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Alan Ritchson (Reacher, TMNT) should be Picard. Now is the time for jacked Picard; the world is ready for it this time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
Going back to the BSG well, one of the things I found intriguing but never got fully explored is the fact that the 12 colonies know that they came from somewhere else in the universe, but so long ago it’s all myth and rumour, so having Voyager: The Next Generation being literal is a really interesting idea. A bunch of young people trying to reach an almost mythical homeland, not because they’ve ever seen it, but to honour the wishes of their forebears.

There’s definitely fun to be had there. What happens when a short term exploration ship becomes a generational ship?

Just, from the start? Agree “no faster than Warp” engine solution. Keep that physics fixed. And expand how long the journey will take. Perhaps allow a Wormhole here and there to shave off some years. But make it a gruelling Wagon Train To The Stars type affair.

Throw in one of those portal things. I can’t for the life of me google it or remember the name. But the one the Jem Hadar try to use. That one. Let some of the crew return, so Starfleet knows they survived.

And whilst we’re retconning? When Picard bumps off the Borg Queen? The Borg as a unified whole are the done, allowing Voyager’s crew to see the aftermath. Maybe help the now aimless drones form a more benign society and that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact? Sod it. Let’s brainstorm a loose season arc. We’ll stick to the existing episode length, count and number of seasons.

I think I’d want Janeway still around for the first three seasons. Let it cover 30-40 years or so. Around the end of season 2, it becomes apparent she’s not as sharp as a Captain needs to be, and it’s time to appoint a successor, and consider who’s going to get trained in what from the younger folk. A line of succession if you like. Close of Season 3, she’s gone from old age.

Nevermind wagon train, your more into age of exploration, years from home in the “here be dragons” bit of the map, ruins of ancient civilisations, exotic cultures you could never even imagine, etc.

The portals you’re thinking of are the Iconians, but they’re tricky to use from a story-writing point of view as they’re so powerful and it can feel very contrived as to why you can’t just send everyone home instantly. Maybe have it glitching so that you can only send a transmission, or an inanimate object.

I like the idea of fragmented Borg, gives them a reason to be substantially less threatening, without having to muck around with species 8472 and, like you say, you can explore different styles of Borg, perhaps influenced by whatever drones were in that bit of the collective. You could also have a shattered transwarp system, which would give the ship a reason to interact with the Borg, rather than just fleeing in the opposite direction, because if you can find the right conduit it can bounce you several hundred light years in the right direction.

Season 1 could be survival mode; rationing, a dwindling crew desperately trying to adapt Federation principles to their new reality (a bit like Year of Hell, but maybe a little lighter). Season 2 could be the original crew, but settled into their new reality. A more hodgepodge ship, with various new crew members from different Delta quadrant species. Maybe the beginnings of the rag tag fleet, with aliens who hear about the ideals of the Federation and think, hmmm that sounds like a much better place to live. Maybe other refugees, lost or displaced into space. Season 3 is the next generation taking over from the last few original crew members and finding their own way.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
If you had to send one Star Trek ship and her crew to save the galaxy, who would you send?


1. Star Trek: Enterprise
- NX-01 Enterprise

2. Star Trek: The Original Series
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-A)

3. Star Trek: The Next Generation
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D)
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E)

4. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
- USS Defiant (NX-74205)

5. Star Trek: Voyager
- USS Voyager (NCC-74656)

6. Star Trek: Discovery
- USS Discovery (NCC-1031)

7. Star Trek: Picard
- USS Stargazer (NCC-82893)
- La Sirena (Rios' ship)

8. Star Trek: Lower Decks
- USS Cerritos (NCC-75567)

9. Star Trek: Prodigy
- USS Protostar (NCC-78915)

10. Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) (Captain Pike's ship)

11. Star Trek [Kelvin Timeline]
- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) (from the reboot films)

I think this is meant to be a fun way to state your favorite crew but in actuality if you need to save the galaxy you just need to send one person: Michael Burnham. She saves the Galaxy at least once a year all by herself. Not my favorite show but she is a professional universe saver...

The show Discovery did make the Enterprise grow in size by 300%... so anything is possible in that nightmare of a show.

It also took the concept of an elevator and made it operate in its own sub-dimension with micro-teleporters appearing to move the tube through the area. Which just made for one awesome fight sequence and Trek fans just baffled at the madness of the whole idea of a micro-universe just for the turbolift and - if its already teleporting struts in all the time - why not just teleport the crew a to b

Oh, and to answer my own question, I'd have to pick Janeway. Because even if she failed to save the day, she would figure out some sort of bizarre Time Travel nonsense to return from the future to repair the past... again.

 Overread wrote:
It also took the concept of an elevator and made it operate in its own sub-dimension with micro-teleporters appearing to move the tube through the area. Which just made for one awesome fight sequence and Trek fans just baffled at the madness of the whole idea of a micro-universe just for the turbolift and - if its already teleporting struts in all the time - why not just teleport the crew a to b

I'm watching the the series for the first time, and I really get the impression that the showrunners felt unrestrained 90% of the time, and then there would be fan backlash and the writers would backtrack a little and go... "Wait those were mirror universe/Section 31/etc" to explain away inconsistencies with the rest of the Star Trek shows that came before.

