[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 148 : Arena expansion, new warzone and new models

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**Cephalobeard**

Blastaar wrote:
Sabotage! wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
I thoroughly enjoy GW's new design ethos of making games that are fun to play, and completely ignoring the "the only way to play is to play to win" crowd.

I second you on that good sir. Since the new CEO has taken over, and with their new game releases, I've really come back around to GW because of their design philosophy (rule of cool/games with emphasis on telling a cool story rather than WAAC).

Those things are not mutually exclusive. A game can have strong narrative elements, provide plentiful opportunities for decision making, and be fun all at once. Malifaux accomplishes this. And no, enjoying the challenge of competition does not make someone a bad person.

Quoting for emphasis.

**Papa-Schlumpf**

I have played Battle Companies, the LotR equivalent to Kill Team and pretty much enjoyed it. On an afternoon you can write a saga for your and your enemies warbands. It is pretty fun, as long as everybody takes a little bit of the "play for the drama" approach. Also you can test multiple factions with a small effort.
But some warbands/kill teams can get pretty OP, if they have a winning strike and luck with the dices in the aftermath phase. Also if you got "that guy" in your group, that always goes for the broken upgrades and wargear, the fun ends really fast. Nobody wants to play the target in somebodys shooting range.

I think Kill Team will have the same problems. Because it shares a lot with the Battle Companie ruleset.
Teams that are OP after a winning strike and equipment choices, that can be abused will haunt this game. All of that can be avoided, when playing with friends. But at the store it can turn out as the old minmax game.

**streetsamurai**

drbored wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
Genoside07 wrote:
So hanging out at the local FLGS one of the guys said that the Rogue Trader Box set will introduce new unit
types..Plus different types of heroes. Like inquisitors and more detailed psykers. of course more Kill zones..
I am sure a space ship will be it ; you can tell that by the pictures..

Then later on another box set will have light vehicles in it.. Don't know if he was just blowing smoke or
knew something..Anyone else hearing anything this??

Hope it's true. At the present state, the game seems to be much too shallow and restrictive for it to be enjoyable imo.
yi

Shallow is the new design paradigm at GW.

I think he's making a lot of assumptions. Many of the game boards, even the recommended terrain layouts, leave little to no room for anything larger than a 40mm base. So unless they're going to try to fit a vehicle on that, then I don't see the point of bringing a vehicle. Venoms are just going to get tangled up. Sentinels will be able to be seen from any angle. Plus the point cost for vehicles in Kill Team will likely be sky high and all it will take is a lucky shot from a fusion pistol and it's gone.

I'm not surprised by the idea that inquisitors and such are coming to Kill Team. That's something the design team has stated that they wanted and that the fanbase clearly wants. Inquisitorial warbands would be excellent.

There's also an interesting Tactic that Harlequins get that specifically targets 'Slaanesh' units. Currently, the only Slaanesh unit in the game is a Chaos Marine with a Mark of Slaanesh. Seems awfully specific to have a tactic against that one option. I foresee Slaanesh getting expanded, either with Emperor's Children, Slaanesh Daemons, or both in Kill Team (and in 40k).

And finally

You haven't played the game and you think it's shallow? Y'all complainers are hopeless. Watching battle reports and reading through what I can of the rules, I can assure you there's a lot of strategic intrigue in this game. If your definition of a good game is having so many options that you're buried under a bog of unbalancable rules, then 40k already exists. You can have your vehicles, your terminators, allllll that stuff. Why do you need to bring your negativity into a new game?

The only hopeless persons here are the white knights that constantly praise and defend GW

I don't need to play a game to know whether I'll like it or not, especially when it comes to a skirmish game. I want these games to have depth, customisation and progression, and it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that these are severly lacking right now in KT

It's not necessarly a bad thing, since KT seems to have been designed to be a quick game, but it is not the kind of game that appeal to me as is, and I don't need some 14 yo fan boy on the net to berate me for it

Automatically Appended Next Post:

judgedoug wrote:
I thoroughly enjoy GW's new design ethos of making games that are fun to play, and completely ignoring the "the only way to play is to play to win" crowd.

I wouldn't qualify most of the ruleset GW have released recently (bar Necro) as fun to play. But again YMMV

**H.B.M.C.**

Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed that Peachy has a character that they keep showing that has two melee weapons, even one with a banner, but none of those are actual options for Guard.

I get it, it's all fluffy and what not, but it's just a shame these weren't actual options for the army.

Well, GW don't sell Guardsmen with melee weapons like that, so no rules for them!

