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iproxtaco wrote:

Pouncey wrote:
From Lexicanum's Grey Knight's page:

To battle such enemies as Daemons, creatures that are not of this realm but formed of sorcery and madness, a Grey Knight must embrace the power of the Warp to battle a Daemon with its own weapons. Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as the Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos.

Emphasis mine.

Which means that the entire story where the Grey Knights killed Sisters of Battle to obtain their blood to use in a mixture so they wouldn't become corrupted is crap, since they're immune to corruption by their own psychic defences - which do indeed have effects on the material realm, as evidenced by psychic powers that damage and kill things outside the spiritual realm.

They're immune to corruption of the mind and soul, not corruption of their physical bodies which they had to protect.
Using the blood of the Sisters stopped the Blootide from corrupting their bodies and allowed them to defeat the Bloodthirster at it's source.

The "mind and soul" part is not stated in the source you recommended, but the more general and blunt, "immune to corruption," with no qualifiers is.

But let's take it as read that that is the case.

It still doesn't make sense that killing the faithful for their blood would help at all, given that they're killing the faithful for their blood. It seems more like the Grey Knights gave in to corruption than anything else. Self-evident, really.

Pouncey wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Pouncey wrote:
From Lexicanum's Grey Knight's page:

To battle such enemies as Daemons, creatures that are not of this realm but formed of sorcery and madness, a Grey Knight must embrace the power of the Warp to battle a Daemon with its own weapons. Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as the Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos.

Emphasis mine.

Which means that the entire story where the Grey Knights killed Sisters of Battle to obtain their blood to use in a mixture so they wouldn't become corrupted is crap, since they're immune to corruption by their own psychic defences - which do indeed have effects on the material realm, as evidenced by psychic powers that damage and kill things outside the spiritual realm.

They're immune to corruption of the mind and soul, not corruption of their physical bodies which they had to protect.
Using the blood of the Sisters stopped the Blootide from corrupting their bodies and allowed them to defeat the Bloodthirster at it's source.

The "mind and soul" part is not stated in the source you recommended, but the more general and blunt, "immune to corruption," with no qualifiers is.

But let's take it as read that that is the case.

And what exactly do you think "corruption" is?

Hint: it's not a "physical" thing. Corruption is a term used to describe an idea relating to behavior, not physical traits.

It still doesn't make sense that killing the faithful for their blood would help at all, given that they're killing the faithful for their blood. It seems more like the Grey Knights gave in to corruption than anything else. Self-evident, really.

Yeah, because a sect of the Sororitas engineering asteroids and Ork Waaghs! to hit Imperial population centers that they deem 'corrupt' when they're harboring Genestealer hybrids in their midst is just downright pure right?

Sororitas have been corrupted and used by outside forces before.
That's not what remotely happened here with the Grey Knights.

The whole story is meant to resemble some of the more 'archaic' rituals that you see crop up in some texts about how to deal with monsters and the unholy.

'Blood of a pure soul' is not unheard of in that regard. Even in Arthurian myths, these kinds of things being used as ritualistic talismans weren't uncommon for the paragons of virtue that was the romantic ideal of a knight doing battle with the force of evil.

Or do you think tying a lock of hair from a lady to a sword was done for fashion sense?

Kanluwen wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Pouncey wrote:
From Lexicanum's Grey Knight's page:

To battle such enemies as Daemons, creatures that are not of this realm but formed of sorcery and madness, a Grey Knight must embrace the power of the Warp to battle a Daemon with its own weapons. Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as the Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos.

Emphasis mine.

Which means that the entire story where the Grey Knights killed Sisters of Battle to obtain their blood to use in a mixture so they wouldn't become corrupted is crap, since they're immune to corruption by their own psychic defences - which do indeed have effects on the material realm, as evidenced by psychic powers that damage and kill things outside the spiritual realm.

They're immune to corruption of the mind and soul, not corruption of their physical bodies which they had to protect.
Using the blood of the Sisters stopped the Blootide from corrupting their bodies and allowed them to defeat the Bloodthirster at it's source.

The "mind and soul" part is not stated in the source you recommended, but the more general and blunt, "immune to corruption," with no qualifiers is.

But let's take it as read that that is the case.

And what exactly do you think "corruption" is?

Hint: it's not a "physical" thing. Corruption is a term used to describe an idea relating to behavior, not physical traits.

It still doesn't make sense that killing the faithful for their blood would help at all, given that they're killing the faithful for their blood. It seems more like the Grey Knights gave in to corruption than anything else. Self-evident, really.

Yeah, because a sect of the Sororitas engineering asteroids and Ork Waaghs! to hit Imperial population centers that they deem 'corrupt' when they're harboring Genestealer hybrids in their midst is just downright pure right?

