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G'day everyone.

I was wondering if an ork horde army could be a competitve choice for an upcoming tournament, 1500 pts.

If it is could you please tell me if you have any ideas.

If not a good idea, please voice your opinion and tell me what would be a good competitive 1500 pts force.

Cheers, Old Sledgeaxe.


If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the F**K down!!

Very much so, if played right.

Shoota Boyz can project power up to 18" from the unit and throw out buckets of dakka. Power Klaws on their Nobs take care of vehicles nicely.

They are, but it is pretty much a go big or go home affair.

Always take squads of 30 to protect yourself from IG PBSs. And have some sort of fast close combat element that detracts firepower from your boyz. Maybe Nobz in a Battlewagon.

IG and Dawn of War missions are the things that hurt the list the most, and has pushed horde Orks to the second tier.

Mahu wrote:
Always take squads of 30 to protect yourself from IG PBSs.

Always take squads of 30, because squads of 30 are proper.

And have some sort of fast close combat element that detracts firepower from your boyz. Maybe Nobz in a Battlewagon.

This I do not agree with. One of the strengths of the ork horde is that you are denying your opponent shots for their anti-vehicle guns. Bringing a battlewagon simply undoes that. When you drop 180 boyz in a 1500 point game, you're telling your opponent that no matter what he does, he can't kill enough of your models to win a game. When you dilute this with a few small, higher-cost units, you allow your opponent to make up for this.

IG and Dawn of War missions are the things that hurt the list the most, and has pushed horde Orks to the second tier.

I disagree with both of these claims. IG might build a chimera wall, but you have enough rokkits to fire on the move to cut out some of their firepower. And, most of the guard lists I've seen have a lot more anti-vehicle fire than anti-horde. Done right, you can set up cover saves from most of their weapons, and if you lose a handful of guys to their 'ignore cover' stuff, well, you have a ton more where they came from. And, once you close the distance, they're toast. They're not going to beat you with their few men, and one unit of 30 boys can assault multiple tanks at once. Every glance is one tank that can't shoot the next turn, and one tank that's passengers have to either get out (and be wiped out the next turn) or not shoot.

As for Dawn of War, when I run my horde orks, Dawn of War hurts my opponents as much, if not more, than it hurts me. I can start 60 orks and my forcefield at midfield, and that means that my shootas can start shooting early. Or, if my opponent deploys at midfield, I've got those 60 boyz within 18" of whatever he deployed. Being able to run means that the rest of the horde can catch up, and again, in 1750, I can field a list with 180+ models and only 8 KP, with every non-HQ being a scoring unit. 30 boyz in cover aren't shifting off an objective easily. 30 boyz aren't giving up a KP easily.

The biggest issues facing real horde orks are how much time it takes to move them - most tournaments aren't set up to make it easy to play that many models within the time limits - and how long it takes to paint them...


Edit:
At 1750, you can do some other sick stuff too:
Grotsnik
30 'ard boyz
150 other boyz

(All boyz units with PK nob, 3 rokkits)

This means that you have your 4+ save, FNP squad out in front, giving cover to everyone else as they advance up the field. Perhaps even a better way of getting cover to everyone else than the mek.

here is competative horde,

Ghazkull
Snitgrot+full unit
Zagstruck+full unit
Zogwort

As many 30boy shoota mobz you can fit in whats left of your points.

thats a hellof a hard list to beat. with snitgrot and zagstruck taging care of any barrage weapons and zogwort turning princes,Commanders,farseers to slugs.
Ghazkull is there for the unkillableness and 6 inch fleet move from waaghh in case zagstruck doesnt land within 6 of a target.

Redbeard wrote:
The biggest issues facing real horde orks are how much time it takes to move them - most tournaments aren't set up to make it easy to play that many models within the time limits - and how long it takes to paint them...

