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Ok, maybe a silly question but I was poking around through my boxes of stuff and came across an old mess of a tank I was rigging into a looted hellhound some years ago, but of course, that ship has sailed and now it would just be a "looted wagon". I was still kicking around getting some use out of it as such, something like:
Looted Wagon w/ Scorcha, x2 Big Shootas. That'd be like 60pts or 70pts if I use the 'ard case, but I guess having the transport capacity of an open topped jump out and assault vehicle sounded decent. I was thinking of like 10 plain Nobs or a mix between Sluggas/Choppas and Big Choppas or even tank bustas.

so, yea, anyone run something like that?
Thanks!
T-

If you are thinking of transporting Nobz then you want a truck or a BW....Looted wagons are trash for their cost. In any role you place them in the same role can be better served and more effectively priced by looking elsewhere.

Tank Bustas, with the "always shoot at the closest tank" makes them nigh useless. The only way I have found function for them so far is using my old school Baneblade hull Battlewagon to block LoS to the gak I don't want them to shoot at but that is borderline abusive modeling. I can't help it that the new BW, while looks awesome, looks like a damn clown car. I refuse to field them, or for that matter buy them for near $60 a pop. Totally not worth it. :(

Back to point leave the looted wagons at home. If you REALLY want to transport something that can't buy a Trukk or BW as dedicated Transport then buy a BW as Heavy OR steal a different squad's Trukk. Looted Wagons are trash.

If the Looted waggon was a option for a unit (even if it took the boom gun) then it would be usable. But it is unacceptable to ever take up heavy supports slot with it

For a fun army, yeah. Not really worth the points cost (as pointed out) but a hellhound/skorcha looted wagon sounds like it would look cool on the field I wouldn't fill it with Nobs though. Slugga boyz is the way to go with that imo but if you want to make it extra cool, fill that sucker with burna boyz

The big problem with the looted wagon is the breakdown test. It means that your really expensive nobs squad can end up out of position at the wrong time.

Put burna boyz in it Then dump flame on whatever your within a template range from. It can be a deadly combo, and in this case, moving 13" isn't such a problem, as you want the tank to move forward.

Since it's not Fast, it has to move under 6 to shoot, and with a mob of very expensive burnas inside, you don't want a wasted turn, especially not a wasted turn that plonks you uselessly inside melta or close combat range.

I mean, flavour wise it's cool, and sometimes it'll work and that's great, and I bet the model will look great. But as a choice it's not going to be the best, because it's so unpredictable.

Da Boss wrote:Since it's not Fast, it has to move under 6 to shoot, and with a mob of very expensive burnas inside, you don't want a wasted turn, especially not a wasted turn that plonks you uselessly inside melta or close combat range

If your that close, you can jump out and attack them. if you end up not quite close enough, there's always the Waaagh. Burnaboyz can rawk in the assault, as do Tankbustas, in fact tankbustas are better at killing tanks with assaults, that goes for burnaboyz too (they do better in the assault that is...they can't break tanks ) but burnaboyz can also dump fire on that melta squad, 12 flame templates, even against marines, will do some damage. It's almost the same shooting power that marines have at that range (And it's the same AP as well....though the problem is orks are more vulnerable against that kind of weapon than the marines are, so if any of them live, and the burnas can't assault them, the burnas are likely to die in a hail of bolter rounds.)

Kej wrote:"always shoot at the closest tank"

You sir, are incorrect. The rule states "They must always attempt to shoot at and/or assault an enemy vehicle if there is one in line of sight, regardless of range." Not the nearest, simply a vehicle. The rule is almost irrelevant, as you bought them to bust tanks anyway. I use a large squad to great effect in my infantry horde. They are better than Lootas for the role because they are mobile, and have a Boss Pole making morale issues less relevant.

Oh, on subject though, Skorcha Buggies make better looted Hellhounds. I don't think Looted Wagons are so bad they should never be taken, but they are strickly for fun games. I can't think of a way to run them that isn't simply done better by one of the other transports. They can be functional units; Boomguns make them pack quite a bunch, although then the "Don't press that" roll strings a little.

Looted wagons are not quite worth the points, I'd say add some conversions and try and make it a battle wagon. Also that's alot of very killable points to put into a machine that explodes if you look to hard at it.

