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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What I am saying is the problem lies not in the concept but the execution.

Great concept/poor execution is such an issue for GW that it is sadly their modus operandi by this stage.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

Pretty sure one flyer variant is a transport so probably at least two datasheets for it.

 kastelen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

Pretty sure one flyer variant is a transport so probably at least two datasheets for it.

Good point, I'd forgotten about that.

Flyer is three variants: gunship, transport, bomber.
Cavalry are two variants: Raiders(Ranger based unit) and Sulphurhounds(Vanguard based unit).
The flappyguys are two variants, of which one seems to be flamethrowers.

 puma713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.

"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.

pm713 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.

"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.

EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

Not Online!!! wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.

"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.

EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

You'd definitely need to balance it but that's the issue with GW - they drop and move on rather than balance. For example we had Formations in 7th that had potential to be a fun way of making your army. You give up some flexibility but all my space wolves can outflank and it's great. The problem was they had some that were broken and never tried adding a significant cost to using them but rather than, say adding points to balance them, they just gave up and went with CP and stratagems. Then they made traits, buildable traits and added more and more stratagems and we're not really better off than we were in 7th or 6th.

pm713 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
They could have included an element of what they intended by just having the HQs 'unlock' unit options; so a Battalion with an Archon, a Haemonculus, and a Succubus could have any units from Kabal, Coven or Cult.

That's a lot more elegant.

"Unlocking" was all the rage in 5th Edition and I think they have tried to get away from it ever since, for some reason. I thought it was great and an easy way to make a powerful but still thematic army.

I really liked having that. It was nice I could take a Spiritseer and make a wraith army rather than now where it's a wraith army with some weird add ons or I feel hamstrung.

EHHHH, The issue is and was allready mentioned, with it beeing sometimes tied to special charachters only.
Also there were massive balance issues associated with it, considering jetbikes are still a mean word arround here for some.
There was also for a long time never an incentive to NOT pick a nurgle chaos lord because PM as troops > then literally all other things.


Otoh, when the system was done with actual care it allwed for some seriously awesome list and customization in builds.

You'd definitely need to balance it but that's the issue with GW - they drop and move on rather than balance. For example we had Formations in 7th that had potential to be a fun way of making your army. You give up some flexibility but all my space wolves can outflank and it's great. The problem was they had some that were broken and never tried adding a significant cost to using them but rather than, say adding points to balance them, they just gave up and went with CP and stratagems. Then they made traits, buildable traits and added more and more stratagems and we're not really better off than we were in 7th or 6th.

Also, don't forget that Jetbikes were always a troop choice since 4th I believe. So this is the first time in 4 editions that this changed. They didn't need some special HQ to be unlocked, rather GW deliberately made them super powerful.

Just because there's only potentially 3 physical boxes here doesn't mean that's how many datasheets there will be.

That's not how Admech boxes work. With the exception of the Onager Dunecrawler and Kastellan Robots, every single non-HQ box can be built as a minimum 2 datasheets.

Skitarii - Vanguard or Rangers
Ironstriders or Dragoons
Infiltrators or Ruststalkers
Dunerider or Disintegrator
Corpuscarii or Fulgurite priests
Kataphron Breachers or Destroyers

All dual kit boxes, 2 datasheets per box.

So Engine war book release schedule so far has to account for 7 units for Admech plus Imperial knights, chaos knights and daemons. Thats's a lot to cover.

I mean as far as the unit reveals go they probably will be more likely 1 box per reveal, but who knows what else they've got in store!

Octovol wrote:
Just because there's only potentially 3 physical boxes here doesn't mean that's how many datasheets there will be.

That's not how Admech boxes work. With the exception of the Onager Dunecrawler and Kastellan Robots, every single non-HQ box can be built as a minimum 2 datasheets.

Skitarii - Vanguard or Rangers
Ironstriders or Dragoons
Infiltrators or Ruststalkers
Dunerider or Disintegrator
Corpuscarii or Fulgurite priests
Kataphron Breachers or Destroyers

All dual kit boxes, 2 datasheets per box.

So Engine war book release schedule so far has to account for 7 units for Admech plus Imperial knights, chaos knights and daemons. Thats's a lot to cover.

