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MagickalMemories wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

"Parental Supervision" means "Parental Supervision."
: )

Re: Dragon Painting Service
I've got buddies who use them almost exclusively. I can tell you that nothing they sell LOOKS pirated. All the metals and all the plastics look genuine.
I'm not defending them or denying that they might be making their own. I'm just saying that, if they're casting their own copies of ANYTHING, they're doing a darned fine job.

I'm more inclined to believe they've got an account with GW somehow, and get everything @ wholesale, though.

Eric

In the UK it used to be called making "foreigners" when factory workers used the facilities to make stuff for themselves.

I am not saying anything against Dragon.

The key point about organised piracy in China and other countries is they are using the same moulds and equipment to make rip-off models. In other words, the same factory that does an official run just runs off an extra xxx,000 copies on their own account. It is sometimes even the same management who do it. The quality will be exactly the same as the official stuff.

This isn't exclusively a Chinese thing of course.

I thought you were talking on a smaller scale.
I gotcha.

Eric

TheHammer wrote:Say what you will about GW but they are very good about replacing defective items. I doubt they would go with a substandard process and deal with the constant complaints and replacements it would entail.

I just called last week to have a replacement model sent because it was shipped with 2 of the left side pieces but not the right side (venomthrope), and the (quite rude) lady on the phone wouldn't ship it to my house, instead she sent it to my "local" GW retail shop, 1.5 hours away.

I've been sending them emails asking them to please send it to my home, but I have had no response.

I've got a feeling GW's replacement policy is changing.

minionboy wrote:I've got a feeling GW's replacement policy is changing.

Well it can't. Any situation where an item sold to you is 'not fit for purpose', ie miscast or with parts missing, entitles you to a full refund or replacement. That's the law.

If they insisted on sending a replacement to a shop an hour and a half away I'd make a formal complaint.

Consumer law in the USA is much weaker than in the UK.

Nonetheless, a polite complaint to customer services is certainly in order and might change the decision about where to send the part.

minionboy wrote:

TheHammer wrote:Say what you will about GW but they are very good about replacing defective items. I doubt they would go with a substandard process and deal with the constant complaints and replacements it would entail.

I just called last week to have a replacement model sent because it was shipped with 2 of the left side pieces but not the right side (venomthrope), and the (quite rude) lady on the phone wouldn't ship it to my house, instead she sent it to my "local" GW retail shop, 1.5 hours away.

I've been sending them emails asking them to please send it to my home, but I have had no response.

I've got a feeling GW's replacement policy is changing.

It depends a lot on who you end up talking to on the phone. Sometimes they'll ask you to send back the models, but a lot of the time they won't. I had things shipped to me about 4 months ago from GW for replacement parts.

Scottywan82 wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

That's true, but in real terms GWs games have always been played by kids younger than 12. I would hazard a guess that a good number of the posters on this board started at a younger age.

They made all that effort to switch to white metal I think for that reason, the metal type was far more of an issue for children younger than 12, as well as the big expansion into the US market that was happening at the time.

Pacific wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

That's true, but in real terms GWs games have always been played by kids younger than 12. I would hazard a guess that a good number of the posters on this board started at a younger age.

They made all that effort to switch to white metal I think for that reason, the metal type was far more of an issue for children younger than 12, as well as the big expansion into the US market that was happening at the time.

Quite true. I started when the metal models were lead. Pretty sure in Australia it said 16 and up back then too. I was 9.

-Loki- wrote:

Pacific wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:my only worry is in the fragility of the models.
when a little child<snip>.

"Little children" should not be assembling these models.

Got to back this up, actually. It's says 12 and up for a reason.

That's true, but in real terms GWs games have always been played by kids younger than 12. I would hazard a guess that a good number of the posters on this board started at a younger age.

They made all that effort to switch to white metal I think for that reason, the metal type was far more of an issue for children younger than 12, as well as the big expansion into the US market that was happening at the time.

Quite true. I started when the metal models were lead. Pretty sure in Australia it said 16 and up back then too. I was 9.

