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It seems like every tactica that mentions HQ for orks says avoid the psykers as you are far more likely to do an injury to yourself than the enemy. I am curious how they come up with these numbers? The worst result is a zapp which although it is a blast is a small template. You still have to roll to wound. If your psyker is by himself then at worst he will take a wound. If he is with a unit then make sure that the unit has sensible spacing. If he is a warphead then you only have a 1/36 or 3% chance of getting this result.

The other inconvenient result is 'ere we go. That sucks if you don't have your warphead with a unit or if you don't want to reroll it. However it can also mean that squad of shootas or ardboyz that you have attached the warphead to may be in an unexpected location and able to shoot at squads they couldn't previously. That doesn't seem too awful and certainly less of a lottery than the shokk attack gun.

Apart from that zzap and frazzle are both autohitting and killing MEQs. I mean zzapp is awesome. A strength 10 36" range melta will autokill a lot of things and even scare landraiders and monoliths. An extra waagh is never bad or giving the squad an extra attack is all pretty cool as well. Seems like good value for 85 points. Oh yeah in the second round of combat there is a 50/50 chance that your warphead is now using a power weapon!!!

As for Zoggy, I was in a battle recently when abaddon turned up. He pretty much reamed everything including Ghazzkhul thrakka. However if he had been turned into a squig that would have made my life alot easier. 50/50 chance to negate an IC!!! There are some scarey IC's out there. Another battle had Grimgarr in it with his "everything is my preferred enemy" power. Lets reroll everything. Another prime candidate for squighood.

Obviously a warphead or zoggy is not the combat monster that a tooled up warlord is. If you stick your warphead with a large unit (remembering spacing) then you don't need him in a combat roll in the same way it seems to me.

Anyway that's how it seems to me. I know the KFF rocks if you have lots of vehicles. Ghazz is alo very cool. For 225 points he should be. I just think that warpheads and zoggy are underrated and don't understand why?

Not that people hate them its more they like the War-bosses and Big Meks better. They just can't compete.

They're quite random, is why.

I mean, sure, Warpheads can re-roll, but it's still random. You can't rely on rolling the power you want all the time.

However, you CAN rely on KFF and/or Ghazzy's multitude of attacks.

Zogwort is slightly better than your average Warphead, but he still has a good chance of killing himself or whatnot.

I think the big problem is their randomness.

For HQs, warpheads are up against some serious competition.

Warbosses: S10, can be bike mounted to bring the pain anywhere on the board, Allow nobs to be taken as troops. Not only killy and dead'ard, but they give you access to scoring nobs. Plus, without one Land Raiders laugh at your puny s9 klaws hitting on 6s.

Big Meks: Kustom Force Field. It doesn't really matter what kind of army you're playing, this is a useful thing. Who could say no to keeping and extra 1/3 of your infantry and 1/2 of your vehicles alive and kicking? Also, for those who like it, the SAG provides some large-template shooting with solid AP (variable strength aside).


Now, that being said, not everyone always takes a warboss and a KFF mek. There are many options. But it's very rare to find a list that doesn't take at least one of them. They fulfill unique roles in the army, and are a large part of what makes many builds 'tick' (I.E. Kan Walls, BW spam, etc)

Weirdboyz, however, don't fill a specific role (mandatory psyker doesn't count). Depending on your rolling, you could cause some damage to enemy troops, they could unleash the only Ork Melta, they could cause a Waagh!, they could deep strike randomly.

Now, there are uses for these things. I guarantee you that if a weirdboy simply had the option to choose which power he uses in a turn they would be more common (especially for that juicy melta shot). But as it stands, yeah, lots of what he can do can be useful, except that the abilities are situational. Getting 'ere we go on turn one is great if you want to drop 30 boyz right in the opponent's face so he won't touch the other 150 boyz. Dropping templates is something that's frequently useful. A Melta gun is perfect if there's a vehicle nearby.

All too often one finds oneself, even with the reroll, having to deepstrike a unit that was just about to drive home a sweet charge. Or taking a single melta potshot at an IG blob. Or rolling up a bonus WAAAGH on the turn you've already called one.

