More IG info from Warseer *Update 3/16/09: hands-on info from reds8n*

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**Raxmei**

JohnHwangDD wrote:But looking at the numbers... Guard with a +1S vs vehicles would have 21 attacks (charging). On average, that would be 10+ hits, for 1.5 Glances... If I'm a Sentinel pilot, I'm still far better off in HtH than being shot at.

Math's a bit off. Grenades only allow a single attack against vehicles. Against a walker they only hit on a 6. So ten attacks, 10/6 hits, 10/36 glances.

**BoxANT**

Raxmei wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:But looking at the numbers... Guard with a +1S vs vehicles would have 21 attacks (charging). On average, that would be 10+ hits, for 1.5 Glances... If I'm a Sentinel pilot, I'm still far better off in HtH than being shot at.
Math's a bit off. Grenades only allow a single attack against vehicles. Against a walker they only hit on a 6. So ten attacks, 10/6 hits, 10/36 glances.

pretty sure he is talking about an infantry squad w/ +1 armor pen "TAAANK!!" order. Would give IG 21 S4 attacks on the charge against vehicles.

Of course, this could also work with Frag grenades, giving you 10 Str5 attacks, would help against Killer Kans.

**Achillius**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Achillius wrote:
Dave47 wrote:I think the real ramification of the change is Strength 4 versus vehicles rear armor. Guard can now damage many vehicles in assault, and can no longer be tied up in close combat by things like Sentinels.

Now that sir is the real kicker. I can actually hurt certain vehicles in HTH. Sure the odd meltabomb will be there but this is huge...

Um, huh?

Guard wouldn't be tied up by non-Walker Vehicles anyways, and those can already be shot to death without any problem.

Guard still engage Walkers on their Front armor in HtH, so that doesn't change against the real threats. And shooty Sentinels / War Walkers aren't the kind of Walkers that scare Guardsmen - massed Kans are a problem, along with Chaos Dreads and SM Ironclads... Dread-class Monsters like WLs and Carnifexes still munch Guardsmen in HtH.

But looking at the numbers... Guard with a +1S vs vehicles would have 21 attacks (charging). On average, that would be 10+ hits, for 1.5 Glances... If I'm a Sentinel pilot, I'm still far better off in HtH than being shot at.

Nice numbers, I've played for a long time now without getting into the numbers too much and have enjoyed every minute of it. The simple fact is, today I may have a guard squad, that has an officer with Krak or Melta's charge a vehicle to shut it up. Now everyone has a chance to help kill it

My dice ignore the stats anyway, sometimes they suck and yet at other times they really suck, that's what lots of everything is for !!

**ricekake87**

Any news on a sample out there yet????

**Superscope**

OMG, My tau.... my poor poor tau are getting..... outgunned?

*Cries himself to sleep*

**Sternguard_rock**

Its forums like these that make want to collect IG.

**warpcrafter**

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I love the way the metagame is swinging towards hordes.

You obviously don't play plague marines. They're outnumbered by everybody.

**Superscope**

warpcrafter wrote:
chaplaingrabthar wrote:I love the way the metagame is swinging towards hordes.

You obviously don't play plague marines. They're outnumbered by everybody.

What about gray knights and their buddies?

**Lord Solar Plexus**

Death By Monkeys wrote:I really think that folks getting excited for 9 LRBTs are setting themselves up for disappointment. Maybe I've been hanging around Agamemnon2 and H.B.M.C. too long, but I'm not convinced that GW will let Guard players go that tread-crazy.

I have a hard time getting 3 MBT's into my list, at least with all the other nice toys I must take!!!

Orlanth wrote:I am wondering how the new lasgun line will hold up to massed ork boyz. Looks very good on paper but when the boyz get to close combat it is all over, as usual.

Since I'm usually able to hold the line even with this codex, and since CC - contrary to your assertion - isn't the end of the world but the end of a single expendable squad, I expect IG to fare extremely well against Ork hordes.

