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2023/04/21 19:50:49
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Ahtman wrote: I was initially worried they would just have a nice, clean end for Picard/TNG and not setup a spin off or new series but luckily they assuaged my fears.
Spoiler:
Apparently many missed the mid credit Q appearance. Not sure how I feel about it honestly. The Q aren't linear and it is always a treat to see DeLancie but Q had a nice way to go out along with the rest of TNG.
.
Well
Spoiler:
it was a good scene to end a truely stupid and dire plot that was S2 - just watched the new scene on youtube and happy it was there....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/21 19:51:10
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
My niggling complaint is they didn’t get Whoopi in there for that last scene. They name drop her as being in the room with them, but can’t show her. I forgot S2 ended with Q’s death, and not just dying. Would have been great to have her and Q sitting at a table together in the background of the others at their card game.
2023/04/21 20:14:18
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
In a series plagued by endings that always felt too short, rushed, fast and just a little over the top here and there - series 3 ends perfectly with a brilliant ST feel to it.
That was a freaking awesome episode and ending! Worth the dark ride of the underbelly of the Federation to get too!
Yes there were a few cheesy spots, but everything was just pure ST style and cheese and everything. I enjoyed proper closure to the Borg presented (and yet they still are not fully gone for there's still that new collective sitting at the wormhole's entrance).
For time and Space Dock - they might have built it in a year, or they pulled another station in from another location and beefed it up in status and such.
For Q don't think linear. Q likely did die in season 2. He, however, isn't bound by linear time as we are. So the Q that died then is, as we might understand it, the older version of the Q who now appear. And yet because he's likely non-linear the Q we have now might well have died or remember that death or something like that. It's likely tricky to apply linear logic to a non-linear being.
Also I want to say that I think its such a "Trek" thing that an actress, basically brought on to wear the tightest suit they could find in an attempt to use "boobies" to restore flagging viewer numbers; has gone on to come out the other end as one of the stronger leads and is now poised to potentially be a captain in a whole new season of Star Trek. Or at least if the ending is to be believed that's what's very much set in potential motion.
Who knows perhaps it ends here, or perhaps we get some proper Trek once again! Now huge time jumps or turbolift alternate dimensions or anything!
Gert wrote: My favourite fun fact about Seven of Nine is the theory that her introduction to prevent Voyager from tanking further helped Obama get elected.
Can you tell us more? Or provide a link if it’s perhaps overly political for Dakka!
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
So Jeri Ryan got cast in Voyager which put a strain on her marriage and led to divorce. In 2004 her ex-husband was selected as the Republican nominee for the Senate in Illinois at which point the reason for the divorce became public (naughty stuff) and he had to withdraw. Obama then won the Senate election which paved the way for him to become President in 2008.
Therefore, Voyager's poor ratings led to Obama getting the presidency.
It's just a theory but a funny one nonetheless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/21 20:54:16
2023/04/23 15:48:46
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Read up on it, and I do not agree with a private News Channel being able to sue for sealed court documents which those party to the case didn’t want unsealed.
Anyways.
Where are my Ferengi??
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Gert wrote: So Jeri Ryan got cast in Voyager which put a strain on her marriage and led to divorce. In 2004 her ex-husband was selected as the Republican nominee for the Senate in Illinois at which point the reason for the divorce became public (naughty stuff) and he had to withdraw. Obama then won the Senate election which paved the way for him to become President in 2008.
Therefore, Voyager's poor ratings led to Obama getting the presidency.
It's just a theory but a funny one nonetheless.
I've never heard this before but it's a fething fascinating thing.
Stick with Orvile, it’s one of the better “Star Trek” shows, and was really kind of a bait and switch pulled on Fox in that it’s not his full bore usual comedy style. Gets pretty deep, and the most recent season after it left Fox gets Really dark and kind of depressing in many spots.
2023/04/27 19:55:11
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Wait until you watch the Communicator, which I'd rank as easily the 2nd worst episode of Star Trek ever made, where the character tell the boldest lies (for absolutely no reason) and heightens the tensions of a potential world war (again, for absolutely no reason) and then the story just totally glosses over this monster feth up of global potentially millions of people are going to die proportions as a 'oops, live and learn' moment.
Alright, was out of town so just got to watch the last two episodes now. I don't know, I just feel like this now when I see The Borg . Like...again with The Borg? One of the things I liked about this season was they had a great non-borg villain for once. Like all this buildup with The Changelings and then suddenly.... The Borg. The evil plot is just ridiculously convoluted now.
Anyway, I will admit it was fun to see the gang back together again but it's time to call it a day for them. Seems like it's going to spin off in some way with Jack Crusher and possibly the La Forge sisters? The Next, Next Generation?
2023/05/01 18:17:58
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
LordofHats wrote: Wait until you watch the Communicator, which I'd rank as easily the 2nd worst episode of Star Trek ever made, where the character tell the boldest lies (for absolutely no reason) and heightens the tensions of a potential world war (again, for absolutely no reason) and then the story just totally glosses over this monster feth up of global potentially millions of people are going to die proportions as a 'oops, live and learn' moment.
Is it as bad as the Voyager Boxing episode?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
This whole season was essentially fan service to close out the TNG series so it makes sense that the most associated baddie from TNG would be part of that ending. Sort of an Undiscovered Country* for the TNG era.
