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You Sir, like most I think, have a funny idea of what constitutes canon. As retribution just pointed out: "Lack of evidence toward the positive doesn't necessitate the negative to be true".

Grey Templar wrote:

nomotog wrote:Where did people hear that pulse rifles where inaccurate?

the fact we arn't told anything to the contrary.


Tau players are claiming that the FWs should be BS4 because they should be better then IG.

Lasguns are stated to be very accurate weapons, but Guardsmen are only BS3.


So Pulse weapons must not be as accurate and precise weapons as Lasguns are. This could explain the Tau BS3. its largely due to having a slightly less accurate weapon.

I don't really follow your reasoning. Heck I am just going to say it. That logic is full of holes that I want to use it to strain my pasta. Your a fine person, just I don't think you can draw that conclusion from the evidence we have.

3 BS is quite common among the tau. Only the commanders get more. All these tau have 3BS well using different weapons. Even sniper rifles. The BS also is not affect when you switch from one weapon to another on any unit anywhere. The quality of a weapon dose not affect the BS.

^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

Best guess. So that it can keep it's S6 when attacking vehicles.

I say it's because only one Tau I know of actually wields one himself instead of being handled by a drone controller.

Lotet wrote:I say it's because only one Tau I know of actually wields one himself instead of being handled by a drone controller.

3 per PF squad


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nomotog wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

Best guess. So that it can keep it's S6 when attacking vehicles.

Tru. Not complaining, just wondering.

Grey Templar wrote:
Tau players are claiming that the FWs should be BS4 because they should be better then IG.

Not all, just the ones that don't want to spend points elsewhere . I would much rather BS3 and a points drop over bs4 and 10+ points a FW.

I predict no disappointment for you when the new codex is released.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

IIRC, the rail rifle was used to snipe tanks because there were too many Guard tanks for just Broadsides/Seekers/Fusion Suits/Fusion Pirahnas

Why so much discussion on this? GW has said they're eyes and/or brains don't focus that fast. How is that not the answer?

ForgottenRealm wrote:To go even further back on topic, maybe they are BS 3 because they just are! Absolutely nothing in the codex, or the fluff, implicitly states that they are superior to humans.

They have a great rifle - check
They have a nifty helmet - check
They have an irrefutable BS of 3 - check

RETCON it all you like, it doesn't change that it's an old codex.

Correct. Most of the claims in this thread belong into dakka fiction or 40k proposed rules.

Void__Dragon wrote:

ForgottenRealm wrote: It's simply a possible explanation to satisfy Tau fans for why their basic troops have BS 3!

One cannot satisfy the unreasonable.

Sadly true.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Not canon. It is a theory. A "hunch" that was made by enemies of the Tau forbidden from studying their anatomy/technology by the ordo xenos. Not canon.

Background as written in a codex is part of the canon if canon is what codices provide on information.
You think discarding your own codex helps?
Let me tell you, either codices count or you got nothing to debate in 40k background. Cause I doubt this forum is meant to be filled with fanfic. Its also stated commonly in fluff that a duty of the magos biologis is to study lifeforms and until your Tau are not alive ( in 40k, not real life! ) this pretty much makes them a possible "source" for any fluffbit a gamedesigner/author plants into the background.

Grey Templar wrote:
So Pulse weapons must not be as accurate and precise weapons as Lasguns are. This could explain the Tau BS3. its largely due to having a slightly less accurate weapon.

Pulse weapons are usually multishot weapons and thus less accurate than single shot weapons.
Think of eldar weapons. Necron weapons. etc etc.
There is no such thing as the weapon raising the BS. Targetting systems can, but in 40k those are restricted to vehicles and suits.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

Its copied in from a computer/video game.
Gw explained it when they did it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Why so much discussion on this? GW has said they're eyes and/or brains don't focus that fast. How is that not the answer?

It is.

im2randomghgh wrote:
As to Tau when they're enraged, it is true they are methodical, but also, once angry at the death of an Ethereal, they can beat Guardsman in melee. Just sayin'.

