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Durza wrote:

Chosen Praetorian wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:This galaxy is Emperor's to rule.

Aldo our time now is dark and uncertain - we know this.

Our enemies will never give up, but neither will we.

We will one day stay on our feet and cleanse this galaxy from Aliens, Mutants and Heretics clean.

Because nothing can't stop the Crusade of the Righteous.

The Emperor protects!!!
May his light guide us to victory.

Short answer: no.

Agreed

Lovely. Now we have two deluded optimists.

I dont need optimism when i have Phil Kelly and Matt Ward writing GOOD codexes for the imperium. Seeing as how the only "real" aspect we have of the 40K universe is the game itself then why dont we compare the current codex line? The 2 best dexes out there are SW and GK.
Now lets use the theory that two players of equal skill decide to play 1v1's of the Xenos v Imperium dexes:

1. Nids? lol
2. Necrons? Eh, not really impressed with what im seeing so far
3. DE? Theyre pretty decent but auto lose to guard (another imperium dex)
4. Tau? LOLOLOL
5. Orks? *see GK purifiers and Thunder Cav -------->
6. Eldar? another Lol

I feel pretty good about this

Never lost a game to the IOM with my DE or Daemons, but hey....

Never lost to SW or GK with orks, even spammy lists. BA is another story..

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge.

How is that any different from Eldar thinking the galaxy is their birthright or the Tau thinking that they have a manifest destiny to rule the galaxy?

The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly.

What? Unless I'm mistaken, the Imperial truth was meant to get rid of religion and replacing it with rationalism and science.

The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

Any actual proof that the Emp hated aliens? My interpretation is that the Emp was a lot like the Eldar in thinking of other races as irrelevant in that if they had to die to achieve his goal, then so be it. But it was nothing personal. Although if this attitude is considered bigoted then the Eldar are also bigots.

Ascalam wrote:Never lost a game to the IOM with my DE or Daemons, but hey....

Never lost to SW or GK with orks, even spammy lists. BA is another story..

Lol read the part where i said "two players of equal skill."
If youre playing mouth breathers and winning with
deamons and orks over SW/GK then High 5!
DE i can believe

Actually, the only real way to keep things on some sort of even keel would be to revive the Emperor. The Imperium is fading fast, and only the Emperor could return it to... not failing as hard.

I don't know what 6th ed will bring, but I'm hoping it will bring some sort of story advancement. Something along the lines of the Emprasque that's on 1d4chan.org, but not as insane.

Chosen Praetorian wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Never lost a game to the IOM with my DE or Daemons, but hey....

Never lost to SW or GK with orks, even spammy lists. BA is another story..

Lol read the part where i said "two players of equal skill."
If youre playing mouth breathers and winning with
deamons and orks over SW/GK then High 5!
DE i can believe

I did. I rarely play folk that are too far out from my skill level. I play a lot of tournaments (some really good players there) and even won a couple with OLDcrons, but that was as much luck and tactics as codex power. It helps that people tend to always play the 'powerbuild' lists, so you know exactly what they will have and what it can do.

SW and GK are good at some things, bad at others. They can be beaten. I'm not saying that it wasn't close, some times, but i've yet to be beaten by either I doubt it will last

Blood Angels tend to waffle-stomp my orks, but then out local BA player is seriously fething good and lucky to boot, on top of an uber codex I have a far easier time with them with daemons and DE, especially DE..

DE played right are vicious. Fragile as hell, but vicious.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge.

How is that any different from Eldar thinking the galaxy is their birthright or the Tau thinking that they have a manifest destiny to rule the galaxy?

The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly.

What? Unless I'm mistaken, the Imperial truth was meant to get rid of religion and replacing it with rationalism and science.

The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

Any actual proof that the Emp hated aliens? My interpretation is that the Emp was a lot like the Eldar in thinking of other races as irrelevant in that if they had to die to achieve his goal, then so be it. But it was nothing personal. Although if this attitude is considered bigoted then the Eldar are also bigots.