Couldn't agree more. Since the start of last year's 'Ard Boyz, I've lost exactly one game with green tide, and I'm still getting better at it. The only issue is that I haven't won as big as I could have otherwise, as tournament settings and the inherit time limits often prevent green tide lists from getting more than four turns at large point values. At the 1500 point level which the OP is indicating, however, there should be plenty of time to get those Boyz in and massacre the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrdabba wrote:here is competative horde,

Ghazkull
Snitgrot+full unit
Zagstruck+full unit
Zogwort

As many 30boy shoota mobz you can fit in whats left of your points.

thats a hellof a hard list to beat. with snitgrot and zagstruck taging care of any barrage weapons and zogwort turning princes,Commanders,farseers to slugs.
Ghazkull is there for the unkillableness and 6 inch fleet move from waaghh in case zagstruck doesnt land within 6 of a target.

Too much flashy stuff here, which violates the first rule of Ork Horde armies: "Boys before Toys". I would take at most one of the specialty units listed, probably Snikrot. Zogwart is "interesting", but unless you've got a nasty IC theme amongst your usual opponents, I wouldn't bother spending the points on this guy. And while Ghaz is cool for his Prophet abilities, do keep in mind that Stormboyz had the Waaghh special rule taken away in the Ork FAQ, so they don't benefit from the one turn of fleet, nor do they run 6" automatically on that turn. For every Stormboy or Kommando added to a list, that's 2-3 Boyz that are taken away. Sure, take some utility units, but no more than are required to get the job done.

Yeah.

Here is a very simple horde list

HQ
Warboss w/ bike, attack squig, power klaw, cybork body
Warboss w/ bike, attack squig, power klaw, cybork body

Troops
Ork boyz (slugga or shoota, you pick) x30 w/ nob, power klaw, bosspole
Ork boyz (slugga or shoota, you pick) x30 w/ nob, power klaw, bosspole
Ork boyz (slugga or shoota, you pick) x30 w/ nob, power klaw, bosspole
Ork boyz (slugga or shoota, you pick) x30 w/ nob, power klaw, bosspole
Ork boyz (slugga or shoota, you pick) x30 w/ nob, power klaw, bosspole
Gretchin x26/Runtherd x2

I would think about dropping one Warboss for a KFF mek and the grots to tool up the mobs with rokkits.

I also like to run a specialist mob or two at 1750. Stormboys are good for tank hunting at speed. Lootas are alright, though I'm starting to think Snikrot might be better to dissuade opponents from castling so much.

Da Boss wrote:I would think about dropping one Warboss for a KFF mek and the grots to tool up the mobs with rokkits.

I also like to run a specialist mob or two at 1750. Stormboys are good for tank hunting at speed. Lootas are alright, though I'm starting to think Snikrot might be better to dissuade opponents from castling so much.

I respectfully disagree with putting any rokkits on the boyz. They need to be running not shooting.

drummerholt1234 wrote:I respectfully disagree with putting any rokkits on the boyz. They need to be running not shooting.

Agreed.

I've wrestled with this for a while not, and I still don't see a situation where ork boyz need rokkit launchers. The only vehicles that boys (or the attached nob) really can't hurt are land raiders and monoliths, neither of which will care very much about the 1/18 rokkits that will even glance their armor. You've got to find somewhere else to get your vehicle killing done from range.

I think that the 2 Bike warbosses can take care of every vehicle out there even a monolith. 6 S10 attacks should take care of even AV14 vehicles and since you won't see more than 3-4 of them I say that it's no something to worry about to much.

I disagree, having played this successfully for a while now.

You lose 0 attacks if you have a rokkit in a shoota squad, and only 1 in a slugga squad. If a rokkit kills one marine all game, it made its points back.

But, I find that there are often enough things that shooting is worthwhile. 3 orks with rokkits are more likely to hit with one than a marine with a missile launcher. If you're already close, shoot a transport, as you can then assault the contents. If your only option is assaulting the transport, then whatever you do it it, the contents are free to shoot you next turn, and if that includes templates it is going to hurt.

Putting a wound or two on a carnifex before an assault is good. Hitting a wraithlord can mean the difference in a turn of being locked in combat with it or not. Rokkits are good against lash princes.