**JD21290**

ive never wanted to play guard due to the high ammount of painting basic troops, but i might give it a shot if some of this was true

9 valks, 9 russ's, fill the rest in with basic troops with transport

**Lord Solar Plexus**

I guess we know that ever since you posted it from your other account as pcon426 - it must be the same person, looking at those random number/letter combos - on the first page. Regrettably you did not read Vakhtati's response. It will not be possible in anything but Apoc games - and it has been possible in those for quite some time now.

**Ravajaxe**

Hi guys !
Last few months, I've been somewhat disconnected from 40k due to lack of time...

What a surprise to discover that GW-france had leaked the IG reference sheet. I get really amazed !
Just awesome to see such a comprehesive piece of info, two months before release.

These last rumors are quite exiting about IG rules, but I need some explanations to catch my delay :
I can't find what the "lumbering behemoth rule" means. Anyone can help ?
"Special orders" need to pass a Ld test I presume ?

**ubermosher**

Ok, there is little more grist for the rumor mill from the Warseer thread. It was taken from a Librarum Online post without the poster's name being credited, so being third-hand info from a source of unknown veracity, take it with a huge grain of salt. That being said, most of the items in the post have been confirmed elsewhere (hellguns AP3, Speahead Sentinels FA:12, etc.), so the new tidbits may have a kernel of truth.

So I went to my local, friendly GW store yesterday and one of the staff members was kind enough to share some of the rules from the new codex with me. Here's what I remember, so take it with a grain of salt. And feel free to not believe me, I'm just a guy on the internet.

1. Hellguns are confirmed with AP3
2. Primaris Psykers and Lord Commissars are HQ choices
3. Primaris Psykers have a "night cloud" ability that makes units shooting at him and a squad attached to him (if there is one) pass a leadership test. Also, he has a ridiculous psychic lightning thing that will completely fry anything it hits.
4. Master of Ordinance is an advisor or something [b]who can drop one ordnance blast every turn. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that.
5. You can have a squad of psykers as an elites choice that contains 1 lead psyker, and between 4-9 (not completely certain on the numbers) psykers that has a leadership-draining ability that is dependent on how many psykers are in the squad (i.e. 9 psykers = drain 9 leadership)
6. Chimeras will be a transport upgrade for regular guard infantry
7. Orders is a new system which allows HQ to increase the ability (i.e. better shooting against tanks) of another unit. Vox's will now allow the HQ to reroll their leadership roll to give orders.
8. Valkyries will come with their own flying base and will count as flyers and can possibly move 24". They also come with a rule which allows the squad they are carrying to deep strike anywhere the valkyrie has moved over in that movement
9. Commissars will be upgrades to squads
10. New infantry boxes will be 10 men with a flamer and a grenade launcher, but will have many more bits allowing you to create hardened vets, penal legion troops, or regulars.
11. Leman Russ has a new rule which allows them to always fire their turret weapon as long as they have moved 6" or less along with one offensive weapon (i think)
12. Armored Sentinels will be closed-topped and have front armor 12, while scout sentinels are just your regular, good-ole fashioned sentinels. Sentinels will also now be able to have plasma cannons (although good only be armored sentinels). Also, the new sentinel box will cost 25 bucks, be all plastic, and have the options to make an armored sentinel, scout sentinel, and have all of its possible weapons.

And thats all i remember for now. Feel free to yell BS, and if you want something better than second-hand info, go to your local GW store, because they have the product briefs.

