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What bugs me the most is the way GW addressed the problems... "flash can be taken with your fingers, mouldlines go away like butter and bubbles a drop of supper glue"... Instead of saying someting like... "sorry folks we had some quality problems on first batch but we will make it better, its a new thing for us you know etc...."

If you dont identify a problem like one you will never try to fix it and this seems, unfortunatly, were all is heading to. I do hope Im 100% wrong here and that they regroup and solve these issues.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Because those 25 more years of experience in the industry aren't in working with large scale production runs of resin, maybe?

Then as the industry leader (especially one claiming that the products of these runs are the finest minis EVAR!!), they should maintain a higher level of quality control and not put out the product until it actually meets their own claims.

I'm not debating that. I'm debating this stupid idea that the entire range is doomed to failure because three people have posted 'reviews' of product that was likely going to be returned to GW by the shops that had them.

And the manufacturers admitting to flaws and even telling customers to fix it themselves is ok? Gee, next time just take your plate back to the kitchen at your favorite restaurant and fix it yourself. Yeah, that flies over like a lead balloon, why then is it ok for GW to tell us that?

Not the same thing and you damned well know it.

I play a game. I don't enjoy the modelling aspects of the "hobby" nor am I particularly good at it. If I buy a product and there obvious defects, I'll ask for a replacement. The problem that I have with that is in the frequency. If it is proven that finecast figures have a higher frequency of of quality control issues then I'll be put out in that I'll have to take MY time to fix THEIR issue. I don't think GW plans on coming to my work and doing my job for me so why should I do theirs?

I just went back and looked at the specific model that they used to show off in today's "What's New". The 'air bubbles' in question were tiny little imperfections along the hem of the cloak where it looked like the bubbles had popped inward leaving a tiny indentation. If they've managed to do something where that kind of thing is what happens for air bubbles--then a light coat of superglue will fix the issue by filling in the pores left behind.

And I'm pretty sure that they'll have the same replacement policy in effect.

If there aren't any issues, or they're few and far between, I welcome the change because I hate working with metal figures.

Agreed, but I really really really fething hate metal. If I have to put up with an extra 10-15 minutes of fill work or resculpting to do resin models--I don't really care. I'm already set up for that having been working on FW and modern military kits in resin for years now.

Regardless of the actual quality of the Finecast line, the way GW handles the switch is rather silly. The HQ section of Dark Elder on GW's own store contains one Finecast Haemonculus, Drazhar and two old metal Haemonculi. That's it, nothing else is available. They seem content offering advanced orders on other stuff, yet pull items that are in for the resin treatment completely, without even mentioning when they'll be back in stock. That's a brain damaging facepalm right there.

evilsponge wrote:

I mean, ffs, the guy who supposedly 'bought' this Terminator Librarian didn't notice that the storm bolter was terribly miscast even though it's a clear package and the part was in plain sight on the most visible part of the sprue? You're really going to say that doesn't set off warning bells in your head?

What are you trying to say? That this was all a conspiracy to defame GW's 'finecast' miniatures? Should I get my tinfoil hat?

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but I'm saying it's dang fishy.

Kanluwen wrote:I mean, ffs, the guy who supposedly 'bought' this Terminator Librarian didn't notice that the storm bolter was terribly miscast even though it's a clear package and the part was in plain sight on the most visible part of the sprue? You're really going to say that doesn't set off warning bells in your head?

So, to your thinking, this guys specifically picked the worst casting available to cast GWS in a bad light (to no discernible end), while simultaneously assuming good faith in not speculating that GWS probably didn't cherry-pick out the best casts available to them for use with the "Whats new today" page (to a rather obvious end)? I thinking you are warping your logic to fit your desire, there.

That being said, the bottom line here still is, at best, we don't know what the product is going to look like until it's released. Retail packaging aside, you're right in that the source is dubious, at best. Looking at GWS's track record in miniature production, one of the issues they have never really had was a poorly produced product (lets not debate sculpting quality). Sure, FW quality blows, but GWS is not FW. Their product has always been technically well produced and so in this specific aspect of their business, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I've gotten a few miscast parts (who hasn't) but they are pretty well the exception, rather then the rule, and the rarity of such has always been within my personal margin of error. The fact they have never once ever hedged on their customer service with issues like that also makes me not too worried with this (although again, better to not miscast in the first place then the handle the returns gracefully).