So the general concensus is that you can, but why bother? haha

Thanks all!
T-

You sir, are incorrect. The rule states "They must always attempt to shoot at and/or assault an enemy vehicle if there is one in line of sight, regardless of range." Not the nearest, simply a vehicle. The rule is almost irrelevant, as you bought them to bust tanks anyway. I use a large squad to great effect in my infantry horde. They are better than Lootas for the role because they are mobile, and have a Boss Pole making morale issues less relevant.

The annoying thing with the glory hog rule, isn't that they have to shoot at vehicles, it's that they can't RUN when nothing is in range, but must instead TRY to shoot at that rhino parked 49" away half concealed behind the rest of the enemy army...

Now, I've used Looted wagons to transport both TBs and Burnaboys. depending on lists, but it's a good halfway solution when you go all out mech, and just can't afford that BW.

//Calle

Look at your opponent's list... go second, or put the looted wagon in reserve so that you may deploy them somewhere this is not a problem...

I've been thinking about the Looted Wagon, and I think it may be useful after all. The Boomgun is the Ork's only S8 blast weapon. This is a huge leg up over the Killkannon, as you are instant-deathing T4 models (Nobs, Plague Marines, HQ choices, etc). If you use a several, along with Lootas you could build effectively an Orky Alpha Strike. This of course, doesn't take away from your back up plan (swamp 'em with boyz).

DarkHound wrote:I've been thinking about the Looted Wagon, and I think it may be useful after all. The Boomgun is the Ork's only S8 blast weapon. This is a huge leg up over the Killkannon, as you are instant-deathing T4 models (Nobs, Plague Marines, HQ choices, etc). If you use a several, along with Lootas you could build effectively an Orky Alpha Strike. This of course, doesn't take away from your back up plan (swamp 'em with boyz).

If you do this then you need at least one unit of boys or grots to attack as brakes. After all "Don't Press Dat" makes you move as far forwards as your allowed and friendly models can't be moved through.

If you must you could take a Big Mek with a KFF or SAG with a line of Grots around the Wagons, but it is only a 17% chance.

DarkHound wrote:If you must you could take a Big Mek with a KFF or SAG with a line of Grots around the Wagons, but it is only a 17% chance.

ah but take 3 and its 42% odds that at least 1 will roll badly each turn. (if your wondering 0.46% chance of all 3 rolling a one)

With the Burna Boyz, 3 of them can be Meks... this means that if you suffer a weapon destroyed or immobilised you could repair it with 3 rolls of a 4+... you could get 4 rolls of a 4+ if you include a Big Mek and make the entire contraption obscured... This leads to a vehicle, while being only as armored as a Rhino, can only be killed by a wreck or a Explosion... as anything else can be fixed...

Da Boss wrote:Since it's not Fast, it has to move under 6 to shoot, and with a mob of very expensive burnas inside, you don't want a wasted turn, especially not a wasted turn that plonks you uselessly inside melta or close combat range.

I mean, flavour wise it's cool, and sometimes it'll work and that's great, and I bet the model will look great. But as a choice it's not going to be the best, because it's so unpredictable.

I'd only like to point out a misconception here:

Passengers in a vehicle, regardless of whether it's fast or not, may not fire out of a fire point (or in the case of an open-topped vehicle it's hull) if the vehicle moves faster than combat speed.

Regular vehicles have: 0-6 combat speed 6-12 cruising speed

Fast vehicle have 0-6 combat speed, 6-12 cruising speed, 12-18 flat out.

The rules for fast vehicles allow the vehicle itself to fire as though it is traveling one "speed band" slower but this benefit is not given to embarked units firing from the vehicle.

QuietOrkmi wrote:With the Burna Boyz, 3 of them can be Meks... this means that if you suffer a weapon destroyed or immobilised you could repair it with 3 rolls of a 4+... you could get 4 rolls of a 4+ if you include a Big Mek and make the entire contraption obscured... This leads to a vehicle, while being only as armored as a Rhino, can only be killed by a wreck or a Explosion... as anything else can be fixed...