I never said it was different than the Eldar, and I don't know if the Eldar instituted controlled genocide of other sentient races, maybe they did. If so, they wouldn't be any better than the Emperor whose empire systematically spread throughout the galaxy and cleansed the xenos merrily along the way.
The Tau would willingly give their lives to preserve the Greater Good. Every single one of them (as long as an Etheral was around). The Tau ad the Kroot have been the only race to prove that they can put an ideaology before some sort of biological aloofness. The Tau require an Etheral, and the Kroot do so in order to further their own evolution, but neither indiscriminately kills like the Emperors troops on his Great Crusade.

The Imperial Truth sought to replace faith in religion with faith in science, with the caveat that man was the purest physical being (because the Emperor was a man) and thus deserved to rule the galaxy (Because the Emperor was da biggest and mos pow'ful humie so he deserved to rule da galaxy). The Imperial Truth only placed as much faith in science as was convenient for those in power; however, as any creation of AI was an immediate death knell for that civilization. So, basically, science was supposed to be god, except, only up to the point the Emperor says it is.

The Emperor did terrible things for what he thought was a worthy goal. Fortunately, he failed, and barring some Imperium propaganda miraculously coming true, the IoM will descend into the annals of history as one of the longest and most terrible times in the Milky Way Galaxy.

CpatTom wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge.

How is that any different from Eldar thinking the galaxy is their birthright or the Tau thinking that they have a manifest destiny to rule the galaxy?

The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly.

What? Unless I'm mistaken, the Imperial truth was meant to get rid of religion and replacing it with rationalism and science.

The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

Any actual proof that the Emp hated aliens? My interpretation is that the Emp was a lot like the Eldar in thinking of other races as irrelevant in that if they had to die to achieve his goal, then so be it. But it was nothing personal. Although if this attitude is considered bigoted then the Eldar are also bigots.

I never said it was different than the Eldar, and I don't know if the Eldar instituted controlled genocide of other sentient races, maybe they did. If so, they wouldn't be any better than the Emperor whose empire systematically spread throughout the galaxy and cleansed the xenos merrily along the way.
The Tau would willingly give their lives to preserve the Greater Good. Every single one of them (as long as an Etheral was around). The Tau ad the Kroot have been the only race to prove that they can put an ideaology before some sort of biological aloofness. The Tau require an Etheral, and the Kroot do so in order to further their own evolution, but neither indiscriminately kills like the Emperors troops on his Great Crusade.

The Imperial Truth sought to replace faith in religion with faith in science, with the caveat that man was the purest physical being (because the Emperor was a man) and thus deserved to rule the galaxy (Because the Emperor was da biggest and mos pow'ful humie so he deserved to rule da galaxy). The Imperial Truth only placed as much faith in science as was convenient for those in power; however, as any creation of AI was an immediate death knell for that civilization. So, basically, science was supposed to be god, except, only up to the point the Emperor says it is.

The Emperor did terrible things for what he thought was a worthy goal. Fortunately, he failed, and barring some Imperium propaganda miraculously coming true, the IoM will descend into the annals of history as one of the longest and most terrible times in the Milky Way Galaxy.

The 40k galaxy is a galaxy of the survival of the fittest. Only the strong races survive in it, so there's nothing wrong with destroying all threats to your race's survival. And AIs were forbidden not because it was convenient, go read up on the Men of Iron, gue'vesa.

CpatTom wrote:
I never said it was different than the Eldar, and I don't know if the Eldar instituted controlled genocide of other sentient races, maybe they did. If so, they wouldn't be any better than the Emperor whose empire systematically spread throughout the galaxy and cleansed the xenos merrily along the way.

At least you entertain the prospect. Also, the goal of the Great Crusade was reclamation and reunification. The killing of Xenos was simply something that happened on the way. As for the Emp's true policy on the xenos. Its not one completely nailed down due to things contradicting each other in the fluff.