So we should probably wait and see.

Kanluwen wrote: If I have to put up with an extra 10-15 minutes of fill work or resculpting to do resin models--I don't really care. I'm already set up for that having been working on FW and modern military kits in resin for years now.

This also seems like another step away from new gamers/hobbyists. You don't mind so much because you've been working with it for while. What about those that do mind - that don't like to sculpt or refashion? What about the new gamers who just got into 40K, but didn't have to do any fillwork before? I don't think it'll encourage the growth of the hobby from the hobbyists point-of-view. Sure, some may love to do things like that. I, for one, want to buy a model in the state that it should be. Clean off the flash and stick it on a base. Now I have to learn about bubbles, what they do to miniatures and how to best fix them, or heating material and reshaping it - ie., things I'm not comfortable doing on something I've just spent $20 on.

All I'm saying is... If I pay $22 for a single model... It better be fething perfect.

Ouze wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I mean, ffs, the guy who supposedly 'bought' this Terminator Librarian didn't notice that the storm bolter was terribly miscast even though it's a clear package and the part was in plain sight on the most visible part of the sprue? You're really going to say that doesn't set off warning bells in your head?

So, to your thinking, this guys specifically picked the worst casting available to cast GWS in a bad light (to no discernible end), while simultaneously assuming good faith in not speculating that GWS probably didn't cherry-pick out the best casts available to them for use with the "Whats new today" page (to a rather obvious end)? I thinking you are warping your logic to fit your desire, there.

I wasn't trying to 'warp my logic to fit my desire', but I was making a point. The three individuals that we've seen posting 'reviews' have refused to say anything in particular about where they acquired the models or how.

One of those 'horribly miscast models', the Draigo one, had no noticeable flaws. At all. There's been a few other posts over on the German "Fan World" site where a guy showed his models(Draigo and Coteaz) that he got and not a one problem was on there.
The other two 'horribly miscast models'(one's in P&M here, the other is this thread) look like the kind of thing you'd spot in the packaging.

That being said, the bottom line here still is, at best, we don't know what the product is going to look like until it's released. Retail packaging aside, you're right in that the source is dubious, at best. Looking at GWS's track record in miniature production, one of the issues they have never really had was a poorly produced product (lets not debate sculpting quality). Sure, FW quality blows, but GWS is not FW. Their product has always been technically well produced and so in this specific aspect of their business, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I've gotten a few miscast parts (who hasn't) but they are pretty well the exception, rather then the rule, and the rarity of such has always been within my personal margin of error. The fact they have never once ever hedged on their customer service with issues like that also makes me not too worried with this (although again, better to not miscast in the first place then the handle the returns gracefully).

So we should probably wait and see.

Which, again, has been the point I've tried to make. We'll see what happens but right now this just seems more and more like people trying to get negative attention spotlighted on GW so soon after the whole gakstorm that was last week.

I just saw that model at my LGS and i can say that it looked beautiful the detail was amazing so far im interested in buying a model

oni wrote:All I'm saying is... If I pay $22 for a single model... It better be fething perfect.

This. I've never understood why people accept it. If we all return bad models, they'll get quality control sorted.

Returned a terrible Karl Franz, opened the replacement model in store, and tried to fit it together. It wouldn't go. Really wouldn't go. Big gaps between the parts.

"Do you use green stuff?"

"Yes, but at this price, I shouldn't need to."

They gave me another.

pretre wrote:Wow. I just saw GW's newest pic of Finecast and I have to say I am impressed with the detail. I don't see any miscasts either.

This pic is shopped. I can tell because of the pixels and the fact that there is a girl in it.

puma713 wrote:What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.

Just like you did when they were in metal, I hope.

I sure hope most of you guys are exaggerating a little. When a manufacturer puts out a new product they kinda -have- to describe it as the next best thing to sliced bread. It's a part of the corporate spiel. Microsoft, Volvo, <insert random startup>, etc. are all releasing "revolutionary" products if you read their pressreleases.

