Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They tend to take things into extremes and blow it out of proportion but they do raise some good points if you manage to get a non raging topic.

Anon is 4Chan.
Not all 4Chan is Anon.

I post at /tg/ occasionally, and have never looked in the other sub-forums. I don't care what they are, and they are so wide and varied that it'd a bit like combining a 40K website with a cooking website with a car website with a local neighbourhood watch update website. In other words, each section has so little relation to the next that attempting to heap them all into one single classification is impossible.

Anonymous is the public face, the ones that get stuff done (for good or for ill). Most of 4Chan is happy to just be left alone by everyone else.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Anon is 4Chan.
Not all 4Chan is Anon.

I post at /tg/ occasionally, and have never looked in the other sub-forums. I don't care what they are, and they are so wide and varied that it'd a bit like combining a 40K website with a cooking website with a car website with a local neighbourhood watch update website. In other words, each section has so little relation to the next that attempting to heap them all into one single classification is impossible.

Anonymous is the public face, the ones that get stuff done (for good or for ill). Most of 4Chan is happy to just be left alone by everyone else.

Like a cave of monsters where most of them are all content being left to their own devices but there are a few that go and raid the villages and thus all of them get lumped together in one bad grouping!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Anon is 4Chan.
Not all 4Chan is Anon.

I post at /tg/ occasionally, and have never looked in the other sub-forums. I don't care what they are, and they are so wide and varied that it'd a bit like combining a 40K website with a cooking website with a car website with a local neighbourhood watch update website. In other words, each section has so little relation to the next that attempting to heap them all into one single classification is impossible.

Anonymous is the public face, the ones that get stuff done (for good or for ill). Most of 4Chan is happy to just be left alone by everyone else.

Good to know, thanks. ^^

Well it would be nice if this Grey Knights fanboi could actually hear a reasoned argument from someone whose read the book and understands it. Not had one yet, but keep trying.

Kurgash wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:"Because it's from 4Chan" does not constitute a good enough reason to ignore what's written there.

Sure it does.

And Kurgash:
I play a Dark Angels Successor Chapter and a WIP Cadian Guard force.

I have no particular interest in Ward's books, outside of the fact that at some point I'd like to do a fluffy Raven Guard force(which means of course that Codex: Space Marines is necessary for it since it's the most flexible thing to work from), or any interest in Ward beyond the fact that he's a rules writer who seemingly understands the basics of 'balance' but needs to grasp 'fluff sensibility'.

I do think he's getting far too much flak, however, especially compared to the examples of Thorpe, Hoare, Cavatore, and Haines--who produced just as bad of fluff and rules as Ward is supposed to have produced, yet were seemingly given a pass.

Actually was referring to that Grey Knight dude who plugs his ears and shouts when someone offers a decent rebuttal to his obvious fanboyish statements. Post time must have lagged prior.

Outside of "Mat Ward is crap and so are all his codices and he should die a horrible death", only maybe one or two people have told us why they dislike him and his work.
I retract my fanboi remark, I actually have posted the parts I dislike in the codices, so I'm not blind to their problems.

iproxtaco wrote:Outside of "Mat Ward is crap and so are all his codices and he should die a horrible death", only maybe one or two people have told us why they dislike him and his work.

Actually plenty have, you're just ignoring them.

Try again.

Not so much ignored as countered because they have it wrong, so very, very wrong.

For example, people exaggerating the bloodtide story, thinking that "mutilated" and "bathed" are actually in the passage, which they are not, nothing that even hints as such. That's wrong, hence why I argue with people about it and ignore the opinions of people who clearly have not read the source they are talking about.

iproxtaco wrote:Outside of "Mat Ward is crap and so are all his codices and he should die a horrible death", only maybe one or two people have told us why they dislike him and his work.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually plenty have, you're just ignoring them.

iproxtaco wrote:Not so much ignored as countered because they have it wrong, so very, very wrong.

This is why no one's responding to you guys anymore. You've created a scenario in your mind where no one is responding with what their legitimate concerns, but if they did, they'd be wrong. You win, I guess, Mat Ward is awesome.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:There is nothing, at all, saying they "violated the bodies" and put "bits of their flesh and blood" all over themselves.

The only thing it says is "They turned their blades upon the surviving Sisters and mixed their blood with sacred oils to create a talisman to anoint their wargear and blades".