**Sabotage!**

Blastaar wrote:
Sabotage! wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
I thoroughly enjoy GW's new design ethos of making games that are fun to play, and completely ignoring the "the only way to play is to play to win" crowd.

I second you on that good sir. Since the new CEO has taken over, and with their new game releases, I've really come back around to GW because of their design philosophy (rule of cool/games with emphasis on telling a cool story rather than WAAC).

Those things are not mutually exclusive. A game can have strong narrative elements, provide plentiful opportunities for decision making, and be fun all at once. Malifaux accomplishes this. And no, enjoying the challenge of competition does not make someone a bad person.

No, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. I'm stating that it's nice to see GW taking a step away from the pay to win edition that was 7th. The whole "We just released a new unit, it's in a separate supplement, and it is horrendously undercosted (points) for what it does - take 3-6 if you want to play competitively." That's how GW listening to WAAC players resulted in "balance." Give a faction with a poorly written book a couple broken formations or units and make the players pay extra cash to access them.

Did I ever say that enjoying competition makes someone a bad person? There is nothing wrong with playing a game competitively. When I play games I always attempt to win, but I won't min-max my list just to win or take ally combos that don't make sense just to exploit the rules somehow. Most players don't play WAAC or narratively to the point that their list is totally unusable, most players attempt to win. If I wanted to play a game where the sole purpose was winning I would play something that is more skill based than rolling dice, like soccer or hockey. If I happen to lose a game, I can still enjoy the experience of playing it. And to be fair, if someone I'm playing can't have fun playing a game that they lose, I won't be playing against them in the future.

**frankelee**

GW is evil, and people should hold them accountable and always demand they do a good job with these beloved properties the current MBAs working there have inherited.

On the other hand competitive wargaming is one of the dumbest ideas ever created by a human being.

And it truly does devolve into whinging when one complains how the latest GW ruleset doesn't provide you the perfect competitive wargame when that shouldn't even be on the shortlist of their top priorities, let alone the top priority. A complaint which goes along with an insanely demanding check list of other personal demands as to how every little aspect of the game is made.

Yet we all want what we want, and complaining is a fundamental human behavior most people engage in daily.

And if you have to complain about something the internet seems like a great place to do it, and more specifically Dakka Dakka is well known for being a salt mine of nothing but complaining, making it a really great place to do it.

So I don't know how to feel about all these arguments.

**Sqorgar**

Sabotage! wrote:
Did I ever say that enjoying competition makes someone a bad person?

I'll say it. If you just download an overpowered list off the internet and curb stomp newbies, you aren't a good person.

The virtue of competition is that it gives you an adaptable opponent, which will constantly create new situations from which interesting challenges will occur. The purpose of competition is to provide a more interesting, less static game. You don't enjoy the competition, but the every changing experience that results from that competition. But to get off on the competitive aspect itself - to thrive under the promise of superiority and threat of inferiority, tying your entire identity to success in a silly little game of toy soldiers - that is not going to lead you to a life of altruism and compassion.

**Cephalobeard**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed that Peachy has a character that they keep showing that has two melee weapons, even one with a banner, but none of those are actual options for Guard.

I get it, it's all fluffy and what not, but it's just a shame these weren't actual options for the army.
Well, GW don't sell Guardsmen with melee weapons like that, so no rules for them!

It's not an invalid points, it's just contrary to the previous spirit I understood regarding kill team.

Kitbashing.

**Crimson**

Cephalobeard wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed that Peachy has a character that they keep showing that has two melee weapons, even one with a banner, but none of those are actual options for Guard.

I get it, it's all fluffy and what not, but it's just a shame these weren't actual options for the army.
Well, GW don't sell Guardsmen with melee weapons like that, so no rules for them!

It's not an invalid points, it's just contrary to the previous spirit I understood regarding kill team.

Kitbashing.

Besides, Catachan kits definitely come with a bunch of melee weapons.

**Grot 6**

Two questions come to mind and have been making the rounds in the groups a couple of weeks now, the first would be in RPG play, and the second would be in developing a permanent board, or established battlefields for the action. With the upcoming Rogue Trader, there has been a sparked interest in the game, and people are starting to step back out again. This in turn has begged the questions of personalization of figures and developing story lines in the regards of the gaming groups.

1. An established enemy, or Random groups.(Use one of the large armies for the protagonist?

2. Established territorials, such as in Necromunda that can do double duty for different games, built up over the course of three or so levels up to 18-20 inches high.