Sure, I wish GW or most other companies were a little more transparent. But it's not like it's hard to spot what's pressrelease-talk and what isn't. Is it? All this "They said it was manna from heaven BUT IT WASN'T!!!" is getting a bit tiresome.

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Because those 25 more years of experience in the industry aren't in working with large scale production runs of resin, maybe?

Then as the industry leader (especially one claiming that the products of these runs are the finest minis EVAR!!), they should maintain a higher level of quality control and not put out the product until it actually meets their own claims.

I'm not debating that. I'm debating this stupid idea that the entire range is doomed to failure because three people have posted 'reviews' of product that was likely going to be returned to GW by the shops that had them.

And the manufacturers admitting to flaws and even telling customers to fix it themselves is ok? Gee, next time just take your plate back to the kitchen at your favorite restaurant and fix it yourself. Yeah, that flies over like a lead balloon, why then is it ok for GW to tell us that?

Not the same thing and you damned well know it.

No, it's exactly the same thing....his examples are correct. The problem is that people like you have gotten used to a service or product where you pay a premium to own it, and when it comes in less than advertised, you accpet it and carry on. I've seen this attitude in other industries as well, like airsoft, where it was considered "OK" to pay $1500+ for a Systema and then have to "tinker" with it to get it work....what a load of BS......you wouldn't accpet this off a car company, and you wouldn't accept it from your local resturant...so why here?

You guys think you'Re being Whizz with your files, your green stuff and your scaple blades....but all you are really is a laughing stock. I bet GW has pictures of you on their Corporate HQ walls "The ideal customer"...sell 'em a turd and watch 'em polish it.

pixelpusher wrote:

puma713 wrote:What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.

Just like you did when they were in metal, I hope.

Sure, I would check it to make sure all the pieces were there. But I wasn't worried that I'd have to green stuff a bolter back together, no.

pixelpusher wrote:I sure hope most of you guys are exaggerating a little. When a manufacturer puts out a new product they kinda -have- to describe it as the next best thing to sliced bread. It's a part of the corporate spiel. Microsoft, Volvo, <insert random startup>, etc. are all releasing "revolutionary" products if you read their pressreleases.

Right, the difference is, generally, the new product replaces the old one with a better verson. A lot of times this is subjective (Vista replacing XP, for example), but when it is something hard-and-fast, it is more objective. To say that something is amazing, much better than its predecessor and then you hold it up to its predecessor and it has actual, realized flaws that the predecessor does not, then not only have the exaggerated their claims, but they've simply lied too.

puma713 wrote:Sure, I would check it to make sure all the pieces were there. But I wasn't worried that I'd have to green stuff a bolter back together, no.

You and me have different experience with metals then. I've had a bunch that were of questionable quality. So... I inspect them if possible.

puma713 wrote:Right, the difference is, generally, the new product replaces the old one with a better verson. A lot of times this is subjective (Vista replacing XP, for example), but when it is something hard-and-fast, it is more objective. To say that something is amazing, much better than its predecessor and then you hold it up to its predecessor and it has actual, realized flaws that the predecessor does not, then not only have the exaggerated their claims, but they've simply lied too.

Big companies "lie" most of the time. It's nothing new? As a public company they really can't say "We made a slightly worse version this time", even though we consumers would appreciate that.

Delephont wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Because those 25 more years of experience in the industry aren't in working with large scale production runs of resin, maybe?

Then as the industry leader (especially one claiming that the products of these runs are the finest minis EVAR!!), they should maintain a higher level of quality control and not put out the product until it actually meets their own claims.

I'm not debating that. I'm debating this stupid idea that the entire range is doomed to failure because three people have posted 'reviews' of product that was likely going to be returned to GW by the shops that had them.

And the manufacturers admitting to flaws and even telling customers to fix it themselves is ok? Gee, next time just take your plate back to the kitchen at your favorite restaurant and fix it yourself. Yeah, that flies over like a lead balloon, why then is it ok for GW to tell us that?

Not the same thing and you damned well know it.

No, it's exactly the same thing....his examples are correct. The problem is that people like you have gotten used to a service or product where you pay a premium to own it, and when it comes in less than advertised, you accept it and carry on.

