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Kilkrazy wrote:

Personally I don't rate GW's figures as particularly good on detail, considering how large they are compared to standard 28mm.

Have to agree with you, the lack of details for one and also the inferior miniature design is even more noticeable when you collect other stuff... theres more detail in say a 28mm infinity mini than on a 50mm or more GW mini... and lets not even go to old rackham metals... The difference is really big yet the prices are not.
I really hpe this shifting to resin means more quality, detail and better design... and not meshed melting detail or quality control issues.

NAVARRO wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:They also seem to have no problem making things out of medical or other hazardous waste and selling them for kids. That's the best reason not to buy from China, not because you are worried about their worker's rights. They don't worry about your health, why worry if they get enough vacation days?

What the hellllll! Its not vacations days... its children chained, beaten up, starving to death working everyday etc...
People and their own bellybuttons

I personally welcome more child labor. It keeps prices down, controls uppity unions in this country but more importantly those little fingers are more adept at dealing with small parts. There are so many children in China that if you lose one or two in indistrial accidents that picking up a few replacements is quite easy. Seems like a total win all round to me.

fullheadofhair wrote:

I personally welcome more child labor. It keeps prices down, controls uppity unions in this country but more importantly those little fingers are more adept at dealing with small parts. There are so many children in China that if you lose one or two in indistrial accidents that picking up a few replacements is quite easy. Seems like a total win all round to me.

I hope it's a joke (a bad joke).

RUNE wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

I personally welcome more child labor. It keeps prices down, controls uppity unions in this country but more importantly those little fingers are more adept at dealing with small parts. There are so many children in China that if you lose one or two in indistrial accidents that picking up a few replacements is quite easy. Seems like a total win all round to me.

I hope it's a joke (a bad joke).

Satire, my friend, satire. There is a big difference between a joke and satire.

Edit. Ups, sorry, double comment.

OT!

mmm... Asian girls.... Sorry, what did it say?

Friends we must not speak about the ethical implications of our hobby because the moderators feel the need to use misogyny in expressing their displeasure in such discussions.

Having bought several Lightnings from Forgeworld, which is a more-than-$100 model, and having seen the horrendous lack of quality in mold lines from poor fits and huge globs of excess resin that completley obscure the surrounding details and need to be, literally, sliced from the model, I shudder at the thought of significant GW production under similar processes and QA.

Say what you will about GW but they are very good about replacing defective items. I doubt they would go with a substandard process and deal with the constant complaints and replacements it would entail.

TheHammer wrote:Friends we must not speak about the ethical implications of our hobby because the moderators feel the need to use misogyny in expressing their displeasure in such discussions.

Or its a very clever reference to child labour in Asia, used as a redirection tool...

On topic: So the problem with resin is not the resin itself, but the quality of the casting...which comes down to terrible quality control and a lack of respect for the customer.

mikhaila wrote:... Look at places like 'Dragon Painting Service'. Go into their feedback and look at what they sell. Thousands of chaos trolls, maiden guard, and other metal models. Painting them disguises the bootleg nature, but if you wanted 200 maiden guard, they'd have no problem running some off and shipping them out.

Considering the prices that they charge, I am not totally convinced of their unofficial nature.

sourclams wrote:Having bought several Lightnings from Forgeworld, which is a more-than-$100 model, and having seen the horrendous lack of quality in mold lines from poor fits and huge globs of excess resin that completley obscure the surrounding details and need to be, literally, sliced from the model, I shudder at the thought of significant GW production under similar processes and QA.

Having bought plenty of FW stuff and GW plastics I say that my experience with their quality is about the same. For the most part its good though GW needs to ploish up their Rhino mold as several of my newer Rhino chassis' don't fit together well anymore. I've bought the FW Keeper of Secrets ( a very fine model though terribly delicate especially when bull rushed by cats), a bunch of Raven Guard SM upgrade kits, several doors for Rhinos and Land Raiders, as well as 2 Repressors for my Sisters. They have all been good quality. I guess it just depends on what you get. certainly there is a bit of flashing and soem mold lines that need to be trimmed but thats true of every plastic GW model I have bought to date as well as plenty of the metal ones. Actually those older metals are crappy shape.

OK, I've put a spin-off thread on the ethics of buying wargames and minis, here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/358478.page

If you want to talk about evil Chinese workers poisoning your children's fluffy rabbits, though, please start an entirely different thread somewhere else!

I doubt GWs resin will be as potentially fail as forge worlds is. I mean if you buy in a store you can SEE the model in question in its blister usually, so you just choose the best looking one!

I hate metal personally. Its sharp, has fethloads of flash, is almost impossible to cut, its just horrible!

Wouldnt we be able to pose resin?

You could pose resin if the models were designed to be posed.