3. Permanent/ or interchangeable terrain that can be moved around on a table, or stationary, to be fought over in different settings?

Got mine on deck, and along with the stuff that comes in the box, I have a number of the buildings that may or may not need a permanent home on a 4X8 table. Really liking what I see in the new iteration, and regardless of the mass of terrain, I can see a multi level fight stemming over different goals that affect different tables, such as an Artillery strike from across the room, a titan showing up or walking across the table, or random bombardments, or indirect fire missions going good or bad...

Really excited on what is coming!

**Sabotage!**

Cephalobeard wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed that Peachy has a character that they keep showing that has two melee weapons, even one with a banner, but none of those are actual options for Guard.

I get it, it's all fluffy and what not, but it's just a shame these weren't actual options for the army.
Well, GW don't sell Guardsmen with melee weapons like that, so no rules for them!

It's not an invalid points, it's just contrary to the previous spirit I understood regarding kill team.

Kitbashing.

While I am very happy GW is giving us a proper 40k skirmish game (and I like the gameplay videos I have seen), the lack of kitbashing options for some factions (particularly Guard) are pretty disappointing. It would have been really cool to see the option for "Warrior Weapons" return, and Carapace and Shotguns should have been available. I also thought it was rather odd Guard didn't get any heavy weapons when other factions did.

**Scott-S6**

Considering heavy weapon teams are and have always been an option for infantry squads it is a weird omission. Are they concerned about the huge base causing an issue with some future rule that's in the works? Or that the two guardsmen being one individual for rules purposes is wierd (I don't find considering a heavy weapon team to be a specialist as being confusing but there are definitely some individuals on here that take the crunch overly literally that might have a problem with it)

**Marleymoo**

As for Peachy's models, I think I remember him saying on Twitch that the banner bearer and bugle player are his comm's officer's. And as for the two melee weapons, there is a rule for them....the rule of cool.

**Scott-S6**

The rumour about the back of the boards fitting together is correct - they do. We'll have to see if this continues with munitorium.

**marke**

frankelee wrote:
GW is evil, and people should hold them accountable and always demand they do a good job with these beloved properties the current MBAs working there have inherited.

On the other hand competitive wargaming is one of the dumbest ideas ever created by a human being.

And it truly does devolve into whinging when one complains how the latest GW ruleset doesn't provide you the perfect competitive wargame when that shouldn't even be on the shortlist of their top priorities, let alone the top priority. A complaint which goes along with an insanely demanding check list of other personal demands as to how every little aspect of the game is made.

Yet we all want what we want, and complaining is a fundamental human behavior most people engage in daily.

And if you have to complain about something the internet seems like a great place to do it, and more specifically Dakka Dakka is well known for being a salt mine of nothing but complaining, making it a really great place to do it.

So I don't know how to feel about all these arguments.

Umm. Yeah, talking about yourself is certainly more acceptable & interesting than complaining

..and there is still the argument GW has "fun" available in many forms already. A platform to measure skill between two players? Nope.

I'm not complaining, simply stating. I'm almost indifferent to how KT turned out to be. However, it could've been nice to see something more enthusiastic and serious, but I'm fine skipping this either way.

**Scott-S6**

And so it begins...

**alphaecho**

Scott-S6 wrote:
The rumour about the back of the boards fitting together is correct - they do. We'll have to see if this continues with munitorium.

The Imperial City side of the Mechanicus board matches up to both sides of the Starter set board, however, as seen in the photos below, it is a direct continuation of one particular side of the Starter board.

The Sector Mechanicus board is on the right.

Note the split jerry can, the manhole cover and large hatch in the two sections in the close up.

GW may actually have a Plan!

**Messiah**

alphaecho wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
The rumour about the back of the boards fitting together is correct - they do. We'll have to see if this continues with munitorium.

The Imperial City side of the Mechanicus board matches up to both sides of the Starter set board, however, as seen in the photos below, it is a direct continuation of one particular side of the Starter board.

The Sector Mechanicus board is on the right.

Note the split jerry can, the manhole cover and large hatch in the two sections in the close up.

GW may actually have a Plan!

Again.. isnt that plan right here? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Sectore-Imperialis-City-Warzone-Collection-2018

**alphaecho**

Messiah wrote:
alphaecho wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:
The rumour about the back of the boards fitting together is correct - they do. We'll have to see if this continues with munitorium.

The Imperial City side of the Mechanicus board matches up to both sides of the Starter set board, however, as seen in the photos below, it is a direct continuation of one particular side of the Starter board.