Oh, I never said should not play. My son is getting an army for his 9th birthday next week. But I'd fear for the safety of all around if I let him loose with a hobby knife...

Pacific wrote:

That's true, but in real terms GWs games have always been played by kids younger than 12. I would hazard a guess that a good number of the posters on this board started at a younger age.

I hear this said here and on other forums quite a bit and I've always wondered about it. I've been playing since 2nd edition ( I was 19 at the time) and I've never met a 40K player younger than 16 or 17. Most were college age or older. I feel like I've seen a pretty large sampling too, playing at stores across the state off and on for almost 15 years and running my own shop that sold GW products for a few years of that time. I've simply never seen a 12 year old player (outside my younger brother, who only started playing because I played, and never had his own army or played with anyone but me until he turned 20). Maybe it's a regional thing? I live in Portland, Oregon. There are plenty of young gamers here, but most prefer card games to miniatures, and I can't think of one where I've met one under the age of 16.

So I've never seen any real evidence that GW games are primarily played by younger kids. It always seems to be 19-40 year olds. As I said, this could just be a regional difference.

jake wrote:So I've never seen any real evidence that GW games are primarily played by younger kids. It always seems to be 19-40 year olds. As I said, this could just be a regional difference.

It's very much that. From my years of observing the community in Finland, I can confidently say that maybe about three fifths of the hobbyists are under 16

Agamemnon2 wrote:

jake wrote:So I've never seen any real evidence that GW games are primarily played by younger kids. It always seems to be 19-40 year olds. As I said, this could just be a regional difference.

It's very much that. From my years of observing the community in Finland, I can confidently say that maybe about three fifths of the hobbyists are under 16

Interesting. I guess it is a regional thing then. Even when I was running a store where the customers where mostly 10-18 year olds with lots of money we never sold Warhammer to anyone that age (despite trying). They were always way more interested in card games.

Kilkrazy wrote:OT!

This thread was just revived by this post... however, remains OT

Haha it is vaguely on topic, if we ascertain the average age of players then it makes a big difference as to whether the change to resin is appropriate (really! )

Well I was 9 or 10 when I started playing, and roped other school friends into it as well, starting lunchtime clubs and the like. During my time as a staffer I was beset by sprogs of around this age also, parents often using GW as a convenient baby sitting service.

I guess it must really be a regional thing however. I think the nature of the hobby is always going to appeal to younger kids, and if there is any kind of significant demographic anywhere in the world (be it the UK/US/Canada/Australia/Europe) where the players are at the younger age of scale, you have to look at how appropriate the materials they are using are.
If I were a father I would be happy supervising my kid cutting up sprues (I was given a pair of scissors when I was very young, it was good enough for me at the time! ) but I sure as hell wouldn't let my kid handle resin miniatures in their current form.

This has now been confirmed by some retailers/FLGS ( AZ and AL) and their GW sales reps here in the USA.

So just waiting on the details at this point.... and the inevitable price hike...

TobyDog wrote:This has now been confirmed by some retailers/FLGS ( AZ and AL) and their GW sales reps here in the USA.

So just waiting on the details at this point.... and the inevitable price hike...

you won't have to wait long regardless of whether GW confirms this publicly to consumers or not. it's spring... and that means the yearly "price adjustment" is only a few months away (june/july).

Some of the minis on the Tomb Kings page got overhauled, and none of the metal models are described as "multipart metal models" just "Multipart Models" now. May be a hint that it's already starting. 40K items seems unchanged, so I'm not quite sure.

Fingers crossed for a metal clearance. I want blood bowl teams at half price!

More than likely you'll just see Blood Bowl teams and such go completely unavailable.

This is unfortunate, since I really have no interest in resin models. Then again, I've been increasingly disenchanted by Games Workshop for a couple of years now, so this seems like as good of a time as any to go in a different direction with my gaming dollars.