The same as with polystyrene or metal.

Metal cuts just like plastic. You can even cut it with a regular hobby knife using an older blade if you're extra paranoid. I really don't understand that complaint. I haven't liked resin whenever I've messed with it but I'm curious to see what kind they'd use. I already basically never buy direct if at all so it won't really affect me tons.

Jaon wrote:I doubt GWs resin will be as potentially fail as forge worlds is. I mean if you buy in a store you can SEE the model in question in its blister usually, so you just choose the best looking one!

I hate metal personally. Its sharp, has fethloads of flash, is almost impossible to cut, its just horrible!

Wouldnt we be able to pose resin?

Not every company has flash on their metals, some have sooooooo tiny mould lines that you have to look very carefully just to find them... so its more a casting problem and quality control issue than the actual material.

my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child(like my little brother)gets his new kit he wants to assemble it. ok youve saidresin can be strong but what about the weaker stuff. and those tiny little fiddly bits like staffs and the such like. i mean lets face it a child isnt going to be to gentle are they. they arnt going to be to delicate. and resin from what i can tell is quite hard to repair. why cant gw just move to plastic kits for blisters instead as this would simplify things alot as well as meaning that kits were easyer to convert and repair. also plastic glue would be all that you really needed thus making the hobby safer for smaller children as superglue can be extremly dangerous.
i dont want to sound like im going on but even i can see the problems here and im only 16+2/3.

Again, some resins behave just like plastic and the thin parts bend instead of breaking...

It should be clear to all that... metal has differentt degrees of elasticity and resistance, and so does plastics ( remember the GW plastic batch that would break very easy instead of bending?) and ultimately also resins... some are fragile and some are resistant...

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

I would be sad to see metal models go. They have been the preferred material for toy soldiers for hundreds of years.

Not to drum up the ethics discussion again, but would a move to resin be worse for the environment as the miniatures could not be recycled as easily? Metal models can be stripped and thus reused. Further, they can be melted down and recast. Badly painted resin models would probably just be scrapped. It is my understanding that resin is ground up and used as filler. Thus, its ability to be recycled is limited.

you can strip resin models. not any more of a hassle. takes some different chemicals, for instance that acetone some folks us to strip their metal minis wouldnt be a good choice for resin.
As far as recycling, you coul grind it and use it as a filler material for future resin casts.

Fun fact from a Warseer thread:

rtmonkeyboy wrote:My local store Manager told me yesterday that Forgeworld products would no longer be allowed to be made in store, in some stores not even painted!

The reasons given were thus:

1. Forgeworld were a "separate" and "competing" company!

2. The kits they produce were "too complicated" for younger gamers?

3. They weren't core product!

4. The dust from sanding was hazardous!

Guess GW blisters will be banned from this store as well quite soon

People were seriously assembling FW models in stores, doing the sanding and everything?

What inconsiderate twerps.

The "separate and competing company" part is odd though. They are supposedly a separate company, but more for business purposes.

Kroothawk wrote:Fun fact from a Warseer thread:

rtmonkeyboy wrote:My local store Manager told me yesterday that Forgeworld products would no longer be allowed to be made in store, in some stores not even painted!

The reasons given were thus:

1. Forgeworld were a "separate" and "competing" company!

2. The kits they produce were "too complicated" for younger gamers?

3. They weren't core product!

4. The dust from sanding was hazardous!

Guess GW blisters will be banned from this store as well quite soon

Oh thats smart, really smart... next time you go to a GW store they will only sell starters... and you have to fill a 40page form like a good boy...

Scottywan82 wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

"Parental Supervision" means "Parental Supervision."
: )

Re: Dragon Painting Service
I've got buddies who use them almost exclusively. I can tell you that nothing they sell LOOKS pirated. All the metals and all the plastics look genuine.
I'm not defending them or denying that they might be making their own. I'm just saying that, if they're casting their own copies of ANYTHING, they're doing a darned fine job.

I'm more inclined to believe they've got an account with GW somehow, and get everything @ wholesale, though.

Eric

I also can vouch for the differences in types of resin. I have a few Aberration Prime models from Rackham which are resin. The large arm-blades on those bend kinda like rubber (though not quite that elastic) rather than snapping even though the thickest point is less than 1/8" thick, down to less than 1/16" at the thinnest point. The same model done with FW resin? Yeah, that blade would snap like a twig. So let s see what they do before we condemn this change, eh?

Nothing I've ever gotten from FW was good quality. Resin is way more work, way more fragile, and requires a mask if you are sanding it (and you WILL be sanding it). I have resin models from 5 or 6 different companies, and they all suck compared to good plastics.

Metal models shed paint, and shatter when dropped (arms, legs, etc.). Plastic bounces. Gimme plastic. Metal second. Resin...ugh.