Funny, I always tough that Tau retreat from the planet when their Etherial is killed...

Isn't it funny how AI weapon systems shoot worst than humans? Computers can process input data from the environment and react faster with pin point accuracy. Silly GW codex writers. They are behind times.

edit:

Brother Coa wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
As to Tau when they're enraged, it is true they are methodical, but also, once angry at the death of an Ethereal, they can beat Guardsman in melee. Just sayin'.

Funny, I always tough that Tau retreat from the planet when their Etherial is killed...

I see you haven't read Imperial Armour Vol.3 Taros Campaign. If you had, you would have though differently.

Grey Templar wrote:I predict no disappointment for you when the new codex is released.

+1

Especially if a certain Ultramarine fan is writing it...


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SabrX wrote:
I see you haven't read Imperial Armour Vol.3 Taros Campaign. If you had, you would have though differently.

True...but then you didn't see the end of campaign on Kronus and Kaurava....
You kill the Etherial and Tau run like hell

Brother Coa wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I predict no disappointment for you when the new codex is released.

+1

Especially if a certain Ultramarine fan is writing it...


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SabrX wrote:
I see you haven't read Imperial Armour Vol.3 Taros Campaign. If you had, you would have though differently.

True...but then you didn't see the end of campaign on Kronus and Kaurava....
You kill the Etherial and Tau run like hell

The great thing about computer games are the alternative endings. Tau wins and the Imperial citizens are subject to reeducation camps with their population dwindling.

That relies on the idea of there being one Ethereal attached to the entire campaign group. Which is just silly. Killing all of the Etherals? Probably, but kill one Ethereal is only going to affect the morale of the units in the immediate vicinity.

This worked in the videa games because they tell incredibly simplified stories with one leader per faction.

SabrX wrote:
The great thing about computer games are the alternative endings. Tau wins and the Imperial citizens are subject to reeducation camps with their population dwindling.

Know what even grater: GW and Relic stating that true ending for DC was Space Marine and SS was Imperial Guard one. So Tau get owned in both games

As an avid DoW player, they're hardly canonical or accurate overall, and placing them above Imperial Armour is...an interesting choice. Having said that, as far as i remember, the Tau didn't simply up and run when defeated, they stood to the last man defending the ethereal present

1hadhq wrote:

ForgottenRealm wrote:To go even further back on topic, maybe they are BS 3 because they just are! Absolutely nothing in the codex, or the fluff, implicitly states that they are superior to humans.

They have a great rifle - check
They have a nifty helmet - check
They have an irrefutable BS of 3 - check

RETCON it all you like, it doesn't change that it's an old codex.

Correct. Most of the claims in this thread belong into dakka fiction or 40k proposed rules.

Void__Dragon wrote:

ForgottenRealm wrote: It's simply a possible explanation to satisfy Tau fans for why their basic troops have BS 3!

One cannot satisfy the unreasonable.

Sadly true.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Not canon. It is a theory. A "hunch" that was made by enemies of the Tau forbidden from studying their anatomy/technology by the ordo xenos. Not canon.

Background as written in a codex is part of the canon if canon is what codices provide on information.
You think discarding your own codex helps?
Let me tell you, either codices count or you got nothing to debate in 40k background. Cause I doubt this forum is meant to be filled with fanfic. Its also stated commonly in fluff that a duty of the magos biologis is to study lifeforms and until your Tau are not alive ( in 40k, not real life! ) this pretty much makes them a possible "source" for any fluffbit a gamedesigner/author plants into the background.

Grey Templar wrote:
So Pulse weapons must not be as accurate and precise weapons as Lasguns are. This could explain the Tau BS3. its largely due to having a slightly less accurate weapon.

Pulse weapons are usually multishot weapons and thus less accurate than single shot weapons.
Think of eldar weapons. Necron weapons. etc etc.
There is no such thing as the weapon raising the BS. Targetting systems can, but in 40k those are restricted to vehicles and suits.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ The sniper rifle thing reminded me: Why isn't the Rail rifle a sniper? makes no sense.

