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Grey Templar wrote:

Terajoules??? I really can't even fathom such a number.

About 63 terajoules were released by the atomic bomb that exploded over Hiroshima.

If a Turbolaser delivered even 1000 TJ, that's the equivalent of over 15x that explosion.

and my solid slug is imparting 453.

that is a damn big impact.

the claimed several trillion or whatever for a turbo-laser is insane. an energy weapon with that power wouldn't be used against vehicles. that would be a radiation weapon, everything within several hundred feet would be vaporized. Radiation levels would be massive. you could blow chunks out of planets with that(which is said to NOT be possable with a conventional Star Wars fleet)

Grey Templar wrote:and my solid slug is imparting 453.

that is a damn big impact.

Relook at your numbers. It imparts 453 MJ, not TJ. A Megajoule is 1 million Joules, or about 1/2 a TJ.

Herped a derp

My point still stands.

Grey Templar wrote:and my solid slug is imparting 453.

that is a damn big impact.

the claimed several trillion or whatever for a turbo-laser is insane. an energy weapon with that power wouldn't be used against vehicles. that would be a radiation weapon, everything within several hundred feet would be vaporized. Radiation levels would be massive. you could blow chunks out of planets with that(which is said to NOT be possable with a conventional Star Wars fleet)

A single ISD can lay waste to an entire planet.

It fits.

I have never heard of such a thing happening.


if thats true, why build the Deathstar?

if your fleet is perfectly capable of glassing a planet, why make a weapon which can blow it into asteroids?

Its complete overkill.

Because it can't break through the planetary shields.

Ratbarf wrote:Because it can't break through the planetary shields.

After enough pounding it can. Took the Lusankya a total of 5 minutes to break Coruscant's shields to escape from out of it.

If these shields indeed do stop solid particles, then how do ships which are supposed to fly through them do so?

how do Tie fighters land in a ships hanger bay?

is the shield non-existant in those vital areas(open to enemy attack)



why were the AT-ATs on Hoth able to walk through the shield, but the fleet's fighters couldn't fly through it and do strafing runs? Maybe the shield stops a certain distance above the surface(this doesn't make sense from a tactical view. the rebels would have extended it to ground level to prevent circumvention)

and why was the shield, created by an under-supplied, under-gunned, and under-powered rebel force, strong enough to resist ANY bombardment the Imperial fleet could put out(even though it contained several Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer) so that they were forced to conduct a ground assault?

Grey Templar wrote:If these shields indeed do stop solid particles, then how do ships which are supposed to fly through them do so?

how do Tie fighters land in a ships hanger bay?

is the shield non-existant in those vital areas(open to enemy attack)



why were the AT-ATs on Hoth able to walk through the shield, but the fleet's fighters couldn't fly through it and do strafing runs? Maybe the shield stops a certain distance above the surface(this doesn't make sense from a tactical view. the rebels would have extended it to ground level to prevent circumvention)

and why was the shield, created by an under-supplied, under-gunned, and under-powered rebel force, strong enough to resist ANY bombardment the Imperial fleet could put out(even though it contained several Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer) so that they were forced to conduct a ground assault?

Plot holes, my friend. Plot holes.

Or perhaps they have buttons and switches that allow them to disable the shield to let in friendly vessels. And in the case of Hoth, they didn't have the entire planet shield, just Echo Base. That's why the Empire was able to conduct a ground assault. That's pretty explicit in the movie.

Nah, that's crazy.

Grey Templar wrote:thats just the solid slugs.

I can't calculate the energy output for Bioplasma and Acid-weapon batteries.

Why not, the math is pretty easy?

at least 40k authors don't pull numbers out of their like extended universe authors do.

Terajoules??? I really can't even fathom such a number. 40k simply doesn't give us any numbers to work with other then descriptions and i can't do that math.

So, Star Wars wins, but only because they have numbers their authors made up on the spot because they needed to sound cool.

Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

I want a 40k book which gives actual weapon outputs like Star Wars has. then it would be clear that 40k wins every time.

but untill then, we have to concede to the BS numbers because we have nothing else to deal with.