Update: another poster "confirms it"

well just got back from Bing, nah; the market brief packlet is fairly legit-looking... revolved around what to promote and prices, release dates, and such... came in last friday apparently.

all generally about 1st wave releases and any ig kits that aren't being replaced by something new. so no word in it on anything like the new stormtroopers (2nd wave), points, or special rules in-detail. just the sell-points about the new boxes and their units' new abilities.

infantry box: 25usd
no heavy weapons included... and looks like it just comes with a halved version of the old box... but 25usd instead of the old 35usd for double.
(only mentioned flamers and grenade launchers as well)
-Infantry platoons will apparently have an option to deploy as a single unit (like old conscript platoons)... meaning single unit during dawn of war deployment and most likely even a single killpoint.
-the bit about being able to make conscripts, infantry, veterans, and penal legionaires; though no pics of the sprues or alternatives instead of just the box and example cadians. so unsure how much of a deviation the alternatives will look.
-voxes allow officers to reroll the leadership tests required to issue orders
edit: almost forgot. frag grenades are standard on infantry squads now (big deal, i know)

command box: 25usd
-79 components/bits, including 2 standards to choose from (both kinda looked cadian so not really a DiY standard).
(that includes a plasma gun, meltagun, power weapon, and powerfist)
-of the 3 'issue orders' given as example; there's one that allows infantry squads an extra shot, a better cover save (later defined in another units entry as 'a better cover save when going to ground'), and better anti-tank capabilities.

battleforce: 95usd (available may 16th)
-contains a command squad, 2 infantry squads, heavy weapon squad, and sentinel
each is the new kit, except for the heavy weapon squad, which will be remaining the same as before

catachan boxes, all the similiar but catachan-y... ie, they have a command, infantry, and heavy weapons boxes

sentinel: one 25usd kit, with parts for both types, front av12 on the armored one, the open-topped one has scout and move through cover. all the rumored heavy weapons though no mention of which goes to which, just that they'll be in the kit. i don't think there was anything said about the 2ccw option rumor.

primaris psyker
hq choice
2d6 s6 assault 'lightning arc' ability and nightshroud, enemy has to pass a Ld test to shoot at the psyker's unit

psyker battle squad: overseer + 4-9 psykers,
only two powers mentioned are soulstorm and Ld penalty one, and that squad number directly effects them, not much info on how they both operate

Leman Russes, still the same kit so far
1-3 as a single heavy support choice
Lumbering Behemoth: move up to 6" and still be able to fire turret and any other capable weapons... i gather that if you stay stationary, you'll be able to fire everything including ordinance.

commissars are command and infantry squad upgrades, they bestow stubborn on given squad, they still execute leaders who fail to pass Ld tests.

the 5 ratlings are 20usd in one blister. they have stealth and infiltrate. (some random mention about having 'snacks' too)

regimental advisors: 17usd for all 3 in one blister
master of the fleet: -1 to enemy reserve rolls
astropath: +1 to your own reserve rolls
'ordinance guy': s9 ap3 ordinance shot with unlimited range if he doesn't move that turn

valkyrie: 58usd
1-3 as a single fast attack choice; no mention of the vendetta variant or valkyries as dedicated transport in the packlet (though since stormtroopers aren't included in the packlet either, that's most likely why)
embarked models may deep strike anywhere along the valkyries movement with a dangerous terrain test (it didn't just say disembark, so unsure if there will be a DS scatter involved)
comes with the new GW plastic flier base

Creed: (only special character mentioned) uses the same model
he'll take the place of officer and something-something (don't remember but i assume standard bearer) in a current command squad.
he can issue up to 4 orders per turn, including a unique order that bestows fearless and furious charge on a unit.
he allows one unit to gain scout (in a similiar fashion to Cato Sicarius' special rule)

I find it hilarious that my IG squads can get Stubborn, but not my SW squads.

Also in the above Warseer thread, a rumor just popped up that a vehicle with Mobile Command Vehicle (i.e. the Chimera) will allow an officer to give one additional order per turn.

**JohnHwangDD**

ubermosher wrote:Ok, there is little more grist for the rumor mill from Librarum Online via Warseer

Rules-wise, this is fine. I don't really care until I see points. We all got excited over the SM rules until we saw the points costs.