The Tau would willingly give their lives to preserve the Greater Good. Every single one of them (as long as an Etheral was around). The Tau ad the Kroot have been the only race to prove that they can put an ideaology before some sort of biological aloofness. The Tau require an Etheral, and the Kroot do so in order to further their own evolution, but neither indiscriminately kills like the Emperors troops on his Great Crusade.

I don't care.

The Imperial Truth sought to replace faith in religion with faith in science, with the caveat that man was the purest physical being (because the Emperor was a man) and thus deserved to rule the galaxy (Because the Emperor was da biggest and mos pow'ful humie so he deserved to rule da galaxy). The Imperial Truth only placed as much faith in science as was convenient for those in power; however, as any creation of AI was an immediate death knell for that civilization. So, basically, science was supposed to be god, except, only up to the point the Emperor says it is.

You have no idea about the reason for the Age of Strife at all do you? It was a combination of AI rebellion, No interstellar travel and communication due to Warp storms and alien invasion and the worst of all psyker's going insane or daemon possession.

The Imperial truth purpose was to replace faith and superstition with science not a religion of the Emperor. Infact, the Emp treated those who prayed to him as a God very harshly but you're of course too busy fapping off to the Tau to know this. It is canon in fluff that the Emp was created for the purpose of protecting the human race by any means necessary.

The Emp didn't want to create an AI due to wanting t avoid the danger of the DAoT.

The Emperor did terrible things for what he thought was a worthy goal. Fortunately, he failed, and barring some Imperium propaganda miraculously coming true, the IoM will descend into the annals of history as one of the longest and most terrible times in the Milky Way Galaxy.

Blah bah, blah all other's like humanity and Eldar and their empires suck. All hail the Tau! And yet you claim that Imperial players are crazy? Its seems to me that you're the crazy one snorting on Tau propaganda.

Bad news for you friend! If certain fiction is right, the fall of the Imperium means that the entire of Imperium space will turn into a warp portal similar to the Eye of Terror but far larger in size so that means the entire galaxy will end up swallowed by the Warp including the Tau empire. Oh joy, I can't wait for that day!

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge. The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly. The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

The only know one race that was exterminated in that time: Laeran. And that was not him, that was his son Fulgrim.
I also know that many Eldar exodite worlds was destroyed by - Fulgrim again. There is no mention of Emperor anywhere in the text. So that was his sons, not him.
I certainly don't recall Emperor ordering World Eaters to butcher population of every world they liberate as it was stated in Index Astartes 3.
And I agree with his policy: in a galaxy that doesen't give a for you you don't give a to it. Aliens attacked Mankind, waged wars on it and all in the time it was most vulnerable ( Age of Strife ). Humans never forget this, and they never will. And this is why policy of "Only Humans" was introduced in his teachings. Being that only Xenos then were Eldar, Tau and some minor species - I don't have a problem with it.
Furthermore Durza you can't say "they would unite with Tau and Eldar" because you think like 21'st century Human. Try to think like 301'st century Human or 401'st one.
Eldar are Xenofobic and hate Humans A LOT ( probably because they rule the Galaxy now instead of them ) and Tau ask every other race to succumb to their rule and their beliefs. Humans are to proud to that and because of our "peaceful" history with them we would never consoder this because they will only use us and then throw us away ( like Eldar, most of the time ).

And for all of those that think I am trolling:

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge. The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly. The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

The only know one race that was exterminated in that time: Laeran. And that was not him, that was his son Fulgrim.
I also know that many Eldar exodite worlds was destroyed by - Fulgrim again. There is no mention of Emperor anywhere in the text. So that was his sons, not him.
I certainly don't recall Emperor ordering World Eaters to butcher population of every world they liberate as it was stated in Index Astartes 3.
And I agree with his policy: in a galaxy that doesen't give a for you you don't give a to it. Aliens attacked Mankind, waged wars on it and all in the time it was most vulnerable ( Age of Strife ). Humans never forget this, and they never will. And this is why policy of "Only Humans" was introduced in his teachings. Being that only Xenos then were Eldar, Tau and some minor species - I don't have a problem with it.
Furthermore Durza you can't say "they would unite with Tau and Eldar" because you think like 21'st century Human. Try to think like 301'st century Human or 401'st one.
Eldar are Xenofobic and hate Humans A LOT ( probably because they rule the Galaxy now instead of them ) and Tau ask every other race to succumb to their rule and their beliefs. Humans are to proud to that and because of our "peaceful" history with them we would never consoder this because they will only use us and then throw us away ( like Eldar, most of the time ).