Boo hoo, Star Wars fans have been doing this for years.

Canadian 5th wrote:Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

What? All of a sudden civilians have widespread access to naval weaponry?



BTW, I'm really confused with these shields. I thought it was pretty clear that they don't stop solid (relatively slow-moving) object. Hence the asteroid (in Empire Strike Back) and fighter (in Return of the Jedi) end up crashing into, and destroying, the command centre. I mean, on that alone Tyranid boarding craft look like they're going to have a picnic.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

What? All of a sudden civilians have widespread access to naval weaponry?

See Slave I in AotC.

BTW, I'm really confused with these shields. I thought it was pretty clear that they don't stop solid (relatively slow-moving) object. Hence the asteroid (in Empire Strike Back) and fighter (in Return of the Jedi) end up crashing into, and destroying, the command centre. I mean, on that alone Tyranid boarding craft look like they're going to have a picnic.

You mean the one that bashed the bridge with the shields down and still failed to kill the ISD and the fighter that killed the Eclipse after the rebel fleet knocked its shields down?

Grey Templar wrote:If these shields indeed do stop solid particles, then how do ships which are supposed to fly through them do so?

how do Tie fighters land in a ships hanger bay?

is the shield non-existant in those vital areas(open to enemy attack)

As far as I can tell, the shields cover the ship entirely, sort of like a layer of skin. The shields over the hanger bays prevents laser based weaponry from entering, while solid objects like fighters, people, crates etc can pass through easily. But the hanger doors can be closed, so that the shield would cover the whole ship, preventing anything from entering or leaving.

Grey Templar wrote:and why was the shield, created by an under-supplied, under-gunned, and under-powered rebel force, strong enough to resist ANY bombardment the Imperial fleet could put out(even though it contained several Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer) so that they were forced to conduct a ground assault?

Because bad guys never win.

@Canadian 5th: Slave 1 is not a civilian ship. It was originally used to guard a prison planet, hence being armed in the first place, and then was modified with tons of highly illegal weapons. The average civilian can't access firepower like that.

@GreyTemplar: This is kinda just conjecture, but I always figured the deflector shields worked by kinetic energy, that's why slow moving stuff could go through and why a ground assault on Hoth and the Gungans on Naboo was necessary. And I'm pretty sure Toastedandy is right about the hangar doors.

Canadian 5th wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:thats just the solid slugs.

I can't calculate the energy output for Bioplasma and Acid-weapon batteries.

Why not, the math is pretty easy?

at least 40k authors don't pull numbers out of their like extended universe authors do.

Terajoules??? I really can't even fathom such a number. 40k simply doesn't give us any numbers to work with other then descriptions and i can't do that math.

So, Star Wars wins, but only because they have numbers their authors made up on the spot because they needed to sound cool.

Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

I want a 40k book which gives actual weapon outputs like Star Wars has. then it would be clear that 40k wins every time.

but untill then, we have to concede to the BS numbers because we have nothing else to deal with.

Boo hoo, Star Wars fans have been doing this for years.

the Asteroid scene doesn't help you because those were going right through the shields and taking out Star Destroyers. guess the shields don't stop solid particles.

Who said anything about the Death Star? its kinda irrelevent when we bring super weapons into the equation. they have what I call the God effect. they are so powerful that only divine intervention could possably stop them. they are thus unacceptable for practical debate.

and I hope that was Sarcasim for my Bioplasma comment. we seriously have NO way of calculating that.

Toastedandy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:If these shields indeed do stop solid particles, then how do ships which are supposed to fly through them do so?

how do Tie fighters land in a ships hanger bay?

is the shield non-existant in those vital areas(open to enemy attack)

As far as I can tell, the shields cover the ship entirely, sort of like a layer of skin. The shields over the hanger bays prevents laser based weaponry from entering, while solid objects like fighters, people, crates etc can pass through easily. But the hanger doors can be closed, so that the shield would cover the whole ship, preventing anything from entering or leaving.

