More IG info from Warseer *Update 3/16/09: hands-on info from reds8n*

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**ubermosher**

Compliments of PFC Hudson.

I had a look at the promo material that GW is sending to the stores for IG. Here are some of the highlights that I recall:

Troops:
Frag Grenades are now standard equip for guardsmen.

Confirmed that Infantry is being repackaged in boxes of 10 troopers at $22 / box. Only special weapons (flamer, GL) included. Also for both the Cadians and Catachans it was mentioned that options for creating more 'exotic' troop options such as Penal Legionairres, Conscripts, and Veterans will be included -- perhaps an accessory sprue with addtional heads, etc?

Orders:

Three orders were mentioned: The extra shot with lasguns order, the TANK order, and an order that improves your cover save.

Voxcasters allow a reroll on your leadership check for orders.

Tanks:

At the front of the flyer it was stated that Tanks can be taken in squads of 3, in the summary at the rear it said Leman Russ Battle Tanks can be taken in squadrons of 3, so at least LRBT's can be taken in squadrons of 3.

Lumbering Behemoth rule was confirmed.

Valkyries:

Valkyries can be taken in squadrons of 3 as a single FA choice.

Also infantry can deep strike along the path of the Valk taking a dangerous terrain test.

Chimeras are cheaper and available to all infantry. Mobile command post means that Officers can issue orders while embarked.

Commissars:

still cap the squad leader if he fails a morale check. (they had to keep that, it's too funny to drop)

**Grandmaster**

All sound good!

So thats 6 more Russ's and at least 3 Valks! May is going to be a fun month!

**Hammerziet**

Troops:
Frag Grenades are now standard equip for guardsmen.

Confirmed that Infantry is being repackaged in boxes of 10 troopers at $22 / box. Only special weapons (flamer, GL) included. Also for both the Cadians and Catachans it was mentioned that options for creating more 'exotic' troop options such as Penal Legionairres, Conscripts, and Veterans will be included -- perhaps an accessory sprue with addtional heads, etc?

Few questions. When he says about the frag grenades does that mean they are in the 4 points cost of a basic gaurdsman? Also about the repackage is this simply just a 1/2 the stuff 2/3 the cost job? Or is there somthing in it that isn't in the current £18 box (sorry I have no idea what a box costs in the states).

Actually I'm just asking what comes in the current box and whether there is any point in waiting for the £12 box to get some gaurd?

**The Dreadnote**

From what I gather it's 1/2 the content, 2/3 the cost. If you want to save money it'd probably be a good idea to buy up 20-man boxes while they're available.

**warpcrafter**

Go armored fist! Wall o' tank shock coming right up! Hurr that!

**nieto666**

Koolness, good thing im stocking up on guardsmen now. lets see here 20 for $35 or 20 for $44 pretty much a no brainer!!

**ShumaGorath**

Dangerous deep striking along the path of the valk sounds a lot better than a 24" movement and disembarkation.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Tank squadrons sound scary (9 pie plates of doom!!!!)

**ShumaGorath**

My guess is that the squadrons will have 0-1 limitations. I sincerely hope that they don't allow 9 demolishers in an army.

**grizgrin**

Sounds good.

**jp400**

So let me get this straight...

Free Frag Nades......... not very excited over this...
Extra Str 3 shot at BS 3........ again not very excited...
Better Ar save...(most likely +1) ....... not very excited over due to the sheer number of weapons now that negate cover saves.

Overall.... Im hopeing for better.

**ShumaGorath**

But you get all 3 at the same time... I think maybe your asking a bit much there.

**Scottywan82**

Sad day. I agree with Shummy.

**Red**

all 3 at the same time plus the fact that they are 4pts each what else do you want from a guardsmen IMHO that's awsome

**Dave47**

Frag Grenades are now standard equip for guardsmen.

That's unexpected. I figured that was how GW was going to differentiate IG from Space Marines: The marines are the guys with all the free stuff. IG with free grenades makes me strongly suspect that IG tanks are going to come with free smoke and searchlights.

This is actually a pretty useful addition, as Frag Grenades are Str 4 vs. vehicles, so it's no longer possible for a single Sentinel to tie up and slowly anihilate an infantry squad. Has anyone actually confirmed 4 point Guard, or just "cheaper" Guard?