Where does it say that? Underneath of "Model comes unassembled and some work may be necessary to assemble it"?

I've seen this attitude in other industries as well, like airsoft, where it was considered "OK" to pay $1500+ for a Systema and then have to "tinker" with it to get it work....what a load of BS......you wouldn't accept this off a car company, and you wouldn't accept it from your local resturant...so why here?

Let's see.
I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people and I wouldn't accept it from a local dining establishment because there's standards that have to be upheld.

You guys think you're being whizz with your files, your green stuff and your scalpel blades....but all you are really is a laughing stock. I bet GW has pictures of you on their Corporate HQ walls "The ideal customer"...sell 'em a turd and watch 'em polish it.

If anything is beyond my rudimentary green stuff skills or I can't fix it in under two days of work--you can bet your pants that I complain to GW or Forge World about it. I have two Inquisitor Hector Rexes right now simply because the sword on the first one was riddled with air bubbles that I couldn't just file down and get rid of.

But then again, I also y'know have paid attention to the fine print where they say that "If the product has air bubbles or other irregularities that would obscure fine detail contact us and we'll send out a replacement".

Edit was to fix a quote I forgot to do. Sorry Delephont.

pixelpusher wrote:
Big companies "lie" most of the time. It's nothing new? As a public company they really can't say "We made a slightly worse version this time", even though we consumers would appreciate that.

Right. Instead, they said the exact opposite. But. . . that's okay? We should just accept it because, "big companies lie all the time"?

Kanluwen wrote:
If anything is beyond my rudimentary green stuff skills or I can't fix it in under two days of work--you can bet your pants that I complain to GW or Forge World about it. I have two Inquisitor Hector Rexes right now simply because the sword on the first one was riddled with air bubbles that I couldn't just file down and get rid of.

You, sir, have the patience of a Saint.

There's no way I would spend an amount of time even approximating two days attempting to fix a flaw in something I purchased before contacting the manufacturer to get them to fix it.

Kanluwen wrote: I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because [i]subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people

no, you have saftey critical systems on a car, but you also have systems which are not safety critical like your I.C.E (In Car Entertainment) things like Screens in your rear head rests which don't display, or excess noise on your audio system becuase of EMC (Electro Magnetic Compatibility) issues.....these things won't kill you, but they will piss you off.

Further to your point. While I have certainly read that "miniatures come unpainted and require assembly" i don't believe I've ever read, anywhere that I would need to resculpt my miniature....would you care to cite where you have read this and provide proof. I will humbly stand corrected if you can, seriously.

Kanluwen wrote:
You guys think you're being whizz with your files, your green stuff and your scalpel blades....but all you are really is a laughing stock. I bet GW has pictures of you on their Corporate HQ walls "The ideal customer"...sell 'em a turd and watch 'em polish it.
If anything is beyond my rudimentary green stuff skills or I can't fix it in under two days of work--you can bet your pants that I complain to GW or Forge World about it. I have two Inquisitor Hector Rexes right now simply because the sword on the first one was riddled with air bubbles that I couldn't just file down and get rid of.

But then again, I also y'know have paid attention to the fine print where they say that "If the product has air bubbles or other irregularities that would obscure fine detail contact us and we'll send out a replacement".

I don't want to pay more for the same product I used to have, which also had better quality, required less GS'ing (and altogether care) than the supposed newer, higher quality product. If people feel that they're paying more for less, they have all the right to complain. Not complaining doesn't make them better hobbyists. I don't have to compare miniatures to cars or anything.

Someone once said that they wouldn't mind paying GW prices, as long as the quality is good. I am alarmed at the reviews I've read, but I'll be more than happy to buy finecast miniatures provided I don't need to have more care for it than I would with a metal miniature. Covering for manufacturing defects isn't something I want to PAY for.

On the matter of a bent staff, I'd rather have a bent staff in metal than in resin. As I'm willing to bet most people would.

Kanluwen wrote:
One of those 'horribly miscast models', the Draigo one, had no noticeable flaws. At all. There's been a few other posts over on the German "Fan World" site where a guy showed his models(Draigo and Coteaz) that he got and not a one problem was on there.
The other two 'horribly miscast models'(one's in P&M here, the other is this thread) look like the kind of thing you'd spot in the packaging.