And for all of those that think I am trolling:

Spoiler:

Coa's right. All the races in 40k think they're superior to all others, so what's wrong with Mankind thinking the same? As I said before, 40k is survival of the fittest. Only strong races can rule the galaxy. All of them know that. The methods are just different. The Orks and Humans do it in a straightforward manner: kill all your enemies. The Eldar do that too sometimes, but they prefer to manipulate 'lesser races' to do their dirty work for them. If anything it shows the youth and naivete of the Tau that they think that if everyone understands each others' culture they can work together. It doesn't. Don't apply 21st Century ethics to 40k. Even our 21st Century ethics mirrors 40k. In our own history, advanced civilizations (Europe in the Age of Exploration) have destroyed what they considered inferior (Incas, Mayans, etc.). 40k is no different. The winner is always right/no one prosecutes winners. The losers of WWII and their descendants (I'm half-Japanese) know that best. If you win a war, you're just. No one will question your methods, or if they do, it comes to nothing. The losers get nothing at all. We Japanese kept our Emperor thanks only to General MacArthur telling the one's who wanted the Emperor out 'over my dead body'.

Tadashi wrote: The Orks and Humans do it in a straightforward manner: kill all your enemies.

Foolish Imperial's! When a galaxy is colored green it means we ORK's have already won!


WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

Corporal_Reznov wrote: it means we Orks have won.
WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

No you didn't. As long as every Ork fight for himself and not for his race supremacy we have the upper hand

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Its not my attitude. I'm just stating an unpleasant fact about politics and power that is a fact of life whether we like it or not. Take a look at the situation with Pakistan and the US for what I mean.

So in politics it's ok to murder, steal and destroy to achieve an aim, regardless of building relations on trust and friendship I'm sure there are instances of this occurring but not every relationship is formed this way.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:I agree utterly on this. What am I discussing is who fouled up more in escalating the situation from a dispute cause Horus and his team didn't want to disarm into a firefight.

There wasn't a firefight until the Interex were left with no option but to attack

Corporal_Reznov wrote:]Okay, then please give your theory on why is it sentient.

Because the Kinbrach created that way. Need there be another?

Brother Coa wrote:
The only know one race that was exterminated in that time: Laeran. And that was not him, that was his son Fulgrim.

And who's orders are Fulgrim carrying out, who is Fulgrim acting on behalf of?

The Jorgall from Flight of the Eisenstein were likely wiped out, being xenos and psykers. The Keylekid mentioned in Horus Rising were also wiped out as were the race of sentient machines the Luna Wolves encountered.

Politics is a kaleidoscope, constantly changing in color. People can talk all they want about trust and understanding, but in the end, in both 40k and the real world, people only follow the strong. Think about it, who's in charge? The rich and influential, and people follow the law because they fear the punishment that results from breaking it, not because it's the right thing to do. Well, not everyone, but society in general follows that trend.

Pilau Rice wrote:
And who's orders are Fulgrim carrying out, who is Fulgrim acting on behalf of?

So all those poor Iraqi solders that were in prison after war 2003 that got beaten up, raped and worse were under torment by solders acting on behalf of American people and American government?

Fulgrim acted on his own, his father didn't control him. Same goes for the rest of the Primarchs.

