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Brother Coa wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:I hate Space Marines, especially the Ultrasmurfs and Blood Ravens!

My 2 favorite chapters...I can understand the poster thing and the attention and all but - why?

Because they both appear in almost all Warhammer 40000-related stuff (posters, video games, movie etc) and for many people 40k associates primarily with Space Marines despite many other interesting races existing in that universe.

Brother Coa wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:I hate Space Marines, especially the Ultrasmurfs and Blood Ravens!

My 2 favorite chapters...I can understand the poster thing and the attention and all but - why?


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im2randomghgh wrote:

Kazerkinelite wrote:Tau and orks...two dumbest races. Tau are anime in space and orks are cartoons in space. The way they are presented just doesn't feel 40k to me

Less anime here?

Japanese like culture, Far-East like music, giant battlesuits, high tech, strange look, overpowered stuff....
Sounds like anime to me...

Their culture is more similar to that of soviet russia's. The Imperium of Man has giant battlesuits (dreads, knights, terminators, titans, legio cybernetica), high technology, looks MUCH stranger than tau and have Imperators, which are overpowered.

That kinda backfired for you, didn't it?

Though I do admit their models are anime-inspired, even if their fluff isn't.

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
Japanese like culture, Far-East like music, giant battlesuits, high tech, strange look, overpowered stuff....
Sounds like anime to me...

Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

I so called this.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Next we'll here that Tau are overpowered. Them Firewarriors are unbeatable in CC.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/400938.page#top

TrollPie wrote:
Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

Really?
Like guns that can shoot a fly from half a planet?
Or battlesuits who carry firepower to tear down a Titan in 1 shot?

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

Really?
Like guns that can shoot a fly from half a planet?
Or battlesuits who carry firepower to tear down a Titan in 1 shot?

Lmao, how about 3rd Edition codex?

im2randomghgh wrote:

Fuzz wrote:Imperial Fists. I'm an Iron warriors player so obvious choice. plus Rogal Dorn is a donkeyhat.

followed by tau. Shoot from the other side of the board and run away from close combat situations!

followed by eldar. Sorry to the people sticking up for eldar but the are stuck up b s that need to realise they aren't as awesome as they seem to think.

-_- you be hatin' all my factions.

butbutbut...DORN WAS COOL. He was all noble and honest and duel-y. PLUS HE HAD A BITCHIN' MOUSTACHE!

I don't hate them as such, they're just the armies that annoy me the most. Which in a game is a good thing because it's more fun that way. I have such a dislike for Dorn due to the fluff about his and Perturabo's relationship which, basically consisted of Dorn taking the mick out of Perturabo and then telling him although he is a siege specialist he would never crack the defences of Holy Terra.... Which Perturabo then pretty much managed to do. Also Dorn then proved himself further as a donkeyhat by refusing assistance with the the seige of the eternal fortress, at which he lost a good portions of his fisters. also.... Yellow? completely yellow!? REALLY!!?

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

Really?
Like guns that can shoot a fly from half a planet?
Or battlesuits who carry firepower to tear down a Titan in 1 shot?

Lmao, how about 3rd Edition codex?

Still, guns that pick Guardsman and Astartes like flies from 5 miles away...

Brother Coa wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

Really?
Like guns that can shoot a fly from half a planet?
Or battlesuits who carry firepower to tear down a Titan in 1 shot?

Lmao, how about 3rd Edition codex?

Still, guns that pick Guardsman and Astartes like flies from 5 miles away...

Every army has a gun like that. The hell are you talking about.

Brother Coa wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Overpowered? Oh God no. Not in fluff or on the tabletop. No.

Really?
Like guns that can shoot a fly from half a planet?
Or battlesuits who carry firepower to tear down a Titan in 1 shot?

Lmao, how about 3rd Edition codex?

Still, guns that pick Guardsman and Astartes like flies from 5 miles away...