Three orders were mentioned: The extra shot with lasguns order, the TANK order, and an order that improves your cover save.

Whoah, I also would have guessed that Camoline was gone forever. 3+ coversaves for IG are brutal versus other shooty armies.

At the front of the flyer it was stated that Tanks can be taken in squads of 3, in the summary at the rear it said Leman Russ Battle Tanks can be taken in squadrons of 3, so at least LRBT's can be taken in squadrons of 3.

As much as I think the "immobilized=destroyed" rule for squadrons is silly, it's probably going to be kept. They need to do something to help other armies deal with the threat of that many tanks.

**Death By Monkeys**

Hrmf. I'm going to be bummed if they don't get the order that allows IG to shoot through their own units without giving opposing models a cover save. I wonder if the "TANK" order will be the "Lumbering Behemoth" rule. Good news, of course, in the confirmation of being able to take LRBTs in squadrons of 3 - I wonder though if this will be 0-1 as rumored or if you'll be able to run a full 9 LRBTs as your heavy, or for that matter if you'll be able to run Leman Russ variants in squadrons. Valks in squadrons of three is also good news. This means I can still run at least two Hellhounds (if not more with Platoon attachments) and still get to run some Valks as well. And as far as "Mobile Command Post" goes - does that infer that orders usually don't work if the commander is inside a different vehicle - say an allied rhino or land raider.

**ubermosher**

Dave47 wrote:
That's unexpected. I figured that was how GW was going to differentiate IG from Space Marines: The marines are the guys with all the free stuff. IG with free grenades makes me strongly suspect that IG tanks are going to come with free smoke and searchlights.

The Imperial Armor update shows the Chimera at 55 points, with Mobile Command Vehicle rule, and yes, smoke and searchlight standard.

Dave47 wrote:
This is actually a pretty useful addition, as Frag Grenades are Str 4 vs. vehicles, so it's no longer possible for a single Sentinel to tie up and slowly anihilate an infantry squad. Has anyone actually confirmed 4 point Guard, or just "cheaper" Guard?

Its a pretty wide-spread rumor that a basic infantry squad is 40 points. But then you have to factor the cost of a heavy weapon, special weapon, and now it's looking like a voxcaster will be pretty worthwhile. It'll add up.

Dave47 wrote:Whoah, I also would have guessed that Camoline was gone forever. 3+ coversaves for IG are brutal versus other shooty armies.

I'm wondering if the +1 to cover save will stack with Going to Ground. Plant a couple of 40 pt squads on an objective, and give them a 2+ cover save.

Dave47 wrote:
As much as I think the "immobilized=destroyed" rule for squadrons is silly, it's probably going to be kept. They need to do something to help other armies deal with the threat of that many tanks.

There may be an option for Track Guards to mitigate the immobilized result. We do know that Camo netting will do something. The IA2 update listing for Chimera listed the option for 20 points. Probably gives a cover save to a vehicle until it moves.

**ubermosher**

Death By Monkeys wrote:Hrmf. I'm going to be bummed if they don't get the order that allows IG to shoot through their own units without giving opposing models a cover save. I wonder if the "TANK" order will be the "Lumbering Behemoth" rule. Good news, of course, in the confirmation of being able to take LRBTs in squadrons of 3 - I wonder though if this will be 0-1 as rumored or if you'll be able to run a full 9 LRBTs as your heavy, or for that matter if you'll be able to run Leman Russ variants in squadrons. Valks in squadrons of three is also good news. This means I can still run at least two Hellhounds (if not more with Platoon attachments) and still get to run some Valks as well. And as far as "Mobile Command Post" goes - does that infer that orders usually don't work if the commander is inside a different vehicle - say an allied rhino or land raider.

It's been my understanding from the rumors that Platoon Drill will be a special rule, not an Order.

From what I've seen, "TAAAANK!!!", and yes it's been spelled that way, adds +1 to armor penetration. The most practical application of which is, of course, to glance AV10 with flashlights.

**ubermosher**

jp400 wrote:So let me get this straight...