Sororitas have been corrupted and used by outside forces before.
That's not what remotely happened here with the Grey Knights.

The whole story is meant to resemble some of the more 'archaic' rituals that you see crop up in some texts about how to deal with monsters and the unholy.

'Blood of a pure soul' is not unheard of in that regard. Even in Arthurian myths, these kinds of things being used as ritualistic talismans weren't uncommon for the paragons of virtue that was the romantic ideal of a knight doing battle with the force of evil.

Or do you think tying a lock of hair from a lady to a sword was done for fashion sense?

Kay, thanks for the correction. I'ma shut up now before I stick my foot in my mouth more.

What future codexes will Matt Ward do?
I already know about Black Templar one...

I think that kind of came out meaner than I intended it to.

The problem is simply that the story that we have?

It was basically a 'summary' of the events. Trying to damn or protect the Grey Knights from it is hard without having to point to context.

Talismans aren't unheard of in the whole idea of fighting evil.

Stomping on an all female army so you can violate the bodies and chunk bits of their flesh and blood on yourself does NOT sound paladin-ish AT ALL. If it read "The Sisters of Battle each cut their hand on a blade and anointed the Grey Knights to protect them in battle." I could see something like that. I don't exactly see how they weren't yanked up for a trial over their behavior.

SilverStar wrote:Stomping on an all female army so you can violate the bodies and chunk bits of their flesh and blood on yourself does NOT sound paladin-ish AT ALL. If it read "The Sisters of Battle each cut their hand on a blade and anointed the Grey Knights to protect them in battle." I could see something like that. I don't exactly see how they weren't yanked up for a trial over their behavior.

Once again:
There is nothing, at all, saying they "violated the bodies" and put "bits of their flesh and blood" all over themselves.

The only thing it says is "They turned their blades upon the surviving Sisters and mixed their blood with sacred oils to create a talisman to anoint their wargear and blades".

And again:
Grey Knights are not Paladins. They could not be further from the stereotypical idea of a Paladin if they tried.

I like that they had a concentration on the Grey Knights, as I really like them, but they should have had more about them being part of the Inquisition, that fact is not made as clear as it should have been.

Basically, there should have been an Inquisition Codex, which included the level of detail about the Grey Knights, had more of an emphasis on the organisation that is the Inquisition, included all the Ordos and their militant wings, which in turn includes the Deathwatch and whatever the militant wing of the Ordo Hereticus is if they have one.
Then they should have an Ecclesiarchy Codex which included everything to do with it, and a much more fleshed out emphasis on the Sisters of Battle.

On corruption. As far as I can tell, the Grey Knights are immune to the forceful corruption of the mind and soul, but not the body. They are also not immune to being indirectly TEMPTED by Chaos, by which I mean, they can independently choose to join Chaos without being forced, it explains Crowe and his Daemon Sword,

Brother Coa wrote:What future codexes will Matt Ward do?
I already know about Black Templar one...

.......................................................... nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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OOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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OooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooo

No Not my black templars. Now its personnel! IF he gets in close to black templars and them over with a codex astrates and says they only contain 1,000 black templar marines. I will buy a ticket to England and punch him in the face and make him wear a baby which is stapled through him.
If he says there are roughly an entire legion of them and make them a ultramarine gag. I'm fine with that. As the Black templar are awesome, and don't give a rats ass about the codex.
Though I can say that my chapter lore is actually better in writting than Matt Wards Dragio and the Dreadknight lore.

Since when has Mat Ward been doing Black Templars? I heard that he was possibly doing Necrons, they have nearly no fluff, anything would be an improvement. It's hinted that Phil Kelly is doing Sisters of Battle, Crudance might be doing Tau.
None of this is confirmed though, just speculation.

iproxtaco wrote:Since when has Mat Ward been doing Black Templars? I heard he was doing Necrons, they have nearly no fluff, anything would be an improvement. It's hinted that Phil Kelly is doing Sisters of Battle, Crudance might be doing Tau.

I want phil kelly for the Black Templars and Mat Ward to write info boxes.

Well there are some speculations that Mat Ward will do either Black Templars or Tau or Necrons.
Nothing is confirmed dough, just wild speculations and all.
But if he is really doing BT, I can imagine that he will do 2 things:

-Make up some fluff where BT lose great number of marines in some battles by the hand of who knows who and remain with only 1000 marines.

or:

- He will make them less angry and more "Ultramarine want to bee" chapter.

Or he will do something entirely different ( increase their numbers, make them more angry, add some strange rituals )...

In any way, Emperor save the Black Templars...

