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I'm enjoying the greater board presence that counting as multiple models grants me. I've had games against Death Guard, Space Wolves, and Custodes that felt like actual games with neither side having an easy time of it. The points nerfs hurt a little and I've had to modify some of my lists, but overall its not bad.

I'll be taking my Knights to a tournament later this month.

Yeah? That’s cool. Big GT?

What composition are you going for? Lots of little knights or a mix?

I just seem to find that warglaives roll 1 on the Thermal Lance and then usually roll a 1 or a 2 to hit and my 135/140 unit is feeling sad

I’d almost prefer to take an all melee warglaive for 110 or 120 points to save the failure lol

I like two big knights and the rest Armigers right now. The board presence and firepower is really nice.

If you are running a good number of Warglaives, picking the custom trait to re-roll a hit per activation makes them much more reliable in both shooting and melee. It's one of the strongest traits you can get in my opinion.

I’ve been experimenting with Raven and also freeblade detachments

2 big knights and the rest little but I’m swapping out my castellan as everyone is scared to bring vehicles at the moment and I find he doesn’t pull his weight versus elite infantry and hordes in volume

Probably 1 Magaera and a Preceptor and 8 warglaives. I just find the warglaives tend to die before the make their points back is all

That and the freeblade lance can shaft you if you fail a few burden rolls. I’ve had turns that ended my game there and then

I'm scared of Crusher Stampede, so I'm going Raven Castellan and a Magaera for the tournament. Otherwise I agree that the Castellan doesn't necessarily work into a heavy invuln meta. I'm really hoping for some improved weapons when the codex comes out, along with some secondaries in categories that we don't already do well in.

Yeah. Lol I have a feeling I need to temper my expectations.

Because it feels like anything less than a 2+Sv BS/WS2 30W 5++ all phases with 4++FNP and a massive overhaul to weapon profiles on any platform not named a Magaera isn’t going to cut it

Well, I feel like the Avenger is fine'ish, and the Magaera's lightning cannon is really good. But the Thermal Cannon d6 shots and d6 damage profile just isn't good. It's very swingy and I think that it struggles to reliably kill a tank that will be a third of the points that it costs to run the Knight in the first place. I'm hoping for something like flat 3-5 shots, and D3+3+5(half range) damage. The RFBC is just bad, it probably needs to be flat 3 damage to even consider.

I think that Knights need a little more defensive stuff, they die too quickly. They also need help playing the mission, though the ObSec stuff -really- helps. Maybe stuff like the ability to use a stratagem to do an infantry action or a big knight being able to hold an objective from 6 inches instead of 3.

I need a few games but I think I'm going to try 4 big knights and a half. The new mission seems an easy score as does grind when you only have 5 models I'm not sure it will make enough of a difference but it seems an interesting list its a shame you can't include a agent of the imperium without losing the mission

Yeah? What 4 knights are you thinking of? 2 magaeras and 2 wardens?

Krast
A castigator - knight lance character, armour of the sacred ion

its a better warden and I want a knight to advance to a mid board objective

Crusader - The headsmans mark, First Knight
Crusader - Endless fury, Ion bulwalk Warlord

I want two backfield shooty knights for two objectives and pts wise the magaera is fractionally too expensive and would result in dropping the warglaive

Canis Rex
As a 4th big knight he's broken especially if your not building around armigers. The free +1ws and bs in exchange for the loss of preceptor buff is great relic fist is nice still has the preceptor keyword for the max shots strat what's not to love + sir Hector is cool. Great for supporting the castigator up front. Only Downside I need to put him in an aux detatchment as he's imperialis so costs a cp on the plus side fight when he dies strat with a 4+ws after being fully degraded isn't bad

Armiger Warglaive
Just enough pts left over (2000)

I'm considering this or SoB for the OPG GT in March depending on which missions are selected

 Ideasweasel wrote:
How goes the knighting everyone?

Played my first 2k knight only game on Sat.

Iron Bulwark valliant WL

Galant with extra attack and sanctuary

Preceptor with helm dominatus and landstrider

4 Warglaives.


It was a good fun game, I lost but that was due to poor luck with Galant (rolled snake eyes for the charge and the reroll over using strat to advance and charge) and didn't resurect him on the 4+, all in that cost me a lot of CP. I also misplayed my valliant and used flamer first which killed the squad out of range of my melta and harpoon, that would have had a big impact on the game. Preceptor with landstrider and helm dominatus was awesome force multiplier.

This was vs a 1k sons list a friend was practicing for a tourney. I lost about 95-65, but it was v close until t4.

Just as a heads up, when you choose a model to shoot you measure what weapons can shoot and they can then all shoot. You can't kill models back to deny the meltas and harpoon if they were declared at the beginning of the shooting activation.

Yes targets and los are all prefireing and all resolve simultaneously so unless you wipe the squad entirely hit their target even if it's no longer visible

Ah well my mistake, I've played VERY little in the last 2 years for obvious reasons. I'll keep that in mind for the future, thanks for the info.