12. Armored Sentinels will be closed-topped and have front armor 12, while scout sentinels are just your regular, good-ole fashioned sentinels. Sentinels will also now be able to have plasma cannons (although good only be armored sentinels). Also, the new sentinel box will cost 25 bucks, be all plastic, and have the options to make an armored sentinel, scout sentinel, and have all of its possible weapons.

OK.

sentinel: one 25usd kit, with parts for both types, front av12 on the armored one, the open-topped one has scout and move through cover. all the rumored heavy weapons though no mention of which goes to which, just that they'll be in the kit. i don't think there was anything said about the 2ccw option rumor.

Yeah, I want a CC option!

valkyrie: 58usd

Excuse me? $58?

That should be $50. And where's the splash release / Apoc box?

**Death By Monkeys**

And it still doesn't tell me whether the LRBT squadrons are 0-1 or not or whether or not these squadrons are LRBT only or if you can run variants in them.

I wonder what happens if you've given all your IG platoons Chimeras and then you merge them into one big mega-platoon. What happens with your Chimeras then? Can you do this while your guys are inside their Chimeras? How do you deal with unit coherency - do your Chimeras have to stay 2" apart?

**H.B.M.C.**

*Lurk Mode - Off*

infantry box: 25usd
no heavy weapons included... and looks like it just comes with a halved version of the old box... but 25usd instead of the old 35usd for double.
(only mentioned flamers and grenade launchers as well)

Wow. So instead of US$35 for 20 it's US$25 for 10. That's an increase of US$7.50 per 10 Cadians and all we get for that is the rumour of a possible upgrade sprue for Hardened Vets/Penal Legion, etc.

Go and buy 20-man Guard Boxes now people. They're one of the better deals now, and they're about to go away forever and your squads are about to go up in price by $7.50 for every 10-men you buy.

*Lurk Mode - Off*

**Platuan4th**

Death By Monkeys wrote:And it still doesn't tell me whether the LRBT squadrons are 0-1 or not or whether or not these squadrons are LRBT only or if you can run variants in them.

I wonder what happens if you've given all your IG platoons Chimeras and then you merge them into one big mega-platoon. What happens with your Chimeras then? Can you do this while your guys are inside their Chimeras? How do you deal with unit coherency - do your Chimeras have to stay 2" apart?

If they merge into one unit, I'd imagine that the Chimeras would still be free to roam around and taxi other squads that they weren't purchased for. Then again, that would make sense and this is GW, so they may just become one big squadron.

**SonsOfLoki**

yay! now i know what to collect after my orks! Renegade guard

**rryannn**

The increase in price for guardsmen is absolutely unnecessary.

1 25 man platoon = 75$ w/o heavy weapons? that's a little much for a basic troop choice.

**Shattered Soul**

BrookM wrote:I swear to whatever god they pray to, the next one to shout "flight of the Valkyries" in the store upon seeing or hearing of the upcoming plastic kit is getting a tazer to the rude bits.

A little harsh there, no? I do dislike the over use of that joke though.

**Foda_Bett**

I just got off the phone with my GW rep who spent 45 mintues with the book this morning.

1) Vendetta is a valk with 3 lascannons
2) Valks are 3 per FA choice ONLY
3) S3 AP3 hellguns are real
4) Parts of the French leak have been changed since that printing of the book.
5) Orders:
"Front rank fire second rank fire!" adds an additional die to rapid fire weapons. So 3 shots at close range 2 at long. (He specifially said rapid fire weapons).
"Take 'em down!" LT can call on any unit, heavy weapons in the unit are TWIN LINKED and add plus 1 to an armor penetration rolls. (He was really happy about killing carnifexes with this)
6) Some of the things on Dakka and Warseer are real but there's a BUNCH of holes, other stuff is fake.
7) He didn't remember anything about platoon drill.
8) 55pt guard squads with frag and krak as well as "other sweet things that make them worth the points"
9) Imperial armor chimera is about right.

