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Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem when you have an ensemble cast that has too much overlap for skillsets. I feel it's largely for budgetary reasons since they've already worked their VFX teams to the bone.
AduroT wrote: From what I’ve heard that vfx team is outright abused.
Wouldn't surprise me. In their attempts to pump out the content to stretch out people's subscriptions to D+, they've definitely given them no time to do anything but have deadline after deadline.
AduroT wrote: From what I’ve heard that vfx team is outright abused.
Which VFX team? Most of these productions use multiple teams, usually stemming from one larger company contracted to do the work who then go on to sub-contract to many others.
I finally got around to Love & Thunder and.... definitely not the strongest MCU outing. The first hour of the film really didn't work for me at all. Even after coming to enjoy some of the poorly timed jokes of Ragnarok, this one really lacks chemistry in its opening act. While it was always clear the Guardians were going to be a quick cameo, the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here. Sif's scene really kills Gor's otherwise excellent setup and the jilted weapons gets taken way too far. All in all, I had a solid hour of the movie not working for me at all.
The second half worked better. Basically when they reach Zeus things greatly improved. Bale did a fantastic job and really deserved significantly more screen time. He's creepy, the powers look really cool, he's well motivated and his ultimate fate ties together the movie's themes really well. He does a great job holding the film together despite feeling like he's in the wrong movie altogether.
That said, the Thor's work better as the movie goes on. I don't think either of them get the strongest material to work with, but Portman eventually works as the awkward but eager newbie; I just think its a shame that the movie can't quite settle on what drives her, leaving the rather heartbreaking arc of acceptance kind of unfocused.
So... yeah. Mixed bag at best. I don't hate it, but mostly a miss for me. I feel like the script really suffers trying to filter things through Thor's POV and would have really benefitted from giving Portman more focus, particularly early on. The back half did a good job salvaging things, but a bit of a flop for me to be honest.
I feel like there's two movies fighting for dominance. There's the quite sombre movie about duty and fate and acceptance and the oh so popular Marvel theme of the responsibility of power, and then there's a knockabout comedy with a level of humour barely above poop jokes.
Feels a little like Waititi is a one trick pony at this point, and can't even perform that trick consistently well.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
Gert wrote: Thunderbolts seem a bit rubbish no? Like the lineup is spy x2, supersoldier x3, weird cyborg thing, and one member with any sort of variant superpower. Even the original lineup still had a majority of villains with a variety of abilities and skills but this lot is just meh.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem when you have an ensemble cast that has too much overlap for skillsets. I feel it's largely for budgetary reasons since they've already worked their VFX teams to the bone.
They have overlapping skill sets, but not overlapping personalities. I’m hoping the show is mostly them bouncing off each other while trying to work together. The lower the stakes, the better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/13 17:50:02
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I saw a discussion in which someone mentioned something I agree with with Love and Thunders.
The tonal shift is because a story being told to us by Korg.
Love and Thunder isn't a movie we are watching in real time for the most part. It's a story Korg is telling children. Thats why it opens with Korgs narration and has goofy things like Thor jumping on Stormbreaker like a broomstick and flying off.
You will notice that the goofy tones down a lot and Thor becomes more like his other movie appearances when Korg is in the room and he isn't telling the story second hand (Being in the God Head to meet Zeus). The rest of the time when Korg isn't around he is relaying events second hand and the campy goofiness ramps up as he relays events that he didn't witness.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I mean.... kind of? Korg isn't around for either of the big fights with Gor and they are largely played pretty straight. It's not a bad take, but its not applied with enough consistency to work the way that it does for something like the Princess Bride. I do suspect that's the intention in a lot of scenes, but it doesn't feel like the whole movie was filmed around the idea even if it might have been written that way.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I suspect the proof will be in the pudding. I mean, what are they to be used for? What’s their preferred mission profile etc?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
LunarSol wrote: I mean.... kind of? Korg isn't around for either of the big fights with Gor and they are largely played pretty straight. It's not a bad take, but its not applied with enough consistency to work the way that it does for something like the Princess Bride. I do suspect that's the intention in a lot of scenes, but it doesn't feel like the whole movie was filmed around the idea even if it might have been written that way.