You get tactical flexibility if you have them in the list. If you never fire them, because running was smarter in that situation, well, it's not that many points. But if you can shake one vindicator, or hammerhead, that one rokkit saved a lot of boyz. In those cases, perhaps running isn't so important.

Redbeard wrote:
I disagree with both of these claims. IG might build a chimera wall, but you have enough rokkits to fire on the move to cut out some of their firepower. And, most of the guard lists I've seen have a lot more anti-vehicle fire than anti-horde. Done right, you can set up cover saves from most of their weapons, and if you lose a handful of guys to their 'ignore cover' stuff, well, you have a ton more where they came from. And, once you close the distance, they're toast. They're not going to beat you with their few men, and one unit of 30 boys can assault multiple tanks at once. Every glance is one tank that can't shoot the next turn, and one tank that's passengers have to either get out (and be wiped out the next turn) or not shoot.

It really, really depends on the guard army. I personally see the horde army as a fine answer to a mech guard force, which is certainly popular right now, but you'd have a very hard time against a shooty/Straken guard army, with blob squads and lots of pie plates.

Also, spamming Valks seems to be popular now too, and this army would have a tough time handling that. (Assuming they've got some blasts, of course, if its all Vendettas then you're golden.)

Rokkits lend utility, but what about on Shoota boy squads? Since their shooting actually matters, is it a big deal that you are wasting it to spit a couple rokkits at a tank?

With my horde, i take two force fields, about 150 boys (squads are always upgraded to the max, Nobs get klaws), dreads and kans. I always make sure that everyone is in my bubble, Kans and dreads are in front of the boys so the boys get 4+ cover (atleast some of the time). Shield gives Kans and dreads obscured. And im good to go.

DarkHound wrote:Rokkits lend utility, but what about on Shoota boy squads? Since their shooting actually matters, is it a big deal that you are wasting it to spit a couple rokkits at a tank?

Ok, let's say you're playing against mech-guard, or mech-eldar, or mech-MEQ or mech-sisters, or... you get the picture.

So, all your opponent's crunchy bits are safely packed away inside transports that may well contain flamers that are coming towards you, and you're worried about "wasting" the S4 shots that would otherwise bounce off the hulls of these tanks.

What part of the meta-game turning towards mech aren't you getting? And, as the meta-game turns to mech, you stand to gain even more from running non-mech, as everyone will tool up to fight the mech stuff. The more people that bring meltas, and the less that bring flamers, the better off footsloggin orks are.

But, you still have to account for this metagame shift in what you bring, so you bring rokkits. Because if all of your opponent's based models are tucked safely away inside Valkyries, Waveserpents, Chimeras and Rhinos, your shootas aren't doing dick.

When you think about it lootas would be better than rokkits as they are cheeper and fire more shots.

Biker Warbosses are a bad idea with an otherwise entirely foot-slogging army. Why? Because if you leave them out on their own, they are meat for anti-tank weaponry, and if you attach them to a squad, then the squad cannot run. Only take a biker Warboss if you have some Warbikes to soak the hits before he reaches close combat.

For a horde list I was going to run this:

Ghaz
21 Lootas
120 Boyz (units of 20 with a PK in each)

1500pts

Its simple its got dakka and it will beat the crap out of anything.

What about hordes of Slugga Boyz? Sure you have 6" shorter shooting range and only one shot each, but there's a massive difference between 60 attacks and 80 attacks.

Just be sure to keep a KFF Mek in the thick of it. I have my Nobz (and a Warboss) in Trukks on the flanks so that they can zip fowards when needed and a large mob of Gretchin to provide a coversave, further adding the the survivability of my Boyz.

Cheese Elemental wrote:What about hordes of Slugga Boyz? Sure you have 6" shorter shooting range and only one shot each, but there's a massive difference between 60 attacks and 80 attacks.

Overall, shootas are better. Some sluggas are good, but shootas have more overall advantages. A shoota boy is still decent in combat, and 30+nob will beat a lot of things. But, they can also fire at the things they won't beat.