The Sector Mechanicus board is on the right.

Note the split jerry can, the manhole cover and large hatch in the two sections in the close up.

GW may actually have a Plan!

Again.. isnt that plan right here? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Sectore-Imperialis-City-Warzone-Collection-2018

Those tiles are 2ft by 2ft plastic versions. With the folding card Kill Team boards being slightly smaller, it is a good touch that the reverse of the Killzone boards allow you to join them up to make a larger gaming area.

**Mr Morden**

Sabotage! wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed that Peachy has a character that they keep showing that has two melee weapons, even one with a banner, but none of those are actual options for Guard.

I get it, it's all fluffy and what not, but it's just a shame these weren't actual options for the army.
Well, GW don't sell Guardsmen with melee weapons like that, so no rules for them!

It's not an invalid points, it's just contrary to the previous spirit I understood regarding kill team.

Kitbashing.

While I am very happy GW is giving us a proper 40k skirmish game (and I like the gameplay videos I have seen), the lack of kitbashing options for some factions (particularly Guard) are pretty disappointing. It would have been really cool to see the option for "Warrior Weapons" return, and Carapace and Shotguns should have been available. I also thought it was rather odd Guard didn't get any heavy weapons when other factions did.

I agree completely - although previously we were told that discssing such (missing) elements to the game was not allowed because.............

**angel of death 007**

Looking at how the preorders for the astra militarium and nids sets are cheaper then the SW and orks, I am definately getting the astra militarium set. <REMOVED>

**xttz**

angel of death 007 wrote:
Looking at how the preorders for the astra militarium and nids sets are cheaper then the SW and orks, I am definately getting the astra militarium set. <REMOVED>

I think that's because the terrain they come with is cheaper in comparison. The SW / Ork terrain bought separately is £30 / £25 respectfully. With these new sets you get 2 container sprues instead of the 3 from the £30 set, so it's £20 worth.

**shuul**

Can anyone explain to me why SM kill team can have only Power Swords? my whole army is with lances/hammers/axes, why I cant take them in here? (while DW can take hammers)

**JohnnyHell**

Because of what comes in the standard plastic kits, is why.

**AndrewGPaul**

Zethnar wrote:
Insurgency Walker wrote:
Someone said they wanted to add light vehicles to Necromunda for the ash wastes, Gorkamorka is also going to turn up at some point too as they committed to rerelease of the specialist games.

I don't think they ever said they were going to re-release every single specialist game ever made. I would be seriously surprised to see a re-make of Gorkamorka seeing as it didn't perform too well the first time around. Light vehicles for an ash-wastes setting I can see, after all they've already set up the Orlocks as biker gangs that ride the wastes between hive cities. But I think we're more likely to see Man'o'war and Warmaster before we ever see Gorkamorka (and I seriously doubt we're likely to see either of those ever again either).

Apart from anything else, Gorkamorka was never a "specialist" game (nor was Man O' War). The games that came under that heading (and Fanatic, in whichever order those brands came about) were Necromunda, Warmaster, Battlefleet Gothic, Inquisitor, Epic (40,000 and Armageddon) and Blood Bowl.

**Sqorgar**

Scott-S6 wrote:
The rumour about the back of the boards fitting together is correct - they do. We'll have to see if this continues with munitorium.

We can see the back of the Sector Munitorum board on the NZ site. I'm unsure how it fits up, but it looks like it might tile along the short side this time. Also, and maybe this is just the pictures used on the site, the Munitorum board looks like it has different dimensions to the others (it's less wide)

(Personally, I'd prefer the backsides of the Munitorum and Mechanicus boards to be a continuation of their respective zones, so that you can put two together for a 3/4 payer game in that zone)

**BrookM**

First wave of preorders, the main game bundle and an extra building, should arrive this Tuesday, can't wait! Decided to preorder both the Militarum Tempestus and Ork bundles along with some paints for the ruins and for Ork skin, time to take a serious stab at that as well.

Quite pleased that the Scion and Stealer starters are both €10,- cheaper than the Ork and Marine starters.

**xttz**

Zethnar wrote:
Gorkamorka (and I seriously doubt we're likely to see either of those ever again either).

FWIW Gorkamorka is coming back soon, albeit as as Knight: Renegade style release. That means a cheap bundle deal with with one-off rules and no later support.

**kronk**

I just downloaded the enhanced book. Sisters of Battle were in the preview pdf but not in the rulebook?! Wtf?

**Nightlord1987**

Do we know the exclusive Ork Tactic in the box yet?