Yeah I agree, though that could be Korg having a sense of gravitas in his story telling and knowing when the important dramatic moments are. But the movie is (Outside of Gorr's origin which is handled entirely seriously) book ended with Korg narrating and the end Narration is so far in the future that he has regrown his body and met Doug. So at some point after that he gathers round the children and tell them the "Tale of the Space Viking". Which is why, especially the beginning bits with the Guardians and him losing weight, and all his friends dying are glossed over so quickly and goofily. It's all preamble to the story of him and Jane and Gorr leading to Love and Thunder. It even explains why Gorr doesn't get as much presence as he would have in a different kind of movie. Because the story isn't really about him. So the rest of what he does is just kind of... not told.
I am not defending this as good or bad. I am just saying that this is probably what it actually is. And a re-watch with that context gives it a certain context that may be more or less to anyones liking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/13 20:13:31
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It really depends on the writing, and even the concept. If they have to go undercover as a rockband to infiltrate Zemo’s hypnotic Nu Metal syndicate…awesome. If it’s just Black Widow 2, no thanks.
It's just disappointing when there have been so many incarnations of the Thunderbolts as villains, anti-heroes, and heroes all of which have included a good roster of powers and now it's all basically the same person with maybe a different philosophical outlook.
Like I'm not even a big Marvel fan but I saw the roster and was just like "?".
I’m a fan of the MCU, but I don’t see that much of an issue with them all having the same powers and not a on eclectic group of complimentary powers. So long as the focus isn’t strictly punch-fights, their personalities and this approaches to problem solving should be different enough to be entertaining.
I mean, in DBZ they pretty much all have the same powers with a few minor variations, and that series was great all the way to the end of the Cell Saga. As long as the story and characters are interesting, it shouldn’t be an issue.
The approach to problem solving is: everyone punches, guns don't work. Ghost goes and solves it. Twist is, she can't at the end, so <whoever has a show next> does.
As the oldest (in non-frozen years), Russian Steve Rogers dies along the way. Is very sad. Possible twist is he actually doesn't, and later, imitation Steve Rogers dies instead. Dramatic scene with Sam & Bucky in the end credits where they mourn not working with the guy, for bonus pathos.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/09/13 22:41:54
This Thunderbolts lineup reminds me of Netflix's Defenders. They also were a team comprised of people with similar power sets/fighting styles, so... I'm sure Thunderbolts will be great....
One of the crimes of Love & Thunder was wasting Gorr. He has that fine introduction and then doesn't show up again for 40ish minutes and we're told he has been doing awful things instead of seeing them.
Telling not showing is poor visual storytelling. Imagine CA: Winter Soldier where we are just told Bucky outran Cap and attacked Nick Fury but didn't get to see any of it.
Such a waste.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
LunarSol wrote: ... the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here.
Along with everything that made Thor Thor being absent as well.
Seriously, this movie just flat out ignores 6 films worth of character development. Hell, I'd even go so far as to call it a regression of the character.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/14 04:37:13
LunarSol wrote: ... the dynamic that made them so good with Thor in Infinity War/Endgame is shockingly absent here.
Along with everything that made Thor Thor being absent as well.
Seriously, this movie just flat out ignores 6 films worth of character development. Hell, I'd even go so far as to call it a regression of the character.
It's really sad that I currently enjoy the MCU most from Honest Trailer and Pitch Meeting videos than anything else they've put out in the post-Endgame era besides maybe the Spider Man movie.
We all enjoyed Love and Thunder. Might help that none of us are very invested in his character growth. A fun, mid-tier MCU movie for us.
And we’re still enjoying the MCU, so maybe it’s more “for us”. I’d like to keep the heavy or dark MCU movies to a minimum, not least so they don’t lose their impact. Another Eternals-Black Widow pair in one year and we might as well be watching the DCEU.
I just keep wondering why posters who raved about the Snyder Cut keep popping up to say the MCU has lost its way…..
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
On top of that, we know from Thrones that the wolves were backseated because they cost a fortune, no reason to think those goats were any cheaper.
So not only did he take what I'll charitably call a stale joke and hit people over the head with it, he likely spent a fortune doing it.
Talking of Gunn, did anyone else see the coverage a little while ago? He was apparently asked about his pet hates and one of his picks was "unprepared directors" and while no names were named, consensus seems to be shade was being thrown Waititi's direction.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I did laugh when they introduced the screaming goats. I had stopped laughing at them well before they made their final appearance. Hopefully with no more Taika we also get no more Korg.