Brother Coa wrote:Well there are some speculations that Mat Ward will do either Black Templars or Tau or Necrons.
Nothing is confirmed dough, just wild speculations and all.
But if he is really doing BT, I can imagine that he will do 2 things:

-Make up some fluff where BT lose great number of marines in some battles by the hand of who knows who and remain with only 1000 marines.

or:

- He will make them less angry and more "Ultramarine want to bee" chapter.

Or he will do something entirely different ( increase their numbers, make them more angry, add some strange rituals )...

In any way, Emperor save the Black Templars...

Agreed. We must assassinate matt ward by throwing ultramarines at him!

I don't want him to do Black Templars, I wouldn't risk him turning them into another Codex Chapter, which would be a travesty a thousand times worse than any problem people have with the Grey Knights codex.

iproxtaco wrote:I don't want him to do Black Templars, I wouldn't risk him turning them into another Codex Chapter, which would be a travesty a thousand times worse than any problem people have with the Grey Knights codex.

That would be hersey enough to make almost every single space marine player burn down the LGS in America and Europe. If GW does do that, they will have looting and the worst types of gamers will come and a new group will arise from the angry gamers. The Wagh Dakkivist group.... which specialize in photoshopping and buying nongw armies to play at tournaments and breaking rules and hacking GW's website for lulz

Asherian Command wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I don't want him to do Black Templars, I wouldn't risk him turning them into another Codex Chapter, which would be a travesty a thousand times worse than any problem people have with the Grey Knights codex.

That would be hersey enough to make almost every single space marine player burn down the LGS in America and Europe. If GW does do that, they will have looting and the worst types of gamers will come and a new group will arise from the angry gamers. The Wagh Dakkivist group.... which specialize in photoshopping and buying nongw armies to play at tournaments and breaking rules and hacking GW's website for lulz

I don't think BT are that loved...

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I don't want him to do Black Templars, I wouldn't risk him turning them into another Codex Chapter, which would be a travesty a thousand times worse than any problem people have with the Grey Knights codex.

That would be hersey enough to make almost every single space marine player burn down the LGS in America and Europe. If GW does do that, they will have looting and the worst types of gamers will come and a new group will arise from the angry gamers. The Wagh Dakkivist group.... which specialize in photoshopping and buying nongw armies to play at tournaments and breaking rules and hacking GW's website for lulz

I don't think BT are that loved...

Well I would burn down my LGS if that would happen. not saying I would just saying metaphorically I would burn down GW's image in my mind.

And it would be the fourth codex ruined by Matt Ward.

iproxtaco wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Kay, that makes an astounding amount of sense and everything, but I really have no rebuttal. ^^

There's also this, which once you get past the bad language you can see what it's about.

Okay, so, remember earlier, when I said I was ignorant of his debasement of 40k fluff? Now I'm not. Thanks. ^^

I wonder if anyone's burned an effigy of him yet...

You still are. Thinking you now know what you're talking about because you read a 4chan page betrays your ignorance.

So does Matt Ward let you sodomize him or are you just in love?

PS don't care what happens to BT.

Asherian Command wrote:The ultramarines were so awesome they did not have to get their minds wiped. The Grey Knights then followed the codex astrates because they are gakking gits.

Hmm, must have missed that part in my read-through (in my defense, the reading was accompanied by frantic consumption of copious amounts of whiskey). Man, this guy has the biggest rager for the Ultramarines of all time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:What future codexes will Matt Ward do?
I already know about Black Templar one...

Codex: Necron Marines is his next opus.

SilverStar wrote:Stomping on an all female army so you can violate the bodies and chunk bits of their flesh and blood on yourself does NOT sound paladin-ish AT ALL. If it read "The Sisters of Battle each cut their hand on a blade and anointed the Grey Knights to protect them in battle." I could see something like that. I don't exactly see how they weren't yanked up for a trial over their behavior.

Can you troll any harder? I don't think it's possible. And I know you're trolling, because no one except a troll would make such blatantly idiotic statements. There was no "stomping", no "violating", no "chunk bits of flesh and blood", and the forces of the Inquisition can't exactly be "yanked up for a trial."

Nice try though.

tgf wrote:

So does Matt Ward let you sodomize him or are you just in love?

PS don't care what happens to BT.

Come back when you've done some growing up and can formulate an actual argument instead of poor attempts at trolling.

withershadow wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:The ultramarines were so awesome they did not have to get their minds wiped. The Grey Knights then followed the codex astrates because they are gakking gits.

Hmm, must have missed that part in my read-through (in my defense, the reading was accompanied by frantic consumption of copious amounts of whiskey). Man, this guy has the biggest rager for the Ultramarines of all time.

IIRC, there is no mention of the Ultramarines at all in the book. Cannot confirm this, though.