That is why I feel weirdboyz aren't common. They randomly get situationally useful powers, and don't bring any consistency to a list.

Pretty much what has been said before. They are random, and do not provide troop slot flexibility.

Also if you're rolling twice on the table to get a specific power, it can bite you in the end, because it's another chance to roll a 1.

In addition, IIRC the only upgrade available to weirdboyz is warphead. They can not upgrade to 'eavy armor or cybork bodies (at least not without the mad doc). I could be wrong about that, I don't have my codex to hand, but I believe that is the case.

A two wound model with a 6+ save will get smushed in CC with being targeted out. And they have a 50% chance to get power weapon attacks in CC (providing they survive the first round), while most other psykers are equipped with ID capable force weapons or wytch blades.

That being said, I like using Weirdboyz, they're fun. However I wouldn't take them to a serious game.

I guess the other answer to add, besides the randomness of it all, is that Orks is made to krump stuff, not that sissy Eldar psychic stuff.

That said, I enjoy taking Zogwort in friendly/non-competitive games. I fondly remember turning a couple of SM Termys into squigs...something oddly satisfying about it.

Ecurb The Mighty wrote:I fondly remember turning a couple of SM Termys into squigs...something oddly satisfying about it.

You can't do that. Zog can only turn ICs into squigs, not any unit or model he wants to.

Big mek are very useful, mostly due to the KFF, and warbosses are just beasts, but what does a weirdboy do? What is his role, it seems sort of ambiguous, he can kill decent weapons, he can deepstrike a valubale unit into an opertune spot, he can make you call a Whaaaaaagh!, but you don't know what he will do, so it's hard to construct a stratigy involving him.

As a lot of other people have stated, a wierdboy/warphead/zoggy are terribly unreliable. Personally, I think that very lack of reliability can, in itself, prove to a great source of fun. Unlike a lot of people that seem to post in these forums, I play to have a good time; and if I lose because my warphead explodes a few boyz heads, oh well..at least i'll lose laughing my butt off.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:As a lot of other people have stated, a wierdboy/warphead/zoggy are terribly unreliable. Personally, I think that very lack of reliability can, in itself, prove to a great source of fun. Unlike a lot of people that seem to post in these forums, I play to have a good time; and if I lose because my warphead explodes a few boyz heads, oh well..at least i'll lose laughing my butt off.

Well it's not like anyone plays to have a bad time. Some people like to compete and test their skillz against challenging opponents, while others just like to throw dice.

Back on topic: I personally think Zogwort is one of the most underrated SCs in 40k. However, you should only take him if you don't want to take nobz or ghazhkull. I run kan wall foot orks so once I take the manditory big mek with kustom force field, I have a spare HQ slot. That's where Zoggy goes, and I think one of the reasons he works so well is because most people aren't familiar with what he can do.

If they had some sort of psychic defense, they'd be more viable.

I've heard that they're nice to have for a foot slogging army.

I don't really want to play mechanized so for now I think I will have warpheads accompany my shootas and lootas

Don't have the Warphead accompany the Lootas: they're exclusively armed with Heavy Weapons. Accompanying the Shoota Boyz is a good idea because it adds reliability to the Warphead's psychic tests, and puts him in a unit that can shoot to complement his own shooting and 'Ere We Go, and gives him a fat ablative ork-shield.

Consider, however, putting him in a unit of Flashgitz, particularly for the purposes of expoiting 'Ere We Go and his shooting powers.

Nurglitch wrote:Don't have the Warphead accompany the Lootas: they're exclusively armed with Heavy Weapons. Accompanying the Shoota Boyz is a good idea because it adds reliability to the Warphead's psychic tests, and puts him in a unit that can shoot to complement his own shooting and 'Ere We Go, and gives him a fat ablative ork-shield.

Consider, however, putting him in a unit of Flashgitz, particularly for the purposes of expoiting 'Ere We Go and his shooting powers.