Just be sure to keep a KFF Mek in the thick of it. I have my Nobz (and a Warboss) in Trukks on the flanks so that they can zip fowards when needed and a large mob of Gretchin to provide a coversave, further adding the the survivability of my Boyz.

The KFF was the best in 4th, when a 5+ save was as good as you were likely to get most places. I think grotsnik+hard boyz is a seriously good option now. You have your unit with 4+ save+FNP in front, and everyone else gets a 4+cover. The KFF only gives 5+.

I never thought of that using Grosnik and ardboyz as a meat shield, I will have to try that one out.

After playing orks in 5th edition a lot I've come up with a few basics for successful armies, some of which im glad to see many of you have mentioned.

Grotsnick with lots of 'ard boys is one of my very favorite units. It is virtually unkillable, and even if they finaly do, it took well worth it's points in firepower to do it. Not to mention the cyborking bodies for 5 pts is amazing to utilize on expensive units like weirdboys and warbosses, and never forget to do it to grotsnick himself.

Lootas is another unit that has a special place in my heart. Each boy virtualy has an auto cannon and can lay waist to armored units and small vehicles alike. with great range, place a couple units of these guys in back and dakka dakka dakka

Grots seem completely useless in the new rules when you look at the stats. they nolonger give invonorable saves to shooting of help movement through difficult terrain. Y not get a boy instead of 2 grots? well they actually are still very handy when used properly. The new 'firing through units' rule lets them work as sheilds to the orks still. Only troops can hold objectives so let the grots hold it while letting ur orks continue to the charge. And they can laydown some impressive firepower to lines of low armored units like guardsmen. And, most importantly, they dont run. EVERY TIME the grot squad fails it's morral, a squig kills d3 of them and then you reroll it again. the more grots, the longer you can keep this up. Especially in small point games, i love fielding some grots.

The new ordinance rules are very forgiving to orks now. I usually field looted wagons w boom guns (battle cannons) and a battle wagon with killikannon (battle cannon -1 str). They are all AP3 making them SO deadly to a mass of space marines, and are a unit truley to be feared.

Now oddly enough i always field lots of tankbustas, yet am always disappointed. If you put the numbers to it, they are worth it and get them, but personal experience still leaves them at disappointment. But field them anyway because they SHOULD be great

Stormboys are great for one main purpose, they are SCARY! any army that is heavy range like imperial guard or tue will fire all they got to make sure they don't get into close combat as soon as they are going to. My stormboys always die in the first turn, but they are always killed to the very last man because one ork nob can kick some trash and ur enemy knows it. The units behind go untouched for another turn.

I always field weirdboys with an elite anti-tank unit like meganobs or tankbustas. They can telleport (putting you behind the tanks), get a ZZZap str 10 ap 1 AUTO HIT, or give an extra attack in close combat wich is great for powerclaw units or tankbusters bombs. It is acctualy a fairly small chance that you get a spell that won't help. I would keep them with larger units to use their mob up for his psycic test. I would also suggest to NOT upgrade him to a weirdboy. If used properly, not many of spells would be a bad result, and it costs 40 points (15 more and get another weirdboy, thats what i do). In a realy small game (500 -) weirdboys make a good HQ to lead ur two troops through combat.

Put a nob w powerclaw in EVERY unit you plan to have up front. Yes they are expensive, but only one of them needs to kill a Leman Russ to make up the points for all of them combined.

Ork armies allow incredible flexability to match any persons needs. From Speed to troggen to firepower, orks got ur back


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and one more thing to add to above, Killa Kans are also great for taking fire like storm boys. They are relatively cheep and will draw the opponents anti-tank power quite well.

And, most importantly, they dont run. EVERY TIME the grot squad fails it's morral, a squig kills d3 of them and then you reroll it again. the more grots, the longer you can keep this up. Especially in small point games, i love fielding some grots.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, as that would be rerolling a reroll.

Pipboy101 wrote:I never thought of that using Grosnik and ardboyz as a meat shield, I will have to try that one out.

This tactic stills suffers greatly against the new IG. Eradicators and Collousus will make quick work of the ard boy unit, which will leave the rest of your army unprotected. Very much all eggs in one basket.