KingDeath wrote:

tgf wrote:I have this on very good authority, that the issue with Matt Ward is he has advanced Syphilis which actually causes brain deterioration. GW gave him a job out of pity and don't have the heart to tell him he sucks. They are simply waiting for him to die then they will correct his works. Matt Ward should not be hated he should be pitied.

Hrm, then what about Gav Thorpe and Alessio Cavatore or Jervis Johnson and Andy Hoare? Are they positively diagnosed with brain rot for writing two of the blandest books which have ever graced the world of warhammer 40k? Or perhaps Phil Kelly whose Space Wolves are, at least fluffwise, just barely more digestible than Ward's vanilla marines?

Seriously, one can say many bad things about Ward's fluff, some of them are even justified, but when it comes to writing balanced rules with very few useless unit entries he is actually quite good.

Agreed, for the most part. I like Andy Hoare though.

But seriously, his Ultras are OF COURSE all that could possibly matter, right? Anyone Who Doesn't Agree Is In need of Total Retconning


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I don't want him to do Black Templars, I wouldn't risk him turning them into another Codex Chapter, which would be a travesty a thousand times worse than any problem people have with the Grey Knights codex.

That would be hersey enough to make almost every single space marine player burn down the LGS in America and Europe. If GW does do that, they will have looting and the worst types of gamers will come and a new group will arise from the angry gamers. The Wagh Dakkivist group.... which specialize in photoshopping and buying nongw armies to play at tournaments and breaking rules and hacking GW's website for lulz

I don't think BT are that loved...

Well I would burn down my LGS if that would happen. not saying I would just saying metaphorically I would burn down GW's image in my mind.

And it would be the fourth codex ruined by Matt Ward.

5th

WHFB Daemons.

The gentleman this topic is regarding is currently "He Who Shall Not Be Named" and the saying of his name is banned from our gaming table.

I love how "But it's from 4Chan so it doesn't count!!!!!" is like some sort of 'get-out-of-argument-free' card?

It doesn't count because it's from 4chan.

4chan is for all intents and purposes "that guy" from high school who constantly quotes Monty Python to the point that it stops being funny.

And thus it comes to pass, we have a poster with so much love for their faction it gives Melissa pause. Truly hoped this day would never come.

"Because it's from 4Chan" does not constitute a good enough reason to ignore what's written there.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"Because it's from 4Chan" does not constitute a good enough reason to ignore what's written there.

Sure it does.

And Kurgash:
I play a Dark Angels Successor Chapter and a WIP Cadian Guard force.

I have no particular interest in Ward's books, outside of the fact that at some point I'd like to do a fluffy Raven Guard force(which means of course that Codex: Space Marines is necessary for it since it's the most flexible thing to work from), or any interest in Ward beyond the fact that he's a rules writer who seemingly understands the basics of 'balance' but needs to grasp 'fluff sensibility'.

I do think he's getting far too much flak, however, especially compared to the examples of Thorpe, Hoare, Cavatore, and Haines--who produced just as bad of fluff and rules as Ward is supposed to have produced, yet were seemingly given a pass.

im2randomghgh wrote:

5th

WHFB Daemons.

That wasn't so much a ruined book as a ruined game edition, haha!

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:"Because it's from 4Chan" does not constitute a good enough reason to ignore what's written there.

Sure it does.

And Kurgash:
I play a Dark Angels Successor Chapter and a WIP Cadian Guard force.

I have no particular interest in Ward's books, outside of the fact that at some point I'd like to do a fluffy Raven Guard force(which means of course that Codex: Space Marines is necessary for it since it's the most flexible thing to work from), or any interest in Ward beyond the fact that he's a rules writer who seemingly understands the basics of 'balance' but needs to grasp 'fluff sensibility'.

I do think he's getting far too much flak, however, especially compared to the examples of Thorpe, Hoare, Cavatore, and Haines--who produced just as bad of fluff and rules as Ward is supposed to have produced, yet were seemingly given a pass.

Actually was referring to that Grey Knight dude who plugs his ears and shouts when someone offers a decent rebuttal to his obvious fanboyish statements. Post time must have lagged prior.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"Because it's from 4Chan" does not constitute a good enough reason to ignore what's written there.

From my limited experiences with 4chan, though admittedly it's mostly been with Anon on one of their silly Internet forum raids, they're not exactly a shining beacon of truthiness. Can I say truthiness or did Mr. Colbert copyright it?

More specifically, my experiences with them has led me to believe that Anon at the least, if not all of 4chan, extensively uses hyperbolic rhetoric, often without factual basis, more often with intent to troll and disrupt.

I must admit that I don't know about the 40k stuff on 4chan, since I don't visit their site outside of links that people send me related to 40k stuff.