing as soon as GW really pushed the NA market. I guess that's a thing I 'dislike' but it's not really anything to be annoyed about. It's just odd when they definitely aren't.

Also I can't stand the Tau now. I liked them being naively good in a galaxy of misery. The biggest mistake they did to me was go all out in the big mecha battlesuits instead of the xenos alliances. Was such a wonderful idea and its now a nothing.

I actually like the fact that the timeline has progressed, had to happen at some point to freshen things up. Allows for new stories and so on. I'm surprised it took this long in all honesty.


One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

hmm not really dislike but not some that I do like is the shift to full colour codex's, I am kind of here nor there about it and miss the old black and white images that seemed to have a very dour tone to them.

Am I the only one?

Other than that what I do quite like is the expansion of the universe through novels, sure they are mostly meh or average but some really really do shine and make me want to collect the models based on the imagery they convey through words.
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Vatsetis wrote:
"Meaningless conflicts where no one wins or loses" is the basic premise of a setting based on the "there is only war" motto.

8th/9th edition timelime "jump" have not change that basic frame in the slightest.


I knew someone would post that. Well, I should have been clearer with my meaning but I'm posting on my phone and that makes me lazy! I meant that the conflicts are always fronted by a pair of named characters but that we know that they are not going to die. Only thing that might happen is a space marine getting primarised. Conflicts not shifting the setting is fine, conflicts always consisting of pairings from a cast of two dozen super heroes and villains with no stakes are boring and more akin to professional wrestling than a game setting.

I also miss the black and white art, I really enjoy that style and 40k and fantasy had some of the best in the industry.

   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

Squats disappearing during second and then into third. I know it’s a meme now but I genuinely miss them. In first editions as a kid my only army was ORKS and my best mates were squats. Most my battles were against them. In second edition with the basic starter set army list they were good fun; powerful characters and small tough units. There bikes were a massive pain.

I have read that it was fluff wise they were too similar to fantasy dwarves or biker gangs and they didn’t know where to go with them
, but for me their fluff from 1st edition was good. Harlequins survived on less and are still going. They also teased new squat models in the 2nd starter set that were never released. They looked good, very much fantasy dwarf Saxon/Viking vibe.

Would really love to see them come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vatsetis wrote:
Yes, Gert its a pity to have this sort of threads... Specially when we could have other, very long threads dedicated mainly to speak very loud about how we hate the PEOPLE than play 40K with the excuse of representation in miniatures... Those were the good old days... Its sad they wont be back


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
The pushing of the IOM and the Space Marines as 'goodies', yes the darker elements still exist but theres now one heck of a Saturday morning cartoons varnish covering it


+1. The change in tone from the early more satirical days is a real pity.


Wind your neck in mate. This is the toxicity that ruins these forums. You disagree, fine we get it. Those threads were actually about how much some of love the hobby and want to make it better. But as Taylor swift says, haters gonna hate, hate, hate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 10:50:43


 
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

The removal of the Squats
Primaris Marines
The whole Horus Heresy.
Space Marines as giants
Primarchs as even more giant

....basically anything after Slaves to Darkness. :-)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think people disliking the HH and the way it’s impacted 40K is interesting because I remember reading snippets about the primarchs and the HH and really wanting to know more. But I think it was the mystery that made it exciting as you imagine what might have happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
What are we defining as old-timers?

If I had to give a change that I think was for the worse, the removal of women Astartes from Rogue Trader. I think having that player creativity and freedom was rather welcome.
(That's not inviting discussion on that topic, I'm sure - just stating my own preference as per the topic).


Just people who had been around since the early editions, this is really a thread on sentimentality and note hating 40K as some people want to say.

I miss the hardline on technological stagnation that was in and around 2nd and 3rd. Terminators and drednoughts could not be made new and they enjoyed the status of holy relics along with bolters which were passed down from one warrior to another. I think I even remember stories about space marines going back to battle sites to look for equipment to retrieve. A universe in which most technology is revered as a holy miracle because the understanding of science has been lost is cool to me, it’s deep sci fi.

I’m not sure how far down that tunnel my teenage mind went and I’ve remembered head fluff as lore but there wasn’t as much lore going around at the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 11:13:38


 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




 Da Boss wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
"Meaningless conflicts where no one wins or loses" is the basic premise of a setting based on the "there is only war" motto.

8th/9th edition timelime "jump" have not change that basic frame in the slightest.


I knew someone would post that. Well, I should have been clearer with my meaning but I'm posting on my phone and that makes me lazy! I meant that the conflicts are always fronted by a pair of named characters but that we know that they are not going to die. Only thing that might happen is a space marine getting primarised. Conflicts not shifting the setting is fine, conflicts always consisting of pairings from a cast of two dozen super heroes and villains with no stakes are boring and more akin to professional wrestling than a game setting.