Actually, Fighters entering and leaving a ship has to do with shield modulation. Shields are set at a certain modulation to allow friendly fighters/transports/etc in and out, but to keep enemies from landing in your bays. This was even mentioned in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-wan needs to crash land on the Silent Hand but can't because the shields are up, meaning Anakin has to destroy a shield generator to let them through.

how can a shield detect whats a friendly and whats not by its physical form?

I could buy that it detects a friendly signiture and shuts down for a short period to let it through, but not that.



my point as to the Asteroid scene still stands. shields don't stop solid particles.

Grey Templar wrote:how can a shield detect whats a friendly and whats not by its physical form?

I could buy that it detects a friendly signiture and shuts down for a short period to let it through, but not that.



my point as to the Asteroid scene still stands. shields don't stop solid particles.

What? you just said yourself, the shields have to be deactivated to let friendly's through. That shows that physical objects can not move through the shields freely, so you disproved your own point

Grey Templar wrote:how can a shield detect whats a friendly and whats not by its physical form?

Ships are constantly sending off IFF(Identify Friend or Foe) codes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe

I didn't think I'd have to explain something that our military does today.

so it is a radio signel. that makes sense.


but still there is the Asteroid contradiction.

if the shields did indeed stop solid particles like claimed then the Asteroids wouldn't have much damage at all. they would have had to overload the shields first.

and the Asteroids wern't traveling very fast and for all intents and purposes would have been stationary relative to the ships. the ships were simply running into them. you can't say the force behind the astroid impacts overloaded the shields.

either the solid particle shields are fairly weak OR they simply don't exist.

Grey Templar wrote:
either the solid particle shields are fairly weak OR they simply don't exist.

Approximately 80 torpedoes and missiles of several varieties were enough to bring down one side of the shielding on the Lusankya(a Super Star Destroyer) in a single salvo(with several actually hitting home on the hull).

What asteroid contradiction?

the fact that in the movies, and in some stories, Asteroids go right through the shields and take out ships.


if there were shields which stopped solid matter then this wouldn't happen. or the shields which do this are fairly weak.

Grey Templar wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:thats just the solid slugs.

I can't calculate the energy output for Bioplasma and Acid-weapon batteries.

Why not, the math is pretty easy?

at least 40k authors don't pull numbers out of their like extended universe authors do.

Terajoules??? I really can't even fathom such a number. 40k simply doesn't give us any numbers to work with other then descriptions and i can't do that math.

So, Star Wars wins, but only because they have numbers their authors made up on the spot because they needed to sound cool.

Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

I want a 40k book which gives actual weapon outputs like Star Wars has. then it would be clear that 40k wins every time.

but untill then, we have to concede to the BS numbers because we have nothing else to deal with.

Boo hoo, Star Wars fans have been doing this for years.

the Asteroid scene doesn't help you because those were going right through the shields and taking out Star Destroyers. guess the shields don't stop solid particles.

Who said anything about the Death Star? its kinda irrelevent when we bring super weapons into the equation. they have what I call the God effect. they are so powerful that only divine intervention could possably stop them. they are thus unacceptable for practical debate.

and I hope that was Sarcasim for my Bioplasma comment. we seriously have NO way of calculating that.

I don't understand how you can disregard superweapons when they are such a fundamental part of the Star Wars universe. So many plots of both the movies and the extended universe revolve around them. That would be like saying "You can't consider the Tyranids' bio-titans, they're just too powerful." Take a look at the list of all the superweapons that have been involved throughout the SW timeline, and tell me they are irrelevant. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superweapon

Grey Templar wrote:the fact that in the movies, and in some stories, Asteroids go right through the shields and take out ships.


if there were shields which stopped solid matter then this wouldn't happen. or the shields which do this are fairly weak.

I dont remember anything like that in the movies, are you talking about star wars movies? or other space movies

Empire Strikes Back,

they are chasing the Millenium Falcon through an asteroid field.

Vader is talking to his commanders on Hologram.

you will notice in the exterior shot before the scene that an asteroid smashes the bridge of a Star Destroyer.