Free Frag Nades......... not very excited over this...
Extra Str 3 shot at BS 3........ again not very excited...
Better Ar save...(most likely +1) ....... not very excited over due to the sheer number of weapons now that negate cover saves.

Overall.... Im hopeing for better.

As mentioned, Frags will at least give the common guardsman something to do when a vehicle is within 6"

According to Warseer, it's not an extra shot, but an opportunity to shoot twice with flashlights. 20 S3 shots might not be effective, but 40 might.

As for not getting excited over 3+ cover saves... what did you expect? 4pt guardsmen with refractor fields? The main weapons that ignore cover saves are template weapons. Anyone close enough to use a template weapon is probably close enough to take a bajillion flashlight shots/pie plates in reply on the next turn.

**warpcrafter**

Chimeras are 55 points? Excuse me while I wipe up...

**Platuan4th**

warpcrafter wrote:Chimeras are 55 points? Excuse me while I wipe up...

Yes. And at a base of 95 points instead of the current 140, my Mech Guard are very happy.

Now to just find that last 10 Praetorians for first platoon and start ordering tons of Steel Legion for the other Platoons...

**Hulksmash**

I'd have to say that the 10-man box rumor is false. Everyone i've talked to says 10 men w/special and heavy weapons for $22. Games-Workshop has been making every army cheaper over all when lowering the points. Fantays and 40k.

Best example is Orks who used to be 80 for $175 with no heavy weapons and no nobz. Now they are $176 for (i think, can't remember if you can make 11 or 12 inc. the nob) 88 models with heavy weapons and the nobz. It doesn't seem like much straight up but add in just 4 nobz ($40) and 2 blisters of heavy weapons ($30) and you get a massive savings.

The rest seems reasonable. It'll allow people to get the models on the table. I would bet though that "squadrons" are 0-1 and but individual units in game terms (i.e. biovores, lictors, DA ravenwing, and to a lesser extent marines).

**The Angry Commissar**

squadrons yes!!!!!!!!! GLORY FOR THE IMPERIUM!!!!

**alarmingrick**

either way, i'm going to have all the troops/hvy weapons i'll need before
the 'dex Hits. i can't/won't take the chance they'll screw over everyone with
10 troops for $22.

**BoxANT**

ubermosher wrote:

According to Warseer, it's not an extra shot, but an opportunity to shoot twice with flashlights. 20 S3 shots might not be effective, but 40 might.

Wait, so are you saying that you can "Rapid Fire" twice? So 10 lasguns rapid firing is 40 shots? Because if that is so, then that is freakin' awesome.

I actually thought that GW was going to give the basic guardsmen frag grenades. It makes sense from the fluff, and gives those poor guardsmen a chance at taking out armor.

These rumors are awesome

**Mickhedd**

If this is all true I look forward to the days when I looked back at the "good old days" and there were other armies people played...

**Dave47**

BoxANT wrote:Wait, so are you saying that you can "Rapid Fire" twice? So 10 lasguns rapid firing is 40 shots? Because if that is so, then that is freakin' awesome.

My guess would be that it just lets you rapid fire up to 24" instead of 12" if you stand still. 40 shots coming from a 40 point squad on the move would be crazy-broken.

I actually thought that GW was going to give the basic guardsmen frag grenades. It makes sense from the fluff, and gives those poor guardsmen a chance at taking out armor.

Yeah, it makes a lot of fluff sense, since the IG that we play generally represent the "elite" of the Imperial Guard, and even "typical" IG are better trained and equiped than most PDFs. The fact that IG ae "weak" just goes to show how incredibly powerful everything else in 40k is.

The problem is one of gameplay: if you give almost every unit in 40k grenades, it kind of defeats the point of cover. It reminds me of RT / 2nd Ed. "smoke grenades": if even Imperial Guards are assumed to have good enough optics to see through smoke grenades, why bother making complex rules for them? Giving every rule an exception makes for cool fluff, but bloated gameplay.

**anticitizen013**

Hmmm... Maybe I WILL be able to make a Tank Coy...

**Valhallan42nd**

Until I see a PDF, er I mean, SAMPLE CODEX, I don't think it's worthwhile to speculate.

**pcon426**

9 valks+9 leman ruses+50 stock gaurdsmen=