Its copied in from a computer/video game.
Gw explained it when they did it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Why so much discussion on this? GW has said they're eyes and/or brains don't focus that fast. How is that not the answer?

It is.

Pulse weapons are single shot weapons. Fact. Not Multi shot. They have better eyesight, which makes the better snipers. Fact.

It is not canon because it is supposition from an Imperial Point of view. Humans, being less inclined towards absolute loyal, cannot comprehend it, and begin clutching at straws to try and explain it, simply because they do not understand. They also made a wild guess that Ethereals are psykers, but it doesn't make it true.

@ The part I bolded, are any of us reasonable? We are arguing about a hypothetical universe and, what's worse, we are arguing about th e minutiae. The is no reasonableness in that, but it IS amusing, so calm down. BTW I like the colour bleu.


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Brother Coa wrote:

SabrX wrote:
The great thing about computer games are the alternative endings. Tau wins and the Imperial citizens are subject to reeducation camps with their population dwindling.

Know what even grater: GW and Relic stating that true ending for DC was Space Marine and SS was Imperial Guard one. So Tau get owned in both games

If video game events matter to you, than do you consider Fire Warrior canon? You know, where a SINGLE FW kills enormous numbers of SM, a GD of Tzeentch, and countless other enemies, on his OWN?

im2randomghgh wrote:

If video game events matter to you, than do you consider Fire Warrior canon? You know, where a SINGLE FW kills enormous numbers of SM, a GD of Tzeentch, and countless other enemies, on his OWN?

Happens in a book too.

As far as I'm concerned, the only canon game is Chaos Gate for the DS. Great game. Turn based. Fun. Like how X-COM was.

@ random - Tau Empire states: (pg 9) "It is speculated that they exert some kind of pheromone based or latent psychic control over the other castes, as loyalty th the Ethereals is absolute and unswerving...The adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Arbites are very interested in this aspect of Tau culture." As you can see in the codex, this is written outside of a traditional fluff box. It's speculation because it's an open-ended plot element. We're given two choices. One of them will bear out to be...expanded upon in the next codex (educated guess). Further, given the information in the rest of the codex regarding the appearance and behavior of the Ethereals, it's a weak position indeed to assert that it's simple blind loyalty on the part of the other castes. Also, latent psychic control does not a psyker make.

And who's eye sight are you talking about?

You can't simultaneously declare your own version of canon, while trying to justify random claims about what the Tau are not by coming up with nonexistent fluff excuses yourself. Excuses, I might at, that are not canon themselves.

im2randomghgh wrote:

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Brother Coa wrote:

SabrX wrote:
The great thing about computer games are the alternative endings. Tau wins and the Imperial citizens are subject to reeducation camps with their population dwindling.

Know what even grater: GW and Relic stating that true ending for DC was Space Marine and SS was Imperial Guard one. So Tau get owned in both games

If video game events matter to you, than do you consider Fire Warrior canon? You know, where a SINGLE FW kills enormous numbers of SM, a GD of Tzeentch, and countless other enemies, on his OWN?

Ha ha, good one.

The Pulse Rifles in that game are underpowered.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Pulse weapons are single shot weapons. Fact. Not Multi shot. They have better eyesight, which makes the better snipers. Fact.

Your definition of fact is disturbing...

Its not my fault they go for "spray and pray".
Pulse / stream
A weapon using a pulse deals multiple shots. Never played any game don't you?
*points at 2d shoot em ups*
See, pulse.

Since I have yet to see the piece of background that backs up the claim of better eyesight, why don't you enlighten us where to find it?
Soo many pages spent missing this......

Plus, the last reported successful sniper in a dex was a catachan, not a Tau. But a Tau was the target...
Seems they make fine targets for snipers.

im2randomghgh wrote:
It is not canon because it is supposition from an Imperial Point of view. Humans, being less inclined towards absolute loyal, cannot comprehend it, and begin clutching at straws to try and explain it, simply because they do not understand. They also made a wild guess that Ethereals are psykers, but it doesn't make it true.