During and after the Crusade, Space Marines have always been semi-autonomous from the Imperium. No one really questions their methods so long as the results benefit the Imperium. Just like the Inquisition, the Space Marines answer only to themselves and the Emperor. Even the High Lords and the Inquisition have to treat the Astartes with discretion. By the way Coa, I have to ask. Does the commie frog in your signature mean the Tau?

@Tadashi Yes it does

Oh I see. I seem to remember saying before that Tau aren't space communists, but they're quite close, as when I read up on gue'vesa, the fluff called the Tau 'collectivist'.

Pilau Rice wrote:
So in politics it's ok to murder, steal and destroy to achieve an aim, regardless of building relations on trust and friendship I'm sure there are instances of this occurring but not every relationship is formed this way.

Yes as long as one has plausible deniability and does it behind the others back.

There wasn't a firefight until the Interex were left with no option but to attack

So the Interex did attack first and you just admitted to it. Okay, now that that is settled. My entire point in this discussion is why didn't the Interex follow diplomatic protocols and try to handle the situation rationally in making a compromise? Or explaining the situation clearly? Just to be clear; I agree that both sides failed utterly. I'm attempting to settle the fact about who failed more.

You yourself said that the Interex had no ships capable of standing up to the Imperium so what would killing Horus and his team solve? Nothing but painting a huge target on their heads.

Because the Kinbrach created that way. Need there be another?

Yes. Is it inhabited by a spirit like an Eldar soul gem? Is it a Chaos Blade? Does it have an AI? How is it sentient?

And who's orders are Fulgrim carrying out, who is Fulgrim acting on behalf of?

Horus, cause he was the Warmaster as the Emp had left for Terra to play around with Webway tech?

The Jorgall from Flight of the Eisenstein were likely wiped out, being xenos and psykers.

Weren't they being attacked cause they kept on entering human space?

The Keylekid mentioned in Horus Rising were also wiped out as were the race of sentient machines the Luna Wolves encountered.

That sounds like they were remains of the DAoT tech and thus exterminated due to the Emp not wanting any trace of AI from the DAoT so as to prevent a resurgence of the Iron Men.

I'm sorry, I still haven't been able to get the book as today I had school. But I will be able to get the book by Sunday(its Friday here in the Philippines) and post a reply to you Monday.

Tadashi wrote:Politics is a kaleidoscope, constantly changing in color. People can talk all they want about trust and understanding, but in the end, in both 40k and the real world, people only follow the strong. Think about it, who's in charge? The rich and influential, and people follow the law because they fear the punishment that results from breaking it, not because it's the right thing to do. Well, not everyone, but society in general follows that trend.

We're not discussing the case of who is in charge here.

Horus wanted to show the Interex that they are not just a race of warriors, he wanted to bring them back to the embrace of Terra. How are you going to show them that you are one and the same and bring them back to the fold if you can't co - operate with each other. Horus should just have waded in like normal if that's the way how relations are built.

Might is right once again.

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote: it means we Orks have won.
WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

No you didn't. As long as every Ork fight for himself and not for his race supremacy we have the upper hand

Bah! Foolish Imperials! We Orks have seen the rise and fall of the Eldar and Human empires and seen both races now stand on the precipice of extinction. Something we do not suffer from, instead we thrive. We Orks have WON! Get over it .

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Politics is a kaleidoscope, constantly changing in color. People can talk all they want about trust and understanding, but in the end, in both 40k and the real world, people only follow the strong. Think about it, who's in charge? The rich and influential, and people follow the law because they fear the punishment that results from breaking it, not because it's the right thing to do. Well, not everyone, but society in general follows that trend.

We're not discussing the case of who is in charge here.

Horus wanted to show the Interex that they are not just a race of warriors, he wanted to bring them back to the embrace of Terra. How are you going to show them that you are one and the same and bring them back to the fold if you can't co - operate with each other. Horus should just have waded in like normal if that's the way how relations are built.

Might is right once again.