Umm...Not sure if you've noticed...but at five miles away, guard can use their artillery to full effect. When the IG uses artillery, they win.


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Fuzz wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Fuzz wrote:Imperial Fists. I'm an Iron warriors player so obvious choice. plus Rogal Dorn is a donkeyhat.

followed by tau. Shoot from the other side of the board and run away from close combat situations!

followed by eldar. Sorry to the people sticking up for eldar but the are stuck up b s that need to realise they aren't as awesome as they seem to think.

-_- you be hatin' all my factions.

butbutbut...DORN WAS COOL. He was all noble and honest and duel-y. PLUS HE HAD A BITCHIN' MOUSTACHE!

I don't hate them as such, they're just the armies that annoy me the most. Which in a game is a good thing because it's more fun that way. I have such a dislike for Dorn due to the fluff about his and Perturabo's relationship which, basically consisted of Dorn taking the mick out of Perturabo and then telling him although he is a siege specialist he would never crack the defences of Holy Terra.... Which Perturabo then pretty much managed to do. Also Dorn then proved himself further as a donkeyhat by refusing assistance with the the seige of the eternal fortress, at which he lost a good portions of his fisters. also.... Yellow? completely yellow!? REALLY!!?

He didn't manage it. The loyalists won the battle.

Plus, Yellow is so bright, that to go into battle wearing it, you'd need balls like grape fruits. And idk why, but I always picture the fists as gold in my mind, even though they aren't.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:
Every army has a gun like that. The hell are you talking about.

Orks don't, Eldar have but less powerfull and on medium range, Tyranids have teeth's, Dark Eldar have Dark Lances ( range but lack the power ), Necrons have powerful guns but lack range...
Tau have the biggest range of all races ( in fluff ), Their Railguns can tear Titan in few shots ( Taros ). And not to mention that they have that guns now in small infantry scale ( pathfinders ). If Tau are overpowered it is in their firepower, and their battlesuits carry a both anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons, and they rarely miss.


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im2randomghgh wrote:
Their culture is more similar to that of soviet russia's. The Imperium of Man has giant battlesuits (dreads, knights, terminators, titans, legio cybernetica), high technology, looks MUCH stranger than tau and have Imperators, which are overpowered.

That kinda backfired for you, didn't it?

Though I do admit their models are anime-inspired, even if their fluff isn't.

The good example of culture orientation is music.





Imperium sound more like epic, European empire then anime culture. And their battlesuits don't look like anime at all while Tau does.
On the other hand Tau sound just like Far-East ( they remind me of Japan ).
Tau are in fact mix of communism, far east anime and Japan's techological mastery.

Orks don't, Eldar have but less powerfull and on medium range, Tyranids have teeth's, Dark Eldar have Dark Lances ( range but lack the power ), Necrons have powerful guns but lack range...
Tau have the biggest range of all races ( in fluff ), Their Railguns can tear Titan in few shots ( Taros ). And not to mention that they have that guns now in small infantry scale ( pathfinders ). If Tau are overpowered it is in their firepower, and their battlesuits carry a both anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons, and they rarely miss.

Wait what? You seem to be comparing fluff to gameplay, and back to fluff....which doesn't work in the slightest.

In gameplay, Guard have the longest range (hard to beat infinite, but 240" is quite high up there too). In fluff, guard probably have the longest range (still hard to beat a basilisk). In Dawn of War, guard have the longest range (STILL hard to beat a basilisk).

And where do you get that Tau rarely miss?

Necrons have guns that can one-shot imperial battleships from the ground

5 miles is not a problem ;0)

Nids have ranged nasties. The most recent iteration of the walking artillery piece is the Tyrannofex, but they have more than just teeth-laden space-dinosaurs

Eldar have some extremely ugly long-ranged stuff too. You don't generally get to see it on the table, but it does exist in the fluff. Some of their superheavies/titans have some extremely ugly guns.