The whole dex is canon or zero page are.
Decide.

1hadhq wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
It is not canon because it is supposition from an Imperial Point of view. Humans, being less inclined towards absolute loyal, cannot comprehend it, and begin clutching at straws to try and explain it, simply because they do not understand. They also made a wild guess that Ethereals are psykers, but it doesn't make it true.

The whole dex is canon or zero page are.
Decide.

It's all cannon. So it is cannon that people speculate that it is some kind smell based control. That's about the same as having a rumor that's cannon. It's true that there is a rumor, but that dosen't make the rumor true.

People tend to think rumors are suppose be to true, but that dosen't have to be the case. Some times a rumor is just a rumor.

The eyesight thing isn't Imperial speculation though. It was put in there as part of the background to address this exact question. How can warriors who are so well trained only have BS 3? Because the have a bit of trouble focusing on objects at a distance. Tau eyes are actually very complicated and can perceive many things humans cannot but becasue they are so complicated there's a bit of a trade off when it comes to reaction time.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The eyesight thing isn't Imperial speculation though. It was put in there as part of the background to address this exact question. How can warriors who are so well trained only have BS 3? Because the have a bit of trouble focusing on objects at a distance. Tau eyes are actually very complicated and can perceive many things humans cannot but becasue they are so complicated there's a bit of a trade off when it comes to reaction time.

It was also retconned in the current codex (not a word of it in there at all). They're BS3 for game balance purposes due to the d6 system. I think they should be BS3 base and elites and pathfinders should be BS4.

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The eyesight thing isn't Imperial speculation though. It was put in there as part of the background to address this exact question. How can warriors who are so well trained only have BS 3? Because the have a bit of trouble focusing on objects at a distance. Tau eyes are actually very complicated and can perceive many things humans cannot but becasue they are so complicated there's a bit of a trade off when it comes to reaction time.

It was also retconned in the current codex (not a word of it in there at all). They're BS3 for game balance purposes due to the d6 system. I think they should be BS3 base and elites and pathfinders should be BS4.

It wasn't in the old Codex either. It was in the design notes from Andy Chambers.

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The eyesight thing isn't Imperial speculation though. It was put in there as part of the background to address this exact question. How can warriors who are so well trained only have BS 3? Because the have a bit of trouble focusing on objects at a distance. Tau eyes are actually very complicated and can perceive many things humans cannot but becasue they are so complicated there's a bit of a trade off when it comes to reaction time.

It was also retconned in the current codex (not a word of it in there at all). They're BS3 for game balance purposes due to the d6 system. I think they should be BS3 base and elites and pathfinders should be BS4.

Not mentioned, doesn't mean retconned. For something to be retconned it must be explicitly contradicted.

nomotog wrote:It's true that there is a rumor, but that dosen't make the rumor true.

People tend to think rumors are suppose be to true, but that dosen't have to be the case. Some times a rumor is just a rumor.

Agreed rumors may become true or false.
What I was trying to say is, both ways are to be accepted as canon. GW could decide to move it or not.
This does not invalidate the rumors until this happens and IMO loose ends should be accepted as possible future.

We would have less "heat" in these threads if the trend to discard unwanted futures would be stopped. There is nothing against having a personal take on 40k, but in 40k background the whole publication is part of canon or not to keep the base to argue from identical for everyone.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The eyesight thing isn't Imperial speculation though. It was put in there as part of the background to address this exact question. How can warriors who are so well trained only have BS 3? Because the have a bit of trouble focusing on objects at a distance. Tau eyes are actually very complicated and can perceive many things humans cannot but becasue they are so complicated there's a bit of a trade off when it comes to reaction time.

It was also retconned in the current codex (not a word of it in there at all). They're BS3 for game balance purposes due to the d6 system. I think they should be BS3 base and elites and pathfinders should be BS4.

Not mentioned, doesn't mean retconned. For something to be retconned it must be explicitly contradicted.

Where did you find this information in the first place?