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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What I am saying is the problem lies not in the concept but the execution.
Great concept/poor execution is such an issue for GW that it is sadly their modus operandi by this stage.

   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in au
Stalwart Tribune





 Dysartes wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

Pretty sure one flyer variant is a transport so probably at least two datasheets for it.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 kastelen wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

Pretty sure one flyer variant is a transport so probably at least two datasheets for it.

Good point, I'd forgotten about that.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Flyer is three variants: gunship, transport, bomber.
Cavalry are two variants: Raiders(Ranger based unit) and Sulphurhounds(Vanguard based unit).
The flappyguys are two variants, of which one seems to be flamethrowers.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 puma713 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.


"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





pm713 wrote:
 puma713 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.


"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.



EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Not Online!!! wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 puma713 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.


"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.



EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

You'd definitely need to balance it but that's the issue with GW - they drop and move on rather than balance. For example we had Formations in 7th that had potential to be a fun way of making your army. You give up some flexibility but all my space wolves can outflank and it's great. The problem was they had some that were broken and never tried adding a significant cost to using them but rather than, say adding points to balance them, they just gave up and went with CP and stratagems. Then they made traits, buildable traits and added more and more stratagems and we're not really better off than we were in 7th or 6th.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




pm713 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 puma713 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.


"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.



EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

You'd definitely need to balance it but that's the issue with GW - they drop and move on rather than balance. For example we had Formations in 7th that had potential to be a fun way of making your army. You give up some flexibility but all my space wolves can outflank and it's great. The problem was they had some that were broken and never tried adding a significant cost to using them but rather than, say adding points to balance them, they just gave up and went with CP and stratagems. Then they made traits, buildable traits and added more and more stratagems and we're not really better off than we were in 7th or 6th.

Also, don't forget that Jetbikes were always a troop choice since 4th I believe. So this is the first time in 4 editions that this changed. They didn't need some special HQ to be unlocked, rather GW deliberately made them super powerful.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Just because there's only potentially 3 physical boxes here doesn't mean that's how many datasheets there will be.

That's not how Admech boxes work. With the exception of the Onager Dunecrawler and Kastellan Robots, every single non-HQ box can be built as a minimum 2 datasheets.

Skitarii - Vanguard or Rangers
Ironstriders or Dragoons
Infiltrators or Ruststalkers
Dunerider or Disintegrator
Corpuscarii or Fulgurite priests
Kataphron Breachers or Destroyers

All dual kit boxes, 2 datasheets per box.

So Engine war book release schedule so far has to account for 7 units for Admech plus Imperial knights, chaos knights and daemons. Thats's a lot to cover.

I mean as far as the unit reveals go they probably will be more likely 1 box per reveal, but who knows what else they've got in store!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Octovol wrote:
Just because there's only potentially 3 physical boxes here doesn't mean that's how many datasheets there will be.

That's not how Admech boxes work. With the exception of the Onager Dunecrawler and Kastellan Robots, every single non-HQ box can be built as a minimum 2 datasheets.

Skitarii - Vanguard or Rangers
Ironstriders or Dragoons
Infiltrators or Ruststalkers
Dunerider or Disintegrator
Corpuscarii or Fulgurite priests
Kataphron Breachers or Destroyers

All dual kit boxes, 2 datasheets per box.

So Engine war book release schedule so far has to account for 7 units for Admech plus Imperial knights, chaos knights and daemons. Thats's a lot to cover.

I mean as far as the unit reveals go they probably will be more likely 1 box per reveal, but who knows what else they've got in store!



Have you played other armies? Every army has dual kits for pretty much every single unit. It's not some special Admech thing. GW can create 30 datasheets for a new unit if they wanted (and have with SM HQ) but that doesn't mean there are actually more functional choices. Just because a captain with a gravis armor and a plasma pistol has a different datasheet than a captain with gravis armor and a boltstorm gauntlet doesnt mean its "another choice totally different unit choice" that deserves acclaim :p

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/23 13:24:04


Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Engine War has to account for more than 7 units for AdMech.

We also do not have, in a book format, rules for:
-Skorpius Dunerider
-Skorpius Disintegrator
-Techpriest Manipulus

So Engine War will have to provide rules for:
-Skorpius Dunerider
-Skorpius Disintegrator
-Techpriest Manipulus
-Archaeopter Transport
-Archaeopter Gunship
-Archaeopter Bomber
-Serberys Raiders
-Serberys Sulphurhounds
-Pteraxii Carbines
-Pteraxii Flamers

In case anyone needs a refresher
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

I don't know if they included rules for the Blackstone Fortress characters in the Sisters of Battle book, but I sadly don't expect to see Daedalosus here or in the next AdMech book.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.
Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Dakka Veteran






 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 Kanluwen wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.

Ok fine - but he's still not on his own sprue if I go to the US to get him!
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Was just saying that it's not just Escalation.

Supposedly, there's EU sources for Combat Arena as well. I believe GameStop?
US, Canada and Germany are the places.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/23 13:50:29


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

 Kanluwen wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.


Still not in a 40k codex, so thats not a reasonable solution for a unit that is in almost every admech list.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

He actually has a "datasheet" however. Escalation included a softbook that has all of the heroes.

On the flipside, the Skorpius and Manipulus required you to cut up the instruction manuals.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.
Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...


https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Orks-Shokkjump-Dragsta-2019
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Orks-Kustom-Boosta-Blasta-2019

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.
Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...


No?

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Good to know

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
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Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't know if they included rules for the Blackstone Fortress characters in the Sisters of Battle book, but I sadly don't expect to see Daedalosus here or in the next AdMech book.


Nope neither of them are in the SoB codex :(

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What I am saying is the problem lies not in the concept but the execution.
Great concept/poor execution is such an issue for GW that it is sadly their modus operandi by this stage.
Yeah...

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Dysartes wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.
I agree with you in that it seems a notable release; three multi-option kits is a significant expansion of options, even if the units end up being same-thing-different-weapon. And they are not just character clam packs or basic infantry either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/23 19:11:55


Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).
I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.


You got seven distinct kits alongside your Codex release (can't forget the Workshop, no matter how much it is maligned). AdMech are getting 3 new kits, plus a probable clam-pack from their Kill Team set.

And your original post probably suffers from PAI vs. PAW:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
On "Engine War" - I'd expect it to take longer to release what with all the new model kits that are due to come with it. 3 Flyers, 2 riders, 2 jump pack infantry units if I'm not mistaken? That's a massive release without the book.

That's very easy to read as seven kits, even if it isn't your intent.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
 
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