Orks do have long ranged guns (on the tabeltop and in the fluff). They generally prefer to be at krumping range, but lootas and SAG (from the regular codex stuff) have a decently long range. Fluffwise they have reduced fortresses to rubble from space before, so they CAN make long ranged weapons

That all stands but fluff wise: Tau are known for having one of the most powerful ranged weapons ( Railgun ) in very high concentration and with very long ranges. It is not told without reason "If you want a range army - go Tau".

True.

Now if only they'd let the little blue guys actually be decent shots... ;D

For annoy army I just quoted one funny but very true sentence: "Technologically advanced space communists capable of picking them off like flies a mile away".

Tau aren't communists.

Their government more resembles an Indian caste system.

For the Grater Good. Let all races of the galaxy be united and equal among themselves. All are welcome, free food for all, free shelter for all, free protection for all - in the name of the Grater Good!!!

Brother Coa wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:
Every army has a gun like that. The hell are you talking about.

Orks don't, Eldar have but less powerfull and on medium range, Tyranids have teeth's, Dark Eldar have Dark Lances ( range but lack the power ), Necrons have powerful guns but lack range...
Tau have the biggest range of all races ( in fluff ), Their Railguns can tear Titan in few shots ( Taros ). And not to mention that they have that guns now in small infantry scale ( pathfinders ). If Tau are overpowered it is in their firepower, and their battlesuits carry a both anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons, and they rarely miss.


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im2randomghgh wrote:
Their culture is more similar to that of soviet russia's. The Imperium of Man has giant battlesuits (dreads, knights, terminators, titans, legio cybernetica), high technology, looks MUCH stranger than tau and have Imperators, which are overpowered.

That kinda backfired for you, didn't it?

Though I do admit their models are anime-inspired, even if their fluff isn't.

The good example of culture orientation is music.





Imperium sound more like epic, European empire then anime culture. And their battlesuits don't look like anime at all while Tau does.
On the other hand Tau sound just like Far-East ( they remind me of Japan ).
Tau are in fact mix of communism, far east anime and Japan's techological mastery.

It doesn't matter what their battlesuits look like. I already said the models are anime-ish. Fluff wise, there is no difference with the battlesuits.

And really? You're basing it on music? Plus the only asian-y part of that music was the pan flute, which is found in many other cultures too. Plus the song has nothing to do with fluff, which we're discussing.

And to be fair, in every area outside of robotics, american tech is more advanced than Japan's. They have lasers, railguns and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAHEM (it flies into the air, releases molten metal which then solidifies into a guided metal shaft and is to be used as a bunker buster [bunker stabber?])


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Coolyo294 wrote:

I lol'd so hard.


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Void__Dragon wrote:Tau aren't communists.

Their government more resembles an Indian caste system.

Utilitarianism is probably closer to the mark.

Brother Coa wrote:Japanese like culture,

Oh look, somebody who thinks he knows something about Japan.

How about you actually name some specific similarities between the Tau culture and the Japanese culture?

Brother Coa wrote:Japanese like culture, Imperium sound more like epic, European empire then anime culture. And their battlesuits don't look like anime at all while Tau does.

Which anime? I've noticed that people seem hesitant to mention what anime robots the Tau battlseuits resemble.

I still think Games Workshop ripped off Shockwave and painted him tan.

Brother Coa wrote:On the other hand Tau sound just like Far-East ( they remind me of Japan ).
Tau are in fact mix of communism, far east anime and Japan's techological mastery.

Japan doesn't have "technological mastery," nor do the Tau. The Tau aren't wizards, they're just far more willing to innovate than the Adeptus Mechanicus and far more willing to distribute technologies into other purposes. The Tau technology is actually worse than Imperium tech in some of the most important areas.

Also, how the hell are the Tau overpowered in the fluff? The entire point of their fluff is that they're underpowered.

Oh annoying factions eh?

Space Wolves, Tau, and Tyranids.