Might IS right, both in our world and in 40k. In our world, it's just not as obvious and 'direct' as in 40k, but in 40k, that's the only thing that allows any race to claim a spot in the galaxy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote: it means we Orks have won.
WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

No you didn't. As long as every Ork fight for himself and not for his race supremacy we have the upper hand

Bah! Foolish Imperials! We Orks have seen the rise and fall of the Eldar and Human empires and seen both races now stand on the precipice of extinction. Something we do not suffer from, instead we thrive. We Orks have WON! Get over it .

In a way the Orks have won. They may not be the dominant race in the galaxy, thanks to their chronic anarchy, but for them survival is guaranteed at the least. "The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude." - From Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

Doesn't mean we'll just lie down and die though. The greatest strength of Mankind is that our sheer will and drive to defy fate and make our own destiny has allowed us to triumph time and time again, to the great surprise and anger of our enemies (Farseers and Chaos Powers.)

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Yes as long as one has plausible deniability and does it behind the others back.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:So the Interex did attack first and you just admitted to it. Okay, now that that is settled. My entire point in this discussion is why didn't the Interex follow diplomatic protocols and try to handle the situation rationally in making a compromise? Or explaining the situation clearly? Just to be clear; I agree that both sides failed utterly. I'm attempting to settle the fact about who failed more.

I've never said anything to the contrary, so I am not sure what your point is? If the Imperium handled the situation better then the Interex never would have had to raise arms, that's the point.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:so what would killing Horus and his team solve? Nothing but painting a huge target on their heads.

Exactly, why not comply with the requests of the Interex until Horus was absolved. This is a point I raised earlier, nice to see that you agree with me.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Yes. Is it inhabited by a spirit like an Eldar soul gem? Is it a Chaos Blade? Does it have an AI? How is it sentient?

It's described as being a sentient blade, that's all the book says, that the Kinbrach created it and it is sentient

Tadashi wrote:
Might IS right, both in our world and in 40k. In our world, it's just not as obvious and 'direct' as in 40k, but in 40k, that's the only thing that allows any race to claim a spot in the galaxy.

Might isn't really right. Its just a fact of life that Might is the force that makes the rule of law, runs politics, decides who gets the bigger share of the resource pie etc.

No you didn't. As long as every Ork fight for himself and not for his race supremacy we have the upper hand

Bah! Foolish Imperials! We Orks have seen the rise and fall of the Eldar and Human empires and seen both races now stand on the precipice of extinction. Something we do not suffer from, instead we thrive. We Orks have WON! Get over it .

In a way the Orks have won. They may not be the dominant race in the galaxy, thanks to their chronic anarchy, but for them survival is guaranteed at the least. "The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude." - From Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

Doesn't mean we'll just lie down and die though. The greatest strength of Mankind is that our sheer will and drive to defy fate and make our own destiny has allowed us to triumph time and time again, to the great surprise and anger of our enemies (Farseers and Chaos Powers.)

At least you admit that we Orks have won .

Pilau Rice wrote:

Politics and such suck but its the way of the world.

I've never said anything to the contrary, so I am not sure what your point is? If the Imperium handled the situation better then the Interex never would have had to raise arms, that's the point.

I agreed with you on this but the quotes you posted also showed that the Interex also didn't handle the situation better as well.

Exactly, why not comply with the requests of the Interex until Horus was absolved. This is a point I raised earlier, nice to see that you agree with me.

I assume Horus didn't want to comply cause he was worried about his life and the life of his team. Remember, my post earlier about seeing it from the Imperials perspective.

Thats why asked why didn't the Interex try a compromise.

It's described as being a sentient blade, that's all the book says, that the Kinbrach created it and it is sentient.

Great! No details .

As well as being Xenos and Psykers, yes, but that's irrelevant as they were more than likely wiped out, which is what the question was about.


Doesn't make a difference, they were wiped out. You are making an assumption there, as you are with the Anathame.

I didn't make that question.

Agreed in that I am speculating but it fits the facts. A sentient machine race existing just after the era of the Age of Strife? Sounds like DAoT AI to me and thats why they got exterminated.