Preview dexes should be in at the end of this month/early next, and should come with a few metal models and the valk.

**Agamemnon2**

I'd guess the Ogryn rumors are fake then. As well as the Medusa, Hydra and Griffon.

:-)

**Scottywan82**

We'll know soon enough. The preview copies are due out 3/21

**H.B.M.C.**

With any luck the utterly redundant Eradicator, Colossus and needless Deathstrike will be removed.

Along with Psyker Squads. Seriously, Psyker Squads? WTF? Might as well call the unit "Buy more Sanctioned Psyker Blisters Please" Squads.

**Agamemnon2**

ubermosher wrote:

-the bit about being able to make conscripts, infantry, veterans, and penal legionaires; though no pics of the sprues or alternatives instead of just the box and example cadians. so unsure how much of a deviation the alternatives will look.

I'm going to guess that this simply means the same as it does right now, as in, you're able to make conscripts out of the current plastic Cadian box. The only difference is the paint scheme. No way are they giving us a new sprue in the box. If they would, we'd have pictures of it by now.

**Scottywan82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:With any luck the utterly redundant Eradicator, Colossus and needless Deathstrike will be removed.

Along with Psyker Squads. Seriously, Psyker Squads? WTF? Might as well call the unit "Buy more Sanctioned Psyker Blisters Please" Squads.

You forgot to turn your lurk mode off that time. Must have really cheesed you off.

I actually hope none of it changes, and i'm somewhat sceptical that it has. Why bother translating it into French BEFORe committing to final changes? The design team speaks English I think.

**Gestalt**

ubermosher wrote:Also in the above Warseer thread, a rumor just popped up that a vehicle with Mobile Command Vehicle (i.e. the Chimera) will allow an officer to give one additional order per turn.

How many orders do they start with? If Creed can give 4 a turn I'm guessing a normal CHQ is probably 3 and/or platoon squads are 1.

More importantly does IG get a psychic hood with the the new Primaris without having to take an inquisitor?

**foil7102**

Twin linked with +1 to armor pen? My auto-canons just got really happy.

**Rangerrob**

foil7102 wrote:Twin linked with +1 to armor pen? My auto-canons just got really happy.

Yah think? My eldar army just took one step away from my Guard army when they heard this.

**Ravajaxe**

Foda_Bett wrote:I just got off the phone with my GW rep who spent 45 mintues with the book this morning.

1) Vendetta is a valk with 3 lascannons
2) Valks are 3 per FA choice ONLY
3) S3 AP3 hellguns are real
4) Parts of the French leak have been changed since that printing of the book.
5) Orders:
"Front rank fire second rank fire!" adds an additional die to rapid fire weapons. So 3 shots at close range 2 at long. (He specifially said rapid fire weapons).
"Take 'em down!" LT can call on any unit, heavy weapons in the unit are TWIN LINKED and add plus 1 to an armor penetration rolls. (He was really happy about killing carnifexes with this)
6) Some of the things on Dakka and Warseer are real but there's a BUNCH of holes, other stuff is fake.
7) He didn't remember anything about platoon drill.

Preview dexes should be in at the end of this month/early next, and should come with a few metal models and the valk.

Thanks for this report. Thanks to ubermosher also. This is very interesting stuff.
GW stores employees don't seem very resilient to the buzz around new codexes.

Your point 4 :
French /pdf was created on 2088 december 17, so adjustments were still possible since this early date. But myabe it is just some correction of transcription / pagination mistakes. For example, according to this document, LRBT Exterminator turret has twice the rate of fire of Hydra (just a line below) : weird isn'it ? Looks like an inversion to me.

Mabe there are some unreliable residues in the forums here and there, don't bother. A lot of rules are leaking just now from pre-prints of this codex. The french PDF seems very reliable. So, two months before the release of a codex I think it is just unprecedented to have this amount of information. As an IG player, I wait for the new codex with serenity.