Odds to fix a single problem
1 mek 50%, 2 meks 75%, 3 meks 87.5%, 4 meks (3+big mek) 93.75%
note odds of shaking
1 mek 16.7%, 2 meks 30.5%, 3 meks 42.1%, 4 meks (3+big mek) 51.8%
so not all good

Even if the odds were any good, wouldn't you be better off sticking them in a battlewagon, and repairing that? Looted wagons don't look good, except on shelves...

willydstyle wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Since it's not Fast, it has to move under 6 to shoot, and with a mob of very expensive burnas inside, you don't want a wasted turn, especially not a wasted turn that plonks you uselessly inside melta or close combat range.

I mean, flavour wise it's cool, and sometimes it'll work and that's great, and I bet the model will look great. But as a choice it's not going to be the best, because it's so unpredictable.

I'd only like to point out a misconception here:

Passengers in a vehicle, regardless of whether it's fast or not, may not fire out of a fire point (or in the case of an open-topped vehicle it's hull) if the vehicle moves faster than combat speed.

Regular vehicles have: 0-6 combat speed 6-12 cruising speed

Fast vehicle have 0-6 combat speed, 6-12 cruising speed, 12-18 flat out.

The rules for fast vehicles allow the vehicle itself to fire as though it is traveling one "speed band" slower but this benefit is not given to embarked units firing from the vehicle.

Oh, wow, thanks! I've been playing that wrong.

No problem, lots of people play it wrong, which is why I wanted to point it out to you

Regarding the looted wagon: DATS WHAT I WAS FINKING! I thought the Str 8 would be good for denying plague marines their FNP, and gibbing 2 wound models. Kitting out a battle wagon in the same way would be like 80 pts more expensive (arguably worth it), but if you like the slightly longer range and higher Str, Id use it as a looted wagon.
I actually had the same conundrum the other night, as I wanted to start up Orks as I have had a lot of models for a while, and have a Leman russ and a NIB hellhound (for the Skorcha + ard-case + burna boyz). Regardless of effectiveness, I think theyd be fun ( a game thats fun? Blasphemy!)

I have a boom gun, and I think it works rather decently. I make sure to have something in front of it so the DONT PRESS THAT doesnt make it go full speed ahead. Sure I dont roll HIT on the scatter all the time, but when that plate DOES land on something it really hurts whatever is under it. (usually squads of SM. MAn they dont like that thing)
As far as using it like that, its not that expensive, but I agree, any other way, and you can find a better version for cheaper.

Hmmm... but how does it compare with just running Kannons for a similar amount of points....

At 75 points each you could have 3 Kannons with 8 grots and 3 ammo runts...

At 105 points each you can have 1 Boom gun...

anyone want to math hammer it?

QuietOrkmi wrote:Hmmm... but how does it compare with just running Kannons for a similar amount of points....

At 75 points each you could have 3 Kannons with 8 grots and 3 ammo runts...

At 105 points each you can have 1 Boom gun...

anyone want to math hammer it?

Not really possible. Comparing a Large ordnance blast and ether 3 small blasts or 3 BS3 shots is just way to much trouble.

Against infantry with higher saves the Boom gun would do better. Against vehicels AV13+ i would also say it would do better.

The Kannons easily win against IG Nids and orks. Also will give better results against AV10-11 (AV12 is sort of mid ground)

today I ran 3 Zzap Guns with 2 extra Grots (Extra wounds) and 3 Ammo Runts... for 105 points...

Ran it against the LR and did wonderful as I was able to penetrate often enough to stop it from doing anything the entire game... However that large blast template, that insta-kills most infantry, ignores non terminator saves, and is a LARGE BLAST TEMPLATE!!! is quite nice if it weren't for that dumb 1/6 chance of not doing what you want this turn...

Jag_Calle wrote:

You sir, are incorrect. The rule states "They must always attempt to shoot at and/or assault an enemy vehicle if there is one in line of sight, regardless of range." Not the nearest, simply a vehicle. The rule is almost irrelevant, as you bought them to bust tanks anyway. I use a large squad to great effect in my infantry horde. They are better than Lootas for the role because they are mobile, and have a Boss Pole making morale issues less relevant.

[b][color=green]The annoying thing with the glory hog rule, isn't that they have to shoot at vehicles, it's that they can't RUN when nothing is in range, but must instead TRY to shoot at that rhino parked 49" away half concealed behind the rest of the enemy army...

That's why you mount up Tankbustas, so the running/assaulting isn't an issue.