Pacific wrote:They made all that effort to switch to white metal I think for that reason, the metal type was far more of an issue for children younger than 12, as well as the big expansion into the US market that was happening at the time.

The change to white metal was driven purely by the fact that it became illegal in some of their markets to sell figures with lead in them. Nothing to do with kids under 12, since they've always been marked as not suitable for anyone that age.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Some of the minis on the Tomb Kings page got overhauled, and none of the metal models are described as "multipart metal models" just "Multipart Models" now. May be a hint that it's already starting. 40K items seems unchanged, so I'm not quite sure.

I Work at my FLGS as the mini guy, and when i placed orders this week ALL metal models were going through this, Fantasy and 40k. My rep said look for them being out till May. yaayy..... :(

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Some of the minis on the Tomb Kings page got overhauled, and none of the metal models are described as "multipart metal models" just "Multipart Models" now. May be a hint that it's already starting. 40K items seems unchanged, so I'm not quite sure.

Not so fast. Our GW rep advised us that the termie libby and chappy were now direct only and that most of the metal models from all ranges would follow within 3 months. That IS the first step in the process, getting the good stuff out of our hands before they bring in the gakky resin that shatters into 1000 pieces if you are a dexterity impaired (like me) and knock it off the table.


The floor really is AP 1.

insaniak wrote:
The change to white metal was driven purely by the fact that it became illegal in some of their markets to sell figures with lead in them. Nothing to do with kids under 12, since they've always been marked as not suitable for anyone that age.

I know that it is not, and never was, illegal in the US. As a matter of fact, reaper just brought out the P65 line which conltains lead.

I'm a little confused as to the assumption that GW would shoot themselves in the foot with resin if it wasn't a sound business strategy.

In fact, I think they should be applauded for being an early adopter of new technologies that should hopefully make modelling more interesting. I think we can safely assume that they are not going to be using brittle resins when the plastic/resin hybrids are now available. I hope they've found/bought a new kind of resin that isn't carcinogenic.

I'm also a little confused as to the "brittle" remarks about resin from Forgeworld... but then I realized something. I have the resin Keeper of Secrets from them, but I also noticed that it's a completely different material for her than it is for the resin parts in the 40k and Fantasy basing kits. The basing kits are badly done, brittle and not very nice. In comparison, my KoS is smooth, flexible (her hair pieces especially wouldn't survive being brittle), and has almost no flash. Could this be one of the first steps towards a newer sort of resin they want to move towards?

I remain cautiously optimistic, though I do agree that if the resin dust is still carcinogenic, they both have a duty to inform the buying public of it (and on their products, NOT on a website page somewhere under a FAQ!) and I think it will seriously backfire on them.

Last point, but I think it's an interesting one. Way back, someone said that it would be much harder to do second-hand model trading over eBay if the metals vanished. I wonder if that's what GW are taking into account aswell?

was talking to a privateer press guy at adepticon and they too are thinking of switching the metal models to resin and/or a lead based pewter. Reaper has already switched to a lead based pewter for its line. GW seems to want under 18 to play so they are most likely forced to go with resin.

Dream Pod 9 (Webmaster, biased, you know the drill) has been using resin for a lot of the 'big stuff' for a while. It was funny when I noticed my newer all-resin Aller (a large main battle tank) was lighter than the molder metal Klemms (lighter tanks, about half the length and a bit shorter).

In general I've had pretty good experiences with the resin kits I've gotten in for my personal use from DP9. It's a new experience working with it, and I need to 'schedule' my hobby time a bit so I can a lot of drilling/sanding outside, but there's not much required on the better-designed kits, thankfully.

In Forge World's defense, the biggest DP9 kit I've worked with is the Aller below, and the biggest in production is the HHT-90 which I'd guess is roughly the size of a Land Raider. Forge World does some massive stuff like the Thunderhawks and titans that may be a difficult model from an engineering standpoint.

Aller:


Klemms:

Loki_TBC wrote:I know that it is not, and never was, illegal in the US. As a matter of fact, reaper just brought out the P65 line which conltains lead.