I mean as far as the unit reveals go they probably will be more likely 1 box per reveal, but who knows what else they've got in store!

Have you played other armies? Every army has dual kits for pretty much every single unit. It's not some special Admech thing. GW can create 30 datasheets for a new unit if they wanted (and have with SM HQ) but that doesn't mean there are actually more functional choices. Just because a captain with a gravis armor and a plasma pistol has a different datasheet than a captain with gravis armor and a boltstorm gauntlet doesnt mean its "another choice totally different unit choice" that deserves acclaim :p

Engine War has to account for more than 7 units for AdMech.

We also do not have, in a book format, rules for:
-Skorpius Dunerider
-Skorpius Disintegrator
-Techpriest Manipulus

So Engine War will have to provide rules for:
-Skorpius Dunerider
-Skorpius Disintegrator
-Techpriest Manipulus
-Archaeopter Transport
-Archaeopter Gunship
-Archaeopter Bomber
-Serberys Raiders
-Serberys Sulphurhounds
-Pteraxii Carbines
-Pteraxii Flamers

In case anyone needs a refresher

Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

I don't know if they included rules for the Blackstone Fortress characters in the Sisters of Battle book, but I sadly don't expect to see Daedalosus here or in the next AdMech book.

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.

Ok fine - but he's still not on his own sprue if I go to the US to get him!

Was just saying that it's not just Escalation.

Supposedly, there's EU sources for Combat Arena as well. I believe GameStop?
US, Canada and Germany are the places.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Daedalosus almost certainly isn't getting rules outside of Escalation, since he's not on his own sprue.

Escalation or Combat Arena, there's two different ways to get the 'heroes'.

Still not in a 40k codex, so thats not a reasonable solution for a unit that is in almost every admech list.

He actually has a "datasheet" however. Escalation included a softbook that has all of the heroes.

On the flipside, the Skorpius and Manipulus required you to cut up the instruction manuals.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Orks-Shokkjump-Dragsta-2019
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Orks-Kustom-Boosta-Blasta-2019

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Daedalosus as well, since having to buy some random board game isn't a reasonable solution.

Aren't the new Ork buggies still board game exclusive? I know the rules themselves are in the codex, but...

No?

Good to know

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't know if they included rules for the Blackstone Fortress characters in the Sisters of Battle book, but I sadly don't expect to see Daedalosus here or in the next AdMech book.

Nope neither of them are in the SoB codex :(

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What I am saying is the problem lies not in the concept but the execution.

Great concept/poor execution is such an issue for GW that it is sadly their modus operandi by this stage.

Yeah...

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.

I agree with you in that it seems a notable release; three multi-option kits is a significant expansion of options, even if the units end up being same-thing-different-weapon. And they are not just character clam packs or basic infantry either.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's 1 Flyer, 1 Rider and 1 Jump unit. They're all dual kits (or triple kits, in the case of the flyer).

I thought the kits made different units. Are they just weapon options? Either way - 2 dual kits and 1 triple kit is a decent release in my book, the largest of any PA to date.

I think HBMC was just making it clear that there are only three kits, rather than the seven your phrasing had implied.

I think the jump infantry and "cavalry" are two distinct units - the flyer is probably three dataslates, but I could also have seen it as possibly being one with weapon options.

"Only" 3 kits? 3 kits with multiple options each is huge. Us Orks got 6 new buggy units for "Orktober" last year and that was considered a pretty major release. Ironically Ork players would've much preferred multi-build kits too.

Either way it's somewhat regardless, my claim was never that there were seven kits and that there are seven unit releases, which AFAIK there are.

You got seven distinct kits alongside your Codex release (can't forget the Workshop, no matter how much it is maligned). AdMech are getting 3 new kits, plus a probable clam-pack from their Kill Team set.

And your original post probably suffers from PAI vs. PAW:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
On "Engine War" - I'd expect it to take longer to release what with all the new model kits that are due to come with it. 3 Flyers, 2 riders, 2 jump pack infantry units if I'm not mistaken? That's a massive release without the book.

That's very easy to read as seven kits, even if it isn't your intent.