I’m still holding out for 10th edition to retcon the obscuring rule

What genius thought a 2 way mirror that only one side gets the benefit from and can fire away with impunity was a good idea

Absolute muppet.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
I’m still holding out for 10th edition to retcon the obscuring rule

What genius thought a 2 way mirror that only one side gets the benefit from and can fire away with impunity was a good idea

Absolute muppet.

Probably the same muppet who somehow thinks a giant walking target has a massive advantage in this game just because it has T8 and 24 wounds, or maybe the TITANIC keyword is some kind of sign that the unit is OP. The problem is, the game has become so lethal that Knights just aren't durable enough for their points, for the most part. Personally I think Knights should at least get light cover in cases where someone is shooting through a ruin at them. Give them at least some meaningful interaction with terrain.

It was an interesting decision by GW to bump up the points cost of the Magaera. What they really should have done was drop the cost of the Crusader by about the same amount in order to make it more of a decision. Knights aren't exactly dominating the meta right now; they didn't need nerfs.

GW has always struggled with titanic models.

Played a sisters friend last night. (Sisters aren’t even top tier)

He turns off my Invulnerable saves fight last and drops 2 knights.

I feel like in a lot of games you are up against a ticking clock to try and do something meaningful before you run out of assets. Your opponent has all the time in the world because they can hide and trade tiny cheap units to grab objectives.

Lots of work to be done to make knights feel like they fit this edition. But having the same statline as a space marine needs to change. When you whiff with a 500 point unit cause it missed its shots it’s just maddening. Then you have custodes who hit on 2’s rerolling everything and their mother the jealousy kicks in.

They somehow are killier, more tanky and better than units 3x their cost. I had Trajan solo a Magaera easily and he still had a fight on death if he messed up. What’s our Trajan equivalent I want to be able to solo things 1500 pts worth lol (I don’t really but it’s still bs)

I wonder if we will get a codex this or next year but maybe we should email them with ideas and explain what would or won’t work

As both a sisters and a knight player

He can only turn off your Invuls in melee and only in one location and only once per game.

knights don't normally have a melee Inv to turn off.

The only units that melee pummel knights are repentia and they are tissue paper in terms of survivability

Spread your knights more and prioritise them

Admittedly it was a tough mission and I had to force the middle or he’d win on primaries. Very heavy terrain and getting targets to shoot was easier says than done

He could just trade units but maybe making the push T3 would have been smarter

I have had the most success using my speed to avoid direct engagements for the first couple turns, using my firepower to remove key threats before pushing into the board later turns. This tactic is situational to what army I am facing though. Against Tau I am guessing that the full-court blitz is going to be the only way to succeed. At least they lost the Overwatch that made that a death sentence in 8th edition.

I'm actually looking at a Lancer, possibly going house Terryn, to really make that threat stick.

I wholeheartedly agree. Charging in guns blazing is a recipe for disaster. Knights really suck on the receiving end of a charge, and there's almost always a counter-charge threat. My local group hates my Armigers because their speed lets them dictate engagements. First turn with Benediction of the Omnissiah softens them up, second turn with Invocation of Machine Vengeance seals the deal.

We've got a Tau player in our group, but I just haven't had the opportunity against him. I'm hoping that with sufficient terrain, I can work around his Broadsides since they're slow. We'll see how I get on, but I've got some plans. I'll let you know.

Since the world and his wife can drop the big guys just by sneezing at them I’ve decided to try threat saturation and just take 14 little ones

Anyone got any suggested changes on the below?


++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [103 PL, 2,000pts, 12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Household Choice: House <Custom>, Household Tradition: Glorified History, Household Tradition: Hounds of War, Household Traditions (Engine War), Questor Mechanicus

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [24 PL, 465pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, 405pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, 405pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, 405pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber

Knight Moiraxes [16 PL, 320pts]
. Knight Moirax: 2x Lightning Lock
. Knight Moirax: Character (Knight Lance), Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
. . Graviton Pulsar
. . Siege Claw w/ Rad-Cleanser

++ Total: [103 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

That's a solid list. Those are the Warlord Trait and Relic I would take with a list like this, no question. With that many heavy stubbers it might be worth considering the Cognis Stubber stratagem, especially since you'll start with 12 CP. That many Warglaives really demand reroll the hit once per activation, so Glorified History really helps.

I think that the problem will be that your individual power is spread out, and you may lose melee fights even with 9 Warglaives. Chaos people who have tried similar lists found themselves losing enough Armigers each turn that they were eventually tabled and had to get their points early. They are also vulnerable to move-blocking, especially from infiltrating or super-fast units like Serberys Raiders/GSC bikers.

It just feels like it wants a preceptor

Cool

Thanks for the feedback

I had a match against Tau. He likes to play a very aggressive Firewarrior-and-Crisis heavy list with only 3 Broadsides. That's not actually unusual from what I've seen from tournament reports. They're too busy spending points on Crisis Suits to have room for lots of Broadsides.

