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Lormax wrote:Everybody fears the WS3, Str4 charge

Anybody sitting in a stationary vehicle does

I am really not happy about the razorbacks getting twin linked assault cannons.

Looks like i need to wait for 6th ed to play blood angels again.

(yes, i understand that is overly dramatic)

Whats wrong with it? They aren't fast vehicles, something that the Baal has over a LOT of tanks out there.

Ultimately a Predator with 2 assault cannons each has got plenty going for it.

The baal does get OCE and AR 13 for 25 pnts.. That isn't too bad but the RB gets to carry troops.

blood angel wrote:I am really not happy about the razorbacks getting twin linked assault cannons.

Looks like i need to wait for 6th ed to play blood angels again.

(yes, i understand that is overly dramatic)

As an IG and Eldar player, I'm not really happy about how cheap the Rhinos, Razorbacks, & Drop Pods have gotten. OTOH, when Chimeras get down to 45 pts (including weapons), and Wave Serpents are 75 pts, I guess I'll be OK with it.

Actually, I'm not sure that I prefer C: SM over C: BA. BA has Scoring 5-man Assault Marines with 2 Plasma; SM has non-Scoring 10-man Assault Marines for 2 Plasma (or Flamers). And compare Tactical Squads w/ Las & Plas:

10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

where did the link go?
was it taken down?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

any information about the link(of the website where the codex is), i cant seem to find it anymore in this thread. if anyone still has it can they repost it
or is it not suppose to be up
any answers regarding this would be much appreciated(i would really like to know the specifics of the librarians powers)

Lemartes wrote:CSM dex overall is a great dex and I think will still allow more flexibility than the new marine dex. D-Princes for the points are a great option and still one of the best HQ choices in all of 5th.

You should be dragged out into the street and shot. The CSM codex is not great.

That is all.

Bignutter wrote:Having read through it all (the actual book) i'd say the marine codex is pretty balanced

sure they have lots of toys- lots of VERY destructive stuff- but it all comes at a cost- just like the other codecies

I wouldn't say it was overpowered in any one aspect- as the marines are jack of all trades- but will get beaten in a particular aspect of the game by one of the other armies...

I agree with Big. Having looked at the codex, I don't think anything's super unbalanced. It does annoy me a little bit that some of the interesting features of Chaos 4th that got taken away in Chaos 5th haven been given to the Loyalists.

Had to pull the pics, sorry guys and gals. Heard there's a version of them floating around, though I didn't make it.

On the other hand, I guess I can answer pretty definitively just about any question there is about the codex. After all that, I've practically memorized the book.

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

I almost cried when I read that. Maybe someday they'll release a Traitor Legions codex. Heh. Sure. About the same time my beloved Dark Eldar get an update that doesn't blow.

Asmodeus wrote:

Lemartes wrote:CSM dex overall is a great dex and I think will still allow more flexibility than the new marine dex. D-Princes for the points are a great option and still one of the best HQ choices in all of 5th.

You should be dragged out into the street and shot. The CSM codex is not great.

That is all.

Ultimately an army with 2 Fzorgle Princes each has got plenty going for it.

mothman_451 wrote:where did the link go?
was it taken down?

Of *course* it got taken down... :S

derek wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

Looking at "bare" squads is pointless, as nobody takes either without Las / Plas, and even GW knows it, which is why they're pushing so hard for 10-man squads with "free" equipment.

The DC Marine can be costed a few different ways, but yeah, he's fairly worth at least 30 pts, and could be argued at 35 pts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

derek wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

Looking at "bare" squads is pointless, as nobody takes either without Las / Plas, and even GW knows it, which is why they're pushing so hard for 10-man squads with "free" equipment.

The DC Marine can be costed a few different ways, but yeah, he's fairly worth at least 30 pts, and could be argued at 35 pts.

You missed the point, we weren't looking at the cost of a bare squad, only using it as a reference of cost for their "free" Death Company marine. I doubt that the price of a Plasma Gun and Lascannon was used in their thought process to price Death Company, especially when Dark Angels spend the same ammount of points for those weapons without the benefit of a Death Company.

on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Regwon wrote:on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

shame they didn't give dreadnaughts cyclone missle launchers. four krak missle a turn would have been fun.

skkipper wrote:shame they didn't give dreadnaughts cyclone missle launchers. four krak missle a turn would have been fun.

Tell that to the marines who's cyclone's only spit out one missile.

Danny Internets wrote:

Regwon wrote:on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

Not to mention they get these crazy cover saves nowadays...

Danny Internets wrote:Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

45 Lootas maybe? That will do it barring cover saves.

45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

I just took 12 AV 11 vehicles to the LVGT - and they did remarkably well. Oddly enough, even though my army had 23 potential Kill Points, my biggest wins were both of the KP missions.

stjohn70 wrote:45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

Ahh, fair enough. That said they can very reliably kill those razorbacks by turn 2. Or kill 3 even with cover.

double post

stjohn70 wrote:45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

I just took 12 AV 11 vehicles to the LVGT - and they did remarkably well. Oddly enough, even though my army had 23 potential Kill Points, my biggest wins were both of the KP missions.

Is your list posted somewhere?

I'd like to see it, please!

My Army List

Essentially that is what I took. Except that I dropped all the Extra Armour off the vehicles and grabbed a 5 man Inq StormTrooper squad with 2 flamers to add to it for a 3rd scoring unit.

Redundant.

Too slow... by three seconds