I was actually planning on putting them with some grots near the back with the lootas. My list is using grot screens

ok all fair comments. I think the best place for him is with a squad of shootas. That way if you get 'ere we go then at least you have enough firepower and bodies to dent someone and maybe survive a round of shooting. Even a squad of 'ard boyz would be entertaining. I probably wouldn't go for the flashgitz because against MEQ armies there is a fifty/fifty chance that they will get their armour save anyway.

I tried to use a warphead once (friendly game, I went 'why not?')

I stuck him in a mob of shootas armed with rokkits as secondary weapons (I was against space marines, I thought the AP3 might be useful, I was new, as was my opponent at the time) I got the 'ere we go' so I deep struck into his back rank. I mishaped, and went back into reserve. While I was waiting for that big mob to come back down, he shot the rest of my army away (only 500points, so there wasn't much), they came down facing a line of boltguns....so I wanted a shooting power that turn. I got Warpath (+1 attack) which would be cool and all, but I just deepstruck, I can't assault, then I remembered, he's a Warphead! I can reroll that! So I reroll, 6 WAAAAGH......which is also pointless.

So I fire, both rokkits miss and the shootas bounce off armor, I get charged, next turn I say "If I get a 1-2 or 3 he can get a power weapon in close combat." I boxcar the psychic test, and he'd already taken a wound....so he dies from perils.

I have not used a warphead since

JEB_Stuart wrote:

Ecurb The Mighty wrote:I fondly remember turning a couple of SM Termys into squigs...something oddly satisfying about it.

You can't do that. Zog can only turn ICs into squigs, not any unit or model he wants to.

Oh I know. It was against a friend and old enemy, so we bent the rules about as far as you could.

Orks in drop pods, why not?
Marines using Big Gunz, sure!

starbomber109 wrote:I tried to use a warphead once (friendly game, I went 'why not?')

I stuck him in a mob of shootas armed with rokkits as secondary weapons (I was against space marines, I thought the AP3 might be useful, I was new, as was my opponent at the time) I got the 'ere we go' so I deep struck into his back rank. I mishaped, and went back into reserve. While I was waiting for that big mob to come back down, he shot the rest of my army away (only 500points, so there wasn't much), they came down facing a line of boltguns....so I wanted a shooting power that turn. I got Warpath (+1 attack) which would be cool and all, but I just deepstruck, I can't assault, then I remembered, he's a Warphead! I can reroll that! So I reroll, 6 WAAAAGH......which is also pointless.

So I fire, both rokkits miss and the shootas bounce off armor, I get charged, next turn I say "If I get a 1-2 or 3 he can get a power weapon in close combat." I boxcar the psychic test, and he'd already taken a wound....so he dies from perils.

I have not used a warphead since

This. Right here. His powers can easily cancel each other out and make the unit he is with unable to fight at targets they want to (Zzap is usually at fault here). And yet his powers are his only claim to fame. He is nothing special in close combat, and provides no utility for the army.

That being said, he is uproariously fun. I've built a Nob squad specifically designed to keep my Weirdboss (Zoggy) functional. Combi-rockets with Ammo Runts, Shootas, a PK or two, and a Pain Boy incase of 'Ead Banging syndrome. Really, I'm loathed to put one in a mob of boyz. Failing tests keeps him from doing stupid things, and Ld8 isn't too terrible.

Put Zoggy in a group of Boyz in a 500 point Game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Its basically a Zoggy with 33 Wounds and much more attacks

Nick wrote:Put Zoggy in a group of Boyz in a 500 point Game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Its basically a Zoggy with 33 Wounds and much more attacks

Put 30 Boyz in a 500 point game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Without Combat Patrol rules in place, 500 point games are painfully scewed in favour of the horde armies.

DarkHound wrote:

Nick wrote:Put Zoggy in a group of Boyz in a 500 point Game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Its basically a Zoggy with 33 Wounds and much more attacks

Put 30 Boyz in a 500 point game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Without Combat Patrol rules in place, 500 point games are painfully scewed in favour of the horde armies.