Case in point. Here we have an argument that there is nothing at all saying they killed them so they could put their blood all over themselves. What they actually did was kill them so they could mix their blood with something else, and rub it all over themselves. Why can't you guys understand how clearly different this is?

It says nothing about them "rubbing it all over themselves".

Anointing is usually done to a specific part of the body or in a small amount.

We also don't actually know that they killed the Sisters.

The entry is maddeningly vague and any conclusion can be drawn.

Some people respond with their legitimate concerns, I respond to explain why this happens, and what parts are wrong. Despite this happening about 100 times over the past few months, people do not listen.

Mat Ward is certainly no Shakespeare, many of his stories are as Kanluwen said, maddeningly vague, Bloodtide being the prime example, but all his codices have been subjected to an amazing level of hyperbole and inflation. There are things in the codex that even I have problems with, Daemonhosts in a Grey Knight army? That's just stupid.
The fact of the matter is that hating Mat Ward is popular, it's a internet fad and is frankly quite tiring and old.

iproxtaco wrote:Well it would be nice if this Grey Knights fanboi could actually hear a reasoned argument from someone whose read the book and understands it. Not had one yet, but keep trying.

One single description: A Vindicare costs 145 pts, his turbo penetrator shot will hit ~92% of the time, he rolls an average armour penetration roll of 17 (statistically he penetrates an armour 14 target ~ >75% of hits) then rolls on the damage table. this means that he has a ~70% chance of penetrating any armour 14 tank on a single shot. Against an armour 12 target this becomes ~85% of penetration. All that at AP1. This 145pt bastard can reliably one shot any vehicle barring a wave serpent or monolith.

Or alternatively he can pluck a ~50 pt Exarch, ~45pt Sergeant, ~100pt Ethereal or any other T3 Invulnerable-Save-less character out of the squad on 46% of his shots.

Against an inv. save toting target he can knock the save of them 92% of shots, then fire the turbo penetrator at them next turn.

Simply put, this 145pt elite choice can reliably destroy character saving wargear, knock out weak characters and sergeants, or 1 SHOT LAND RAIDERS, FIRE PRISMS, HAMMERHEADS, RAVAGERS, LEMAN RUSSES, IRONCLADS I think you get the picture. That little black bastard can make his points back in a lucky turn, or two rather average ones. Good luck getting him back for it though, Vindicares have stealth, 4+ Inv. and FNP.

Then there's the Callidus, instantly deals D6 S4 AP2 hits. That equates to ~2.33 dead eldar equivalents (~81 pts of Dark Reapers, which is exactly where she'll appear). She then shoots a S8 AP1 template Pistol at whoever's left. If you shoot back, she has a 4+ inv., FNP and stealth. Assault isn't a real option either, as she has 5 S4 Power weapon instant death attacks at I7.
What cost could this unit (capable of totally slaughtering 1 elite unit before aiming for more) be? 145 pts. if she starts on a Dark Reapers unit (which will be prime target if you play eldar like me) she can reliably kill all 5 for a total of 237 pts with no fear of being killed before she hits. NO CHANCE OF KILLING HER BEFORE SHE GETS YOUR HEAVY SUPPORT OR ELITE UNIT OF JOY.

Hmmm. I wonder why everyone hates Matt Ward indeed...

Kanluwen wrote:It says nothing about them "rubbing it all over themselves".

Anointing is usually done to a specific part of the body or in a small amount.

We also don't actually know that they killed the Sisters.

The entry is maddeningly vague and any conclusion can be drawn.

Yes, the anointing could have been as simple as sprinkling a few drops on their bare heads while chanting gibberish.

We can be pretty damn sure they killed them though. First, "turn their blades on" is a pretty clear euphemism for "taking care of them", plus it wouldn't make sense for them to not kill them right then when they would have to kill them afterwards. The Sisters were doomed the moment Chaos broke loose on that planet.

Matt Ward does suck but I hope he does my next codex so I can have horney necrons with jetbike tomb spyders that crap out cluster bombs of s10 ap1 goodness, and everything can be named mcroboty or ctany.

Oh and he should be run over by one of those slow moving asphalt compactors feet first.

withershadow wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

5th

WHFB Daemons.