The Draigo from 3++ has a nice huge needle vent coming from the chest decoration that is larger than the rivet it was drilled through. That's a noticeable flaw. While there doesn't seem to be any bubble issues, the venting runs close to damaging detail, but I'd have to see it close to tell.

As for other flawed models we've seen:

How about an Emperor's Champion that has a miscast Iron Cross medallion right on his chest? The one that was the very first one GW showed us in Monday's blog post introudcing Finecast?

Or an Autarch with several bubbles the break the shape of things like gems and feathers? From that same post?

Or the Blood Knight with a nice bubble in his gorget? Right in that post, too.

Or the horse for the mounted Gandalf that has had detail sanded right out? Same post.

Or the Skulltaker who has bubbles obliterating the sharp points on on his shoulder armor? The one GW is using to showcase how wonderful these are to work with in today's blog post.

These are more than just "dab some superglue" in types of issues. Some can be handled with a touch of putty work, but others are getting to the point of having to resculpt portions of the models. And these are the ones GW is showcasing on their website.

GW has repeatedly made the case that this is a "new age" for miniatures and a boon for hobbyists, and justify their "premium prices" because they sell a "premium product". A premium product would not display these kinds of issues, especially not as bad as some of these are turning out. GW has dug their own hole in this matter. If they had just said, "We're switching to resin to try and control costs" they wouldn't be being raked over the coals like this. But they are spinning out all this hype, making this into the greatest thing that's ever happened to miniatures, and the results we are seeing, including the very examples they are showing, fall short of that. In some cases, they fall short of "guy in his garage knocking out some models in his spare time."

You guys do realize it takes GW years, if ever, to admit they make mistakes?

Best example I can think of is the old hex pots with the screw tops they started selling when 3rd editions came out.

They had an excellent product with the previous line of the old pop-top jars (of which I still use several that are almost 20 years old) and replaced it with paint of lower quality and a terrible pot design that dried up within days after opening it.

They blamed their consumers for not closing the jars properly and admitted no guilt. It wasnt until other companies stepped in and provided a superior product (Thank you Vallejo and Reaper!) that GW took notice and started correcting the defective paint pots.


With Finecast- they boasted that it will make the 'best miniatures in the world'. When you talk BS to that extreme- you better be able to back it up and wow people with the product- otherwise you're falling short of your own claims and you lose even more trust.

I'm willing to work around a flaw here or there. I don't mind running a warped piece under hot water to straighten it and I'm pretty good at removing flashing. I accept cleaning up flash as part of the hobby. However, if I got the following I'd ask for a refund or a replacement.



Also, air bubbles are a big no-no. If they can be covered up by a backpack or a shoulder pad or if I could put a crusader seal (purity seal to you non-Templars) over it, fine. But if it's right in the middle of a symbol on his chest or shin guard or whatever then no. I'm not going to work around it. Refund or replace, please.

Especially considering the cost of these resin pieces. I think I'm being a pretty reasonable guy about this.

puma713 wrote:Right. Instead, they said the exact opposite. But. . . that's okay? We should just accept it because, "big companies lie all the time"?

No. I would't say "accept it". But I wouldn't use "they said" when we all know that the truth usually is pretty far from what a company says in a press release about their new product. Especially Games Workshop...
Some posters in this thread act kinda surprised when the press release isn't holding up to it's promises. Might be just me having to read through a ton of press releases & corporate publications and getting used to it / getting bitter? I wouldn't rule out the latter tbh

Ouze wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I mean, ffs, the guy who supposedly 'bought' this Terminator Librarian didn't notice that the storm bolter was terribly miscast even though it's a clear package and the part was in plain sight on the most visible part of the sprue? You're really going to say that doesn't set off warning bells in your head?

So, to your thinking, this guys specifically picked the worst casting available to cast GWS in a bad light (to no discernible end), while simultaneously assuming good faith in not speculating that GWS probably didn't cherry-pick out the best casts available to them for use with the "Whats new today" page (to a rather obvious end)? I thinking you are warping your logic to fit your desire, there.