I also miss the black and white art, I really enjoy that style and 40k and fantasy had some of the best in the industry.


Fair point. We agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote:


Wind your neck in mate. This is the toxicity that ruins these forums. You disagree, fine we get it. Those threads were actually about how much some of love the hobby and want to make it better. But as Taylor swift says, haters gonna hate, hate, hate.


The main figure of hatred in Western Christianity those so because how much he loves God. Love and Hate live quite close together in the emotional spectrum and can even happend simultaneously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 11:20:59


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I do feel the Horus Heresy has been very much over explained.

But my biggest pet peeve is the narrative direction since Gathering Storm.
I think throwing around all this new technology meshes poorly with the established setting. I also dislike every new story being the biggest epicest clash between the same characters over and over again.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





2 things mainly:

1. The change to the necrons in 5th
2. the introduction of Primaris Marines - would have been so much better to just upscale the normal marines. also who decided how gravis marines should look??? Give me Terminators and Land Raiders over Agressors and Repulsors any day.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 11:42:34


Praise the Omnissiah

About 4k of .

Imperial Knights (Valiant, Warden & Armigers)

Some Misc. Imperium units etc. Assassins...

About 2k of  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






BrianDavion wrote:

Or the Sisters of Silence are back - where are they getting all their outdated wargear from? Where are their fleets coming from? How does their recruitment work, and does it affect the Officio Assassinorium's recruitment for the Cullexus temple? What does the Inquisition think about this? How come the Sisters don't seem to have changed culturally at all over ten thousand years? What effect has this had on the power of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica relative to other Imperial organisations? - who cares? Don't think about it; just forge that narrative!




the sisters of silence wargear consists of power armor, boltguns, flamers and power swords, hardly something that the IoM doesn't have, as for their cultural changes some have happened, you might wanna read "the emperor's legion"

That's not really true though is it - specifically they have Umbra pattern bolters, which aren't used extensively by any other organisation, being Heresy-era kit; they use Vratine armour, which appears to be unique to them; similarly they use non-stanard power weapons in the form of executioner greatblades - where are they getting all this stuff from?

There's potential for cool narrative here - the Adeptus Astra Telepathica announce that they're getting the band back together and still have a contract for supply with the Adeptus Mechanics, but the Mechanics aren't happy with this arrangement, and so supply outdated wargear malicious compliance style.
But no; a bolters a bolter. Don't think about it!

And I have read The Emperor's Legion - the Sisters have the same vow of silence, the same signature weapons, the same fighting styles, the same liveries, etc etc despite supposedly not having existed as an organisation for ten millennia...

The Sisters from The Beast Arrises series were more divergent from their Heresy-era counterparts, and only one thousand years had passed!
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




The historical continuity between 30K and 40K Imperium makes no sense whatsoever. That not how human societies work, period.

If you thing to hard about most of the 40K lore elements they fell apart. That why this is a setting that works better as a satire.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

The general idea of the Imperium innovating strikes a wrong chord for me; stagnation, what stagnation?

More than happy to never see Squats return. They were a hackneyed concept without a purpose.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Oh, and named characters.

Not so much them being a thing, but becoming so central to the background. I feel it to be limiting on the writers.

Example? Ghaz vs Ragnar. We both knew nobody was going to die there, which rips the dramatic tension out of it.

This may be heavily informed of my modern media consumption such as GoT and Walking Dead, where big names can and do snuff it.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I agree, and there's absolutely no reason that characters can't snuff it in 40k.

Fear of killing off characters, especially when dominated with 'fake-out deaths' coughrubiconcough is widely lamented as a poor trick used by spineless writers when it comes to TV or films.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





My issue with the Horus Heresy isn't what we've gotten from it. It's that it's become the introduction for people getting into 40k. New fans aren't handed a rulebook or a codex, or even something set in M41. They're handed Horus Rising. After that a lot of folks never move on. They stay in 30k and assume the rest of 40k is just like it. That primarchs are the only things that matter and that there's supposed to be a continuous, galaxy-spanning storyline.

Hell most new "Intros to 40k" I've seen are literally just detailing the Horus Heresy! As big of a thing as it was, 10,000 is a long time and you really don't need to know that much about it to understand how the setting works.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






What? When are new starts handed Horus Rising? They get whatever the edition Starter Set is then get sold the book that goes along with that starter set. Indomitus, Dark Imperium and if not one of them, then a collection of short stories about Space Marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 13:18:45


 
   
 
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