Then one of the Holograms stutters and disappears.

they are also talking about how they are taking damage from the asteroids.






I disregard Super Weapons, and Star wars super weapons in particular, because they are simply rediclous. small absurdities are forgivable in Science Fiction, but not of the scale that Star Wars has.

Death Star: a laser that can destroy a planet. the power that the laser would need to accomplish this task is impossable. the DS would need to be completely filled with generators and have an incredibly tiny crew to power the thing. even then, it would more likely simply blow a chunk out of the planet rather then blow it into space dust.

the Starkiller(or whatever that fighter sized ship that fires Resonance torpedos to blow up stars): Resonance. on a Star. from a torpedo fired from a starfighter. This takes the cake for absurdity. also, its Fanfic which i absolutly detest.


the Star Wars Fanfic crowd seems to have a fetish for super weapons and they keep trying to out do each other. it cheapens the scaryness of the Death Star. why was it so scary if super weapons of that power had come around before and would come around again.


but to be fair, I woudn't include Exterminatus when comparing the IoM and Star Wars.

Grey Templar wrote:Empire Strikes Back,

they are chasing the Millenium Falcon through an asteroid field.

Vader is talking to his commanders on Hologram.

you will notice in the exterior shot before the scene that an asteroid smashes the bridge of a Star Destroyer.

Then one of the Holograms stutters and disappears.

they are also talking about how they are taking damage from the asteroids.






I disregard Super Weapons, and Star wars super weapons in particular, because they are simply rediclous. small absurdities are forgivable in Science Fiction, but not of the scale that Star Wars has.

Death Star: a laser that can destroy a planet. the power that the laser would need to accomplish this task is impossable. the DS would need to be completely filled with generators and have an incredibly tiny crew to power the thing. even then, it would more likely simply blow a chunk out of the planet rather then blow it into space dust.

the Starkiller(or whatever that fighter sized ship that fires Resonance torpedos to blow up stars): Resonance. on a Star. from a torpedo fired from a starfighter. This takes the cake for absurdity. also, its Fanfic which i absolutly detest.


the Star Wars Fanfic crowd seems to have a fetish for super weapons and they keep trying to out do each other. it cheapens the scaryness of the Death Star. why was it so scary if super weapons of that power had come around before and would come around again.


but to be fair, I woudn't include Exterminatus when comparing the IoM and Star Wars.

If they're plowing through an asteroid field, it's logical to assume they've been there a while, and taken dozens of hits from asteroids. The shields collapse from the prolonged pounding, and one slips through.

Regardless of how you see them, superweapons are an integral part of Star Wars canon. You do NOT disregard them simply because you don't think they make sense. They make sense in the setting, and adhere to the precedent put forth by the highest level of canon. Whether or not you like it, they're there.

Also, I'm not sure how stupid you have to be to think that the EU is fanfic.

Canadian 5th wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:Oh, so the Death Star which puts out 4.184e+37 joules of energy was never seen now? How about the asteroid scene that showed even a small vessel was able to blow away large asteroids with weapons that even a civilian can get? Not to mention the asteroid scene with the ISD's.

What? All of a sudden civilians have widespread access to naval weaponry?

See Slave I in AotC.

BTW, I'm really confused with these shields. I thought it was pretty clear that they don't stop solid (relatively slow-moving) object. Hence the asteroid (in Empire Strike Back) and fighter (in Return of the Jedi) end up crashing into, and destroying, the command centre. I mean, on that alone Tyranid boarding craft look like they're going to have a picnic.

You mean the one that bashed the bridge with the shields down and still failed to kill the ISD and the fighter that killed the Eclipse after the rebel fleet knocked its shields down?

SLAVE 1 is not a civilian craft, it was taken from a Heavily guarded military galactic prison. I have played every single Starwars game that is based on the books and the movies, and every time I was completely destroyed by a single ship, each time it crashed into me. And I blew up.
No the Eclipse was destroyed because they had no more crew to pilot it, the entire bridge was destroyed, if that happens your pretty muched analed.