Why is it that everytime someone brings up horde orks people start talking about colossus and eradicator fire?

Who uses either of those models? Nobody, that's who! Look at the lists on these forums. Check out all the 'mech vet' threads. Heavy support slots are always filled with executioners, demolishers, hydras, medusas... never eradicators or colossuses (collosi?).

Not so say that 'ard boys have nothing to worry about, but bringing those models up as the easy counter is like bringing up flash gits as the perfect answer to terminators - it may be true (it's not), but nobody uses them!

Malecus wrote:

mrdabba wrote:here is competative horde,

Ghazkull
Snitgrot+full unit
Zagstruck+full unit
Zogwort

As many 30boy shoota mobz you can fit in whats left of your points.

thats a hellof a hard list to beat. with snitgrot and zagstruck taging care of any barrage weapons and zogwort turning princes,Commanders,farseers to slugs.
Ghazkull is there for the unkillableness and 6 inch fleet move from waaghh in case zagstruck doesnt land within 6 of a target.

Too much flashy stuff here, which violates the first rule of Ork Horde armies: "Boys before Toys". I would take at most one of the specialty units listed, probably Snikrot. Zogwart is "interesting", but unless you've got a nasty IC theme amongst your usual opponents, I wouldn't bother spending the points on this guy. And while Ghaz is cool for his Prophet abilities, do keep in mind that Stormboyz had the Waaghh special rule taken away in the Ork FAQ, so they don't benefit from the one turn of fleet, nor do they run 6" automatically on that turn. For every Stormboy or Kommando added to a list, that's 2-3 Boyz that are taken away. Sure, take some utility units, but no more than are required to get the job done.

But aren't stormboyz jump infantry that may roll an extra d6" and add it to their move WITHOUT any shooting or assault penalty, unlike running?

orkishlyorkish wrote:

Malecus wrote:

mrdabba wrote:here is competative horde,

Ghazkull
Snitgrot+full unit
Zagstruck+full unit
Zogwort

As many 30boy shoota mobz you can fit in whats left of your points.

thats a hellof a hard list to beat. with snitgrot and zagstruck taging care of any barrage weapons and zogwort turning princes,Commanders,farseers to slugs.
Ghazkull is there for the unkillableness and 6 inch fleet move from waaghh in case zagstruck doesnt land within 6 of a target.

Too much flashy stuff here, which violates the first rule of Ork Horde armies: "Boys before Toys". I would take at most one of the specialty units listed, probably Snikrot. Zogwart is "interesting", but unless you've got a nasty IC theme amongst your usual opponents, I wouldn't bother spending the points on this guy. And while Ghaz is cool for his Prophet abilities, do keep in mind that Stormboyz had the Waaghh special rule taken away in the Ork FAQ, so they don't benefit from the one turn of fleet, nor do they run 6" automatically on that turn. For every Stormboy or Kommando added to a list, that's 2-3 Boyz that are taken away. Sure, take some utility units, but no more than are required to get the job done.

But aren't stormboyz jump infantry that may roll an extra d6" and add it to their move WITHOUT any shooting or assault penalty, unlike running?

Yes, you're absolutely right, Stormboyz get an extra d6" of movement in the movement phase, but the point that mrdabba was trying to make was that Ghaz's special Waaaghh would guarantee the Stormboyz an extra 6" before assaulting on the turn they landed from deepstrike, thereby giving them the ability to assault anything that they landed within 12" of. That doesn't work because they don't have access to the Waaaghh movement, having lost it in the errata. Thus they have to land within 6" of their intended target, making a deepstrike mishap much more likely.

Raxmei wrote:

And, most importantly, they dont run. EVERY TIME the grot squad fails it's morral, a squig kills d3 of them and then you reroll it again. the more grots, the longer you can keep this up. Especially in small point games, i love fielding some grots.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, as that would be rerolling a reroll.

The rules clearly state "Every time the mob has to take a moral test" wich means yes, I can reroll a reroll