That being said, the bottom line here still is, at best, we don't know what the product is going to look like until it's released. Retail packaging aside, you're right in that the source is dubious, at best. Looking at GWS's track record in miniature production, one of the issues they have never really had was a poorly produced product (lets not debate sculpting quality). Sure, FW quality blows, but GWS is not FW. Their product has always been technically well produced and so in this specific aspect of their business, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I've gotten a few miscast parts (who hasn't) but they are pretty well the exception, rather then the rule, and the rarity of such has always been within my personal margin of error. The fact they have never once ever hedged on their customer service with issues like that also makes me not too worried with this (although again, better to not miscast in the first place then the handle the returns gracefully).

So we should probably wait and see.

I am with Kan on this one. Who doesn;t look at a mini to check casting regardless of manufacturer - it was the case with metals and would definitely be the case with this. Heck, I used to double check Rackham metals and we all can acknowledge that their casting was pretty dang hot.

Delephont wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because [i]subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people

no, you have saftey critical systems on a car, but you also have systems which are not safety critical like your I.C.E (In Car Entertainment) things like Screens in your rear head rests which don't display, or excess noise on your audio system becuase of EMC (Electro Magnetic Compatibility) issues.....these things won't kill you, but they will piss you off.

I'd put these in the same category as me trying to get a replacement part or the like from GW directly(my LGS doesn't stock metals, and it takes the same amount of time for them to get their shipment as it does for me to buck the feth up and file a bit of flash away, then resculpt it).

In both cases, there's people you can talk to and get things fixed. To pretend that because your I.C.E. won't function correctly there's no choice but a replacement car(which in some cases might be true) is the same as a single miscast piece on a sprue is ridiculous.

Further to your point. While I have certainly read that "miniatures come unpainted and require assembly" i don't believe I've ever read, anywhere that I would need to resculpt my miniature....would you care to cite where you have read this and provide proof. I will humbly stand corrected if you can, seriously.

You and I both know damned well that they haven't said that you'd need to "resculpt your miniature", just like none of these "HIDEOUS MISCASTS" would actually require someone to sculpt the entire miniature again. Overreact more please.

legion4500 wrote:

Secondly - greenstuff loves the new stuff too. I rebuilt the power cable on top of the staff. The pinholes are gonna need something else though. There used to be a product my Mr Hobby for filling in pinholes in resin (used it when building gundams). I wonder if they still make it

They sure do! It's called Mr. Surfacer, the Mr. Surfacer 500 comes out blotchy on resin, but the 1000 works wonders. Have no idea on how it'll come on the new resin-plastic hybrids.

I have seen my fair share of miscast metals as well. Many times I have gotten a model home to then see a horrible mold line, a part that didn't fill in all the way or some other horrible flaw.

Even though I can see through the blister, and I bought it flawed, I just return it and all is well.

With the maybe 500 metal models I own, the flawed percentage has been reasonably low and acceptable to the point I still don't normally check thoroughly when buying a blister. I hope the finecast stuff is 'similar' in it is just eventually a low number which the worst I am out is a trip back to the store for a replacement.

While I don't like the idea of having to check a ton of models for bubble holes and resin flaws, I hope they will just be minimal. If GW refuses to replace a model I feel is flawed beyond my reasonable acceptance, then I will get my broom and declare shenanigans, but I have never reached that point with GW as every flawed mini froM GW and forgeworld they have easily replaced with minimal effort.

It comes down to this: Finecast is supposed to offer unsurpassed detail. It's not supposed to make you sculpt that unsurpassed detail yourself.

I don't get it. People are upset because a product can't possibly live up to its hype? Do you watch a movie trailer and think it's a perfect representation of the quality and plot of the film? Yours must be a wonderful, magical world to live in.

It's been this way since there were guys selling their "Cure-Alls" from the back of their covered wagons as they traveled from town to town. A company isn't going to say, "Buy our product! It's pretty average!"

I chuckle at those who say they rushed out and ordered 342039423 pieces of an untested product...sight unseen. Give it a little time for them to work out the kinks. Otherwise, caveat emptor.