I forget what their reason for the Klingons growing their hair was. They were apparently all just shaving their heads in the first season but they decided to let it grow out in season two, which really hides the coneheads rather well.

Some sort of dumb religious war reason that then gets dropped forever after the Klingon Empire has to "evolve to survive".

 AduroT wrote:
I forget what their reason for the Klingons growing their hair was. They were apparently all just shaving their heads in the first season but they decided to let it grow out in season two, which really hides the coneheads rather well.

They say in the show that all Klingons shave their heads bald when they go to war.

Guess Martok or Gowron never went to war then. Neither did Kahless or any of the ancient Klingon heroes.

Some Picts used to go to war Skyclad. Now? Not so much.

Attitudes and traditions change.

Plus, the Disco Klingons were about “Stay Klingon”. Maintain a certain, perceived, purity.

Consider major global religions, and the sects within. Some maintain super strict traditions. Some are kinda lip service, and everything in between.

The weakness there is painting Klingons as a homogenous whole, rather than T’Kuvma being a radical outlier, and the resulting war being more than Klingons being Klingons, and just enjoying a really good punch up.

I just find it safer to assume Discovery and Strange New Worlds are a separate continuity to The Original Series...

Due to all the bits and pieces that can't connect... no matter how hard you hammer the octagonal block into the square hole.

Making anything fit with TOS is a losing battle. It's a show from the 60s with a limited budget and some exceptionally ropey stories that were the first step into what ended up being one of the biggest sci-fi properties ever.

To be clear, I'm not excusing the hairless Klingons or their weird ships but rather the likes of the Gorn being different to a dude in a rubber dinosaur costume or some SNW things not adding perfectly up with TOS.
Discovery should have been made to fit with the aesthetics set by Enterprise, which I believe SNW is doing much better.
The aesthetics are there, they're just made with modern technology and materials.

Or….

Only watch TNG and DS9.

Like am are wot sane peeople am does 🤣

Yeah even back when we only had TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager everyone generally agreed that whilst TOS was "cannon" there were a bunch of things in it that you just kind of overlooked or knew were a bit wonky and didn't translate into the more serious tone that TNG started.

Honestly one of the best things about Lower Decks was seeing them bring back a bunch of references to TOS stuff and honestly of many ST series Lower Decks actually probably does the best at trying to blend a bit of everything, primarily from the 4 major classic series - into one functional continuity .

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Due to all the bits and pieces that can't connect... no matter how hard you hammer the octagonal block into the square hole.

 AduroT wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Due to all the bits and pieces that can't connect... no matter how hard you hammer the octagonal block into the square hole.

You're right... the square hole!

I felt so bad for her.

I don’t get that reference.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don’t get that reference.

It's a video that Allison Burke put out the shows someone suffering to someone saying, Where does this shape go? And no matter the response given, he puts the shape in the square hole... and she becomes more distressed throughout the video.

https://youtu.be/6pDH66X3ClA?feature=shared

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don’t get that reference.

Allow me to enlighten you.

 Overread wrote:
It also took the concept of an elevator and made it operate in its own sub-dimension with micro-teleporters appearing to move the tube through the area. Which just made for one awesome fight sequence and Trek fans just baffled at the madness of the whole idea of a micro-universe just for the turbolift and - if its already teleporting struts in all the time - why not just teleport the crew a to b

Until that moment the dumbest moment in all Star Treks IMO was that time Janeway and Paris turned into Salamanders had babies and then somehow turned back into humans 5 minutes later. That somehow is not as dumb as the idea that the turbolift isn't a tube. It's a tube!!!!

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It also took the concept of an elevator and made it operate in its own sub-dimension with micro-teleporters appearing to move the tube through the area. Which just made for one awesome fight sequence and Trek fans just baffled at the madness of the whole idea of a micro-universe just for the turbolift and - if its already teleporting struts in all the time - why not just teleport the crew a to b

Until that moment the dumbest moment in all Star Treks IMO was that time Janeway and Paris turned into Salamanders had babies and then somehow turned back into humans 5 minutes later. That somehow is not as dumb as the idea that the turbolift isn't a tube. It's a tube!!!!

I must have suppressed the memory of watching that episode because I had completely forgotten about that whole bit. Initially I was "what are they talking about?" and slowly it started filtering through and now I am sad.

 Ahtman wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It also took the concept of an elevator and made it operate in its own sub-dimension with micro-teleporters appearing to move the tube through the area. Which just made for one awesome fight sequence and Trek fans just baffled at the madness of the whole idea of a micro-universe just for the turbolift and - if its already teleporting struts in all the time - why not just teleport the crew a to b

Until that moment the dumbest moment in all Star Treks IMO was that time Janeway and Paris turned into Salamanders had babies and then somehow turned back into humans 5 minutes later. That somehow is not as dumb as the idea that the turbolift isn't a tube. It's a tube!!!!