So why did Horus even bother with a half assed attempt at diplomacy?

Cause he wanted to integrate the Interex back into the human fold peacefully. It simply didn't work out.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
Might IS right, both in our world and in 40k. In our world, it's just not as obvious and 'direct' as in 40k, but in 40k, that's the only thing that allows any race to claim a spot in the galaxy.

So why did Horus even bother with a half assed attempt at diplomacy?

It's called gunboat diplomacy...

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Bah! Foolish Imperials! We Orks have seen the rise and fall of the Eldar and Human empires and seen both races now stand on the precipice of extinction. Something we do not suffer from, instead we thrive. We Orks have WON! Get over it .

Orks didn't won by a longshot. AS long the Humanity reign supreme in the galaxy so it will be so.
Orks will never unite and overrun the galaxy, get over it

Quite. The battle for survival is theirs, but dominance over the galaxy belongs to us Humans. I doubt we could have destroyed the Orks even if the Heresy didn't occur, but since all Humans would be psykers, we could just predict a Waaaaagggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and stop it by attacking through the Webway to keep the mobs small and fighting one another instead of forming a Waaaaagggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Seriously? you want me to provide sources that the Emperor instituted a policy of killing xenos? I assumed The Emperor's crusade to take the galaxy by force for humanity is common knowledge. The Imperial Truth also espouses the purity of the human form, and his manifest destiny to rule the Milky Way quite clearly. The Emperor was a bigot. He had plenty of standing exterminate on site orders.

The only know one race that was exterminated in that time: Laeran. And that was not him, that was his son Fulgrim.

Fulgrim did this to prove a point. The Imperium's reasons for not attacking the Laer was that it would take too much time and they were content to stay on their planet. When everyone heard about it, they tried to stop him because of the casualties they would cause, not because of the race that would die. It was regarded as a pretty normal thing to do.

I also know that many Eldar exodite worlds was destroyed by - Fulgrim again. There is no mention of Emperor anywhere in the text. So that was his sons, not him.

So you're suggesting the Emperor had no idea that things like that would happen?

I certainly don't recall Emperor ordering World Eaters to butcher population of every world they liberate as it was stated in Index Astartes 3.

Well maybe you should recall that he did order the murder of races such as the Nurthene when he found they couldn't be convinced to join the Imperium. And it was standard practise too, a Space Wolf commander was considered to be going soft because he didn't secure a planet's allegiance before aiding them against Dark Eldar. Both long before the Emperor left for Terra.

And I agree with his policy: in a galaxy that doesen't give a for you you don't give a to it. Aliens attacked Mankind, waged wars on it and all in the time it was most vulnerable ( Age of Strife ). Humans never forget this, and they never will. And this is why policy of "Only Humans" was introduced in his teachings. Being that only Xenos then were Eldar, Tau and some minor species - I don't have a problem with it.

The policy of humans only came long before the Age of Strife, or perhaps you thought that there were no sentient species on the planets humans took for their own during the Golden Age? Tau were still hitting each other with sticks at that time, and it's foolish to assume the Eldar were the only aliens around.

Furthermore Durza you can't say "they would unite with Tau and Eldar" because you think like 21'st century Human. Try to think like 301'st century Human or 401'st one.
Eldar are Xenofobic and hate Humans A LOT ( probably because they rule the Galaxy now instead of them ) and Tau ask every other race to succumb to their rule and their beliefs. Humans are to proud to that and because of our "peaceful" history with them we would never consoder this because they will only use us and then throw us away ( like Eldar, most of the time ).

Eldar hate humans for refusing to learn from their mistakes, and for being xenophobic bigots. They are nowhere near as xenophobic as the humans, and who can blame them for attacking a race which would gladly wipe them out just for existing?

And for all of those that think I am trolling:

The orks have won. They have not lost a single battle. They just come back for more. Humankind in its current form are pathetic shards of the Golden age. Besides, we all know that the Tau will mind controll the orks and rule the galaxy

Space Crusader