*walks away*

How about you actually name some specific similarities between the Tau culture and the Japanese culture?

Not really cultural, but the flat, rectangular armor seen on battlesuits and fire warriors (legs and shoulders) resembles samurai armor.

That's really the only major connection I can see, but I don't see why that can be thought of as a problem (unless you hate the Japanese, but I'm not going to bother with that).

clively wrote:... except for the fact that the Necrontyr have nothing to fear from the Tyranids. 'Nids need biomass, Necrontyr are... metal robots. Not exactly good feeding unless you need a lot of iron in your diet. Which gets rid of the primary purpose of a Nid: Eat and Grow.

Then, of course, you have the Necron weapons which tear apart an enemies atoms. Doesn't exactly leave a whole lot for the little critters to scoop back up if they do happen to win.

Except the Tyranids want the planet, not the population. If there's something they can use on the planet, they'll strip it. Everyhing. Soil, gases, liquids, anything they can use. They also get far, far, far more from the entire biosphere than the sentient population inhabiting the planet. What they get from that is genetic templates to manipulate.

clively wrote:Hence the reason why Tyranid Hive fleets avoid planets with Necrons on them. Even if the poor little buggers manage to win... they lose: No biomass left to harvest.

Can you actually point me to this fluff? The only fluff I've seenis them avoiding one area, which is also the suspected location of the Outsiders Dyson Sphere, which is something no race would want to approach.

clively wrote:2. Barring that, the Nids would never have engaged the Necrons.

If they were on the planet, and opposed the Tyranids, they'd attack them. Again, it's the planet they want, not the population inhabiting it.

-Loki- wrote:Can you actually point me to this fluff? The only fluff I've seenis them avoiding one area, which is also the suspected location of the Outsiders Dyson Sphere, which is something no race would want to approach.

Page 11 of the current Tyranid codex for one, has them making major alterations to avoid a Tomb World.

It's also mentioned in the Necron codex, Tyranids avoiding Tomb Worlds.

You have to remember, Tomb Worlds also tend to be completely dead, lacking even bacterium. The Necrons are not a fun opponent for Tyranids, because they can't use them to replenish biomass, and the Necrons disallow them to use their dead as well.

Though I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for a Tyranid fleet, if the Hive Mind was confident in it, to attack a Tomb World for whatever reason.

They've done it twice, once when Blood Angels were fighting them, another where Tau just happened to inhabit the Tomb World.

So if the World has something the Hive Mind wants, it would attack it, but Tomb Worlds usually don't, I guess.

Ail-Shan wrote:Not really cultural, but the flat, rectangular armor seen on battlesuits and fire warriors (legs and shoulders) resembles samurai armor.

That's really the only major connection I can see, but I don't see why that can be thought of as a problem (unless you hate the Japanese, but I'm not going to bother with that).

That's a neat aesthetic note. I never really noticed it, but that is pretty cool. I always thought the leg plates would work better against long-range threats than close-range threats (Unlike full body plate mail), so that would definitely fit the Tau style of combat.

That makes me want to make an Ork army with scavenged Tau plates bolted on their leg/shoulder armor, and Black Orc helmets with menpo masks. The Samurorks long fought for their Boss, Shugun Sengorku, each Samurork protecting (And krumping) a squad of his own... Too bad I lack modeling skill.

im2randomghgh wrote:
It doesn't matter what their battlesuits look like. I already said the models are anime-ish. Fluff wise, there is no difference with the battlesuits.

It matters.

And really? You're basing it on music? Plus the only asian-y part of that music was the pan flute, which is found in many other cultures too. Plus the song has nothing to do with fluff, which we're discussing.

If you read my post you would see that I have said: "Every large Earth cuture has a unique music to itself". Tau theme sound like having China or Japan origin to me, unless you are suggesting that it's Canadian in origin

And to be fair, in every area outside of robotics, american tech is more advanced than Japan's. They have lasers, railguns and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAHEM (it flies into the air, releases molten metal which then solidifies into a guided metal shaft and is to be used as a bunker buster [bunker stabber?])