That wasn't so much a ruined book as a ruined game edition, haha!

True dat!

What exactly was so bad about fantasy Daemons anyway? I played Ogre Kingdoms a while ago, before the Army Book for Daemons of Chaos came out.

iproxtaco wrote:What exactly was so bad about fantasy Daemons anyway? I played Ogre Kingdoms a while ago, before the Army Book for Daemons of Chaos came out.

They are so game-breakingly good that WHFB is officially broken. Only a new edition could fix it. Maybe.

There has been one. 8th edition was released a while after Daemons of Chaos. I have heard that this fixed it mostly, but I wondered what was specifically wrong with it. I'm not debating whether it did or didn't.

Dear God-Emperor. 10 pages?! How did this topic get 10 pages?!

infinite_array wrote:Dear God-Emperor. 10 pages?! How did this topic get 10 pages?!

Defensive fan-boi, lots of mini-hijacks and fantasy should just be called lizardman vampire power scroll showdown. There is really no other valid builds.

Offensive Trolls and morons, people with common misconceptions about various parts, off-topic arguments, partly fuelled by myself having to argue with people over small things and earning myself an unfavourable label.

I would like to think i have explained my reason for disliking Matt Ward's fluff.
Though i can't remember taking the time out to do so...

His over saturation of Ultramarine favoritism in the 5th ed book, retconning several previously established pieces of fluff to better suit his needs and how he sees fit, lack of creativity when it comes to naming weapons and wargear, Kelly is guilty of that too btw, overall one upping the last codices he made with even more over the top options, units and several rules that just leave you scratching your head at first glance and require to be broken down bit by bit and thoroughly explained to people who have a different view on it *see Descent of angels arguments when BA came on the scene* and most of all uncharacteristic team ups by said army of book and a random faction to take down another faction.

Ultramarines and Tau fighting, Necrons wake up, both team up and defeat the Necrons, Ultramarines let the Tau escape before destroying the world.

Blood Angels and Necrons fighting, Tyranids come. Both team up to defeat the Tyranids. Blood Angels leave the Necrons alone and go their separate ways as do the Necrons.

Really it's his lack of continuity that bugs me the most. Does he want the Space Marines to be ultimate badass like their days of old or tolerant of all races in their new incarnation.

iproxtaco wrote:Offensive Trolls and morons, people with common misconceptions about various parts,

=iproxtaco

This thread realy needs locking...
It needed locking relatively early on actually...
Lets try to stay civil shall we?

purplefood wrote:This thread realy needs locking...
It needed locking relatively early on actually...
Lets try to stay civil shall we?

...or I can drop a Tau Manta Missile Destroyer on the board and blow up your Crassus Armoured Assault Transport.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:This thread realy needs locking...
It needed locking relatively early on actually...
Lets try to stay civil shall we?

...or I can drop a Tau Manta Missile Destroyer on the board and blow up your Crassus Armoured Assault Transport.

You can try but the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT will simply deploy Boromir.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:This thread realy needs locking...
It needed locking relatively early on actually...
Lets try to stay civil shall we?

...or I can drop a Tau Manta Missile Destroyer on the board and blow up your Crassus Armoured Assault Transport.

You can try but the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT will simply deploy Boromir.

Then he'll face 16 long-barrelled burst cannons, 6 ion cannons, two heavy railguns, 2 missile pods and an array of (6?) seeker missiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:This thread realy needs locking...
It needed locking relatively early on actually...
Lets try to stay civil shall we?

...or I can drop a Tau Manta Missile Destroyer on the board and blow up your Crassus Armoured Assault Transport.

You can try but the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT will simply deploy Boromir.

Then he'll face 16 long-barrelled burst cannons, 6 ion cannons, two heavy railguns, 2 missile pods and an array of (6?) seeker missiles.

Plus the up-to 188 FW it can carry.

Or the up-to 50 something XV8s it can carry.

Or the up-to 6 tanks it can carry, in addition to 48 FW.

Plus drones, SS, and whatever else you can dream up.

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Offensive Trolls and morons, people with common misconceptions about various parts,

=iproxtaco

Missed the part where I said I was partly responsible and called myself a fanboi did yah? Thanks for calling me a moron, not that I've ever insulted you ever, and if I'm in a minority, how are my apparent misconceptions "common"?