*They didn't kill off the Klingons, obliviously, but it narratively marked a radical change in their approach and place in the Star Trek universe.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2023/05/01 20:00:43
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Also lets not forget that Season 2 ended with a remade kind of Borg existing as well.
I think Seasons 1 and 2 did bold things with Picard and I think they also nicely established him in his new position and as a character. They helped bridge the gap between TNG and Season 3.
But yeah Season 3 just feels like the writing, actors and everything just "clicked" together really well.
I do get the "Oh its the Borg again" angle as I would also have loved another faction or race; but as closure to the whole season and as a big closure to Picard's character I think it was a fantastic close and also intro to a potential new season and adventure.
Yes, but season 2 also felt like a closure of the Borg book. They basically had a peace treaty with them. To bring them back as the villain you just punch out yet again after that is diminishing returns. Voyager also ended with a boss battle against them and all of this stuff in inferior to First Contact IMO.
I thought the baddie they might bring back that would be cool is the Jem'Hadar. They would probably make them look really cool after upgrading their effect and makeup.
2023/05/01 23:25:04
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Borg do have a bit of a "didn't we kill you before?" Feel to them I agree. I've felt it ever since we saw Borg after Voyager's end, so I was glad to see the Queen in this one half dead and a sign that the Borg had indeed been hit by Voyager's move.
It explained a good chunk of things.
Also season 2 wasn't really an end to the Borg, it was a start of new Borg and potentially also leaving a bit of a hanger for them doing adventures in another Galaxy with the new rift opening.
I saw Season 2 as a way to keep the Borg going as a concept with a new twist; meanwhile Season 3 killed off the old-guard of the Borg; or at least their primary queen, with potential that there might be other Cubes floating around isolated/disconnected and such.
Ahtman wrote: I get wanting to see a different antagonist but considering the nature of the season I'm not surprised it went the way it did.
What I want is V'ger to make a comeback.
V'ger can only come back once they hire an outstanding cinematographer and CGI team to pull off V'Ger again.
I do, however, soft like the fact that we never found the race that created V'Ger and that you could almost see that the robots from Season 1 Picard could be part of that tale.
Ahtman wrote: I get wanting to see a different antagonist but considering the nature of the season I'm not surprised it went the way it did.
What I want is V'ger to make a comeback.
V'ger can only come back once they hire an outstanding cinematographer and CGI team to pull off V'Ger again.
I do, however, soft like the fact that we never found the race that created V'Ger and that you could almost see that the robots from Season 1 Picard could be part of that tale.
Or.....The Borg. Could have been The Borg.
2023/05/02 20:12:55
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
The Season 1 robots - who I quite liked but were so unbelievably stupid they thought that giving someone a new body with all the diseases, damage and problems of old age was a good idea.
I sort of think each season of Picard was in its own, incrasingly stupid universe but thats being generous to the "writers"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/02 20:13:13
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Some people (in this case either the writers or directors) are really invested in the idea that immortality or nigh-immortality is a problem.
But honestly in this case it just seems a cruel way to go about it. Just forgo the pain and if he's really invested in dying, just run a couple simulations to give a likely death day and put in a X year 'death toggle' with +/- 100 days.
Personally, I think it would have been more interesting if they'd focused on the fact that this is really a completely different entity that just happens to be running a Picard personality emulator.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/05/02 20:57:28
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2023/05/02 21:00:06
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
If memory serves, it was a prototype Soong Jr had been working on. I don’t think they asked Picard if he wanted the full body prosthesis.
My guess is they felt shunting his mind into a new body without consent is one thing, with shunting it into a near immortal new body without consent is quite another.
Been a while since I watched that season, so it may be more explicit in the show.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I think a bit part of Soongs work was to try and create "perfect" artificial life. That included everything from learning to emotions to even the concept of old age and death.
Soong did it once before for his wife; built her a body that would naturally age, wither and die upon a set date. Picard's body appears to be an extension of that desire to not just create an artificial body but create a perfect copy of organic life with machine life.
I suspect some part of him wanted to create as perfect a copy, so that includes all the downsides that came with age, not just the growing old part.
I truly do not understand why anyone would want the pain and degredation that is growing old.....I see it in enough people in my life to know it is awful and now its coming for me....
I recall the anti-longevity nonsense in the Altered Carbon tv series - they should really read the Culture novels and lets face it in Trek there are no real issues with peope living much longer lives - especially when you have some races like Vulcans who already do but apparently its a bad thing for humans
Lastly if and when you have had enough - its not like you can't choose to die
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/05/02 21:32:31
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Part of the human condition one might argue. If you remove the fear of death or the drive to live life to the fullest while you can, what's the point in doing anything? Plus most of the pain associated with getting old isn't a super big concern in the Federation, except with Picard who kept not taking medication because he was miserable for other reasons.
2023/05/02 22:08:36
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Yeah I figure for many in the Federation old age isn't as painful as it is today. Chances are there's a lot of medical, herbal and "I know this alien" methods that can take away the pain, cure ailments and even if they can't keep you alive forever, chances are you have a peaceful end for most.
Certainly not like it is today. So chances are old age isn't quite as feared.
But I think with ST it also hinges on the "human condition" angle heavily as well. That old age, that mortality and such are parts of being alive, part of living and that as such if you aspire to be alive those are part of the deal. Or at least it has to be the case only for Soong. It is, after all, his research and development and thus it will be designed to his concept of what artificial life should be.
Others in the Federation alone might argue for different approaches; eg a life-timer; or simply no end or such.