We all know that technologically Japan is the most advanced nation on Earth ( just see super fast magnetic trains, walking, talking, emotional robots, advanced computers...), just because US has few better gadgets doesn't mean that they are technologically ahead of America.



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Molten Butter wrote:
How about you actually name some specific similarities between the Tau culture and the Japanese culture?

Fire Warrior training and combat doctrines = Samurai ( even their cc swords are like katanas ).
Advanced technology and having a sense for it and also wanting to develop more.
Very strong ideological people.
Some things are done in Japanese Manga style.

Which anime? I've noticed that people seem hesitant to mention what anime robots the Tau battlseuits resemble.

I still think Games Workshop ripped off Shockwave and painted him tan.

Not a specific anime, but everybody first saw big robots and battle-suits in Japanese cartoons. And their obsessions with robots point to that.
Also, the way that battle-suits are done ( lines, weapon looks, even colors ) they look like they get out of some Japanese futuristic cartoon then from any other sci-fi book.

Also, how the hell are the Tau overpowered in the fluff? The entire point of their fluff is that they're underpowered.

They are overpowered in sense of ranged weapons. For a small galactic race with only slightly over 100 worlds they survived Imperium invasion, even conquer several worlds ( of course they now hold only 1 or 2 systems from initional several ), Tyranid invasion... And they have guns that makes even Necron weapons weak in comparison ( shooting a Guardsman from several km away and blowing him up in a single shot ).

But to sum up Tau:

Ideology = Communism
Society = Indian caste system
War doctrines and looks = Japanese
Culture = Japanese

Brother Coa wrote:Fire Warrior training and combat doctrines = Samurai ( even their cc swords are like katanas ).
Advanced technology and having a sense for it and also wanting to develop more.
Very strong ideological people.
Some things are done in Japanese Manga style.

Whoa, wait what? Samurai pile out of Devilfish and blast the enemy from range? I thought Samurai rode on horses and impaled each other on spears and swords. The kind of thing Tau consider barbaric and crude.
Do we even know what the Fire Warrior training doctrine is like? Much less, is it even comparable to a Samurai?

And if I recall, the Fire Warrior bonding knife just looks like a general combat utility knife, and certainly nothing like a katana. Not even Farsight's Dawnblade is anything reminiscent of East Asian design...

Sorry, but the comments you make regarding the Tau and how similar they are to Japanese culture is largely one giant sweeping generalisation, and is somewhat culturally insensitive. If they give you the 'feel' or 'impression' of something Japanese inspired, that's cool, but I wouldnt label a fictional race that draws inspiration from various sources as being flat out 'Japanese', especially when you seem to be drawing on stereotypical inferences of both modern and traditional Japan.

Brother Coa wrote:Ideology = Communism
Society = Indian caste system
War doctrines and looks = Japanese
Culture = Japanese

As for ideology, they seem to be more of a meritocracy than communistic. They award members of specific castes completely on their contributions (and thus, their Merit) to the Great Good.
As for the societal caste system, this is probably one instance where I would agree with you that the Tau are similar to feudal Japanese structure. Back in those days, there were distinct lines drawn between the warrior caste, the merchant caste, the farmer caste and so on.

And yeah, Im still really confused about what part of Tau war doctrine is 'Japanese'. Could you provide an example of what you mean?

Nothing about the tau war doctrine is japanese. The tau have a very amarican outlook on war and weapons. It starts with there love of jets and air power. Then how they treat there weapons. For a samurai, there sword is a part of them. For the tau, there pulse rifle is a tool that they could easy discard for any other weapon. (That's also an American concept.)

Most of topics in WH40k discussion are about Space Marines? How can this be?

Farseer Petriel wrote:Most of topics in WH40k discussion are about Space Marines? How can this be?

Its because of the smurfs...