I must have suppressed the memory of watching that episode because I had completely forgotten about that whole bit. Initially I was "what are they talking about?" and slowly it started filtering through and now I am sad.

It makes be feel better to remember that Janeway would've killed every member of the Discovery after watching the Equinox two parter.

That's another bit I've been wondering about, oh forum, which Captain do you think was the most psychotic?

Between Archer's "I didn't have a choice," to Sisko's Cardassian outlook on sacrifices need to be made to the greater good to Janeways, "feth the timeliness, I'm getting my people home."

Burnham. The others might be occasionally harsh but they are generally consistent in their approach whereas Burnham is erratic and entirely about her own sense of self righteousness. She'll punch out her crewmates with little thought then go on to give a big speech about how great Starfleet is then immediately ignore Starfleet orders and regulations and follow that up with promoting an inexperienced ensign to Executive Officer. If we found out she was an agent sent to destabilize the crew and/or Starfleet it wouldn't be a surprise.

Sisko wasn’t psychotic. And Garak was absolutely right.

What they did was evil, but in the context of turning the tide of a war which would’ve seen the Alpha and Beta quadrants crushed in time? The literal handful of lives it cost were, beyond shadow of a doubt, worth it.

Hell, Starfleet Captains knowingly, and necessarily, risk the lives of their crew every single damned day. That comes with the job. Picard and Kirk have lost more lives in a single scrap than Sisko and Garak took that day. It’s that criminal (dead anyway as he was on a Klingon death row) Vreenak and his shuttle’s crew. Being the same approximate size as a Runabout. Memory Alpha suggests it had an estimated accommodation for 15. And presumably had a similar crew complement as a Danube class, so let’s call that three more, tops. And it’s possible Vreenak flew it himself (have just stuck it on my telly to confirm or deny that last bit, as I genuinely can’t remember if we see other Romulans with him)

So, we see two bodyguards board the station with Vreenak. But I can’t imagine they’d leave the ship entirely unguarded. Add a pilot, co-pilot, ops and probably two more guards, and I’d argue Sisko’s plan cost seven lives.

I’d agree Burnham. No idea how she gained captaincy with her long, opposite-of-glittering career of blatant insubordination and Just Sort Of Buggering Off For A Bit When It Suits Her.

Some might argue Jellicoe. But keep in mind whilst very different from Picard, he was the right man for the job when it came to dealing with Cardassians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bit of a commentary on In The Pale Moonlight whilst I’m at it.

Just noticed something I’ve not really clocked before. When Sisko goes to ask Garak for his help? Sisko demands he dispense with Garak’s usual frippery and double speak.

Garak knows from that point, even if Sisko doesn’t, he has carte blanche to go Full Garak. And tells Sisko that. Right there and then. To his face. It will be messy. It will be bloody.

Now I’m not claiming genius for spotting this, and I’m sure others made that waaaay before me. But what a fantastic scene. Solid script, outstanding acting from both.

We also get to see one of my favourite things about Star Trek. Garak, his cunning little grey cells whirring away whilst he maintains his usual obtuse exterior. And the impression that he’d conceived this entire plan ages ago, and that it’s but one of many he’s squirrelled away, waiting for the day when it’s the right plan.

And just a hint of satisfaction that, as he’s long known, The Federation are not the sickening goody two shoes they like to present themselves as. Garak is having fun.

I’ve just been on a DS9 rewatch and by God, are seasons 5-7 good (season 5 particularly). I always knew it was my favourite Star Trek, but I’d forgotten (or didn’t realise) why!

Innit! Still the odd duff episode here, but even when it’s average it’s still, in the grand scheme of things, perfectly decent.

The thing that made In the Pale Moonlight such a fantastic episode, beyond the performances being great, is its grasp of political realism which while dramatic is not hyperbolic in getting both the general point (the ends can justify the means) and horrible implications of that point (if the ends justify the means, then where is the line between good and evil, or is there really no line at all at a certain scale).

 Jadenim wrote:

Season 1 could be survival mode; rationing, a dwindling crew desperately trying to adapt Federation principles to their new reality (a bit like Year of Hell, but maybe a little lighter). Season 2 could be the original crew, but settled into their new reality. A more hodgepodge ship, with various new crew members from different Delta quadrant species. Maybe the beginnings of the rag tag fleet, with aliens who hear about the ideals of the Federation and think, hmmm that sounds like a much better place to live. Maybe other refugees, lost or displaced into space. Season 3 is the next generation taking over from the last few original crew members and finding their own way.

The problem with that approach is that people get attached to the original crew, and lose interest in the show when it jumps to new characters. Better to rip that bandaid off from the start - keep the original Voyager intro story, but then once they discover that they're stranded in the Delta Quadrant, immediately time jump to, say, 60 years in the future, with a crew now made up of the kids and grandkids of the original crew, and the sole remaining original crew member an infirm and on-the-edge-of-death Captain Kim.

Or, hell, go all in and remove all of the original crew and have their intergenerational replacements being led 'home' by the Doctor...