The US isn't GW's only market.

Here in Oz, while I don't believe that having lead in them is inherently a problem, it potentially would affect whether they could be classified as a toy... which has an impact on import tarrifs.

Loki_TBC wrote:

insaniak wrote:
The change to white metal was driven purely by the fact that it became illegal in some of their markets to sell figures with lead in them. Nothing to do with kids under 12, since they've always been marked as not suitable for anyone that age.

I know that it is not, and never was, illegal in the US. As a matter of fact, reaper just brought out the P65 line which conltains lead.

And you would be 100% wrong.

Years ago, a NY judge ruled that the sale and distribution of miniatures/toys with lead content was illegal. Somehow they also made it take effect immediately. Several other states started to follow suite. GW, Ral Partha, and other manufacturers scrambled to go to "white metal" , "ralidium", and other non-lead allows. Models became harder to work with and more expensive. Most of the existing lead miniatures got melted down. My buddy Chris called me when he took ove Ral Partha and found over two tons of lead miniatures, mostly battletech, that he couldn't sell.(

Over time the laws have changed, been rewritten, and re-examined. But that original ruling in NY abolutely changed how the industry worked. The P65 line is specifically for 'collectors' as a way to get around the problems with lead in toys.

GalaxyGobbo's two partnered stores as well as another friend who owns another out of state received word with a list of products that were immediately to be taken off the catalog:

46-25 ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS
46-27 ELDAR WARP SPIDERS
46-29 ELDAR RANGERS
46-36 ELDAR WARLOCK
85-43 DARK ELF DREADLORD
95-11 OGRE KINGDOMS TYRANT
L03-35 SARUMAN AND GRIMA
43-13 CHAOS DREADNOUGHT BOX SET
43-41 CHAOS SPACE MARINE SORCEROR
46-13 ELDAR SHINNING SPEARS
46-16 ELDAR FARSEER & WARLOCK BODYGUARD
46-22 ELDAR DARK REAPERS
46-24 ELDAR HOWLING BANSHEES
46-26 ELDAR SWOOPING HAWKS
46-30 ELDAR AUTARCH ON JETBIKE
46-37 ELDAR WRAITHGUARD
48-18 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN ON BIKE
48-24 SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE AND SERVITORS
48-31 SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD
48-33 SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD
49-10 NECRON HEAVY DESTROYER BOX
49-13 NECRON C’TAN THE DECEIVER BOX
50-23 ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN
51-09 TYRANID HIVE TYRANT BOX
51-43 TYRANID HIVE GUARD
56-15 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM
83-58 CHAOS KHORNE CHAMPION
84-25 DWARF SLAYERS
84-43 DWARF MASTER ENGINEER
50-38 ORKS IN MEGA ARMOUR
50-42 ORK BOSS SNIKROT
55-12 BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER UPGRADE
90-15 SKAVEN SCREAMING BELL/PLAGUE FURNACE
90-37 SKAVEN WARLORD QUEEK HEADTAKER
97-10 DAEMONS PLAGUEBEARERS OF NURGLE
97-11 DAEMONS PLAGUEBEARERS OF NURGLE COMMAND
97-13 DAEMONS FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH
97-14 DAEMONS FLESH HOUNDS OF KHORNE
97-18 DAEMONS LORD OF CHANGE GREATER DAEMON OF TZEENTCH
97-20 DAEMONS BLOOD THIRSTER GREATER DAEMON OF KHORNE

47-64 TECHPRIEST ENGINSEER
48-38 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN
48-44 SPACE MARINE TERMINATOR CHAPLAIN
48-45 SPACE MARINE JUMP PACK CHAPLAIN

Yeah, who needs Tyranid Hive Guard?
Or Eldar ... anything?

Some update:

Harry wrote:

ghost21 wrote:not sure if its exactly a rumor but ive just been informed necrons will see the first of the resin figs

For 40K maybe but fantasy will see some first.(...)
I didn't choose my words very carefully. I meant fantasy will get something in resin before 40K.