Approximate Tau list:My list:We played Recover the Relics, which has 6 objectives and scores 4 VP for holding 1, 2, and more. The new progressive scoring is 1 VP per unit destroyed each turn, up to 3. This mission also has a funny caveat that you only get your normal CP-per-turn if you control one of 4 center objectives, and you get an extra if you control the one in the opponent's deployment. I went with simple secondaries: Engage on All Fronts, No Prisoners, and Raise Banners. He went with Engage on All Fronts, No Prisoners, and Bring It Down.

Since I have more units, I can wait to deploy my Infiltrators and put both on my right no-man's-land objective, which is harder for him to reach. He gets first turn and I measure out the distances to plan my Raiders' movement. I move them 15" and use both to further protect my right Infiltrators by making it hard to place his Suits or Devilfish within 24". He goes Mont'ka and makes his big push up the board. The Broadsides knock out the Fusilave, the Raiders die, some of the Infiltrators die, and one of the Warglaives gets caught by the Crisis suits. There's a sprinkling of wounds elsewhere; I lose about a quarter of my army. He's on all the objectives on his half of the board and is moving to my unattended left objective.

I had chose Invocation of Machine Vengeance (+1D6 drop the lowest on Advance and Charge) to make sure I could punch back in the midfield. I raised banners on my two objectives and used Circuitous Assassins on 3 Infiltrators to help Engage next turn. My Dunecrawlers leapt into the midboard 11" and picked off the drones. I knocked out 2 Devilfish and killed some Breachers. Then I got all my Knights into close combat after spending 4 CP on Full Tilt for the Crusader, a re-roll and Pack Hunters. The Crusader moved 27", and the Armigers moved about 24" each. I tagged a Crisis team and a commander, and killed both.

At the top of turn 2, he's controlling 4 objectives and my Knights and tanks are out in the middle of the board. He kills all the Armigers and sprinkles some wounds on my other vehicles. At this point he's got both objectives on my left flank and his objective on my right.

I can finally target his Broadsides since they moved out to shoot my Armigers. I bring my guns to bear with Benediction of the Omnissiah, taking the unit with both Dunecrawlers and the Knight. I can't quite catch his other Crisis suits, so I settle for charging disembarked Breachers with my Knight, which kills them. At this point we're both holding our halves of the table, but my 3 Infiltrators arrived on his board edge and are threatening to contest his home objective. I also used Circuitous Assassins on the other unit of ~5 Infiltrators, since I can deploy them directly on his home objective if he moves.

Top of turn 3, he's got a couple Breachers on my far left, a full Devilfish on my the right, and his Crisis suits and Commander on his home objective. I've got 5 Vanguard on my home, 10 on my right, and my Knight on my left. My two Dunecrawlers are still wandering around the middle. He's at ~50VP and running out of resources to get more. My Knight is still at ~20 wounds, so it just doesn't seem like he'll be able to finish it off, and he's got to stop my Infiltrators too. The suits kill the Infiltrators with Airbursts and takes pot shots at the Knight. He also disembarks his Breachers and makes a play for my right objective. The Breachers kill several Vanguard and make the charge with a re-roll to take the objective from me.

On my turn 3, I have to bring the Dunecrawlers over to kill the contesting Breachers. My Knight moves up to finish off the other Breacher squad and frags the lone Devilfish holding the far right objective. My last Infiltrators come down on the left objective after my Knight moved from it, and they raise the banners on it.

His only units left are the Crisis suits and Commander, and he's only holding his home objective. We play out the fourth round quickly and I table him on turn 5 by finishing his suits with my Knight.

He scored 11 on No Prisoners, 10 on Bring It Down, 6 on Engage and 34 on primary, plus 10 painted, for 71. I scored 15 on No Prisoners, 15 on Banners, 12 on Engage, and 48 on Primary, plus 10 painted, for 100. I actually think Knights are going to be okay specifically because Tau aren't going to bring multiple Hammerheads to handle them, since those tanks are a liability otherwise. Crisis Suits and Broadsides don't quite handle Knights efficiently if you trade intelligently.

Hi folks

Rules query if I may. I’ve made a fun Hawkshroud list that’s just a silly one.

Valiant
8 warglaives
2 helverins

The idea being the valiant babysits a key objective or 2 behind a couple of warglaives sat on an objective. He uses his cheeky staunch allies strat as an anti charge deterrent.

The stratagem repulsing conflagration has me pondering things

Can I use staunch allies if a charge is coming in from behind cover. So I won’t be able to shoot at them but I can use the super heroic intervention ability to shuffle in to help.

And the second question is using both stratagems together am I able to do so if the charging unit is targeting a warglaive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also nice write up dark

Thank you. To answer your questions: yes. You know, a Lewis Elmes actually pulled third place at a the Twisted Warp major running two Valiants. I still think Valiants are hot garbage, so this dude knows a lot of stuff that I don't.

The Valiant is indeed terrible, that’s kind of why I picked it. But to take 2 is a level of silly that not even I can comprehend, haha that guys a legend