I've done well against orks with
Autarch (jetbike, maindiblasters, Laser lance)
Guardian Jetbike Squadron (3) (x2)
Fire Prism (x2)
492pts and more or less untouchable by them. (Lootas are clearly priority 1, nothing else really has the range to keep up)

Tri wrote:

DarkHound wrote:

Nick wrote:Put Zoggy in a group of Boyz in a 500 point Game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Its basically a Zoggy with 33 Wounds and much more attacks

Put 30 Boyz in a 500 point game and it will tear up each and every unit they have. Without Combat Patrol rules in place, 500 point games are painfully scewed in favour of the horde armies.

I've done well against orks with
Autarch (jetbike, maindiblasters, Laser lance)
Guardian Jetbike Squadron (3) (x2)
Fire Prism (x2)
492pts and more or less untouchable by them. (Lootas are clearly priority 1, nothing else really has the range to keep up)

If playing on a 4x4 table like games 1k or less should be played on, then 50 boyz and a boss can usually fill the board and not leave space to run to. Even a turbo-boost can not be enough to get over a large boyz mob. Not saying that the eldar might not be able to pull out a victory, but rather that they won't be untouched.

IMO, the most devastating eldar army against horde Orks at low points involves a farseer with guide and a unit of 3 war walkers with dual scatter lasers. The war walkers alone are killing 15 orks a round. Back it up with some dire avengers and there will be naught but a few boyz left on turn 2 of eldar shooting and none on the third turn of eldar shooting. Another dead horde Ork army would be khorne berzerkers in rhinos inflicting ridiculous no retreat casualties. The war walker eldar are still my best bet for murdering some boyz tho.

I feel like I'm missing something--

It is being said that the Weirdboyz are nice for their ability to WAGGHH without consuming the regular one that you get to use once per game but I'm not sure why.

It seems like WAAGGH in itself is not very useful except for when you feel like an extra d6 could put your boyz within range of an assault.

For example, how is a premature WAGGH beneficial to a foot slogging Shoota Boy horde? Wouldn't running cause them to lose their shots in the shooting phase?

Am I missing something vital? It seems like the waggh power is useless until you hit that assault "sweet spot"

Razzle wrote:
Am I missing something vital? It seems like the waggh power is useless until you hit that assault "sweet spot"

Yep. When your boyz are charging it's very nice (even shoota boyz in some situations) then it lets you either get into assault or get more boyz into assault, both good things. It used to be better because the codex came out in 4th edition where there was no run option and 1d6" of extra movement was nice no matter the phase.

I hate weirdboyz though. It's a unit that can give you extra movement when it does nothing, then blow itself up, then once your boyz get into assault range it teleports them out, and likely onto the mishap table. All this for the chance to maybe do something moderately useful and then die if it ever gets into CC. No thanks.

i rekon warpheads and good old zoggy are good for what there worth in points and money wise and they are very powerfull if put in a good unit.

I had another ork player turn my big mek KFF into a squid. Was not a bad thing for him but bad for me.

Worth pointing out that Zoggy is actually a bit of a fighter if he gets his power weapon (roll a 2 or 3 once in assault). He's t5 with a d6 attacks at init 4 and then his normal attacks, wounding on 2+. Only ws 4, but it's not inconceivable for him to kill 3 SM's, or mangle a fex.

except that he has, what, 3 wounds and a 6+ save? He doesn't get a chance to get power weapons until the second turn of CC (Ork weirdboyz roll for powers in the shooting phase, and will have already rolled before the first turn of assault), and he'll very rarely survive past the first turn against a good player.

I brought Ol' Z to a Necron game and turned The Nightbringer into a squig.

That player has since started playing Eldar.

You haven't really won a game of Warhammer 40K until you've beaten a Necron player so badly they ragequit to a different army.

I brought a Warphead to another game and he Zzapped chunks out of terrain for a few turns and then exploded. It was funny, but not terribly effective.

In serious games there just isnt any room for warpheads, KFF and Ghaz/ warboss are too important.

That said, warpheads can be a LOT of fun and surprising. One of my favorite games was with two warpheads in a fast ork army (truks with red paint, some koptas and some kommandos infilitrating against an opponent who deployed as far forward as he could. Turn one waagh meant most of the boyz were in assault on turn one


Sliggoth